Is there any hope for Israel?
noa.who
Posts: 130
We've been trying to get the band to come to Israel for a couple of times for the past five years or so.
We've tried petitions, mass e-mailing, talking directly to the band members and crew, anything we could think of, and always ended up getting a polite response, nicely explaining us that sometime in the future, maybe..
Well, after the show in Athens, which was packed with Israelis and had such a good vibe to it, I got my hope back.
Do you think there is chance for a show in Israel? why do you think we haven't got one yet?
I'm thinking about Ed and his strong political views. The band was here without Eddie during the Neil Young 95 tour, and since then, every time someone asked mike, Jeff or Stone about it, they said they will be more than happy to come back.
I'd really like to get your honest opinions..
Thanks,
Noa.
We've tried petitions, mass e-mailing, talking directly to the band members and crew, anything we could think of, and always ended up getting a polite response, nicely explaining us that sometime in the future, maybe..
Well, after the show in Athens, which was packed with Israelis and had such a good vibe to it, I got my hope back.
Do you think there is chance for a show in Israel? why do you think we haven't got one yet?
I'm thinking about Ed and his strong political views. The band was here without Eddie during the Neil Young 95 tour, and since then, every time someone asked mike, Jeff or Stone about it, they said they will be more than happy to come back.
I'd really like to get your honest opinions..
Thanks,
Noa.
Watch me make up my mind instead of my face
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
-Tom Waits-
Everybody should believe in something...I believe i'll have another drink - anonymous -
Ah that's just drunk talk, sweet beautiful drunk talk.
-Barney Gumble-
Besides that, there was a much anticipated RHCP show back in 2001, which was, again, cancelled.
hmm..almost the only ones getting the credit for actually showing up are the black eyed peas.
I think people were so excited to get a musical performance from abroad that even the ones who didn't like the BEP showed up and enjoyed themselves.
Oh, and we had sting too.
The greatest and biggest was Roger Waters' "the wall" , and from that one show I can assure you coming here isn't dangerous. it was a loving peaceful concert and almost everything went smooth.
Also, Metallica has come, Sting, Madonna, and whole bunch of other big name acts.
that's a good point.
I tend to think about that, and the one thing I have to say is that it's a shame that the citizens of a controversial country are punished for living there.
I know the situation in Israel is very complicated and upsetting to most if not all people, but you and everyone else must remember that most of the citizens here are not supporting every step if any step our government takes, being a little too young, I can't do much to change the situation around here. believe me - if i could i would.
I may be naive, but I believe that there are good people everywhere, and if the citizens will get the full support to fight for their own beliefs, the situation will slowly get better - and best of all, people will be heard.
boycotting our country will only do damage, because it's the people you're harming, not the government. the government doesn't give a fuck.
Bringing pearl jam to Israel, and with that to the entire middle-east, is more to me than getting a great rock show, it's almost like bringing hope and positive energy to most people I know.
I'd love to see a middle-eastern tour someday, I think It'll help allot of people all over this area, who are feeling very depressed and hopeless.
maybe it's just me...
I do hope that some day soon, PJ (and others) will play in your beautiful country. Personally, I would feel like Byrnzie said but, once again, I must reiterate it has nothing to do with the likes of people like you! Things will have to change...
You're one of the good ones. And my hand goes out to you. However, I think that you will agree that if any Western band, including Pearl Jam, were to play in Israel at the present time, then they would be perceived as supporting Israel as a whole - which means the Israeli government. If people like your self can one day bring about change and your country can find a way to live peaceably with your neighbours then it would open the doors for bands like Pearl Jam to play there. At the present time though, there are just too many issues involved for it to be feasible.
Edit: Then again...never say never!
You (in a general sense, not you in particular) are responsible for your government..as annoying as it is when you didn't actually vote for it (tell me about it..I'm not even allowed to here).
But you still can change thing by making people around you aware, by protesting, etc..
Boycotting is a way to get citizens of the boycotted country question why (they're boycotted).
I personally don't think it would be appropriate (not mentionning safe) at the moment for PJ to play Israel..things can (and hopefully will..look at Notrhern Ireland) change though.
Palestinians are locked in the territories (as townships), only allowed to get out to provide cheap labour and that can be stopped whenever the Israeli government feels like it. I don't see much difference with Apartheid in S.A.
difference is S.A. didn't bomb the townships or neighbouring countries.
oopss...maybe we should move this to the moving train
Its not similar to South Africa. The Palestinians are not citizens of Israel. They are Palestinian citizens. Thats like asking Canadians to vote in US elections.
Exactly!
I'm also from israel,and while i do not agree with everything the goverment here is doing.Especially on the palestinian issue. Boycotting Israel,is at best an idea that shows you to be a person which is either being misfead information or given a very one-sided,biased version of events.Its such a populist thing to say.What you see in a 2 minute piece on your news show is very far from showing you the whole picture.How much do you really know?
Why should israel be boycotted against? Obviously, whatever your opinions are in the israel-palestinian conflict are, you must admit that its a complex subject. There is no side that is 100% at wrong here. Its a historic confilct with many parts and problems that need to be solved.
Israel is acting within a reasonable range of responses. You should ask yourself - what would you have your country do under similar circumstances?
For all the americans out there, what your country is doing in Iraq is much worse in my opinion than whats happening in gaza for example.
Israel is the only democracy in the middle east.
Israel is the only country that doesnt hate your country.
Israel is the only country in which there are people who want (greatly) for pearl jam to come play. That should tell you something.
I'm sorry to speak so strongly but i feel that people who talk about boycotting israel are either ignorant or hypocritical.
G'night ,
Amir
P.S - i feel this thread will probably be moved soon.
P.P.S - Obviously i am also begging for PJ to play israel!!!! If they were here in 95 they can be here once again.
5/9/06 Lisbon
7/9/06 Madrid
30/06/10 Berlin
I'm not advocating a boycott of Israel in the same way as South Africa btw..but after the recent events (the bombing of Lebanon), I would be unconfortable if PJ were to go play there..unless they tour the whole region, which is unlikely.
Honestly, do you think that any Palestinian or Lebanese, or Syrian, or Egyptian who would want to come see them play in Israel would be allowed to?...thought not.
I thought Lebanon was a democracy.
and everyone around hates the US because of their support of Israel..and Iraq now.
I am aware of the complexity of the situation and the fact that there is no unilateral solution, but if you want to gloat about being a democracy, you have to upheld the higher standards that go with it....that goes for the US too...or other western government for that matter (including mine).
Agreed ... Israel is no innocent victim in all this. But its not gloating as much as it is stating a fact. If we really want to get down to business, PJ would do right to boycott the rest of the Middle East too, assuming that they were to make a such a judgment about Israel. PJ playing Iran? That psycho president of theirs would probably try to have Ed killed for his crazy-ass progressive and secular political views.
somehow I doubt it...so an American band! And yes he is a nutter.
No I obviously don't see PJ touring the region..but neither Israel..not at present anyway.
In any case, regardless of politics, they've missed plenty of countries, even continents (didn't they use to play Japan? ...since we were talking of South Africa...Russia's never been played either) and I suspect as they're getting families, the touring is going to become less extensive..unfortunally :(
You forgot about Lebanon and Turkey. Palestine too had democratic elections.
Anyway, I hope you get to see Pearl Jam in concert in Israel one day.
I feel though there are much more important priorities for that part of the world right now.
The minority of Palestinians still in Israel (state created in 1948 after which 85% of the palestinians were thrown out of their own country) ARE citizens of Israel, albeit a very discrimiated against and second-class minority....
But this is GTF and not MT....
I'll give you Roger Waters as an example.
when he came to preform here, it was known to everyone he's here to also speak his mind politically, not so much in favour of Israel.
Still, and here's the difference, he was allowed to talk freely about how he thinks things should get done around here, with no one shutting him up.
This was a proof to me, that preforming in Israel doesn't automatically mean supporting its actions, it can turn out to be something allot more positive than the image your portraying.
There is a more effective way to speak your mind about the situation in the middle east and to get people active a thinking, and to do it in a positive way by talking to the people, not boycotting them.
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Here's an article talking about his visit:
We don't need no occupation
Roger Waters, due to perform Thursday in Neve Shalom, scrawls 'tear down the wall' on Israel's security fence
Reuters Published: 06.22.06, 08:38
Pink Floyd front-man Roger Waters, who inspired the rock band's iconic album "The Wall," has scrawled "tear down the wall" on the concrete panels of Israel's security fence on Wednesday.
The barrier was the first stop on a visit to Israel and the Palestinian territories for Waters, who had been criticized by some fans for planning to play a concert in the Jewish state.
"It's a horrific edifice, this thing," Waters told reporters as he stood beside a section of the barrier in Bethlehem.
"I've seen pictures of it, I've heard a lot about it but without being here you can't imagine how extraordinarily oppressive it is and how sad it is to see these people coming through these little holes," he added. "It's craziness."
Waters added to graffiti with red spray paint and a marker pen.
Waters was lyricist, songwriter and singer for Pink Floyd, the former British rock group famous for "The Wall" and "The Dark Side of the Moon."
Israel has built almost half the fence, which has the stated aim of keeping suicide bombers out of its cities.
Condemned by Palestinians as a land grab, the fence has been branded illegal by the World Court because it cuts through occupied territory. Israel is rerouting some sections after a Supreme Court order to lessen Palestinian hardship.
From Tel Aviv to Neve Shalom
Waters is due to perform a concert at the Arab-Jewish coexistence village of Neve Shalom on Thursday as part of his world tour.
The concert was originally planned for a Tel Aviv sports stadium but, following criticism by fans in Britain, Waters changed the location to the peace village, where Israeli Jews and Arabs live in a joint community.
In 1990, Waters performed "The Wall" along the Berlin Wall that separated East and West Germany to celebrate reunification.
He told reporters he hoped Israel's fence would also be brought down one day.
"It may be a lot harder to get this one down, but eventually it must happen," Waters said.
Tell that to the Palestinians!
The thing is, sometimes outside criticism and boycott serves to strengthen the fearful negative aspects in Israeli people. When the common Israeli sees the following caption in the daily newspaper: "UK Universities Boycott Israeli Academia Relations", or when they try to book a hotel in Europe and are refused because of their nationality, he or she thinks: "Those people don't understand me. They don't understand why I feel I HAVE to have an army and deal with the Palestinians the way I do. I wish I had better solutions, but I don't. I wish I could let the Palestinians live as they please, but I can't. There are so many problems. You don't understand my problems."
In my opinion, it just adds to the general feelings of confusion, anger and frustration in Israel, and doesn't help the Palestinians one bit. I could also say that sometimes this foreign criticism is used cynically in the Israeli newspapers as proof to the citizens of Israel that they are misunderstood by the world, that the world is against them, and that they are on their own in solving their problems. They also feel repressed as if their natural right, their basic human right, to have a home somewhere and a place to live happily and be treated with respect and affirmation is denied of them. This doesn't help create dialogue and reconciliation between Israel and Palestine or anybody else (maybe it's not any foreigners fault that this is happening, but that's the situation). This we're-all-alone way of thinking is expressed in Israel's foreign policy, for example, in this recent war in Lebanon. Israel as a state did not believe the UN can prevent the Hizballha from accumulating weapons on the Isreali northen border. Does this problem justify a war and 1000 dead Lebanese? No. Is there a better solution? Of course, there has to be. I'm leaving this question open for suggestions.
It would be much more effective, instead, if you came up to the common Israeli and told them: "I believe you are not bad or evil, I believe that when you see an innocent Palestinian citizen killed in the news you are filled with remorse and pain (most Israelis do) and that you are a mere human being trying to deal with very tough problems. I understand that you are convinced war somehow solves problems between nations and that's why you join the army and fight for, what you think are, justified causes for your nation. I understand that you think punishing the Palestinians or the Lebanese will somehow make them smarter, or better, or give up their causes. I understand you think military force is effective. But, you see, you can't really solve problems this way. I will convince you that it's possible. I will show you how."
This is a universal probelm. It's not just Israel's problem. US also uses military force to solve problems between nations. UK also. Boycott is also some form of "force", not military, but it's a form of punishment. How punishing Israelis is going to make them braver people so that they would feel powerful enough to forsake war altogether? Most of the world's population believes war can solve certain problems. A lot of nations are aggressive because they are defensive (and not because they are primitive or stupid or inherently evil). Did it ever occur to you Iran wants a bomb because it wants to protect itself against a US invasion? Wouldn't you want a bomb if you were the common Iranian? And on and on it goes...
This is exactly why PJ is so important to me, and to the world in general. I hope I made you look at things in a different way.
Tamar
Tamar.. my old friend, I love yah girl. I understand you and I know what kind of person you are, you are such a beautiful, caring, intelligent woman. You are so passionate about life and Israel and I believe in you and your country and know that good things are coming.
Know that someone in Canada thinks and agrees with all you say.
your buddy, Joy.
peace and love girl.
So beautifully phrased no a!
And to all boycotters around here - first, I do not believe that this is the real interest behind the fact the band is not playing the region. Second and most importantly - Music, Culture, Art - they shouldn't be boycotted or banned or reserved only for the convinced. I mean, maybe next, you believe republicans shouldn't be allowed through the gates to a PJ show in the US?
Everyone open enough should be able to attend and experience such amazing music and important messages this incredible band has to offer. They have significant words to say these days, and even in my country there are many people who would like to listen, people of all religions, colors and ideals. None of you are spokesmen for the band, and withholding art and progress from areas of the world – isn't a solution either.
https://www.facebook.com/Bring.Pearl.Jam.To.Israel
Thanks for the support, Joy, girlfriend. We know we agree, eh? Love you too, funny girl. Thinking of you always.
Tamar
Great! I'm glad we agree. I can guarentee without ever talking to any of the band members that they don't want to be affiliated with the Israeli government or any military aggression on its part. And they can play Israel while making this perfectly clear. I hope they will some day because they have a lot to say in matters that specifically relate to us as a country.
Tamar
Its too risky at this point in time.