if he speaks of race in the contexts of one's ethnicity, and says that has no basis in scientific fact, I call bullshit. some people are black. some people are white. some people are asian. etc etc. that is irrefutable. but if he speaks of race in the context of cultural behaviours, I agree.
if race has no basis in fact, then why isn't my daughter black?
What is "black"?? Define it please.
I think we all know what the definition is without me being baited into it.
if he speaks of race in the contexts of one's ethnicity, and says that has no basis in scientific fact, I call bullshit. some people are black. some people are white. some people are asian. etc etc. that is irrefutable. but if he speaks of race in the context of cultural behaviours, I agree.
if race has no basis in fact, then why isn't my daughter black?
What is "black"?? Define it please.
I think we all know what the definition is without me being baited into it.
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
"Opportunism" - fantastic application to this woman and her actions.
Callen, do you mean Navin?
I'm not bothered by perceptions (though I think this one and others are a ways from reality), it's her specific actions and her dishonesty. Even if she did some good in the end, does that excuse being deceitful?
"Opportunism" - fantastic application to this woman and her actions.
Callen, do you mean Navin?
I'm not bothered by perceptions (though I think this one and others are a ways from reality), it's her specific actions and her dishonesty. Even if she did some good in the end, does that excuse being deceitful?
I agree! She could have been saying everything she is saying now all along, but she deceived people on purpose.
if he speaks of race in the contexts of one's ethnicity, and says that has no basis in scientific fact, I call bullshit. some people are black. some people are white. some people are asian. etc etc. that is irrefutable. but if he speaks of race in the context of cultural behaviours, I agree.
if race has no basis in fact, then why isn't my daughter black?
What is "black"?? Define it please.
I think we all know what the definition is without me being baited into it.
Dark skin? How dark?
If you feel baited it's because you know you don't have a viable answer.
if he speaks of race in the contexts of one's ethnicity, and says that has no basis in scientific fact, I call bullshit. some people are black. some people are white. some people are asian. etc etc. that is irrefutable. but if he speaks of race in the context of cultural behaviours, I agree.
if race has no basis in fact, then why isn't my daughter black?
Perhaps she didn't inherit a lot of melanin?
I think Pitts is referring to the fact that genetically there isn't a difference between what we consider races. Sure, there are differences in features, which we are passed down from our parents, their parents, etc. Or we inherit some health conditions, like predisposition to some illnesses or longevity. But genetically, we're all humans.
"The stars are all connected to the brain."
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,125
and on and on and on. The line keeps going well beyond the few hundred years we have written records for. Can anybody really be sure they are all white or all black?
JV I would agree with this in that just this year around my birthday my mother revealed to me I'm part Irish. I was like "WHAT" and you are just telling me this. I always wondered why my great grandmother on my fathers side was so light skinned. That side of my family were Catholics which had an extension back to Ireland. No wonder I love St. Patrick's Day and one of my names is Saint.
I have no issue with her being the head of an NAACP chapter. Many whites (it feel odd saying white, who is really actually white OR black) have been involved with that organization. Many have moved it forward exponentially in getting voting rights etc. my only issue was that she was deceitful in doing so, when she probably didn't have to if she REALLY wanted to move the organization forward. She appears to have done this for selfish reasons, anybody remember the movie Soulman or the book Black Like Me? One of the best books I had to read in HS.
PEACE
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
if he speaks of race in the contexts of one's ethnicity, and says that has no basis in scientific fact, I call bullshit. some people are black. some people are white. some people are asian. etc etc. that is irrefutable. but if he speaks of race in the context of cultural behaviours, I agree.
if race has no basis in fact, then why isn't my daughter black?
What is "black"?? Define it please.
I think we all know what the definition is without me being baited into it.
Dark skin? How dark?
If you feel baited it's because you know you don't have a viable answer.
not true at all. it's because no matter what I say (African, dark skin, etc), you will have a grey-area retort (not all africans are black, how dark? as you stated above).
I am white. I know I am white. how do I define it? NATURAL APPEARANCE. this woman made her face darker on purpose to deceive people. that's the crux of the matter.
I don't give a shit if my buddy (also white) hangs out with all black people, loves hip hop, married black, has never dated white. that's his choice and his lifestyle. he would probably say he identifies more with "black culture" than "white culture". but he doesn't deceive people into believing he is something he's not. that's all.
if he speaks of race in the contexts of one's ethnicity, and says that has no basis in scientific fact, I call bullshit. some people are black. some people are white. some people are asian. etc etc. that is irrefutable. but if he speaks of race in the context of cultural behaviours, I agree.
if race has no basis in fact, then why isn't my daughter black?
What is "black"?? Define it please.
I think we all know what the definition is without me being baited into it.
Dark skin? How dark?
If you feel baited it's because you know you don't have a viable answer.
and baiting has nothing to do with the potential answer. it's how the questions are framed.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,125
if he speaks of race in the contexts of one's ethnicity, and says that has no basis in scientific fact, I call bullshit. some people are black. some people are white. some people are asian. etc etc. that is irrefutable. but if he speaks of race in the context of cultural behaviours, I agree.
if race has no basis in fact, then why isn't my daughter black?
What is "black"?? Define it please.
I think we all know what the definition is without me being baited into it.
Dark skin? How dark?
If you feel baited it's because you know you don't have a viable answer.
not true at all. it's because no matter what I say (African, dark skin, etc), you will have a grey-area retort (not all africans are black, how dark? as you stated above).
I am white. I know I am white. how do I define it? NATURAL APPEARANCE. this woman made her face darker on purpose to deceive people. that's the crux of the matter.
I don't give a shit if my buddy (also white) hangs out with all black people, loves hip hop, married black, has never dated white. that's his choice and his lifestyle. he would probably say he identifies more with "black culture" than "white culture". but he doesn't deceive people into believing he is something he's not. that's all.
I agree, I once had client ask me " are you from Africa" ? I said no, I've never been there but that's on my bucket list for North Africa and the sands of the Sahara.
Peace
Post edited by g under p on
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I've never identified with a label. How limiting that must be.
I don't think being labelled as white is limiting. it's just the truth of the colour of my skin. I am not claiming to "act white", whatever that even means.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,125
I'm curious, based our writings and posting here on the Train and elsewhere can ANY of us tell what race one is based on those posting? Better yet does it even matter?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I'm curious, based our writings and posting here on the Train and elsewhere can ANY of us tell what race one is based on those posting? Better yet does it even matter?
Peace
I think race is very difficult to tell. Sex I think is a little easier but sometimes still not possible.
Does it matter? I don't know. I think it is informative, and if you buy into the idea of this place as an online community (which I do) then I think it can help paint a picture of who we all are. Beyond that I don't know how important it is.
I'm curious, based our writings and posting here on the Train and elsewhere can ANY of us tell what race one is based on those posting? Better yet does it even matter?
Peace
Good point.
As soon as one identifies themselves as a "This", they will defend that group even if wrong. This is engrained in our human psyche.
Why 911 had Americans come together against outside threat then when that waned went back to race and other piddly reasons.
We are a simple deed animal. Can't break away. Or most anyway.
I'm curious, based our writings and posting here on the Train and elsewhere can ANY of us tell what race one is based on those posting? Better yet does it even matter?
Peace
nope. and I think that speaks to my point. many even get gender incorrect on the forum.
the context of my end of the discussion is on deception of appearance only. how she identifies in her own head is her own business.
if he speaks of race in the contexts of one's ethnicity, and says that has no basis in scientific fact, I call bullshit. some people are black. some people are white. some people are asian. etc etc. that is irrefutable. but if he speaks of race in the context of cultural behaviours, I agree.
if race has no basis in fact, then why isn't my daughter black?
What is "black"?? Define it please.
I think we all know what the definition is without me being baited into it.
Dark skin? How dark?
If you feel baited it's because you know you don't have a viable answer.
not true at all. it's because no matter what I say (African, dark skin, etc), you will have a grey-area retort (not all africans are black, how dark? as you stated above).
I am white. I know I am white. how do I define it? NATURAL APPEARANCE. this woman made her face darker on purpose to deceive people. that's the crux of the matter.
I don't give a shit if my buddy (also white) hangs out with all black people, loves hip hop, married black, has never dated white. that's his choice and his lifestyle. he would probably say he identifies more with "black culture" than "white culture". but he doesn't deceive people into believing he is something he's not. that's all.
I definitely agree that she was deliberately deceptive and shame on her for that!
Race is a social construct that dates back to scientific views of the 19th century. We classify others based on skin color and hair form but we are in fact only one biological species, homo sapiens, with skin, hair, etc. differences that are geographical in nature.
One of my favorite documentaries to show is PBS "Race the Power of Illusion". It is a fantastic series that delves into this very question. But here is brief excerpt from a scholarly article examining this very question.
"Adaptive traits, such as skin color, have frequently been used to define races in humans, but such adaptive traits reflect the underlying environmental factor to which they are adaptive and not overall genetic differentiation, and different adaptive traits define discordant groups. There are no objective criteria for choosing one adaptive trait over another to define race. As a consequence, adaptive traits do not define races in humans."
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Race is a social construct that dates back to scientific views of the 19th century. We classify others based on skin color and hair form but we are in fact only one biological species, homo sapiens, with skin, hair, etc. differences that are geographical in nature.
One of my favorite documentaries to show is PBS "Race the Power of Illusion". It is a fantastic series that delves into this very question. But here is brief excerpt from a scholarly article examining this very question.
"Adaptive traits, such as skin color, have frequently been used to define races in humans, but such adaptive traits reflect the underlying environmental factor to which they are adaptive and not overall genetic differentiation, and different adaptive traits define discordant groups. There are no objective criteria for choosing one adaptive trait over another to define race. As a consequence, adaptive traits do not define races in humans."
Yes. We could have just as easily, and with as much (or more) scientific validity, divided people into brunette, blonde and red-headed races, or blue eyed, brown eyed, and hazel eyed races. Maybe short and tall races? As humans we seem to be fixated on skin colour but it is an amazingly minor aspect of genetic makeup. Skin colour isn't even a discrete, binary or trinary trait; instead, skin colours can fall all along a huge spectrum. A "black" person can have albinism - are they still "black"?; if so, then skin colour alone doesn't make you "black". The question "what's black?" is a valid one.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
of course we are one species. no one is claiming otherwise. differences within our own species predate social constructs of the 19th century. people in the 17th century, for instance, knew there was a difference in skin colour from a person in northern canada than from africa. saying someone is black or brown or white in skin colour is not a social construct, it is a factual observation based on our visual perception.
racISM is a social construct. factual classification based on physical characteristics is not the definition of a social construct.
classifying someone as a particular race is merely humanity's way of describing their natural world.
She is an opportunist and pathological liar who is trying to veer attention away from these ethical and mental issues by focusing this debacle as a race and identity issue. She's manipulating the general public and being successful at doing so.
Race is a social construct that dates back to scientific views of the 19th century. We classify others based on skin color and hair form but we are in fact only one biological species, homo sapiens, with skin, hair, etc. differences that are geographical in nature.
One of my favorite documentaries to show is PBS "Race the Power of Illusion". It is a fantastic series that delves into this very question. But here is brief excerpt from a scholarly article examining this very question.
"Adaptive traits, such as skin color, have frequently been used to define races in humans, but such adaptive traits reflect the underlying environmental factor to which they are adaptive and not overall genetic differentiation, and different adaptive traits define discordant groups. There are no objective criteria for choosing one adaptive trait over another to define race. As a consequence, adaptive traits do not define races in humans."
Yes. We could have just as easily, and with as much (or more) scientific validity, divided people into brunette, blonde and red-headed races, or blue eyed, brown eyed, and hazel eyed races. Maybe short and tall races? As humans we seem to be fixated on skin colour but it is an amazingly minor aspect of genetic makeup. Skin colour isn't even a discrete, binary or trinary trait; instead, skin colours can fall all along a huge spectrum. A "black" person can have albinism - are they still "black"?; if so, then skin colour alone doesn't make you "black". The question "what's black?" is a valid one.
the idea behind how one is identified is obviously not black and white. pun intended.
When the human genome was first fully mapped in 2000, Bill Clinton, Craig Venter, and Francis Collins took the stage and pronounced that "The concept of race has no genetic or scientific basis." Great words spoken with great intentions. But what do they really mean, and where do they leave us? Our genes are nearly all the same, but that hasn't made race meaningless, or wiped out our evolving conversation about it.
and on and on and on. The line keeps going well beyond the few hundred years we have written records for. Can anybody really be sure they are all white or all black?
Wayne Joseph was a victim of the one drop rule that said if you have one drop of black blood meaning black ancestors in your then you are black. Wayne was born in Louisiana and he is creole. All of his life he thought he was black. Wayne had a phenotype that in his eyes, and in the eyes of black and white Americans rendered him black. Thus going on the assumption that he was black he lived the life of a black man. He internalized the African American experience, dealt with all of the good and bad situations and circumstances that go along with being an black man in America.
From the time of his childhood he had been raised black, his phenotype (physical appearance) looked black to him — and his neighborhoods. So there was no reason to think of himself as non black.
Until He had an DNA test done on him. The test came back 57% indo European, 39% Native American, 4% east Asian, and 0% black African. Geneticist believe that about 5% of the African American population don’t have any DNA markers from sub Saharan Africa meaning they don’t have any black genes. But even though they don’t have any DNA markers from sub Sahara Africa they still call themselves black because that is how they have been raised, they think they have black ancestry in their genes.
of course we are one species. no one is claiming otherwise. differences within our own species predate social constructs of the 19th century. people in the 17th century, for instance, knew there was a difference in skin colour from a person in northern canada than from africa. saying someone is black or brown or white in skin colour is not a social construct, it is a factual observation based on our visual perception.
racISM is a social construct. factual classification based on physical characteristics is not the definition of a social construct.
classifying someone as a particular race is merely humanity's way of describing their natural world.
I think the point is that it is a factual observation that really should never have been freighted with such meaning. We gave one observable physical characteristic preeminence. Why did we choose that one? - that is the social construct.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
of course we are one species. no one is claiming otherwise. differences within our own species predate social constructs of the 19th century. people in the 17th century, for instance, knew there was a difference in skin colour from a person in northern canada than from africa. saying someone is black or brown or white in skin colour is not a social construct, it is a factual observation based on our visual perception.
racISM is a social construct. factual classification based on physical characteristics is not the definition of a social construct.
classifying someone as a particular race is merely humanity's way of describing their natural world.
Then why skin color? Why did we notice that one minor variance over other differences? Racism develops because of this difference but race is a social construct. It is an historical phenomenon not a biological difference. If we look at all of humanity our genetic differences are minute; we are more similar than dissimilar. This division into racial classifications developed as a way to exert dominance over particular groups. If race was biological then we could, today, with our modern scientific methods, determine traits that belong only to one group over another.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I'm sorry, but I honestly can't understand how anyone can defend this whack job. She used make up to color her skin black, wore wigs, and "pretended" to be black. She has white parents, pics of her in her "real" skin color and she sued the university because of the white color of her skin. This woman is shot, brains fried and a total looney. Let's be real here. And people gave Michael Jackson shit for trying to "color" his skin white.
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www.headstonesband.com
Think one can identify as another race and I have no problem with it.
Hell even Nathan thought he was black and he did eventually get his rhythm.
Wonder why this bothers so many.
Callen, do you mean Navin?
I'm not bothered by perceptions (though I think this one and others are a ways from reality), it's her specific actions and her dishonesty. Even if she did some good in the end, does that excuse being deceitful?
How dark?
If you feel baited it's because you know you don't have a viable answer.
I think Pitts is referring to the fact that genetically there isn't a difference between what we consider races. Sure, there are differences in features, which we are passed down from our parents, their parents, etc. Or we inherit some health conditions, like predisposition to some illnesses or longevity. But genetically, we're all humans.
I have no issue with her being the head of an NAACP chapter. Many whites (it feel odd saying white, who is really actually white OR black) have been involved with that organization. Many have moved it forward exponentially in getting voting rights etc. my only issue was that she was deceitful in doing so, when she probably didn't have to if she REALLY wanted to move the organization forward. She appears to have done this for selfish reasons, anybody remember the movie Soulman or the book Black Like Me? One of the best books I had to read in HS.
PEACE
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I am white. I know I am white. how do I define it? NATURAL APPEARANCE. this woman made her face darker on purpose to deceive people. that's the crux of the matter.
I don't give a shit if my buddy (also white) hangs out with all black people, loves hip hop, married black, has never dated white. that's his choice and his lifestyle. he would probably say he identifies more with "black culture" than "white culture". but he doesn't deceive people into believing he is something he's not. that's all.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
www.headstonesband.com
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Does it matter? I don't know. I think it is informative, and if you buy into the idea of this place as an online community (which I do) then I think it can help paint a picture of who we all are. Beyond that I don't know how important it is.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
As soon as one identifies themselves as a "This", they will defend that group even if wrong. This is engrained in our human psyche.
Why 911 had Americans come together against outside threat then when that waned went back to race and other piddly reasons.
We are a simple deed animal. Can't break away. Or most anyway.
And the machine capitalizes on this.
the context of my end of the discussion is on deception of appearance only. how she identifies in her own head is her own business.
www.headstonesband.com
One of my favorite documentaries to show is PBS "Race the Power of Illusion". It is a fantastic series that delves into this very question. But here is brief excerpt from a scholarly article examining this very question.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23684745
"Adaptive traits, such as skin color, have frequently been used to define races in humans, but such adaptive traits reflect the underlying environmental factor to which they are adaptive and not overall genetic differentiation, and different adaptive traits define discordant groups. There are no objective criteria for choosing one adaptive trait over another to define race. As a consequence, adaptive traits do not define races in humans."
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
racISM is a social construct. factual classification based on physical characteristics is not the definition of a social construct.
classifying someone as a particular race is merely humanity's way of describing their natural world.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
http://www.radiolab.org/story/91653-race/
When the human genome was first fully mapped in 2000, Bill Clinton, Craig Venter, and Francis Collins took the stage and pronounced that "The concept of race has no genetic or scientific basis." Great words spoken with great intentions. But what do they really mean, and where do they leave us? Our genes are nearly all the same, but that hasn't made race meaningless, or wiped out our evolving conversation about it.
Wayne Joseph was a victim of the one drop rule that said if you have one drop of black blood meaning black ancestors in your then you are black. Wayne was born in Louisiana and he is creole. All of his life he thought he was black. Wayne had a phenotype that in his eyes, and in the eyes of black and white Americans rendered him black. Thus going on the assumption that he was black he lived the life of a black man. He internalized the African American experience, dealt with all of the good and bad situations and circumstances that go along with being an black man in America.
From the time of his childhood he had been raised black, his phenotype (physical appearance) looked black to him — and his neighborhoods. So there was no reason to think of himself as non black.
Until He had an DNA test done on him. The test came back 57% indo European, 39% Native American, 4% east Asian, and 0% black African. Geneticist believe that about 5% of the African American population don’t have any DNA markers from sub Saharan Africa meaning they don’t have any black genes. But even though they don’t have any DNA markers from sub Sahara Africa they still call themselves black because that is how they have been raised, they think they have black ancestry in their genes.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE