A dozen shot in Flint

JimmyV

FoxyRedLa said:

Just a couple years ago an 87 year old women was raped outside her home during the day.

My god.

Godfather.

I can't bring up the story for some reason. but lets see...25 killings over the weekend uh, well were they drug related ? were they victims of home break in's ? or maybe a car jacking or two...(here's your NRA chime in Gimmi) don't blame the actions of ill minded dirt bags on a gun, there are many things that cause death that are legal and no so legal like a harmless joint or a bump of cook on the weekend, the chances of somebody dieing because of that weed or that coke are probably 50/50...espically the coke,blaming a gun for murder is crazy in my opinion.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon

Godfather. said:

I can't bring up the story for some reason. but lets see...25 killings over the weekend uh, well were they drug related ? were they victims of home break in's ? or maybe a car jacking or two...(here's your NRA chime in Gimmi) don't blame the actions of ill minded dirt bags on a gun, there are many things that cause death that are legal and no so legal like a harmless joint or a bump of cook on the weekend, the chances of somebody dieing because of that weed or that coke are probably 50/50...espically the coke,blaming a gun for murder is crazy in my opinion.

Godfather.

no one is blaming the gun for the murder. we're saying that more guns not only don't help (which is what the NRA stands for-"a gun for every good guy to take down the bad ones"), they exacerbate the problem. make it easier to kill, and more will. simple as that.

HughFreakingDillon

JimmyV said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Just a couple years ago an 87 year old women was raped outside her home during the day.

My god.

that shit just turns my stomach. castrate the piece of shit.

rr165892

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Just a couple years ago an 87 year old women was raped outside her home during the day.

My god.

that shit just turns my stomach. castrate the piece of shit.

Ah,a punishment to fit the crime.I like it.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

I can't bring up the story for some reason. but lets see...25 killings over the weekend uh, well were they drug related ? were they victims of home break in's ? or maybe a car jacking or two...(here's your NRA chime in Gimmi) don't blame the actions of ill minded dirt bags on a gun, there are many things that cause death that are legal and no so legal like a harmless joint or a bump of cook on the weekend, the chances of somebody dieing because of that weed or that coke are probably 50/50...espically the coke,blaming a gun for murder is crazy in my opinion.

Godfather.

no one is blaming the gun for the murder. we're saying that more guns not only don't help (which is what the NRA stands for-"a gun for every good guy to take down the bad ones"), they exacerbate the problem. make it easier to kill, and more will. simple as that.

many things make it easier to kill..but a gun would be a first choice but still I don't think good honest gun owners should be the ones paying for the actions of a bunch of dirt bags who by law should not even own or have a gun..it's kinda like the riots in Baltimore I just read that the tax payers will be footing the bill for the damage done to the city, the hard working, tax paying people always get the shaft and the fucking loosers that do this shit still get thier w.f checks.

Godfather.

badbrains

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

I can't bring up the story for some reason. but lets see...25 killings over the weekend uh, well were they drug related ? were they victims of home break in's ? or maybe a car jacking or two...(here's your NRA chime in Gimmi) don't blame the actions of ill minded dirt bags on a gun, there are many things that cause death that are legal and no so legal like a harmless joint or a bump of cook on the weekend, the chances of somebody dieing because of that weed or that coke are probably 50/50...espically the coke,blaming a gun for murder is crazy in my opinion.

Godfather.

no one is blaming the gun for the murder. we're saying that more guns not only don't help (which is what the NRA stands for-"a gun for every good guy to take down the bad ones"), they exacerbate the problem. make it easier to kill, and more will. simple as that.

many things make it easier to kill..but a gun would be a first choice but still I don't think good honest gun owners should be the ones paying for the actions of a bunch of dirt bags who by law should not even own or have a gun..it's kinda like the riots in Baltimore I just read that the tax payers will be footing the bill for the damage done to the city, the hard working, tax paying people always get the shaft and the fucking loosers that do this shit still get thier w.f checks.

Godfather.

I rarely agree with Gf, but he's got some good points here. Taxpayers always get the shaft with no Vaseline

rr165892

badbrains said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

I can't bring up the story for some reason. but lets see...25 killings over the weekend uh, well were they drug related ? were they victims of home break in's ? or maybe a car jacking or two...(here's your NRA chime in Gimmi) don't blame the actions of ill minded dirt bags on a gun, there are many things that cause death that are legal and no so legal like a harmless joint or a bump of cook on the weekend, the chances of somebody dieing because of that weed or that coke are probably 50/50...espically the coke,blaming a gun for murder is crazy in my opinion.

Godfather.

no one is blaming the gun for the murder. we're saying that more guns not only don't help (which is what the NRA stands for-"a gun for every good guy to take down the bad ones"), they exacerbate the problem. make it easier to kill, and more will. simple as that.

many things make it easier to kill..but a gun would be a first choice but still I don't think good honest gun owners should be the ones paying for the actions of a bunch of dirt bags who by law should not even own or have a gun..it's kinda like the riots in Baltimore I just read that the tax payers will be footing the bill for the damage done to the city, the hard working, tax paying people always get the shaft and the fucking loosers that do this shit still get thier w.f checks.

Godfather.

I rarely agree with Gf, but he's got some good points here. Taxpayers always get the shaft with no Vaseline

Careful BB,Another comment like that,and we will be Making room for you on the team CC bandwagon.

HughFreakingDillon

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

I can't bring up the story for some reason. but lets see...25 killings over the weekend uh, well were they drug related ? were they victims of home break in's ? or maybe a car jacking or two...(here's your NRA chime in Gimmi) don't blame the actions of ill minded dirt bags on a gun, there are many things that cause death that are legal and no so legal like a harmless joint or a bump of cook on the weekend, the chances of somebody dieing because of that weed or that coke are probably 50/50...espically the coke,blaming a gun for murder is crazy in my opinion.

Godfather.

no one is blaming the gun for the murder. we're saying that more guns not only don't help (which is what the NRA stands for-"a gun for every good guy to take down the bad ones"), they exacerbate the problem. make it easier to kill, and more will. simple as that.

many things make it easier to kill..but a gun would be a first choice but still I don't think good honest gun owners should be the ones paying for the actions of a bunch of dirt bags who by law should not even own or have a gun..it's kinda like the riots in Baltimore I just read that the tax payers will be footing the bill for the damage done to the city, the hard working, tax paying people always get the shaft and the fucking loosers that do this shit still get thier w.f checks.

Godfather.

Unfortunately good honest responsible people have to pay the price in all facets of democratic free society because we have to make laws that govern the lowest common denominator.
speed limits, drug use, alcohol laws, child endangerment laws, I could go on. I am a resonsible parent who knows when his kid is mature and responsible enough to go to the park alone, for example. But because fuckhead down the street doesnt give a shit what her kid does and hasnt taught her a damn thing about the possible dangers of being out on her own, my kid cant enjoy the freedom she deserves and go to the park on her own so we can make sure fuckhead jr doesn't get diddled by the creep in the park.

I smoke weed. I am not an addict. I dont do it in front of my kids. But because the loser down the street cant control himself and has lost his job and beats his wife, and happens to also be a pot smoker, the conservative government blames weed and i have to buy it illegally.

The examples are endless.

muskydan

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

I can't bring up the story for some reason. but lets see...25 killings over the weekend uh, well were they drug related ? were they victims of home break in's ? or maybe a car jacking or two...(here's your NRA chime in Gimmi) don't blame the actions of ill minded dirt bags on a gun, there are many things that cause death that are legal and no so legal like a harmless joint or a bump of cook on the weekend, the chances of somebody dieing because of that weed or that coke are probably 50/50...espically the coke,blaming a gun for murder is crazy in my opinion.

Godfather.

no one is blaming the gun for the murder. we're saying that more guns not only don't help (which is what the NRA stands for-"a gun for every good guy to take down the bad ones"), they exacerbate the problem. make it easier to kill, and more will. simple as that.

many things make it easier to kill..but a gun would be a first choice but still I don't think good honest gun owners should be the ones paying for the actions of a bunch of dirt bags who by law should not even own or have a gun..it's kinda like the riots in Baltimore I just read that the tax payers will be footing the bill for the damage done to the city, the hard working, tax paying people always get the shaft and the fucking loosers that do this shit still get thier w.f checks.

Godfather.

Unfortunately good honest responsible people have to pay the price in all facets of democratic free society because we have to make laws that govern the lowest common denominator.
speed limits, drug use, alcohol laws, child endangerment laws, I could go on. I am a resonsible parent who knows when his kid is mature and responsible enough to go to the park alone, for example. But because fuckhead down the street doesnt give a shit what her kid does and hasnt taught her a damn thing about the possible dangers of being out on her own, my kid cant enjoy the freedom she deserves and go to the park on her own so we can make sure fuckhead jr doesn't get diddled by the creep in the park.

I smoke weed. I am not an addict. I dont do it in front of my kids. But because the loser down the street cant control himself and has lost his job and beats his wife, and happens to also be a pot smoker, the conservative government blames weed and i have to buy it illegally.

The examples are endless.

I like the way you think.

Halifax2TheMax

Worth thinking about:

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

"Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members".
~Pearl S. Buck

"The measure of a society is found in how they treat their weakest and most helpless citizens. As Americans, we are blessed with circumstances that protect our human rights and our religious freedom, but for many people around the world, deprivation and persecution have become a way of life."
~James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.

Me thinks that localities that try to practice this, usually, not confirmed, have less crime. Before you jump down my throat, I haven't "researched it" but it makes sense to me (on the surface).

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Halifax2TheMax said:

Worth thinking about:

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

"Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members".
~Pearl S. Buck

"The measure of a society is found in how they treat their weakest and most helpless citizens. As Americans, we are blessed with circumstances that protect our human rights and our religious freedom, but for many people around the world, deprivation and persecution have become a way of life."
~James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.

Me thinks that localities that try to practice this, usually, not confirmed, have less crime. Before you jump down my throat, I haven't "researched it" but it makes sense to me (on the surface).

Sure... but why are you offering these?

Exactly what is it you are trying to say given the context of this thread and its most recent turn in discussion?

Halifax2TheMax

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Worth thinking about:

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

"Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members".
~Pearl S. Buck

"The measure of a society is found in how they treat their weakest and most helpless citizens. As Americans, we are blessed with circumstances that protect our human rights and our religious freedom, but for many people around the world, deprivation and persecution have become a way of life."
~James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.

Me thinks that localities that try to practice this, usually, not confirmed, have less crime. Before you jump down my throat, I haven't "researched it" but it makes sense to me (on the surface).

Sure... but why are you offering these?

Exactly what is it you are trying to say given the context of this thread and its most recent turn in discussion?

Halifax2TheMax

Halifax2TheMax said:

Worth thinking about:

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

"Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members".
~Pearl S. Buck

"The measure of a society is found in how they treat their weakest and most helpless citizens. As Americans, we are blessed with circumstances that protect our human rights and our religious freedom, but for many people around the world, deprivation and persecution have become a way of life."
~James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.

Me thinks that localities that try to practice this, usually, not confirmed, have less crime. Before you jump down my throat, I haven't "researched it" but it makes sense to me (on the surface).

Sorry, my first quote attempt screwed up.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Halifax2TheMax said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Worth thinking about:

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

"Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members".
~Pearl S. Buck

"The measure of a society is found in how they treat their weakest and most helpless citizens. As Americans, we are blessed with circumstances that protect our human rights and our religious freedom, but for many people around the world, deprivation and persecution have become a way of life."
~James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.

Me thinks that localities that try to practice this, usually, not confirmed, have less crime. Before you jump down my throat, I haven't "researched it" but it makes sense to me (on the surface).

Sorry, my first quote attempt screwed up.

I'm not sure how I missed that part. Chalk it up to clumsiness. Sorry.

Halifax2TheMax

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Worth thinking about:

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

"Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members".
~Pearl S. Buck

"The measure of a society is found in how they treat their weakest and most helpless citizens. As Americans, we are blessed with circumstances that protect our human rights and our religious freedom, but for many people around the world, deprivation and persecution have become a way of life."
~James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr.

Me thinks that localities that try to practice this, usually, not confirmed, have less crime. Before you jump down my throat, I haven't "researched it" but it makes sense to me (on the surface).

Sorry, my first quote attempt screwed up.

I'm not sure how I missed that part. Chalk it up to clumsiness. Sorry.

No problem. It happens to me as well.

oftenreading

muskydan said:

oftenreading said:

muskydan said:

brianlux said:

Sad that these kinds of stories have become more common place. At least that is how I see it. I hear all the time how crime is "down" in America and we only think it is worse because information is spread so quickly. So am I experiencing confirmation bias when I say I don't believe violent crime is down or am I just to damn old and cynical or is this country in denial?

Now that's using your Knoggin.....don't ever believe that BS that crime is down. Reclassifying crime is how big cities manipulate numbers. Look up the Ultimate crime depressor COM STAT that many big cities use to hide crime. The only problem is they have not figured out a way to hide Dead Bodies, but they will eventually...

They don't need to hide dead bodies; those numbers are down as well. You're right to bring it up; the number of murders is a good proxy for crime rates since most murders get recorded whereas the data can be muddy on lesser crimes.

In the US as a whole in 2013, the number of murders was 14, 196. This is down 4.4% from 2012, 7.8% from 2009 and 12.1% from 2001. Note that this is numbers, not rates; when counted as rates per 100,000, which corrects for rising total population, the percentage decreases are even higher - down 5.1% from 2012, 10.5% from 2009 and 18.3% from 2001.

The current murder rate is about 4.5 per 100,000 per year in the US as a whole (of course, with big regional variation), whereas in 1990 it hit a peak at around 10 per 100,000, higher than it had been for many decades. 'Round about 1800 the murder rate was about 20 per 100,000, while around 1700 the murder rate was well over 30 per 100,000. Those were dangerous times.

You wana know why murders are down so significantly from 20 years ago ? The medical field really has gotten superb at patching up people. Technology in the ER and equipment the first responders use one scene has made a tremedous impact in saving lives of people shot...so many of them can be shot again. The number that really should be looked at is actual shootings which can and is manipulated. If it's not reported, it did not happen. Smoke and mirrors kids.

That's an interesting point, Dan, and one I hadn't considered - is the murder rate lower due to confounding factors such as better trauma care? So I looked into that but the data doesn't support that theory either. Not only is the murder rate down, but the rate of violent crime overall is down. Going with your theory, I looked at the rates of aggravated assault since agg assault would seem to be the most likely charge in the scenario of someone seriously assaulted but then successfully treated in hospital. These data fit the general pattern, with highs in the 70s-80s which then drop in the 90s and continue dropping. There's more data than people probably want to read but, for a taste of it, rates per 100,000 of agg assault in 1960 were 86.1, in 1989 were 383.4, and in 2013 were 229.1.

Dan, if you have different data please post it. In which way do you think crime data is being manipulated?

Edit - after a bit more searching I found another article that looks specifically at the issue of data on nonfatal shootings in the US and found that the data are poor and inconsistent; due in part, unfortunately, to the strong pressure from some lobby groups and a certain political party to disallow research on gun violence. All of the data sets are thus limited; some sets show a decline in gunshot wounds along with the decline in reported violent crime, while others show an increase. Hospital are required to report gunshot wounds but it doesn't look like that data is being used in an effective way. It also noted that the theory that better medical care is improving survival may not be true - some individual hospitals have studied their outcome data and have found that the injuries people are presenting with may be getting more and more serious (more brain and spinal injuries, etc), and mortality rates are increasing again.

rgambs

oftenreading said:

muskydan said:

oftenreading said:

muskydan said:

brianlux said:

Sad that these kinds of stories have become more common place. At least that is how I see it. I hear all the time how crime is "down" in America and we only think it is worse because information is spread so quickly. So am I experiencing confirmation bias when I say I don't believe violent crime is down or am I just to damn old and cynical or is this country in denial?

Now that's using your Knoggin.....don't ever believe that BS that crime is down. Reclassifying crime is how big cities manipulate numbers. Look up the Ultimate crime depressor COM STAT that many big cities use to hide crime. The only problem is they have not figured out a way to hide Dead Bodies, but they will eventually...

They don't need to hide dead bodies; those numbers are down as well. You're right to bring it up; the number of murders is a good proxy for crime rates since most murders get recorded whereas the data can be muddy on lesser crimes.

In the US as a whole in 2013, the number of murders was 14, 196. This is down 4.4% from 2012, 7.8% from 2009 and 12.1% from 2001. Note that this is numbers, not rates; when counted as rates per 100,000, which corrects for rising total population, the percentage decreases are even higher - down 5.1% from 2012, 10.5% from 2009 and 18.3% from 2001.

The current murder rate is about 4.5 per 100,000 per year in the US as a whole (of course, with big regional variation), whereas in 1990 it hit a peak at around 10 per 100,000, higher than it had been for many decades. 'Round about 1800 the murder rate was about 20 per 100,000, while around 1700 the murder rate was well over 30 per 100,000. Those were dangerous times.

You wana know why murders are down so significantly from 20 years ago ? The medical field really has gotten superb at patching up people. Technology in the ER and equipment the first responders use one scene has made a tremedous impact in saving lives of people shot...so many of them can be shot again. The number that really should be looked at is actual shootings which can and is manipulated. If it's not reported, it did not happen. Smoke and mirrors kids.

That's an interesting point, Dan, and one I hadn't considered - is the murder rate lower due to confounding factors such as better trauma care? So I looked into that but the data doesn't support that theory either. Not only is the murder rate down, but the rate of violent crime overall is down. Going with your theory, I looked at the rates of aggravated assault since agg assault would seem to be the most likely charge in the scenario of someone seriously assaulted but then successfully treated in hospital. These data fit the general pattern, with highs in the 70s-80s which then drop in the 90s and continue dropping. There's more data than people probably want to read but, for a taste of it, rates per 100,000 of agg assault in 1960 were 86.1, in 1989 were 383.4, and in 2013 were 229.1.

Dan, if you have different data please post it. In which way do you think crime data is being manipulated?

In a pinko way lol

muskydan

oftenreading said:

muskydan said:

oftenreading said:

muskydan said:

brianlux said:

Sad that these kinds of stories have become more common place. At least that is how I see it. I hear all the time how crime is "down" in America and we only think it is worse because information is spread so quickly. So am I experiencing confirmation bias when I say I don't believe violent crime is down or am I just to damn old and cynical or is this country in denial?

Now that's using your Knoggin.....don't ever believe that BS that crime is down. Reclassifying crime is how big cities manipulate numbers. Look up the Ultimate crime depressor COM STAT that many big cities use to hide crime. The only problem is they have not figured out a way to hide Dead Bodies, but they will eventually...

They don't need to hide dead bodies; those numbers are down as well. You're right to bring it up; the number of murders is a good proxy for crime rates since most murders get recorded whereas the data can be muddy on lesser crimes.

In the US as a whole in 2013, the number of murders was 14, 196. This is down 4.4% from 2012, 7.8% from 2009 and 12.1% from 2001. Note that this is numbers, not rates; when counted as rates per 100,000, which corrects for rising total population, the percentage decreases are even higher - down 5.1% from 2012, 10.5% from 2009 and 18.3% from 2001.

The current murder rate is about 4.5 per 100,000 per year in the US as a whole (of course, with big regional variation), whereas in 1990 it hit a peak at around 10 per 100,000, higher than it had been for many decades. 'Round about 1800 the murder rate was about 20 per 100,000, while around 1700 the murder rate was well over 30 per 100,000. Those were dangerous times.

You wana know why murders are down so significantly from 20 years ago ? The medical field really has gotten superb at patching up people. Technology in the ER and equipment the first responders use one scene has made a tremedous impact in saving lives of people shot...so many of them can be shot again. The number that really should be looked at is actual shootings which can and is manipulated. If it's not reported, it did not happen. Smoke and mirrors kids.

That's an interesting point, Dan, and one I hadn't considered - is the murder rate lower due to confounding factors such as better trauma care? So I looked into that but the data doesn't support that theory either. Not only is the murder rate down, but the rate of violent crime overall is down. Going with your theory, I looked at the rates of aggravated assault since agg assault would seem to be the most likely charge in the scenario of someone seriously assaulted but then successfully treated in hospital. These data fit the general pattern, with highs in the 70s-80s which then drop in the 90s and continue dropping. There's more data than people probably want to read but, for a taste of it, rates per 100,000 of agg assault in 1960 were 86.1, in 1989 were 383.4, and in 2013 were 229.1.

Dan, if you have different data please post it. In which way do you think crime data is being manipulated?

Edit - after a bit more searching I found another article that looks specifically at the issue of data on nonfatal shootings in the US and found that the data are poor and inconsistent; due in part, unfortunately, to the strong pressure from some lobby groups and a certain political party to disallow research on gun violence. All of the data sets are thus limited; some sets show a decline in gunshot wounds along with the decline in reported violent crime, while others show an increase. Hospital are required to report gunshot wounds but it doesn't look like that data is being used in an effective way. It also noted that the theory that better medical care is improving survival may not be true - some individual hospitals have studied their outcome data and have found that the injuries people are presenting with may be getting more and more serious (more brain and spinal injuries, etc), and mortality rates are increasing again.

Hey man, I appreciate your energy by researching Data and what not, but there are so many ways Police departments manipulate data to create the illusion of a safe environment. There is so much pressure on Police Brass to appease politicians desire for safer streets so reclassification of crime if reported happens all the time. All I ever go on is what I see w/ my own eyes and ears and talking to numerous ER surgeons over the years their theories on how we never would have been able to save this person 10 years ago. In my city is all about the homicide number, that's all our shitty 9.5 finger Mayor Rhamarina cares about when it comes to crime... No data will ever convince me the streets are any safer than 2, 4, 6 , 10 years ago. It's all the same shit, it's just now the bad guy no longer fears the police and they are a lot more Brazen towards the police and joe citizen. Scary times ahead when the Police are not proactive anyone...look what is happening in Baltimore .

Halifax2TheMax

Bump