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OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.0 -
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.0 -
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?0 -
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?0 -
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.0 -
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.0 -
Meters are a gimmick, but I'm a sucker for them. I was deciding between two different amps a few years ago and they were very close. The meters were the deciding factor.mookeywrench said:
It's a 50 year anniversary integrated amp modeled after their original amp. NAD C 3050.mrussel1 said:
Is that a new product for NAD or something older? I don't know them in and out, but they are well respected. I think of them like Rotel.mookeywrench said:New upgrade that arrived last week. Been thoroughly enjoying it.
https://images.app.goo.gl/hhkLRQtPMRfeFvep80 -
Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
10-16-2014 Detroit0 -
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.0 -
So I don't know those Pioneers well, but a quick research tells me it is an amplifier, not an integrated amplifier (or stereo receiver). Is that true? If it is, well then you need a pre-amp. An amplifier does not decode audio signals. It just amplifies the signal.tempo_n_groove said:
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.0 -
Yes its an integrated amp. It ran into a 8500ii receiver which sounded wonderful.mrussel1 said:
So I don't know those Pioneers well, but a quick research tells me it is an amplifier, not an integrated amplifier (or stereo receiver). Is that true? If it is, well then you need a pre-amp. An amplifier does not decode audio signals. It just amplifies the signal.tempo_n_groove said:
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sa-8500.shtml
0 -
If you can get that up and running, I'm guessing that's WAY better than anything you'll find for $500. I think those are very well regarded. @dudeman is the vintage expert so trust his opinion on it.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes its an integrated amp. It ran into a 8500ii receiver which sounded wonderful.mrussel1 said:
So I don't know those Pioneers well, but a quick research tells me it is an amplifier, not an integrated amplifier (or stereo receiver). Is that true? If it is, well then you need a pre-amp. An amplifier does not decode audio signals. It just amplifies the signal.tempo_n_groove said:
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sa-8500.shtml
I don't love the phono stage on my Pioneer sx-750 though. I find it dry sounding. So if you're dissatisfied with that, I'm happy to send you a few I have on the sideline to see if you like them better. I have a Cambridge and Emotiva. The Emo is better quality.
Bottom line though, I think you have a nice piece of gear and 500 preamp is not going to be better.0 -
SX 750 are terrible. Thats why I bought the 8500ii. It needs a good tuning so I got the other for free for the time being. It's either get that gear back up to snuff or buy something new.mrussel1 said:
If you can get that up and running, I'm guessing that's WAY better than anything you'll find for $500. I think those are very well regarded. @dudeman is the vintage expert so trust his opinion on it.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes its an integrated amp. It ran into a 8500ii receiver which sounded wonderful.mrussel1 said:
So I don't know those Pioneers well, but a quick research tells me it is an amplifier, not an integrated amplifier (or stereo receiver). Is that true? If it is, well then you need a pre-amp. An amplifier does not decode audio signals. It just amplifies the signal.tempo_n_groove said:
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sa-8500.shtml
I don't love the phono stage on my Pioneer sx-750 though. I find it dry sounding. So if you're dissatisfied with that, I'm happy to send you a few I have on the sideline to see if you like them better. I have a Cambridge and Emotiva. The Emo is better quality.
Bottom line though, I think you have a nice piece of gear and 500 preamp is not going to be better.
That Denon was free and I read they make decent gear which is why I'm using it for now. So if a preamp wont do me any good I'll just hold off.
Most likely I'll buy something new.0 -
It I were in your shoes, I'd get that Pioneer gear serviced and never look back.tempo_n_groove said:
SX 750 are terrible. Thats why I bought the 8500ii. It needs a good tuning so I got the other for free for the time being. It's either get that gear back up to snuff or buy something new.mrussel1 said:
If you can get that up and running, I'm guessing that's WAY better than anything you'll find for $500. I think those are very well regarded. @dudeman is the vintage expert so trust his opinion on it.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes its an integrated amp. It ran into a 8500ii receiver which sounded wonderful.mrussel1 said:
So I don't know those Pioneers well, but a quick research tells me it is an amplifier, not an integrated amplifier (or stereo receiver). Is that true? If it is, well then you need a pre-amp. An amplifier does not decode audio signals. It just amplifies the signal.tempo_n_groove said:
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sa-8500.shtml
I don't love the phono stage on my Pioneer sx-750 though. I find it dry sounding. So if you're dissatisfied with that, I'm happy to send you a few I have on the sideline to see if you like them better. I have a Cambridge and Emotiva. The Emo is better quality.
Bottom line though, I think you have a nice piece of gear and 500 preamp is not going to be better.
That Denon was free and I read they make decent gear which is why I'm using it for now. So if a preamp wont do me any good I'll just hold off.
Most likely I'll buy something new.
IMO, you would have to spend a crazy amount of money for modern gear to improve on the sound quality of what you already have.If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV0 -
Really?dudeman said:
It I were in your shoes, I'd get that Pioneer gear serviced and never look back.tempo_n_groove said:
SX 750 are terrible. Thats why I bought the 8500ii. It needs a good tuning so I got the other for free for the time being. It's either get that gear back up to snuff or buy something new.mrussel1 said:
If you can get that up and running, I'm guessing that's WAY better than anything you'll find for $500. I think those are very well regarded. @dudeman is the vintage expert so trust his opinion on it.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes its an integrated amp. It ran into a 8500ii receiver which sounded wonderful.mrussel1 said:
So I don't know those Pioneers well, but a quick research tells me it is an amplifier, not an integrated amplifier (or stereo receiver). Is that true? If it is, well then you need a pre-amp. An amplifier does not decode audio signals. It just amplifies the signal.tempo_n_groove said:
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sa-8500.shtml
I don't love the phono stage on my Pioneer sx-750 though. I find it dry sounding. So if you're dissatisfied with that, I'm happy to send you a few I have on the sideline to see if you like them better. I have a Cambridge and Emotiva. The Emo is better quality.
Bottom line though, I think you have a nice piece of gear and 500 preamp is not going to be better.
That Denon was free and I read they make decent gear which is why I'm using it for now. So if a preamp wont do me any good I'll just hold off.
Most likely I'll buy something new.
IMO, you would have to spend a crazy amount of money for modern gear to improve on the sound quality of what you already have.
I dig the vintage look and sound myself but you have people that will jump up and down about modern equipment. I get u have to spend a ton on some stuff but man…
OK I’ll get em cleaned up.
Didn’t one of you on here dabble in this shit? Anyone live near NY that wants to work on it?
0 -
OK I have an appointment Tuesday for my gear!0
-
Repair guy replicated your response. He says the modern equipment can't match what the 70's Hi Fi stuff did and how it was made.dudeman said:
It I were in your shoes, I'd get that Pioneer gear serviced and never look back.tempo_n_groove said:
SX 750 are terrible. Thats why I bought the 8500ii. It needs a good tuning so I got the other for free for the time being. It's either get that gear back up to snuff or buy something new.mrussel1 said:
If you can get that up and running, I'm guessing that's WAY better than anything you'll find for $500. I think those are very well regarded. @dudeman is the vintage expert so trust his opinion on it.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes its an integrated amp. It ran into a 8500ii receiver which sounded wonderful.mrussel1 said:
So I don't know those Pioneers well, but a quick research tells me it is an amplifier, not an integrated amplifier (or stereo receiver). Is that true? If it is, well then you need a pre-amp. An amplifier does not decode audio signals. It just amplifies the signal.tempo_n_groove said:
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sa-8500.shtml
I don't love the phono stage on my Pioneer sx-750 though. I find it dry sounding. So if you're dissatisfied with that, I'm happy to send you a few I have on the sideline to see if you like them better. I have a Cambridge and Emotiva. The Emo is better quality.
Bottom line though, I think you have a nice piece of gear and 500 preamp is not going to be better.
That Denon was free and I read they make decent gear which is why I'm using it for now. So if a preamp wont do me any good I'll just hold off.
Most likely I'll buy something new.
IMO, you would have to spend a crazy amount of money for modern gear to improve on the sound quality of what you already have.
I said "cool, I want this to work for 30 more years, so do what u need to."
He also says that demand for these types of units will only be getting more expensive so if you want to go retro, get it now.0 -
Agreed on all counts.tempo_n_groove said:
Repair guy replicated your response. He says the modern equipment can't match what the 70's Hi Fi stuff did and how it was made.dudeman said:
It I were in your shoes, I'd get that Pioneer gear serviced and never look back.tempo_n_groove said:
SX 750 are terrible. Thats why I bought the 8500ii. It needs a good tuning so I got the other for free for the time being. It's either get that gear back up to snuff or buy something new.mrussel1 said:
If you can get that up and running, I'm guessing that's WAY better than anything you'll find for $500. I think those are very well regarded. @dudeman is the vintage expert so trust his opinion on it.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes its an integrated amp. It ran into a 8500ii receiver which sounded wonderful.mrussel1 said:
So I don't know those Pioneers well, but a quick research tells me it is an amplifier, not an integrated amplifier (or stereo receiver). Is that true? If it is, well then you need a pre-amp. An amplifier does not decode audio signals. It just amplifies the signal.tempo_n_groove said:
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sa-8500.shtml
I don't love the phono stage on my Pioneer sx-750 though. I find it dry sounding. So if you're dissatisfied with that, I'm happy to send you a few I have on the sideline to see if you like them better. I have a Cambridge and Emotiva. The Emo is better quality.
Bottom line though, I think you have a nice piece of gear and 500 preamp is not going to be better.
That Denon was free and I read they make decent gear which is why I'm using it for now. So if a preamp wont do me any good I'll just hold off.
Most likely I'll buy something new.
IMO, you would have to spend a crazy amount of money for modern gear to improve on the sound quality of what you already have.
I said "cool, I want this to work for 30 more years, so do what u need to."
He also says that demand for these types of units will only be getting more expensive so if you want to go retro, get it now.
I hope you have a good experience with that servicer. That Pioneer gear is legendary and for good reason.If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV0 -
I have a Carbon with an Ortofon Blue and I picked up a Schiit Mani a few years ago. They're cheap- about $150, but it definitely made a difference.
0 -
He did mention that tube was the next way to go. Let me get this gear up and running then I'll fin a vintage tube amp and go that route.dudeman said:
Agreed on all counts.tempo_n_groove said:
Repair guy replicated your response. He says the modern equipment can't match what the 70's Hi Fi stuff did and how it was made.dudeman said:
It I were in your shoes, I'd get that Pioneer gear serviced and never look back.tempo_n_groove said:
SX 750 are terrible. Thats why I bought the 8500ii. It needs a good tuning so I got the other for free for the time being. It's either get that gear back up to snuff or buy something new.mrussel1 said:
If you can get that up and running, I'm guessing that's WAY better than anything you'll find for $500. I think those are very well regarded. @dudeman is the vintage expert so trust his opinion on it.tempo_n_groove said:
Yes its an integrated amp. It ran into a 8500ii receiver which sounded wonderful.mrussel1 said:
So I don't know those Pioneers well, but a quick research tells me it is an amplifier, not an integrated amplifier (or stereo receiver). Is that true? If it is, well then you need a pre-amp. An amplifier does not decode audio signals. It just amplifies the signal.tempo_n_groove said:
So basically I should have my Pioneer 8500ii tuned back up and I should be good? No preamp needed? Well I don't think I should need one. It sounded great with this.mrussel1 said:
Lot to unpack here. First, a good preamp does make a difference. I think it makes more of a difference than the solid state amplifier. If this is your AVR https://www.ebay.com/itm/364192602233 then yes, I would think a better preamp would sound much better. An AVR is designed for home theater fundamentally, and the manufacturers spend a lot of money for the Dolby, HDMI and other certifications you see all over the component. All of those circuit boards create noise.tempo_n_groove said:
This is getting complicated now...mrussel1 said:
So you want a true preamp but then run it to the AVR input to use as an amp?tempo_n_groove said:
Price I'd like to see it under $500.mrussel1 said:
What's your price point? And do you want a tube? What is the amp that it will be paired with? Do you need a phono stage? Do you need a DAC?tempo_n_groove said:OK Need preamp recommendations. Running a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut. It has the red Ortofon 2m cart.
Looking to get a nice preamp and upgrade to blue cartridge to see if I can hear a difference.
I was looking at the Project S2 tube but maybe that isn;t the way to go?
OK, lets hear it.
No tubes as mentioned w the S2. If I do go that route then I'll be switching out the amp next.
The amp is a amp/receiver Denon AVR2700. Not the newer X2700.
It has a dedicated phono stage already.
I would think it would need a DAC? Not sure if the phono stage converts it?
Have you considered another integrated (non-avr)? Or do you want separates?
I read that you need a good preamp. I'm guessing that's not the case? I have it set up now where it plays and sounds good. Iwas wanting to see if it could sound even better.
If my records play through the speakers I guess I don't need a preamp.
I have 2 vintage integrated amps already and both need work so it's the Denon for right now.
Some people do think a preamp makes a big difference and it can at a high price point for sure. But an integrated amp (not an AVR) from a reputable company would sound much better than that AVR you have. First and foremost, it will have a better phono stage I'm sure. But you can also go with a preamp and connect it to your Denon AVR and have the AVR serve as the amplifier. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.
Some good, affordable brands for integrated amps are Yamaha, Cambridge and Marantz. I would expect those would sound much better than your AVR. This all presumes you have good speakers which is definitely the most important piece of the puzzle. So if you don't love your speakers, I'd replace those first.
If you want an preamp and connect it to your Denon, I'm a big fan of Emotiva products. I think they are really well priced for what you get. Here is their preamp right at $500 https://emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/basx-pt1-stereo-preamplifier-dac-tuner
There are probably not a ton of options for a preamp at your price point. People who go with separates are usually high end spenders.
I'm currently pushing Martin Logan 16's. When this setup was in a bigger room I was using the HPM100's w the 200W version.
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sa-8500.shtml
I don't love the phono stage on my Pioneer sx-750 though. I find it dry sounding. So if you're dissatisfied with that, I'm happy to send you a few I have on the sideline to see if you like them better. I have a Cambridge and Emotiva. The Emo is better quality.
Bottom line though, I think you have a nice piece of gear and 500 preamp is not going to be better.
That Denon was free and I read they make decent gear which is why I'm using it for now. So if a preamp wont do me any good I'll just hold off.
Most likely I'll buy something new.
IMO, you would have to spend a crazy amount of money for modern gear to improve on the sound quality of what you already have.
I said "cool, I want this to work for 30 more years, so do what u need to."
He also says that demand for these types of units will only be getting more expensive so if you want to go retro, get it now.
I hope you have a good experience with that servicer. That Pioneer gear is legendary and for good reason.0
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