Ben,I think perceived value has to be factored in. Example-I personally will splurge on better seats or vip,etc at a show or concert.That is what I enjoy so I put a higher value on it.You may feel Im wasting my money or that activity has no value to you and you view it as a waste.It really is to personal to chery pick. And I don't think there is guilt as long an individual can or is benevolent in other ways or in other forms.(Time,volunteering,fund raising etc)
Ed " people in the front look at the people in the rear, people in the front look at the people in the rear".
Like you, have splurged on premium tickets. Obviously as we were feet from each other at such an event. Have though looked at those less fortunate and realized how lucky I was.
As to charitable causes and volunteering, drive is from ones personal gains rather than the perceived beneficiary. Not a bad thing and people are helped but giving is a selfish act.
Hm. Seems the clocks have been turned back on our behalves, which I consider a good thing!
Most everything we do is a selfish act: even if we ignore the 'recognition from society' elements, I'm convinced that to do good for others eventually comes around to benefit us personally. Call it karma if you'd like, but I think to enable others to self-actualize on their dreams through the honing and realization of their skills, civilization can progress in ways it couldn't otherwise. As I've said elsewhere - how many people with brainpower equivalent of Steve Jobs/Albert Einstein/Nicolas Tesla/Elon Musk have lived and died toiling fields without a chance of having an education or even a way to communicate with the world at large?
There are ways to minimize the selfishness of our charitable ventures. For the 'recognition from society' element, we can minimize that through giving anonymously. We can also donate our time (something with an opportunity cost to the rich and poor, unlike money).
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
And that sucks. Takes two to tangle and was unfairly ganged up on.
Closet conservative 2
Pinko pacifist Liberals 0.
With all due respect, I didn't make this thread for name-calling, people categorizing, competing, nor picking fights. There are enough other threads you can do that in.
As for your comment before about giving being inherently selfish, one can minimize the selfishness of a charitable act (though not eliminate it entirely) by giving anonymously, without seeking recognition. One of the things Judaism gets right in my opinion is that it labels this as the 'highest' form of charity.
Yeah well note of BSL being banned was the catalyst. Sure we'll get lots of "yeah I agree with you Ben" posts after yours. Don't care to be popular as BSL didn't care. That's why it sucks even more.
All giving regardless of public knowledge is for ones own benefit. Yes this is not palatable and one may want to believe otherwise but it is what it is.
And that sucks. Takes two to tangle and was unfairly ganged up on.
Closet conservative 2
Pinko pacifist Liberals 0.
With all due respect, I didn't make this thread for name-calling, people categorizing, competing, nor picking fights. There are enough other threads you can do that in.
As for your comment before about giving being inherently selfish, one can minimize the selfishness of a charitable act (though not eliminate it entirely) by giving anonymously, without seeking recognition. One of the things Judaism gets right in my opinion is that it labels this as the 'highest' form of charity.
Yeah well note of BSL being banned was the catalyst. Sure we'll get lots of "yeah I agree with you Ben" posts after yours. Don't care to be popular as BSL didn't care. That's why it sucks even more.
All giving regardless of public knowledge is for ones own benefit. Yes this is not palatable and one may want to believe otherwise but it is what it is.
I'm with you here, Callen. I have said this for years, and it is an unpopular opinion, but it is also and interesting philosophical debate which has gone on forever.
This sums up how I feel about charitable acts, and altruism: "Altruistic acts are self-interested, if not because they relieve anxiety, then perhaps because they lead to pleasant feelings of pride and satisfaction; the expectation of honor or reciprocation; or the greater likelihood of a place in heaven; and even if neither of the above, then at least because they relieve unpleasant feelings such as the guilt or shame of not having acted at all." https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201203/does-true-altruism-exist
That doesn't mean that we can't be altruistic, or that we shouldn't be charitable, but it is a recognition that all charitable acts have some degree of selfishness, even if it is a secondary motivation.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I think many - most? - of our acts are borne of some level of selfishness; it's inherent and not always a negative. And, like jeff's post above, sometimes it's not the main driving force behind charity or basic kindnesses.
It's pretty cool to see someone benefit or just smile from both the inconsequential and meaningful. If I mentally pat myself on the back a bit in the process, no harm done!
Usually though, it's more of a "just the right thing to do" type of situation.
Maybe it spurs others to extend themselves as well? The actions of others have definitely inspired me.
And that sucks. Takes two to tangle and was unfairly ganged up on.
Closet conservative 2
Pinko pacifist Liberals 0.
With all due respect, I didn't make this thread for name-calling, people categorizing, competing, nor picking fights. There are enough other threads you can do that in.
As for your comment before about giving being inherently selfish, one can minimize the selfishness of a charitable act (though not eliminate it entirely) by giving anonymously, without seeking recognition. One of the things Judaism gets right in my opinion is that it labels this as the 'highest' form of charity.
Yeah well note of BSL being banned was the catalyst. Sure we'll get lots of "yeah I agree with you Ben" posts after yours. Don't care to be popular as BSL didn't care. That's why it sucks even more.
All giving regardless of public knowledge is for ones own benefit. Yes this is not palatable and one may want to believe otherwise but it is what it is.
I'm with you here, Callen. I have said this for years, and it is an unpopular opinion, but it is also and interesting philosophical debate which has gone on forever.
This sums up how I feel about charitable acts, and altruism: "Altruistic acts are self-interested, if not because they relieve anxiety, then perhaps because they lead to pleasant feelings of pride and satisfaction; the expectation of honor or reciprocation; or the greater likelihood of a place in heaven; and even if neither of the above, then at least because they relieve unpleasant feelings such as the guilt or shame of not having acted at all." https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201203/does-true-altruism-exist
That doesn't mean that we can't be altruistic, or that we shouldn't be charitable, but it is a recognition that all charitable acts have some degree of selfishness, even if it is a secondary motivation.
I don't expect we can ever eliminate the selfishness in each and every act we perform - my theory is that if you do something that serves yourself exclusively, or you can alternatively do something that serves yourself as well as others, why the hell not do that? My theory is also that doing the latter will almost always better your life in greater ways (in the long-term) than the former.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Good thoughts, Benjs and Hedo! I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't strive to be charitable or altruistic. Even if there are secondary or tertiary self-interested motivations, the mere act of doing something to benefit someone else has to ultimately be a positive. I love to make others smile and to do nice things for people. But I recognize that I do so partly because it gives me a good feeling, which is the self-interested part. Enlightened self-interest is a concept or philosophy that makes sense to me.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Good thoughts, Benjs and Hedo! I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't strive to be charitable or altruistic. Even if there are secondary or tertiary self-interested motivations, the mere act of doing something to benefit someone else has to ultimately be a positive. I love to make others smile and to do nice things for people. But I recognize that I do so partly because it gives me a good feeling, which is the self-interested part. Enlightened self-interest is a concept or philosophy that makes sense to me.
Jeff, I consider myself an empathetic person and couldn't agree more! It pains me to see others in pain, it pleases me to see others pleased. Selfish or not, it's how I feel life is best lived
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Good thoughts, Benjs and Hedo! I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't strive to be charitable or altruistic. Even if there are secondary or tertiary self-interested motivations, the mere act of doing something to benefit someone else has to ultimately be a positive. I love to make others smile and to do nice things for people. But I recognize that I do so partly because it gives me a good feeling, which is the self-interested part. Enlightened self-interest is a concept or philosophy that makes sense to me.
Jeff, I consider myself an empathetic person and couldn't agree more! It pains me to see others in pain, it pleases me to see others pleased. Selfish or not, it's how I feel life is best lived
And that sucks. Takes two to tangle and was unfairly ganged up on.
Closet conservative 2
Pinko pacifist Liberals 0.
With all due respect, I didn't make this thread for name-calling, people categorizing, competing, nor picking fights. There are enough other threads you can do that in.
As for your comment before about giving being inherently selfish, one can minimize the selfishness of a charitable act (though not eliminate it entirely) by giving anonymously, without seeking recognition. One of the things Judaism gets right in my opinion is that it labels this as the 'highest' form of charity.
Yeah well note of BSL being banned was the catalyst. Sure we'll get lots of "yeah I agree with you Ben" posts after yours. Don't care to be popular as BSL didn't care. That's why it sucks even more.
All giving regardless of public knowledge is for ones own benefit. Yes this is not palatable and one may want to believe otherwise but it is what it is.
I'm with you here, Callen. I have said this for years, and it is an unpopular opinion, but it is also and interesting philosophical debate which has gone on forever.
This sums up how I feel about charitable acts, and altruism: "Altruistic acts are self-interested, if not because they relieve anxiety, then perhaps because they lead to pleasant feelings of pride and satisfaction; the expectation of honor or reciprocation; or the greater likelihood of a place in heaven; and even if neither of the above, then at least because they relieve unpleasant feelings such as the guilt or shame of not having acted at all." https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201203/does-true-altruism-exist
That doesn't mean that we can't be altruistic, or that we shouldn't be charitable, but it is a recognition that all charitable acts have some degree of selfishness, even if it is a secondary motivation.
I don't expect we can ever eliminate the selfishness in each and every act we perform - my theory is that if you do something that serves yourself exclusively, or you can alternatively do something that serves yourself as well as others, why the hell not do that? My theory is also that doing the latter will almost always better your life in greater ways (in the long-term) than the former.
Agree. And helping out ones fellow man is a great thing. Great trait if the human species.
Had a gentleman struggling to get I to his truck last week locked himself out. I wanted to go home bad but I hesitated and went over and helped him. He shook my hand and it felt great. I know I helped him but do t try to tell myself I did it for him. Was all for me as if I didn't help I would of felt bad. When I helped I felt good. I maintain that it's never selfless in any way.
Why it sucks so bad seeing a company using veterans to promote their brand. Sick.
And that sucks. Takes two to tangle and was unfairly ganged up on.
Closet conservative 2
Pinko pacifist Liberals 0.
With all due respect, I didn't make this thread for name-calling, people categorizing, competing, nor picking fights. There are enough other threads you can do that in.
As for your comment before about giving being inherently selfish, one can minimize the selfishness of a charitable act (though not eliminate it entirely) by giving anonymously, without seeking recognition. One of the things Judaism gets right in my opinion is that it labels this as the 'highest' form of charity.
Yeah well note of BSL being banned was the catalyst. Sure we'll get lots of "yeah I agree with you Ben" posts after yours. Don't care to be popular as BSL didn't care. That's why it sucks even more.
All giving regardless of public knowledge is for ones own benefit. Yes this is not palatable and one may want to believe otherwise but it is what it is.
I'm with you here, Callen. I have said this for years, and it is an unpopular opinion, but it is also and interesting philosophical debate which has gone on forever.
This sums up how I feel about charitable acts, and altruism: "Altruistic acts are self-interested, if not because they relieve anxiety, then perhaps because they lead to pleasant feelings of pride and satisfaction; the expectation of honor or reciprocation; or the greater likelihood of a place in heaven; and even if neither of the above, then at least because they relieve unpleasant feelings such as the guilt or shame of not having acted at all." https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201203/does-true-altruism-exist
That doesn't mean that we can't be altruistic, or that we shouldn't be charitable, but it is a recognition that all charitable acts have some degree of selfishness, even if it is a secondary motivation.
I don't expect we can ever eliminate the selfishness in each and every act we perform - my theory is that if you do something that serves yourself exclusively, or you can alternatively do something that serves yourself as well as others, why the hell not do that? My theory is also that doing the latter will almost always better your life in greater ways (in the long-term) than the former.
Agree. And helping out ones fellow man is a great thing. Great trait if the human species.
Had a gentleman struggling to get I to his truck last week locked himself out. I wanted to go home bad but I hesitated and went over and helped him. He shook my hand and it felt great. I know I helped him but do t try to tell myself I did it for him. Was all for me as if I didn't help I would of felt bad. When I helped I felt good. I maintain that it's never selfless in any way.
Why it sucks so bad seeing a company using veterans to promote their brand. Sick.
Don't try to convince yourself you did it for him: just remember you didn't have to do it. You dedicated effort to helping a person, and regardless of whether you felt better because of it - so did he. That second part is the part that matters.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Ben,I think perceived value has to be factored in. Example-I personally will splurge on better seats or vip,etc at a show or concert.That is what I enjoy so I put a higher value on it.You may feel Im wasting my money or that activity has no value to you and you view it as a waste.It really is to personal to chery pick. And I don't think there is guilt as long an individual can or is benevolent in other ways or in other forms.(Time,volunteering,fund raising etc)
Ed " people in the front look at the people in the rear, people in the front look at the people in the rear".
Like you, have splurged on premium tickets. Obviously as we were feet from each other at such an event. Have though looked at those less fortunate and realized how lucky I was.
As to charitable causes and volunteering, drive is from ones personal gains rather than the perceived beneficiary. Not a bad thing and people are helped but giving is a selfish act.
Cal,I was trying to find the morning quote you referenced in the other thread,and I'm assuming this is it.
So standing in our high perch big dollar vip seats looking back at the rest of the house,of course we feel lucky,and blessed(Espescially at a PJ show) But I don't see those behind us as less fortunate.I don't look at it like that at all. I see myself at a concert in my teens or 20s.You know Sabbath,Van Halen,Maiden,Nugent,Aerosmith,etc .Ive been in those seats,for hundreds of shows I've crammed in a car with 8 people,pissin in a Mountain Dew bottle and smoking copious amounts of weed.Drinking crappy beer.Not remembering what happened ,but knowing I had a blast when waking the next morning. To be honest,I have better access an amenities now ,But gotta tell Ya I had a lot more carefree fun back then!and great memories.So I ask you ,who is really looking back at who with envy? It's all perspective isn't it?
Good thoughts, Benjs and Hedo! I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't strive to be charitable or altruistic. Even if there are secondary or tertiary self-interested motivations, the mere act of doing something to benefit someone else has to ultimately be a positive. I love to make others smile and to do nice things for people. But I recognize that I do so partly because it gives me a good feeling, which is the self-interested part. Enlightened self-interest is a concept or philosophy that makes sense to me.
Jeff, I consider myself an empathetic person and couldn't agree more! It pains me to see others in pain, it pleases me to see others pleased. Selfish or not, it's how I feel life is best lived
That's really it isn't it Ben? I won't feel guilty though bringing smiles or happiness to other.I love the way it makes me feel.It completes something inside,like it makes me feel more connected to those around me.Its win/Win. I think it's only truly selfish if you expect something in return.
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Good thoughts, Benjs and Hedo! I didn't mean to imply that we shouldn't strive to be charitable or altruistic. Even if there are secondary or tertiary self-interested motivations, the mere act of doing something to benefit someone else has to ultimately be a positive. I love to make others smile and to do nice things for people. But I recognize that I do so partly because it gives me a good feeling, which is the self-interested part. Enlightened self-interest is a concept or philosophy that makes sense to me.
Jeff, I consider myself an empathetic person and couldn't agree more! It pains me to see others in pain, it pleases me to see others pleased. Selfish or not, it's how I feel life is best lived
That's really it isn't it Ben? I won't feel guilty though bringing smiles or happiness to other.I love the way it makes me feel.It completes something inside,like it makes me feel more connected to those around me.Its win/Win. I think it's only truly selfish if you expect something in return.
Yes (with emphasis on "truly selfish").
This morning when leaving for work, my neighbor - who has lived slightly across the hall since I moved in almost 24 years ago - was returning from walking her dog. She looked awful, stopped to lean against the wall. When I asked if she was alright, she told me she's been sick and having heart issues. I offered to help her back to her place (declined), and to walk her dog if needed (accepted). Didn't even think twice about it; the thoughts and words just came, and I'm glad they did. She has friends with dogs in the building who could certainly assist with this as well, but knowing if the pooch needs to be walked quickly, she can just ask us.
And upon further reflection, I actually feel weird posting this, as it's not with the intent of receiving kudos but more to illustrate that sometimes we just DO things without second thought, simply driven by conscience that wouldn't allow otherwise.
And that sucks. Takes two to tangle and was unfairly ganged up on.
Closet conservative 2
Pinko pacifist Liberals 0.
With all due respect, I didn't make this thread for name-calling, people categorizing, competing, nor picking fights. There are enough other threads you can do that in.
As for your comment before about giving being inherently selfish, one can minimize the selfishness of a charitable act (though not eliminate it entirely) by giving anonymously, without seeking recognition. One of the things Judaism gets right in my opinion is that it labels this as the 'highest' form of charity.
Yeah well note of BSL being banned was the catalyst. Sure we'll get lots of "yeah I agree with you Ben" posts after yours. Don't care to be popular as BSL didn't care. That's why it sucks even more.
All giving regardless of public knowledge is for ones own benefit. Yes this is not palatable and one may want to believe otherwise but it is what it is.
I'm with you here, Callen. I have said this for years, and it is an unpopular opinion, but it is also and interesting philosophical debate which has gone on forever.
This sums up how I feel about charitable acts, and altruism: "Altruistic acts are self-interested, if not because they relieve anxiety, then perhaps because they lead to pleasant feelings of pride and satisfaction; the expectation of honor or reciprocation; or the greater likelihood of a place in heaven; and even if neither of the above, then at least because they relieve unpleasant feelings such as the guilt or shame of not having acted at all." https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201203/does-true-altruism-exist
That doesn't mean that we can't be altruistic, or that we shouldn't be charitable, but it is a recognition that all charitable acts have some degree of selfishness, even if it is a secondary motivation.
I don't expect we can ever eliminate the selfishness in each and every act we perform - my theory is that if you do something that serves yourself exclusively, or you can alternatively do something that serves yourself as well as others, why the hell not do that? My theory is also that doing the latter will almost always better your life in greater ways (in the long-term) than the former.
Agree. And helping out ones fellow man is a great thing. Great trait if the human species.
Had a gentleman struggling to get I to his truck last week locked himself out. I wanted to go home bad but I hesitated and went over and helped him. He shook my hand and it felt great. I know I helped him but do t try to tell myself I did it for him. Was all for me as if I didn't help I would of felt bad. When I helped I felt good. I maintain that it's never selfless in any way.
Why it sucks so bad seeing a company using veterans to promote their brand. Sick.
Don't try to convince yourself you did it for him: just remember you didn't have to do it. You dedicated effort to helping a person, and regardless of whether you felt better because of it - so did he. That second part is the part that matters.
Not trying to convince myself anything, know my motivations were to satisfy my needs not his.
Ben,I think perceived value has to be factored in. Example-I personally will splurge on better seats or vip,etc at a show or concert.That is what I enjoy so I put a higher value on it.You may feel Im wasting my money or that activity has no value to you and you view it as a waste.It really is to personal to chery pick. And I don't think there is guilt as long an individual can or is benevolent in other ways or in other forms.(Time,volunteering,fund raising etc)
Ed " people in the front look at the people in the rear, people in the front look at the people in the rear".
Like you, have splurged on premium tickets. Obviously as we were feet from each other at such an event. Have though looked at those less fortunate and realized how lucky I was.
As to charitable causes and volunteering, drive is from ones personal gains rather than the perceived beneficiary. Not a bad thing and people are helped but giving is a selfish act.
Cal,I was trying to find the morning quote you referenced in the other thread,and I'm assuming this is it.
So standing in our high perch big dollar vip seats looking back at the rest of the house,of course we feel lucky,and blessed(Espescially at a PJ show) But I don't see those behind us as less fortunate.I don't look at it like that at all. I see myself at a concert in my teens or 20s.You know Sabbath,Van Halen,Maiden,Nugent,Aerosmith,etc .Ive been in those seats,for hundreds of shows I've crammed in a car with 8 people,pissin in a Mountain Dew bottle and smoking copious amounts of weed.Drinking crappy beer.Not remembering what happened ,but knowing I had a blast when waking the next morning. To be honest,I have better access an amenities now ,But gotta tell Ya I had a lot more carefree fun back then!and great memories.So I ask you ,who is really looking back at who with envy? It's all perspective isn't it?
True I've also had nosebleed seats and thrilled but do also realize many will never be able to buy 600 tickets. Also like you, will sacrifice other things to get that primo PJ experience. Sometimes putting in long hours.
Ben,I think perceived value has to be factored in. Example-I personally will splurge on better seats or vip,etc at a show or concert.That is what I enjoy so I put a higher value on it.You may feel Im wasting my money or that activity has no value to you and you view it as a waste.It really is to personal to chery pick. And I don't think there is guilt as long an individual can or is benevolent in other ways or in other forms.(Time,volunteering,fund raising etc)
Ed " people in the front look at the people in the rear, people in the front look at the people in the rear".
Like you, have splurged on premium tickets. Obviously as we were feet from each other at such an event. Have though looked at those less fortunate and realized how lucky I was.
As to charitable causes and volunteering, drive is from ones personal gains rather than the perceived beneficiary. Not a bad thing and people are helped but giving is a selfish act.
Cal,I was trying to find the morning quote you referenced in the other thread,and I'm assuming this is it.
So standing in our high perch big dollar vip seats looking back at the rest of the house,of course we feel lucky,and blessed(Espescially at a PJ show) But I don't see those behind us as less fortunate.I don't look at it like that at all. I see myself at a concert in my teens or 20s.You know Sabbath,Van Halen,Maiden,Nugent,Aerosmith,etc .Ive been in those seats,for hundreds of shows I've crammed in a car with 8 people,pissin in a Mountain Dew bottle and smoking copious amounts of weed.Drinking crappy beer.Not remembering what happened ,but knowing I had a blast when waking the next morning. To be honest,I have better access an amenities now ,But gotta tell Ya I had a lot more carefree fun back then!and great memories.So I ask you ,who is really looking back at who with envy? It's all perspective isn't it?
True I've also had nosebleed seats and thrilled but do also realize many will never be able to buy 600 tickets. Also like you, will sacrifice other things to get that primo PJ experience. Sometimes putting in long hours.
I'm jonesing now. HA.
I have never and will never support the scalping industry (though I can afford to). I've been front row at Pearl Jam and several other shows by being at Ticketmaster quickly, or by speaking with fantastic people who have given me the opportunity at face value. I've also sold tickets to shows in the front row at face value, and will not ask for above face.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Ben,I think perceived value has to be factored in. Example-I personally will splurge on better seats or vip,etc at a show or concert.That is what I enjoy so I put a higher value on it.You may feel Im wasting my money or that activity has no value to you and you view it as a waste.It really is to personal to chery pick. And I don't think there is guilt as long an individual can or is benevolent in other ways or in other forms.(Time,volunteering,fund raising etc)
Ed " people in the front look at the people in the rear, people in the front look at the people in the rear".
Like you, have splurged on premium tickets. Obviously as we were feet from each other at such an event. Have though looked at those less fortunate and realized how lucky I was.
As to charitable causes and volunteering, drive is from ones personal gains rather than the perceived beneficiary. Not a bad thing and people are helped but giving is a selfish act.
Cal,I was trying to find the morning quote you referenced in the other thread,and I'm assuming this is it.
So standing in our high perch big dollar vip seats looking back at the rest of the house,of course we feel lucky,and blessed(Espescially at a PJ show) But I don't see those behind us as less fortunate.I don't look at it like that at all. I see myself at a concert in my teens or 20s.You know Sabbath,Van Halen,Maiden,Nugent,Aerosmith,etc .Ive been in those seats,for hundreds of shows I've crammed in a car with 8 people,pissin in a Mountain Dew bottle and smoking copious amounts of weed.Drinking crappy beer.Not remembering what happened ,but knowing I had a blast when waking the next morning. To be honest,I have better access an amenities now ,But gotta tell Ya I had a lot more carefree fun back then!and great memories.So I ask you ,who is really looking back at who with envy? It's all perspective isn't it?
True I've also had nosebleed seats and thrilled but do also realize many will never be able to buy 600 tickets. Also like you, will sacrifice other things to get that primo PJ experience. Sometimes putting in long hours.
I'm jonesing now. HA.
I have never and will never support the scalping industry (though I can afford to). I've been front row at Pearl Jam and several other shows by being at Ticketmaster quickly, or by speaking with fantastic people who have given me the opportunity at face value. I've also sold tickets to shows in the front row at face value, and will not ask for above face.
Also don't scalp. Referring to VIP festival tickets at festivals.
Ben,I think perceived value has to be factored in. Example-I personally will splurge on better seats or vip,etc at a show or concert.That is what I enjoy so I put a higher value on it.You may feel Im wasting my money or that activity has no value to you and you view it as a waste.It really is to personal to chery pick. And I don't think there is guilt as long an individual can or is benevolent in other ways or in other forms.(Time,volunteering,fund raising etc)
Ed " people in the front look at the people in the rear, people in the front look at the people in the rear".
Like you, have splurged on premium tickets. Obviously as we were feet from each other at such an event. Have though looked at those less fortunate and realized how lucky I was.
As to charitable causes and volunteering, drive is from ones personal gains rather than the perceived beneficiary. Not a bad thing and people are helped but giving is a selfish act.
Cal,I was trying to find the morning quote you referenced in the other thread,and I'm assuming this is it.
So standing in our high perch big dollar vip seats looking back at the rest of the house,of course we feel lucky,and blessed(Espescially at a PJ show) But I don't see those behind us as less fortunate.I don't look at it like that at all. I see myself at a concert in my teens or 20s.You know Sabbath,Van Halen,Maiden,Nugent,Aerosmith,etc .Ive been in those seats,for hundreds of shows I've crammed in a car with 8 people,pissin in a Mountain Dew bottle and smoking copious amounts of weed.Drinking crappy beer.Not remembering what happened ,but knowing I had a blast when waking the next morning. To be honest,I have better access an amenities now ,But gotta tell Ya I had a lot more carefree fun back then!and great memories.So I ask you ,who is really looking back at who with envy? It's all perspective isn't it?
True I've also had nosebleed seats and thrilled but do also realize many will never be able to buy 600 tickets. Also like you, will sacrifice other things to get that primo PJ experience. Sometimes putting in long hours.
I'm jonesing now. HA.
I have never and will never support the scalping industry (though I can afford to). I've been front row at Pearl Jam and several other shows by being at Ticketmaster quickly, or by speaking with fantastic people who have given me the opportunity at face value. I've also sold tickets to shows in the front row at face value, and will not ask for above face.
Also don't scalp. Referring to VIP festival tickets at festivals.
Gotcha, my bad!
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
You all owe it to yourselves to go to Europe or SA for a show! You get the festival experience but it's all PJ! They did an inner circle pit at most of the shows...we walked in .5 to 1 hr before show and were 10th row on Mike's side at Milan, 7th at Trieste, and 5th at Vienna. Of course the setlists and energy were comparable every night to the best of the recent American tours.
Had front row/rail in front of MM both nights at the Borgata in 05,Was also up front for Deluna fest which was insane having my feet in the sand,a full moon,beer(s) in hand,good company and PJ playing on the fucking beach.Yeah ED brought his A game to that show.Great night other then nonsense in the Vip holding area w10c issues
You all owe it to yourselves to go to Europe or SA for a show! You get the festival experience but it's all PJ! They did an inner circle pit at most of the shows...we walked in .5 to 1 hr before show and were 10th row on Mike's side at Milan, 7th at Trieste, and 5th at Vienna. Of course the setlists and energy were comparable every night to the best of the recent American tours.
Ben,I think perceived value has to be factored in. Example-I personally will splurge on better seats or vip,etc at a show or concert.That is what I enjoy so I put a higher value on it.You may feel Im wasting my money or that activity has no value to you and you view it as a waste.It really is to personal to chery pick. And I don't think there is guilt as long an individual can or is benevolent in other ways or in other forms.(Time,volunteering,fund raising etc)
Ed " people in the front look at the people in the rear, people in the front look at the people in the rear".
Like you, have splurged on premium tickets. Obviously as we were feet from each other at such an event. Have though looked at those less fortunate and realized how lucky I was.
As to charitable causes and volunteering, drive is from ones personal gains rather than the perceived beneficiary. Not a bad thing and people are helped but giving is a selfish act.
Cal,I was trying to find the morning quote you referenced in the other thread,and I'm assuming this is it.
So standing in our high perch big dollar vip seats looking back at the rest of the house,of course we feel lucky,and blessed(Espescially at a PJ show) But I don't see those behind us as less fortunate.I don't look at it like that at all. I see myself at a concert in my teens or 20s.You know Sabbath,Van Halen,Maiden,Nugent,Aerosmith,etc .Ive been in those seats,for hundreds of shows I've crammed in a car with 8 people,pissin in a Mountain Dew bottle and smoking copious amounts of weed.Drinking crappy beer.Not remembering what happened ,but knowing I had a blast when waking the next morning. To be honest,I have better access an amenities now ,But gotta tell Ya I had a lot more carefree fun back then!and great memories.So I ask you ,who is really looking back at who with envy? It's all perspective isn't it?
True I've also had nosebleed seats and thrilled but do also realize many will never be able to buy 600 tickets. Also like you, will sacrifice other things to get that primo PJ experience. Sometimes putting in long hours.
If Canada gets a GA tour, I hope I can rock the rail with some or all of you fine folks! I've got about 400 square feet of floor space for the first takers
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
If Canada gets a GA tour, I hope I can rock the rail with some or all of you fine folks! I've got about 400 square feet of floor space for the first takers
ben,your young and have energy.you Hold our spots and ill show up after gates open but i will buy the drinks and food all night. Id love to rock a Canada show.
If Canada gets a GA tour, I hope I can rock the rail with some or all of you fine folks! I've got about 400 square feet of floor space for the first takers
ben,your young and have energy.you Hold our spots and ill show up after gates open but i will buy the drinks and food all night. Id love to rock a Canada show.
I'm only young in terms of true age... And I only have energy when the music gives it to me! That said - deal. Combustibles on me, though I'm vaporizer-exclusive these days.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
If Canada gets a GA tour, I hope I can rock the rail with some or all of you fine folks! I've got about 400 square feet of floor space for the first takers
ben,your young and have energy.you Hold our spots and ill show up after gates open but i will buy the drinks and food all night. Id love to rock a Canada show.
I'm only young in terms of true age... And I only have energy when the music gives it to me! That said - deal. Combustibles on me, though I'm vaporizer-exclusive these days.
you mary jane elitist snob! IM old school.IM thinking a Cheech and Chongs size splief would be proper.
on second thought,I usually don't smoke at shows and prefer my couch for that activity.so vaporize all you want,i will drink and then drink some more.cheers
If Canada gets a GA tour, I hope I can rock the rail with some or all of you fine folks! I've got about 400 square feet of floor space for the first takers
ben,your young and have energy.you Hold our spots and ill show up after gates open but i will buy the drinks and food all night. Id love to rock a Canada show.
I'm only young in terms of true age... And I only have energy when the music gives it to me! That said - deal. Combustibles on me, though I'm vaporizer-exclusive these days.
you mary jane elitist snob! IM old school.IM thinking a Cheech and Chongs size splief would be proper.
Actually it's to do with my throat... I play guitar and sing - singing is a nightmare when you smoke regularly, I don't know how these guys do it!
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Had front row/rail in front of MM both nights at the Borgata in 05,Was also up front for Deluna fest which was insane having my feet in the sand,a full moon,beer(s) in hand,good company and PJ playing on the fucking beach.Yeah ED brought his A game to that show.Great night other then nonsense in the Vip holding area w10c issues
Rode the rails in Brooklyn night II as well, also right in front of MM!
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
This pleases me on a sat morning. What kinda band you in Ben ? Where you guys play and what kinda jams? I figure ur OP so it's ok to sidetrack here.lol
Comments
Most everything we do is a selfish act: even if we ignore the 'recognition from society' elements, I'm convinced that to do good for others eventually comes around to benefit us personally. Call it karma if you'd like, but I think to enable others to self-actualize on their dreams through the honing and realization of their skills, civilization can progress in ways it couldn't otherwise. As I've said elsewhere - how many people with brainpower equivalent of Steve Jobs/Albert Einstein/Nicolas Tesla/Elon Musk have lived and died toiling fields without a chance of having an education or even a way to communicate with the world at large?
There are ways to minimize the selfishness of our charitable ventures. For the 'recognition from society' element, we can minimize that through giving anonymously. We can also donate our time (something with an opportunity cost to the rich and poor, unlike money).
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
All giving regardless of public knowledge is for ones own benefit. Yes this is not palatable and one may want to believe otherwise but it is what it is.
This sums up how I feel about charitable acts, and altruism:
"Altruistic acts are self-interested, if not because they relieve anxiety, then perhaps because they lead to pleasant feelings of pride and satisfaction; the expectation of honor or reciprocation; or the greater likelihood of a place in heaven; and even if neither of the above, then at least because they relieve unpleasant feelings such as the guilt or shame of not having acted at all."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201203/does-true-altruism-exist
That doesn't mean that we can't be altruistic, or that we shouldn't be charitable, but it is a recognition that all charitable acts have some degree of selfishness, even if it is a secondary motivation.
It's pretty cool to see someone benefit or just smile from both the inconsequential and meaningful. If I mentally pat myself on the back a bit in the process, no harm done!
Usually though, it's more of a "just the right thing to do" type of situation.
Maybe it spurs others to extend themselves as well? The actions of others have definitely inspired me.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Had a gentleman struggling to get I to his truck last week locked himself out. I wanted to go home bad but I hesitated and went over and helped him. He shook my hand and it felt great. I know I helped him but do t try to tell myself I did it for him. Was all for me as if I didn't help I would of felt bad. When I helped I felt good. I maintain that it's never selfless in any way.
Why it sucks so bad seeing a company using veterans to promote their brand. Sick.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
So standing in our high perch big dollar vip seats looking back at the rest of the house,of course we feel lucky,and blessed(Espescially at a PJ show) But I don't see those behind us as less fortunate.I don't look at it like that at all.
I see myself at a concert in my teens or 20s.You know Sabbath,Van Halen,Maiden,Nugent,Aerosmith,etc .Ive been in those seats,for hundreds of shows
I've crammed in a car with 8 people,pissin in a Mountain Dew bottle and smoking copious amounts of weed.Drinking crappy beer.Not remembering what happened ,but knowing I had a blast when waking the next morning.
To be honest,I have better access an amenities now ,But gotta tell Ya I had a lot more carefree fun back then!and great memories.So I ask you ,who is really looking back at who with envy? It's all perspective isn't it?
I won't feel guilty though bringing smiles or happiness to other.I love the way it makes me feel.It completes something inside,like it makes me feel more connected to those around me.Its win/Win.
I think it's only truly selfish if you expect something in return.
This morning when leaving for work, my neighbor - who has lived slightly across the hall since I moved in almost 24 years ago - was returning from walking her dog. She looked awful, stopped to lean against the wall. When I asked if she was alright, she told me she's been sick and having heart issues. I offered to help her back to her place (declined), and to walk her dog if needed (accepted). Didn't even think twice about it; the thoughts and words just came, and I'm glad they did. She has friends with dogs in the building who could certainly assist with this as well, but knowing if the pooch needs to be walked quickly, she can just ask us.
And upon further reflection, I actually feel weird posting this, as it's not with the intent of receiving kudos but more to illustrate that sometimes we just DO things without second thought, simply driven by conscience that wouldn't allow otherwise.
I'm jonesing now. HA.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Id love to rock a Canada show.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
IM old school.IM thinking a Cheech and Chongs size splief would be proper.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
What kinda band you in Ben ? Where you guys play and what kinda jams?
I figure ur OP so it's ok to sidetrack here.lol