The TPP

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Comments

  • riotgrl
    riotgrl LOUISVILLE Posts: 1,895
    Manufacturing jobs might stay in the US if Americans were willing to pay higher prices. Are you willing to pay $20 for the t-shirt for which you are currently paying $10?

    Another issue is that Americans aren't updating their skills to retain jobs within the manufacturing industry. Perhaps if we actually trained our kids for areas other than college we could retain these jobs (and probably at only slightly higher prices to the consumer). Unfortunately, vocational education has become a dirty word and few schools offer training and apprenticeships which they should IMO.

    washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-manufacturing-sees-shortage-of-skilled-factory-workers/2012/02/17/gIQAo0MLOR_story.html
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    I routinely pay more for made in USA stuff. I used to love getting my PJ shirts cause they were made here.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    riotgrl said:

    Manufacturing jobs might stay in the US if Americans were willing to pay higher prices. Are you willing to pay $20 for the t-shirt for which you are currently paying $10?

    Another issue is that Americans aren't updating their skills to retain jobs within the manufacturing industry. Perhaps if we actually trained our kids for areas other than college we could retain these jobs (and probably at only slightly higher prices to the consumer). Unfortunately, vocational education has become a dirty word and few schools offer training and apprenticeships which they should IMO.

    washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-manufacturing-sees-shortage-of-skilled-factory-workers/2012/02/17/gIQAo0MLOR_story.html

    That is a minor issue that is used by the manufacturing industry to distract and cover the fact that companies are investing their capital in places with cheap labor forces. If they truly wanted skilled laborers they would train them like they did in decades past. Too expensive, cheaper to hire a 25 can't/hour worker in BBangladesh and deal with inferior products from his mistakes until he gets the hang of it.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • riotgrl
    riotgrl LOUISVILLE Posts: 1,895
    rgambs said:

    riotgrl said:

    Manufacturing jobs might stay in the US if Americans were willing to pay higher prices. Are you willing to pay $20 for the t-shirt for which you are currently paying $10?

    Another issue is that Americans aren't updating their skills to retain jobs within the manufacturing industry. Perhaps if we actually trained our kids for areas other than college we could retain these jobs (and probably at only slightly higher prices to the consumer). Unfortunately, vocational education has become a dirty word and few schools offer training and apprenticeships which they should IMO.

    washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-manufacturing-sees-shortage-of-skilled-factory-workers/2012/02/17/gIQAo0MLOR_story.html

    That is a minor issue that is used by the manufacturing industry to distract and cover the fact that companies are investing their capital in places with cheap labor forces. If they truly wanted skilled laborers they would train them like they did in decades past. Too expensive, cheaper to hire a 25 can't/hour worker in BBangladesh and deal with inferior products from his mistakes until he gets the hang of it.
    That's true for some unskilled or low skilled positions. But most of this issue is because they need people that are highly skilled (robotics, in particular). That is a skill you need to get on your own not one that can be taught on the job. We are primarily outsourcing jobs to places like Bangladesh that are unskilled. The American work force is too skilled and too educated for those jobs.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited June 2015
    riotgrl said:

    rgambs said:

    riotgrl said:

    Manufacturing jobs might stay in the US if Americans were willing to pay higher prices. Are you willing to pay $20 for the t-shirt for which you are currently paying $10?

    Another issue is that Americans aren't updating their skills to retain jobs within the manufacturing industry. Perhaps if we actually trained our kids for areas other than college we could retain these jobs (and probably at only slightly higher prices to the consumer). Unfortunately, vocational education has become a dirty word and few schools offer training and apprenticeships which they should IMO.

    washingtonpost.com/business/economy/us-manufacturing-sees-shortage-of-skilled-factory-workers/2012/02/17/gIQAo0MLOR_story.html

    That is a minor issue that is used by the manufacturing industry to distract and cover the fact that companies are investing their capital in places with cheap labor forces. If they truly wanted skilled laborers they would train them like they did in decades past. Too expensive, cheaper to hire a 25 can't/hour worker in BBangladesh and deal with inferior products from his mistakes until he gets the hang of it.
    That's true for some unskilled or low skilled positions. But most of this issue is because they need people that are highly skilled (robotics, in particular). That is a skill you need to get on your own not one that can be taught on the job. We are primarily outsourcing jobs to places like Bangladesh that are unskilled. The American work force is too skilled and too educated for those jobs.
    That's what they want you to think. I've run robots at 2 different jobs in manufacturing, no big deal. They run off programs and the programmers and robot builders are tech jobs not manufacturing jobs. The American workforce isn't too skilled or educated, people still stack and package at plants all over the US, for good wages. I was one of them.
    Also, there is NO job that can't be learned on the job (excluding the highest levels of the hard sciences).
    Experience is the only thing that matters.
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,723
    And its not just manufacturing:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?_r=0

    Fuck Disney.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,723
    And its not just Disney:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/23/business/profitable-caterpillar-pushes-workers-for-steep-cuts.html

    $4.9 billion in profit. $39,000 in profit per employee. Demand and get a six year wage freeze. Corporate America and their G-R-E-E-D. Now, how is that good for the economy?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,440
    it is looking like the dems are going to revolt and oppose obama on this one. one can only hope, right?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,675
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    it is looking like the dems are going to revolt and oppose obama on this one. one can only hope, right?

    Good for those rebellious dems in the House!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/12/obama-trade-deal_n_7569874.html

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,723
    brianlux said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    it is looking like the dems are going to revolt and oppose obama on this one. one can only hope, right?

    Good for those rebellious dems in the House!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/12/obama-trade-deal_n_7569874.html

    Here here! Twisted up in knots that republican majority is. I think Obama is laughing quietly behind the curtain.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,440
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    brianlux said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    it is looking like the dems are going to revolt and oppose obama on this one. one can only hope, right?

    Good for those rebellious dems in the House!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/12/obama-trade-deal_n_7569874.html

    Here here! Twisted up in knots that republican majority is. I think Obama is laughing quietly behind the curtain.
    i think obama really wanted this. he made another appeal to democratic leaders today.

    i am glad somebody finally sided with labor instead of selling the american worker down the river.

    the good news is, if antilabor people like scott walker were in office, this would have been a defeat for him too.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    serious question Gimmi, wow will this affect the current movement of corp's moving job's out of the country ? the company I work for has plants all over the world and are closing the plant I work at, some of the work has gone to Poland already.

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