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Help Iran Go Nuclear

Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,025
in A Moving Train
I'm not afraid of Iran having the Bomb because they're not a death cult. No more than Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea, China, France, Great Britain, South Africa, when they had capability, or the United States is. Mutually Assured Destruction might have been the most ingenious defense strategy ever conceived.
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Comments

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    I'm not afraid of Iran having the Bomb because they're not a death cult. No more than Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea, China, France, Great Britain, South Africa, when they had capability, or the United States is. Mutually Assured Destruction might have been the most ingenious defense strategy ever conceived.

    Oh shit, you just made BS have a shit fit. His bloods boiling beyond belief now. Hahaha
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    lol....you know why they don't want Iran to have a bomb? Not because they'll use it...because it takes military strikes against them off the table.

    Where has all the axis of evil talk re South Korea gone since they got the bomb?

    ..the Imperialist strategies of the West's capitalist cabals force nations to seek the bomb as their only means of avoiding subjugation by neoliberal economics and neocon militarism. Pretty basic premise of geo politics over the last 3/4 century. Instead we call them the threat and ignore our role in this proliferation. Damned if our media can't sell the same pile of BS to generations of sops for 75 flipping years and counting. new enemies, always the same story:

    "the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country"
    Goring.

    We learned from these people; found ways to expand our empire covertly, to give people the illusion of choice, and to keep them paralyzed against change thru fear.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    I CANT wait to see BS response. If he has one.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    I'm not afraid of Iran having the Bomb because they're not a death cult. No more than Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea, China, France, Great Britain, South Africa, when they had capability, or the United States is. Mutually Assured Destruction might have been the most ingenious defense strategy ever conceived.

    Nice post and thread.
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,171
    I go the other way. I'm afraid of any country on that list having nuclear weapons because I'm scared nuclear weapons exist at all. Adding Iran to the club won't make anything better. You don't have to consider their regime a "death cult" to be concerned about an Iranian nuke.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    JimmyV said:

    I go the other way. I'm afraid of any country on that list having nuclear weapons because I'm scared nuclear weapons exist at all. Adding Iran to the club won't make anything better. You don't have to consider their regime a "death cult" to be concerned about an Iranian nuke.

    This.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    JimmyV said:

    I go the other way. I'm afraid of any country on that list having nuclear weapons because I'm scared nuclear weapons exist at all. Adding Iran to the club won't make anything better. You don't have to consider their regime a "death cult" to be concerned about an Iranian nuke.

    Yes.

    If Canada got it in their heads that we needed nuclear weapons to guard our water from California, I'd be adamantly opposed.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    edited April 2015
    JimmyV said:

    I go the other way. I'm afraid of any country on that list having nuclear weapons because I'm scared nuclear weapons exist at all. Adding Iran to the club won't make anything better. You don't have to consider their regime a "death cult" to be concerned about an Iranian nuke.

    Mite not make things better for say the U.S. but I can only imagine makes the lives of Iranians a little less stressful hearing day after day that someone wants to bomb and destroy you. Someone said it already, ever since NK got some, no more talk of bombing them anymore. Can anyone imagine growing up in Iran and hearing all your life that "bomb Iran, we must bomb iran."

    Nukes fucken suck and to know that so many countries have them is a fucken shame. To know countries need them for survival is fucken crazy. That's the world we live in now.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    badbrains said:

    JimmyV said:

    I go the other way. I'm afraid of any country on that list having nuclear weapons because I'm scared nuclear weapons exist at all. Adding Iran to the club won't make anything better. You don't have to consider their regime a "death cult" to be concerned about an Iranian nuke.

    Mite not make things better for say the U.S. but I can only imagine makes the lives of Iranians a little less stressful hearing day after day that someone wants to bomb and destroy you. Someone said it already, ever since NK got some, no more talk of bombing them anymore. Can anyone imagine growing up in Iran and hearing all your life that "bomb Iran, we must bomb iran."

    Nukes fucken suck and to know that so many countries have them is a fucken shame. To know countries need them for survival is fucken crazy. That's the world we live in now.
    Realistically, are we on the downward spiral... or are we surging upwards?

    Does such a move by Iran make the world better or worse (motivations aside)?

    At some point, the world might need to consider itself a global community if we are ever to stand a chance. Who initiates these steps? How can trust be established so that we can forge bonds between people on this planet versus people between imaginary lines?

    Given our history and our current reality... I'm not sure either of the above is possible. If I am correct... where does that leave us?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,594
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    badbrains said:

    JimmyV said:

    I go the other way. I'm afraid of any country on that list having nuclear weapons because I'm scared nuclear weapons exist at all. Adding Iran to the club won't make anything better. You don't have to consider their regime a "death cult" to be concerned about an Iranian nuke.

    Mite not make things better for say the U.S. but I can only imagine makes the lives of Iranians a little less stressful hearing day after day that someone wants to bomb and destroy you. Someone said it already, ever since NK got some, no more talk of bombing them anymore. Can anyone imagine growing up in Iran and hearing all your life that "bomb Iran, we must bomb iran."

    Nukes fucken suck and to know that so many countries have them is a fucken shame. To know countries need them for survival is fucken crazy. That's the world we live in now.
    Realistically, are we on the downward spiral... or are we surging upwards?

    Does such a move by Iran make the world better or worse (motivations aside)?

    At some point, the world might need to consider itself a global community if we are ever to stand a chance. Who initiates these steps? How can trust be established so that we can forge bonds between people on this planet versus people between imaginary lines?

    Given our history and our current reality... I'm not sure either of the above is possible. If I am correct... where does that leave us?
    Killing time til the inevitable happens. Thats all we do anyway, with or without nukes. Each individual has a finite time on this earth. All we are really talking about then is avoidance of one means of dying.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,171
    badbrains said:

    JimmyV said:

    I go the other way. I'm afraid of any country on that list having nuclear weapons because I'm scared nuclear weapons exist at all. Adding Iran to the club won't make anything better. You don't have to consider their regime a "death cult" to be concerned about an Iranian nuke.

    Mite not make things better for say the U.S. but I can only imagine makes the lives of Iranians a little less stressful hearing day after day that someone wants to bomb and destroy you. Someone said it already, ever since NK got some, no more talk of bombing them anymore. Can anyone imagine growing up in Iran and hearing all your life that "bomb Iran, we must bomb iran."

    Nukes fucken suck and to know that so many countries have them is a fucken shame. To know countries need them for survival is fucken crazy. That's the world we live in now.
    But don't those same Iranians hear, over and over, "Death to America" and "America is the Great Satan"? Has that changed? Will Iran getting a nuke change that?

    We didn't invent nuclear weapons and neither did our parents. We are two generations removed from the creation and deployment of the atom bomb. We've seen its horrors, we know what it can do, both at the time of explosion and for years after. Knowing this, shouldn't we be trying to prevent anyone and everyone from acquiring this capability?

    Israel, Pakistan, North Korea, now Iran...where does it stop? Is the world safer with each new bomb or less safe? I have a hard time believing it is. Are Iranians safer? Maybe...but even that is no sure thing. The more bombs we have, the more fingers we have on buttons. Only a matter of time until another one goes off, M.A.D. or no.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    I don't want any country to have nukes but when people get wigged out over a small country having an A-Bomb or two I suggest they look at the number of bombs the US, Russia, China etc. have (posted elsewhere but easy to find the numbers) and think "You're worried about ONE BOMB?"

    I think it's time for another "No Nukes" concert. Who's in?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,171
    brianlux said:

    I don't want any country to have nukes but when people get wigged out over a small country having an A-Bomb or two I suggest they look at the number of bombs the US, Russia, China etc. have (posted elsewhere but easy to find the numbers) and think "You're worried about ONE BOMB?"

    I think it's time for another "No Nukes" concert. Who's in?

    I'm more worried about one more finger on the button than I am about one more bomb.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    edited April 2015
    JimmyV said:

    brianlux said:

    I don't want any country to have nukes but when people get wigged out over a small country having an A-Bomb or two I suggest they look at the number of bombs the US, Russia, China etc. have (posted elsewhere but easy to find the numbers) and think "You're worried about ONE BOMB?"

    I think it's time for another "No Nukes" concert. Who's in?

    I'm more worried about one more finger on the button than I am about one more bomb.

    I lived through the bullshit 50's "duck and cover" indoctrination such that I don't seem to worry about nukes anymore. Man, talk about denial. I know the danger is ever present. It's so much nonsense that we humans still keep these things around, armed and ready to annihilate our species (and a ton of others). I'm serious, I wish someone would start another no-nukes movement. Is there one I don't know about?

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • AafkeAafke Posts: 1,219
    brianlux said:

    JimmyV said:

    brianlux said:

    I don't want any country to have nukes but when people get wigged out over a small country having an A-Bomb or two I suggest they look at the number of bombs the US, Russia, China etc. have (posted elsewhere but easy to find the numbers) and think "You're worried about ONE BOMB?"

    I think it's time for another "No Nukes" concert. Who's in?

    I'm more worried about one more finger on the button than I am about one more bomb.

    I lived through the bullshit 50's "duck and cover" indoctrination such that I don't seem to worry about nukes anymore. Man, talk about denial. I know the danger is ever present. It's so much nonsense that we humans still keep these things around, armed and ready to annihilate our species (and a ton of others). I'm serious, I wish someone would start another no-nukes movement. Is there one I don't know about?

    Maybe if there isn't a no-nuke movement active at the moment, we can start it ourselves. It has to start somewhere isn't it? You can count me in for sure!!!
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Making the "we have them, why shouldn't they" argument on nukes is like saying, "Australia has lots of poisonous snakes, why shouldn't we"?

    Less nukes and poisonous snakes makes the world a better place.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Jason P said:

    Making the "we have them, why shouldn't they" argument on nukes is like saying, "Australia has lots of poisonous snakes, why shouldn't we"?

    Less nukes and poisonous snakes makes the world a better place.

    Ah love poisonous snakes. Incredible creatures. Do agree with your point.
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  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    JimmyV said:

    I go the other way. I'm afraid of any country on that list having nuclear weapons because I'm scared nuclear weapons exist at all. Adding Iran to the club won't make anything better. You don't have to consider their regime a "death cult" to be concerned about an Iranian nuke.

    I agree. But we need to balance our rhetoric with calls for nuclear nations to stop expansionist policy, and with calls for disarmament. As mentioned, it is our expansionist policies that drive the desire for the weapons in the first place. You are saying you don't want any nukes, but I don't see a call for the US to dismantle their entire stockpile. Do you think it would be a realistic request? Probably not, right? So on what basis do we determine who can or cannot have them when we say it's not realistic for us to NOT have them?

    Again, I'm not advocating for Iran to have a bomb....but we need perspective and consistency in our evaluations.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    callen said:

    Jason P said:

    Making the "we have them, why shouldn't they" argument on nukes is like saying, "Australia has lots of poisonous snakes, why shouldn't we"?

    Less nukes and poisonous snakes makes the world a better place.

    Ah love poisonous snakes. Incredible creatures. Do agree with your point.
    Here's another guy who likes poisonous snakes. What he says at the end of this brief clip is true- he really does like them:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_hzy-jihq4

    Aafke said:

    brianlux said:

    JimmyV said:

    brianlux said:

    I don't want any country to have nukes but when people get wigged out over a small country having an A-Bomb or two I suggest they look at the number of bombs the US, Russia, China etc. have (posted elsewhere but easy to find the numbers) and think "You're worried about ONE BOMB?"

    I think it's time for another "No Nukes" concert. Who's in?

    I'm more worried about one more finger on the button than I am about one more bomb.

    I lived through the bullshit 50's "duck and cover" indoctrination such that I don't seem to worry about nukes anymore. Man, talk about denial. I know the danger is ever present. It's so much nonsense that we humans still keep these things around, armed and ready to annihilate our species (and a ton of others). I'm serious, I wish someone would start another no-nukes movement. Is there one I don't know about?

    Maybe if there isn't a no-nuke movement active at the moment, we can start it ourselves. It has to start somewhere isn't it? You can count me in for sure!!!
    I like that idea!

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,171
    Drowned Out said:

    JimmyV said:

    I go the other way. I'm afraid of any country on that list having nuclear weapons because I'm scared nuclear weapons exist at all. Adding Iran to the club won't make anything better. You don't have to consider their regime a "death cult" to be concerned about an Iranian nuke.

    I agree. But we need to balance our rhetoric with calls for nuclear nations to stop expansionist policy, and with calls for disarmament. As mentioned, it is our expansionist policies that drive the desire for the weapons in the first place. You are saying you don't want any nukes, but I don't see a call for the US to dismantle their entire stockpile. Do you think it would be a realistic request? Probably not, right? So on what basis do we determine who can or cannot have them when we say it's not realistic for us to NOT have them?

    Again, I'm not advocating for Iran to have a bomb....but we need perspective and consistency in our evaluations.
    Balanced rhetoric and calls for disarmament are both well and good, but neither equates to helping Iran go nuclear. That is a bridge too far for me. These weapons exist, and nothing you or I can do will change that. Disarmament is not going to happen. The U.S. has them, and I understand why Iran wants them. That doesn't mean they or anyone else should have them. That you are not advocating for Iran to have a bomb is good. It means, as you said, that we agree.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 30,174
    Hopefully, people realize that Iran had a stable, democratically elected government....way back when....until Britain and our CIA toppled it because Iran wanted too big of a cut on their own oil production.

    "We can't trust them"? Hell, they have no reason to trust US!
    If I had known then what I know now...

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,025
    And after the overthrow, facilitated by the US, they lived 25 years under a brutal dictatorship akin to Saddam Hussein. Remember that evil doer? And folks wonder why the Iranian government is what it is and doing what they're doing.
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  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 30,174
    In my feeble mind, Iran might be able to help us eradicate the true loons i.e. ISIS, etc......but what do I know?
    If I had known then what I know now...

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,025
    Not feeble, quite astute actually.
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  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    I hate poisonous snakes.But I really hate the idiots who keep them as "pets" or use them in religious rituals.fucking idiots.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rr165892 said:

    I hate poisonous snakes.But I really hate the idiots who keep them as "pets" or use them in religious rituals.fucking idiots.

    Kinda funny when they get bit though.

    People. You can only warn them so much.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,025
    Isn't Florida being eaten by snakes?
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  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    imalive said:

    In my feeble mind, Iran might be able to help us eradicate the true loons i.e. ISIS, etc......but what do I know?

    Isn't Isis Iranian supported?
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Last-12-Exit said:

    imalive said:

    In my feeble mind, Iran might be able to help us eradicate the true loons i.e. ISIS, etc......but what do I know?

    Isn't Isis Iranian supported?
    No
  • Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    We are playing both sides now with regards to ISIS and Yemen. The US helped bomb Tikrit Iraq where Iran went after ISIS and we are providing arms to Suadi with their fight in Yemen. Iran supports the Huthi (spelling) in Yemen. What a tangled web we weave, but in the US we care about a pizza place hypothetically not catering a gay wedding.
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