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California has lost its mind

Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
in A Moving Train
A California judge has ordered the tax payers pay for a sex change operation for a convicted 2nd degree murderer. I'm all about treating inmates, but I think this is a slap in the face to the tax payers in California. This inmate has gotten therapy for years, there is no reason the tax payers should have to pay for this.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/03/judge-orders-california-to-pay-for-inmate-sex-change/

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    Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Those of you here from California, are you ok with paying for this?
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    Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    I'm wondering when the first post urging support for this appears?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,283
    That is a fucked up situation I'd vote no on this one , but man I can't even begin to imagine how many times he/she must of gotten abused in prison by the other male inmates ....but still a convicted murderer
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
    You guys crack me up. Anything to start an argument.

    I abstain.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    brianlux said:

    You guys crack me up. Anything to start an argument.

    I abstain.

    Seriously? I'm glad your willing to pay for an unnecessary procedure for a convicted murderer. I sure as hell wouldn't want to.
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
    Last-12-Exit said:

    brianlux said:

    You guys crack me up. Anything to start an argument.

    I abstain.

    Seriously? I'm glad your willing to pay for an unnecessary procedure for a convicted murderer. I sure as hell wouldn't want to.
    I didn't say that. I said "I abstain" not because I agree or disagree with the state's ruling but because I object to the comments made here already that merely intend to provoke an argument rather than instigate a discussion. And because I already abstained, I gave up my right to voice my opinion on the matter. I'll catch up with you guys elsewhere.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    The Waiting Trophy ManThe Waiting Trophy Man Niagara region, Ontario, Canada Posts: 12,158
    Yeah I don't know why taxpayers are being forced to pay for the operation. He shouldn't be denied his right to sex reassignment surgery, but he should pay for it himself. If he was not in jail would it still be covered by taxpayers? One hundred percent? Or is it only because he's in jail?
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
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    hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
    Last-12-Exit said:

    Those of you here from California, are you ok with paying for this?

    Nope, not cool with anyone paying for this but the person seeking it out.

    (and for what it's worth, don't think you were instigating anything)
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    The Waiting Trophy ManThe Waiting Trophy Man Niagara region, Ontario, Canada Posts: 12,158
    hedonist said:

    Last-12-Exit said:

    Those of you here from California, are you ok with paying for this?

    Nope, not cool with anyone paying for this but the person seeking it out.

    (and for what it's worth, don't think you were instigating anything)
    Yeah I agree. I don't think you were instigating anything.

    As for the murderer who wants a sex change. He's 51 years old. Instead of murdering someone and being jailed, he could have gotten a job and saved up enough money by now to afford his sex reassignment surgery.

    Why on earth would a JUDGE make a ruling that he people of California have to pay for his surgery? This is insane. With all the problems this state has they have to spend $1,000,000 dollars to turn this guy into a woman? Wtf!?
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
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    The Waiting Trophy ManThe Waiting Trophy Man Niagara region, Ontario, Canada Posts: 12,158
    $100,000
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
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    Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    The Waiting Trophy Man said:

    $100,000

    Even if it was $10... how is something like this even considered?

    Ridiculous. And it speaks to how far the pendulum has swung.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,690
    Similar to Chelsey Manning if funds can be raised for this from private sources then it should be allowed, otherwise I have to say no to the state paying for it.
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,515
    edited April 2015
    No free elective surgeries for inmates - that seems like a no brainer to me. So where is the judge coming from?? Because I would say that the judge being crazy or stupid isn't the problem.
    The judge ruled this way because he decided that sex reassignment surgery isn't an elective surgery at all, and that leads to having to say that the state pay for it since the state is obligated to pay for prisoners' nonelective/medically necessary surgeries. So is sex reassignment surgery medically necessary here, keeping in mind that psychiatry is a branch of medicine, and that is not in question? That is the real issue here. It's a debate about mental health and where it stands in medical practice.
    I would really need to know more about the prisoner's condition to say whether I thought this was a good decision or not, and so would all of you.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,152
    this procedure will cost less than it costs to execute just one prisoner. much less. just sayin.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    I wouldn't care if it cost a dollar. It is elective. And he's a prisoner. Any lawyer can get a doctor to testify that this is required for the inmates mental heath. I agree that mental health should be dealt with in the prison system, but this is going to far.

    What this judge is saying that this inmates life will dramatically inprove after this surgery. I don't buy it. But then again, I'm not a doctor. Why not let inmates get nose jobs and face lifts if they are self conscious? You have to draw the line somewhere.
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,515
    edited April 2015
    I just don't think we know enough about the patient to say from this article. We have no idea what his symptoms were. Yes, maybe it wasn't too bad and this would rightly be called an elective surgery. Then again, maybe not. Maybe the prisoner's condition was dire. Maybe he was going absolutely bugshit crazy and was an immediate physical threat to himself and others because of his condition. Or was living in such abject misery to the point where it would be considered cruel and unusual to make him continue on like that. Or yeah, maybe his lawyer fudged it and manipulated the system. No idea. Without that kind of info i don't feel like anyone can say one way or the other if this was a good or a bad decision.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,152
    gender dysphoria is a terrible thing. i don't know what this guy is going through, so i am not gonna judge him or discount what he needs healthwise.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
    If I were to voice my opinion... haha, I know I said I wouldn't... but what PJ_Soul and gimme said makes a lot of sense to me. I wouldn't judge this person based on one fairly brief article, especially a Fox news article. But some of you jumped right on it. That's why it seemed to me like this was just going to be another argument. Can we get some more facts here and discuss intelligently?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    gender dysphoria is a terrible thing. i don't know what this guy is going through, so i am not gonna judge him or discount what he needs healthwise.

    Agreed. But murder is much worse.

    If it was a health related issue where his life depended on it... go ahead... intervene and save the guy (although truthfully, you wouldn't be breaking my heart if you didn't- the guy murdered someone).

    Gender reorientation is not of the 'critical' variety. How we have ever reached the point in society where we would even entertain the idea of this mind blowing. I could think of 10 million things off the top of my head where $100,000 state tax dollars could be spent better.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    I'm not judging this guy. I'm pissed that a judge has set a precedent that it's ok to allow the tax payers to pay for an elective operation for a convicted murderer.
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    rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I can sympathize with the guy, but you gotta draw the line somewhere... When you are hobbling around in pain, your knee replacement is still an elective procedure and the state prob doesn't pay for, nor should they. This guy should have to live with whatever pain he is in, especially if he murdered someone. Unless, of course, he can raise the money and pay for it.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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    Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rgambs said:

    I can sympathize with the guy, but you gotta draw the line somewhere... When you are hobbling around in pain, your knee replacement is still an elective procedure and the state prob doesn't pay for, nor should they. This guy should have to live with whatever pain he is in, especially if he murdered someone. Unless, of course, he can raise the money and pay for it.

    RG teetering on the dark side! LOL.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    The Waiting Trophy ManThe Waiting Trophy Man Niagara region, Ontario, Canada Posts: 12,158
    Yeah let the guy start a website and collect donations from anyone who wants to contribute to his operation. No one should stop him.
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,515
    edited April 2015
    rgambs said:

    I can sympathize with the guy, but you gotta draw the line somewhere... When you are hobbling around in pain, your knee replacement is still an elective procedure and the state prob doesn't pay for, nor should they. This guy should have to live with whatever pain he is in, especially if he murdered someone. Unless, of course, he can raise the money and pay for it.

    But that's my point... maybe it isn't an elective surgery. Maybe it's medically necessary. I din't know if it is or isn't, but I acknowledge that it's possible that it is. And this has nothing to do with feeling zympathy for the guy. It's simply about the legal requirement for the state to provide necessary medical care to prisoners.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    callencallen Posts: 6,388
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    this procedure will cost less than it costs to execute just one prisoner. much less. just sayin.

    Oh but we love us some executions. Televise em sell ad space.
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    Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJ_Soul said:

    rgambs said:

    I can sympathize with the guy, but you gotta draw the line somewhere... When you are hobbling around in pain, your knee replacement is still an elective procedure and the state prob doesn't pay for, nor should they. This guy should have to live with whatever pain he is in, especially if he murdered someone. Unless, of course, he can raise the money and pay for it.

    But that's my point... maybe it isn't an elective surgery. Maybe it's medically necessary. I din't know if it is or isn't, but I acknowledge that it's possible that it is. And this has nothing to do with feeling zympathy for the guy. It's simply about the legal requirement for the state to provide necessary medical care to prisoners.
    I can't think of one legitimate 'necessary' reason. The guy might be undergoing emotional and psychological distress, but isn't every other prisoner for some reason or another?

    Sheer nonsense. It's Canada rubbing off on the US is what this is. This sounds like something we would love to do for a second degree murderer.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    callen said:

    gimmesometruth27 said:

    this procedure will cost less than it costs to execute just one prisoner. much less. just sayin.

    Oh but we love us some executions. Televise em sell ad space.
    Some don't love executions. Some are so enlightened, they love the child murderer. We should all aspire to such heights.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
    Some just love bating their fellow forum members. This is getting old thirty.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    FoxyRedLaFoxyRedLa Lauren / MI Posts: 4,810
    PJ_Soul said:

    I just don't think we know enough about the patient to say from this article. We have no idea what his symptoms were. Yes, maybe it wasn't too bad and this would rightly be called an elective surgery. Then again, maybe not. Maybe the prisoner's condition was dire. Maybe he was going absolutely bugshit crazy and was an immediate physical threat to himself and others because of his condition. Or was living in such abject misery to the point where it would be considered cruel and unusual to make him continue on like that. Or yeah, maybe his lawyer fudged it and manipulated the system. No idea. Without that kind of info i don't feel like anyone can say one way or the other if this was a good or a bad decision.

    I do see what you're putting down here but based on the info you do have, could you form an opinion? You will never get the info you're looking for - just not public knowledge.
    Oh please let it rain today.
    Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
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    Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited April 2015
    brianlux said:

    Some just love bating their fellow forum members. This is getting old thirty.

    Read the post beforehand, Brian. Callen and I have our own little gig going (my response to him was more in fun than anything). If you had any neutrality whatsoever, you would have addressed this to him and his post because... mmhmm (in as best BB Thornton Slingblade impression as I might be able to muster) he threw first.

    I'll tell you what's really getting old though is your incessant need to weigh in on everyone's tact. For future, when making the loud and proud proclamation that 'you're out' because a thread doesn't meet your tastes... then stay out. Don't be a blowhard.
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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