Senate GOP members letter to Iran.......

First , dont they realize this isn't a Bilateral agreement but a Multilateral one bound by International Law once signed?....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/03/09/the-misguided-condescending-letter-from-republican-senators-to-iran/

As first reported by Bloomberg's Josh Rogin, a group of 47 Republican senators signed a letter addressed to "the leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran," warning them not to be too optimistic about ongoing negotiations with the Obama administration over Tehran's nuclear program. It was organized by freshman Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) and advised the Iranian leadership that "anything not approved by Congress is a mere executive agreement."

The letter is brief, and can be read in full here. Republican lawmakers are opposed to the Obama administration's current overtures to Iran, a disagreement that was put into stark relief last week by the polarizing speech delivered by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu before a joint meeting of Congress. This is yet another tactic to scupper a potential deal.

It starts with the patronizing premise that "you may not fully understand our Constitutional system" and goes on to explain, first, that any international treaty will need to be ratified by a two-thirds vote in both chambers of Congress and that, unlike the president of the United States, senators "may serve an unlimited number of 6-year terms." The message to the mullahs: don't get comfortable with any deal, because we're going to scrap it as soon as we can.

On the Lawfare blog, Harvard Law School professor Jack Goldsmith describes the letter as "embarrassing," because it's technically wrong:

The letter states that “the Senate must ratify [a treaty] by a two-thirds vote.” But as the Senate’s own web page makes clear: “The Senate does not ratify treaties. Instead, the Senate takes up a resolution of ratification, by which the Senate formally gives its advice and consent, empowering the president to proceed with ratification” (my emphasis). Or, as this outstanding 2001 CRS Report on the Senate’s role in treaty-making states (at 117): “It is the President who negotiates and ultimately ratifies treaties for the United States, but only if the Senate in the intervening period gives its advice and consent.” Ratification is the formal act of the nation’s consent to be bound by the treaty on the international plane. Senate consent is a necessary but not sufficient condition of treaty ratification for the United States. As the CRS Report notes: “When a treaty to which the Senate has advised and consented … is returned to the President,” he may “simply decide not to ratify the treaty.”

Dan Drezner, writing for Post Everything, adds that the letter may "paradoxically help Obama" by persuading Iran's leaders to hatch a successful bargain now with the United States rather than further down the road after Obama has departed. Some argue that a deal pushed through by the White House will not be that easy to overturn later, especially if it appears to be working.

Whatever its effects in Washington, the letter is almost farcically condescending in word and tone. Iran's leaders are well aware of how the United States works. The country's foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, spent the better part of a decade as the Iranian envoy to the United Nations; like many others in the Iranian cabinet, he was partly educated in the United States.

It reflects the willful ignorance on the part of many hawks in Washington who insist on seeing Iran purely as an irrational actor and a permanent regional threat. As WorldViews discussed earlier, Iran is problematic in many ways, and its regime plays a role in fueling proxy wars in parts of the Middle East. But one can argue that the same is true of Washington's chief Arab ally in the region, Saudi Arabia.

On Monday, Zarif issued a statement through Iran's U.N. mission in New York, saying "the letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy." Zarif also takes the opportunity to play the pedant:

I should bring one important point to the attention of the authors and that is, the world is not the United States, and the conduct of inter-state relations is governed by international law, and not by US domestic law. The authors may not fully understand that in international law, governments represent the entirety of their respective states, are responsible for the conduct of foreign affairs, are required to fulfil the obligations they undertake with other states and may not invoke their internal law as justification for failure to perform their international obligations.

The Obama administration and Israeli critics of Netanyahu seem to believe that it's possible to do business with the government of Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, Zarif's boss. Rouhani prioritized rapprochement with the United States after his surprise election in 2013. The Republican letter echoes the grimacing and stamping of feet of another set of hard-liners opposed to negotiations -- the ones in Iran.

This post was updated to incorporate Zarif's remarks.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
«1

Comments

  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,602
    text of the letter as reported in the WSJ......
    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/03/09/text-of-gop-senators-letter-to-irans-leaders-on-nuclear-talks/

    Dozens of Republican senators wrote an open letter to the leadership of Iran, warning them that any nuclear deal signed between Iran and U.S. President Barack Obama might not last beyond his presidency, without Congress signing off on it as well. Here is the text of the letter.

    An Open Letter to the Leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran:

    It has come to our attention while observing your nuclear negotiations with our government that you may not fully understand our constitutional system. Thus, we are writing to bring to your attention two features of our Constitution — the power to make binding international agreements and the different character of federal offices — which you should seriously consider as negotiations progress.

    First, under our Constitution, while the president negotiates international agreements, Congress plays the significant role of ratifying them. In the case of a treaty, the Senate must ratify it by a two-thirds vote. A so-called congressional-executive agreement requires a majority vote in both the House and the Senate (which, because of procedural rules, effectively means a three-fifths vote in the Senate). Anything not approved by Congress is a mere executive agreement.

    Second, the offices of our Constitution have different characteristics.

    For example, the president may serve only two 4-year terms, whereas senators may serve an unlimited number of 6-year terms. As applied today, for instance, President Obama will leave office in January 2017, while most of us will remain in office well beyond then — perhaps decades.

    What these two constitutional provisions mean is that we will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei. The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time.

    We hope this letter enriches your knowledge of our constitutional system and promotes mutual understanding and clarity as nuclear negotiations progress.

    Sincerely,

    Senator Tom Cotton, R-AR
    Senator Orrin Hatch, R-UT
    Senator Charles Grassley, R-IA
    Senator Mitch McConnell, R-KY
    Senator Richard Shelby, R-AL
    Senator John McCain, R-AZ
    Senator James Inhofe, R-OK
    Senator Pat Roberts, R-KS
    Senator Jeff Sessions, R-AL
    Senator Michael Enzi, R-WY
    Senator Michael Crapo, R-ID
    Senator Lindsey Graham, R-SC
    Senator John Cornyn, R-TX
    Senator Richard Burr, R-NC
    Senator John Thune, R-SD
    Senator Johnny Isakson, R-GA
    Senator David Vitter, R-LA
    Senator John A. Barrasso, R-WY
    Senator Roger Wicker, R-MS
    Senator Jim Risch, R-ID
    Senator Mark Kirk, R-IL
    Senator Roy Blunt, R-MO
    Senator Jerry Moran, R-KS
    Senator Rob Portman, R-OH
    Senator John Boozman, R-AR
    Senator Pat Toomey, R-PA
    Senator John Hoeven, R-ND
    Senator Marco Rubio, R-FL
    Senator Ron Johnson, R-WI
    Senator Rand Paul, R-KY
    Senator Mike Lee, R-UT
    Senator Kelly Ayotte, R-NH
    Senator Dean Heller, R-NV
    Senator Tim Scott, R-SC
    Senator Ted Cruz, R-TX
    Senator Deb Fischer, R-NE
    Senator Shelley Moore Capito, R-WV
    Senator Bill Cassidy, R-LA
    Senator Cory Gardner, R-CO
    Senator James Lankford, R-OK
    Senator Steve Daines, R-MT
    Senator Mike Rounds, R-SD
    Senator David Perdue, R-GA
    Senator Thom Tillis, R-NC
    Senator Joni Ernst, R-IA
    Senator Ben Sasse, R-NE
    Senator Dan Sullivan, R-AK
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Pure politics. Scary but politics.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,602
    see the "idea man" was a freshman senator who should have gotten a smackdown for it. but senoir leadership signed as well, shows what they intend in relation to other things. like how they will "govern"
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Fire all of them
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    mickeyrat said:

    see the "idea man" was a freshman senator who should have gotten a smackdown for it. but senoir leadership signed as well, shows what they intend in relation to other things. like how they will "govern"

    I know the guy who ran his campaign...works for Americans for Prosperity now...Koch brothers bullshit.


    This letter is bullshit. The fact that it is factually innacurate is typical of the party which won't be bothered with facts.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    Just because the minister of foreign affairs in Iran was "partly" educated in the United states, it doesn't mean he understands how the constitution works. He is correct in part however, the letter is nothing but propaganda. But so was Netanyahu coming to the US and speaking to congress. Neither meant or accomplished anything. I do agree with the senators in that any deal that Obama may strike with Iran will more than likely be ignored by the incoming administration.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    Just because the minister of foreign affairs in Iran was "partly" educated in the United states, it doesn't mean he understands how the constitution works. He is correct in part however, the letter is nothing but propaganda. But so was Netanyahu coming to the US and speaking to congress. Neither meant or accomplished anything. I do agree with the senators in that any deal that Obama may strike with Iran will more than likely be ignored by the incoming administration.

    That's assuming the Repugnicants beat the Dimocrats! It would also be a violation of international law, but that never stops a conservative christian right wing republican straight white american man.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    edited March 2015
    badbrains said:

    Fire all of them

    No,no BB.Checks and Balances.
    Whats more troubling is the very steep divide that continues to fester in DC.This kind of Tom foolery just makes the entire country /system look bad.
    Post edited by rr165892 on
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    rr165892 said:

    badbrains said:

    Fire all of them

    No,no BB.Checks and Balances.
    Whats more troubling is the very steep divide that continues to fester in DC.This kind of Tom foolery just makes the entire country /system look bad.
    Tom Cottonry lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    rgambs said:

    rr165892 said:

    badbrains said:

    Fire all of them

    No,no BB.Checks and Balances.
    Whats more troubling is the very steep divide that continues to fester in DC.This kind of Tom foolery just makes the entire country /system look bad.
    Tom Cottonry lol
    You sir are one clever bearded Ohioan.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    ;)

    It's moves like this and nutcases like Limbaugh that are empowering the limp-dick ineffective Dims to gain supporters at a higher rate.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    rgambs said:

    ;)

    It's moves like this and nutcases like Limbaugh that are empowering the limp-dick ineffective Dims to gain supporters at a higher rate.

    Where are you seeing this? I'm seeing more of a lean right,due to admin policy.Both sides are dicksmiths.Idiots all.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    rr165892 said:

    rgambs said:

    ;)

    It's moves like this and nutcases like Limbaugh that are empowering the limp-dick ineffective Dims to gain supporters at a higher rate.

    Where are you seeing this? I'm seeing more of a lean right,due to admin policy.Both sides are dicksmiths.Idiots all.
    Policy is leaning right, thanks to money in politics. But the whoopin' Romney took is indicative of how the future looks. Righties will always get bumps in midterm elections because old people vote more, but in big elections, the country is firmly left leaning .
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • backseatLover12backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited March 2015
    Did 47 U.S. Senators Just Commit Treason By Attempting to Sabotage Iran Deal?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-09/did-47-u-s-senators-just-commit-treason-by-attempting-to-sabotage-iran-deal-
    From the invitation of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to speak in the House of Representatives without first consulting Obama, to the letter sent to Iranian leaders on Monday, the level of distrust between the two parties has reached new levels
    .

    Are we still proud Americans?
    Post edited by backseatLover12 on

  • Iran Letter Backlash Grows As Bernie Sanders Accuses Senate Republicans Of Sabotage
    By: Jason Easley
    Monday, March, 9th, 2015, 6:29 pm


    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) hit Senate Republicans right between the eyes by accusing them of an act sabotage in an attempt to start a new war in Iran.

    In a statement, Sen. Sanders said:

    It appears that for most of my Republican colleagues in the Senate, a war in Afghanistan and a war in Iraq were not enough. They now apparently want a war in Iran as well. President Obama is working with the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Russia and China to try to negotiate a peaceful means to prevent Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. These negotiations must be allowed to continue and, hopefully, will succeed. It is an outrage that my Republican colleagues are trying to sabotage that effort.


    Sen. Sanders’s statement came after White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest accused Senate Republicans of trying to undermine President Obama, “I think the other thing that is notable here is that when you have a letter that is signed by forty-seven senators of the same party being sent to a leader of a foreign country, it raises some legitimate questions about the intent of the letter…It’s surprising to me there are some Republican senators who are seeking to establish a backchannel with hardliners in Iran to undermine an agreement with Iran and the international community.”

    The Republicans have so grossly miscalculated the public reaction to their letter that even Iran’s Foreign Minister called it propaganda. Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif said, “In our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy. It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history.”

    The Senate Republican letter revealed how far they are willing to go in order to sabotage their own government. Republicans may have crossed the line into treasonous territory with their letter, but Sen. Sanders was correct. The letter was a definite act of sabotage.

    Senate Republicans demonstrated that they were unwilling to support this president in foreign or domestic affairs. Republicans went far beyond having a difference of opinion with the president. They are now actively trying to jeopardize the foreign policy of their own country.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,567
    No matter what the GOP party tries to do they allways come out looking like assholes what a bunch of incompetent dick heads everyone of'em ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255

    No matter what the GOP party tries to do they allways come out looking like assholes what a bunch of incompetent dick heads everyone of'em ...

    What's that say about us ass clowns who keep electing these fucktards.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388

    No matter what the GOP party tries to do they allways come out looking like assholes what a bunch of incompetent dick heads everyone of'em ...

    Hey Jose,

    Hope all is well.

    Problem they are pandering to large segment of US population and unfortunately it works!
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    badbrains said:

    No matter what the GOP party tries to do they allways come out looking like assholes what a bunch of incompetent dick heads everyone of'em ...

    What's that say about us ass clowns who keep electing these fucktards.
    Can you please condense your descriptions.AssFucks would have covered it.Lol
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Logan Act for treason
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,567
    callen said:

    No matter what the GOP party tries to do they allways come out looking like assholes what a bunch of incompetent dick heads everyone of'em ...

    Hey Jose,

    Hope all is well.

    Problem they are pandering to large segment of US population and unfortunately it works!
    Hey Bro yeah i hear you that in itself makes you scratch your head .....
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • KatKat Posts: 4,871
    badbrains said:

    Logan Act for treason

    Logan Act
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,602
    Kat said:

    badbrains said:

    Logan Act for treason

    Logan Act
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953
    possible but this was not in private. It was done on Senate letterhead.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat said:

    Kat said:

    badbrains said:

    Logan Act for treason

    Logan Act
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953
    possible but this was not in private. It was done on Senate letterhead.
    Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
    This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

    Where does it say it must be done in private? And Congress certainly didn't get authority...
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,602
    the title of the act?
    18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,602
    edited March 2015
    interesting to be sure, according to Corker as head of the foreign relations committee (who was trying to do this in a bipartisan open way WITHIN the Senate) believes this could have screwed his chance of legislation related to this.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat said:

    the title of the act?
    18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments

    Ok. But was it done to the knowledge of President Obama? Not likely. Was he involved in the letter? No. It's treason.

    This is an alarming thing, I'm pretty shocked more people aren't either reading it, or commenting. This really shows that partisan politics will break this country apart literally. But wait, we live in the greatest country in the world, nothing will tear us apart…
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,602
    make the case. "without authority of the united states." it all hinges on what this section means.imo.

    The Senate, given they can "advise and consent" to things such as these negotiations and whatever deal may be reached, seems to suggest they are within the senates rights within the constitution.

    Personallly I think this was foolhardy and irresponsible. Note the senior leadership signed off too, but not ALL GOP Senators did. 7 I think did not?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • backseatLover12backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited March 2015
    Authority of the United States is not part of an administration or part of Congress or a fraction of the leadership. Authority is all-encompassing, not just one portion. Sheesh.

    And yeah, imagine, that there are actually a few that didn't sign. Shocker. They'll be outcasts in no time.

    This is an act of pure desperation of a party that has sure seen better days. The hatred the GOP feels for Obama is bigger than the idea of Iran having nukes.
    Post edited by backseatLover12 on
  • Biden Rebukes Senate Republicans Over Letter to Iran

    WASHINGTON — The White House has berated Senate Republicans for writing to Iran’s leaders warning them against a nuclear agreement with President Obama, saying their letter skirts the Constitution and sends a dangerous and conflicting message.

    In a lengthy and harshly worded statement released late Monday, Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., a Senate veteran of more than three decades and a former chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said he could recall no other instance in which senators had written to the leaders of another country, “much less a foreign adversary,” to say the president had no authority to strike a deal with them.

    “This letter, in the guise of a constitutional lesson, ignores two centuries of precedent and threatens to undermine the ability of any future American president, whether Democrat or Republican, to negotiate with other nations on behalf of the United States,” Mr. Biden said. “Honorable people can disagree over policy. But this is no way to make America safer or stronger.”

    His statement was the strongest response yet from the White House to an open letter, signed by most Senate Republicans, that was addressed on Monday to “leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran.” The missive, a rare direct congressional intervention into diplomatic negotiations, declared that any agreement without legislative approval could be reversed by the next president “with the stroke of a pen.”

    The letter appeared aimed at unraveling a framework agreement even as American and international negotiators grew close to reaching one. Mr. Obama, working with leaders of five other world powers, argues that the pact would be the best way to keep Iran from obtaining a nuclear bomb.

    But critics from both parties say that such a deal would be a dangerous charade that would leave Iran with the opportunity to eventually build weapons that could be used against Israel or other adversaries. They also argue that such an agreement should have congressional approval.

    Mr. Biden said on Monday that the signers of the letter were working to thwart a diplomatic agreement that was the only viable means by which to restrain Tehran’s nuclear ambitions.

    “The decision to undercut our president and circumvent our constitutional system offends me as a matter of principle,” Mr. Biden said. “As a matter of policy, the letter and its authors have also offered no viable alternative to the diplomatic resolution with Iran that their letter seeks to undermine.”

    “It would be a dangerous mistake to scuttle a peaceful resolution, especially while diplomacy is still underway,” Mr. Biden said.
Sign In or Register to comment.