Better Call Saul WARNING Spoiler Alert

Gern Blansten

The Juggler said:

I sort of forget why they are so hellbent on ruining Hamlin's life

Isn't it revenge for kicking Jimmy out of the firm? And didn't Jimmy fell like they turned his brother against him?  

There is a Kim angle there too.  She hated Hamlin when she worked for him.  He put her in the basement.

MayDay10

What an episode/scene.  Shitballs

Gern Blansten

yeah....crazy shit

tbergs

Fuck. What an ending. 

Merkin Baller

Man... I really liked Nacho's character. 

Part of me is disappointed, Michael Mando was great... but what a way to go. 

I'm trying to recall... what was Mike & Gus' relationship like in Breaking Bad? I would think the way the Nacho situation went down would loom large over their future relationship. 



RE: Kim, Jimmy, Howard etc... every time someone knocks Jimmy, Kim gets more resentful & vengeful. The DA gave them an out for his association  w/ the cartel, and she replied by correcting her about Jimmy's new name. Even Jimmy / Saul seems to be concerned w/ what she's doing. 

The Howard thing IS over the top, and mostly driven by Kim... Jimmy / Saul was ready to abandon it a few times over. 

Indifference71

Merkin Baller said:

Man... I really liked Nacho's character. 

Part of me is disappointed, Michael Mando was great... but what a way to go. 

I'm trying to recall... what was Mike & Gus' relationship like in Breaking Bad? I would think the way the Nacho situation went down would loom large over their future relationship. 



RE: Kim, Jimmy, Howard etc... every time someone knocks Jimmy, Kim gets more resentful & vengeful. The DA gave them an out for his association  w/ the cartel, and she replied by correcting her about Jimmy's new name. Even Jimmy / Saul seems to be concerned w/ what she's doing. 

The Howard thing IS over the top, and mostly driven by Kim... Jimmy / Saul was ready to abandon it a few times over. 

Yeah he was a great character and Michael Mando was outstanding.  Fitting ending for him to protect his father.  What a great scene at the end when he told Hector it was him who put him in the wheelchair.  

Mike and Gus seemed to have a pretty good relationship in BB.  I think BCS is currently 3-4 years behind that timeframe so they obviously had a few years to work with each other.  Feels like the way he handled the Nacho situation would make Gus trust him even more since it saved Gus's ass and avoid a war.

MayDay10

Merkin Baller said:

I'm trying to recall... what was Mike & Gus' relationship like in Breaking Bad? I would think the way the Nacho situation went down would loom large over their future relationship. 

I don't think they really get into too many 1 on 1 interactions/scenes in BB.  You can see that Mike is a very trusted high-level operative in that time-frame.  Mike also appears to be very loyal in season 4 when Walt tried so get him to turn on Gus.  

I think the Nacho situation was tense, but the solution was satisfying for all parties.  Gus got everything he wanted and (apparently) tied up the loose end.  He also saw that Mike's intuition was correct at most junctures.   
Mike's wish for someone 'not in the game' to avoid being punished (Nacho's dad) was granted.  Gus also acknowledged respect for Nacho and Nacho got to end things on his own terms.   I'm sure Mike's character realized there was little other alternative in this situation and they were backed into a corner.  


The Howard thing is something that irked me since last season.  He isnt a character I dislike, I would have preferred they leave him alone. In this show/season, it is kind of an uninteresting plot.  I hope it really ties into the rest of the story perfectly and not just a device to keep Jimmy and Kim busy through these episodes while the Cartel/Gus stuff plays out.

Merkin Baller

I don't refute that Gus probably has more admiration for Mike after the Nacho situation, I guess my question was more intended from Mike's perspective... he didn't like the way Gus was involving Nacho's father.... I'm wondering why Mike doesn't just walk away after this. I guess we'll have to see how the rest of this season plays out. 

RE: Howard - I love his character, and love how Patrick Fabian plays him. The scenes between him & Chuck / Michael McKean were far & away my favorite, and I was legit disappointed when Chuck died... similar to my disappointment w/ Nacho. Great way to go out, I'll just miss watching these characters played by these actors. 


We also still don't know who was following Kim & Jimmy after they pulled away from the Kettlemans' tax company two episodes ago. 

3 episodes in and I'm loving this season. 

mickeyrat

goddamn thats good television.

the shit with saul has ALWAYS been a slow burn. From the beginning.  I think at heart he's just a small time von artist doing shit , in part, because he can.  in a way, he's  the innocent surrounded by vultures.

Merkin Baller

mickeyrat said:

goddamn thats good television.

the shit with saul has ALWAYS been a slow burn. From the beginning.  I think at heart he's just a small time von artist doing shit , in part, because he can.  in a way, he's  the innocent surrounded by vultures.

Agreed... to my point, Kim's dragging Jimmy down, not the other way around. 

He still has some good in his heart, but that's dying. Whereas Kim.... IDK what's in her heart, but man... it's dark. 

eeriepadave

Indifference71 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Man... I really liked Nacho's character. 

Part of me is disappointed, Michael Mando was great... but what a way to go. 

I'm trying to recall... what was Mike & Gus' relationship like in Breaking Bad? I would think the way the Nacho situation went down would loom large over their future relationship. 



RE: Kim, Jimmy, Howard etc... every time someone knocks Jimmy, Kim gets more resentful & vengeful. The DA gave them an out for his association  w/ the cartel, and she replied by correcting her about Jimmy's new name. Even Jimmy / Saul seems to be concerned w/ what she's doing. 

The Howard thing IS over the top, and mostly driven by Kim... Jimmy / Saul was ready to abandon it a few times over. 

Yeah he was a great character and Michael Mando was outstanding.  Fitting ending for him to protect his father.  What a great scene at the end when he told Hector it was him who put him in the wheelchair.  

Mike and Gus seemed to have a pretty good relationship in BB.  I think BCS is currently 3-4 years behind that timeframe so they obviously had a few years to work with each other.  Feels like the way he handled the Nacho situation would make Gus trust him even more since it saved Gus's ass and avoid a war.

He was my favorite character along with Mike., I wanted his character to stay around longer but deep down i knew he was going to be a goner sometime this season.

tbergs

The Nacho ending was well done. The full circle on that opening scene where the piece of glass was exposed by the rain with the symbolism of the flower among the brown dry lifelessness of the desert. He then took the decision out of everyone else's hands after gloating about what he'd done. He didn't let Mike get exposed and blow his cover, which could have been an issue for future operations. The Salamanca's had to resort to letting Hector shoot his pistol at an already dead body after carrying him over in his wheelchair. Gruesome, pathetic and laughable all-in-one. Great episode and hated to see him go. Has me really concerned for Kim. She's going to end up in a barrel in the desert.

The Juggler

Yep, poor Nacho. But that was a great way to go out.


I still don't get why Jimmy and Kim are so hellbent on destroying Hamlin's life though. lol 
Seems like Kim is more into it than Jimmy at this point....maybe that leads to her downfall. 

mickeyrat

The Juggler said:

Yep, poor Nacho. But that was a great way to go out.


I still don't get why Jimmy and Kim are so hellbent on destroying Hamlin's life though. lol 
Seems like Kim is more into it than Jimmy at this point....maybe that leads to her downfall. 

Sandpiper

tbergs

Read an interview of Michael Mando (Nacho) where he made the point that's his final scene is supported by a bunch of dead man walking. We know that everyone of those characters is killed in BB. Nacho was the only character we didnt know the ending to. Pretty crazy.

Also, the more I thought about it, I think that opening scene with the flower and glass in the rain was set in the future, after Nacho's death. Most likely in the Gene timeline. Not sure if there is significance to that.

Also read somewhere about the significance of the color blue and what it means in relation to deaths of characters in the BCS and BB universe.

Jumb0

The flower grew where Nacho died

mace1229

I didn’t like the way Nacho went out. I get he figured he was a dead man anyway and he was trying to protect his dad. But still didn’t like it. He also died protecting everyone who screwed him over and tried to kill him. Turn the gun on Gus and go out in a blaze of glory or something. Or start a new life somewhere. 

The Juggler

mace1229 said:

I didn’t like the way Nacho went out. I get he figured he was a dead man anyway and he was trying to protect his dad. But still didn’t like it. He also died protecting everyone who screwed him over and tried to kill him. Turn the gun on Gus and go out in a blaze of glory or something. Or start a new life somewhere. 

Well....Breaking Bad would've been a whole hell of a lot different, to say the least, had that happened. lol

eeriepadave

forgot it was on last night (was watching the sixers game). so i just watched it today. Pretty good episode, much slower paced than last week's.

Jumb0

mace1229 said:

I didn’t like the way Nacho went out. I get he figured he was a dead man anyway and he was trying to protect his dad. But still didn’t like it. He also died protecting everyone who screwed him over and tried to kill him. Turn the gun on Gus and go out in a blaze of glory or something. Or start a new life somewhere. 

That was the best possible way for him to go out. If he tries to run, the murder twins catch him and make his death miserable. 
Can't turn on Gus because he gave him his word, through Mike, that his dad was safe. There's also that whole Breaking Bad show that Gus was prominent in.