Freedom Sheep

TalonTedd

badbrains wrote: »

Hard to have an awakening when so many choose to remain asleep. I wish that awakening happens sooner then later.

we'll wake em up BB. there has got to be another way. Oh ya that's right. the Z team.

backseatLover12

Drowned Out wrote: »

Guys, some good thoughts here and comments on perspective...got me thinking about my general skepticism....and ya, I'm pretty much borderline nihilist.

"Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy."

Borderline, because "there's just one word that I still believe in (and?) it's love"

Beyond that...who knows what to believe, esp when it comes to war.

I can tell you I'm pretty sure the US/NATO has never backed Assad. They have, however, backed the 'people revolting' (read: al nusra / al Qaeda / Isis / foreign mercenaries / extremists / etc ), against Assad...and some say they've even backed them against the increasingly Iran-aligned Iraqi government...there is evidence that it was the 'Rebels' that used the chemical weapons, not the Syrian military.....but here's the thing...those governments and their allies are brutal and corrupt and powerdrunk, just like our leaders...there are two sides to every armed conflict, and more often than not, we are only exposed to one side, unless we look for the other side, and investigate causation from all perspectives. There is no other way to know what to believe. More often than not, doing so leaves us even more cynical, skeptical...often frustrated and confused.
You can name virtually any supposed 'humanitarian' military intervention, or any instance of 'preventing slaughter', and I can find you ulterior motive and/or an opposing view that has credence. Because of this, I find it pretty much impossible to support violence under any circumstance.
Anyway, there are well intentioned people in politics but I think the very nature of capitalism pushes them aside for the less morally-inclined.
We're headed toward a fork in the road that leaves options for a mass worldwide intellectual awakening, or hitting reset. Id like to say I have faith in humans, but....I think we're gonna fuck it all up. Sooo...Destroy?

Great post.

Nihilism, I completely disregard. If one is so empty that all values are lost, then that person is one lost being and is in dire need of help before they destroy themselves.

Jason P

Nihilism can be exhausting.

rgambs

“NIHILISTS! I MEAN, SAY WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT THE TENETS OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM, DUDE, AT LEAST IT’S AN ETHOS.”

badbrains

Stop yelling RGambs )

TalonTedd

So I stated earlier that we are in the middle of WW3. This mourning I see on the news that fighting in the Ukraine has intensified dramatically. NATO has decided to send additional troops to countries that border Russia. As a measure to make Russia think twice about expanding hostilities to former Soviet Bloc nations; which will happen. So here is my side to all this. Perhaps if the west wasn't so hasty with encroaching on Russia's previous sphere of influence, with our alliance, markets and money; maybe none of this would have happened at all. Maybe, if we just allowed the ideals of freedom and justice to just grow at there own pace in these nations (that border an adversary armed to the teeth with nukes and drenched in nationalism) and just kept some distance for a while longer, maybe these nations would have grown further into democracy. Instead, we now have a Russia feeling humiliated, marginalized and backed into a corner. There economy is collapsing, and nationalism is rampant (Think Germany in the thirties). This is a real problem. We moved to hastily into their "Buffer zone", war will come of this. This ain't nihilism talking. Its just the way I see it. As an aside, The US has military bases in every time zone on the planet, its an empire that just refuses to stop growing....like cancer. More markets, more money, more more more more all the time. Enjoy the Super Bowl.

callen

Think the Europeans deal with shit in Europe and middle easterners deal with shit in Middle East. Bring our troops home.

TalonTedd

callen wrote: »

Think the Europeans deal with shit in Europe and middle easterners deal with shit in Middle East. Bring our troops home.

I think you may have something there. It could be done under a banner of peace and forgiveness. We say " yeah, your right, its all our fault. So sorry, we are leaving now. we are going back to our fortress N. America and continue to eclipse you in every technological advancement possible and live a life of luxury. Confident in our defenses and strong in our alliance." It sounds arrogant and irresponsible, to say the least. What's the alternative? Oh yeah, WAR!

BS44325

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.”

The words of Edmund Burke pretty much sum up my philosophy.

Also...

"You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you."

Leon Trotsky

Talon is right that dark times are upon us. If we choose to pullback however a far worse evil will fill the void.

Bah

hedonist

First, a big ol' hug Drowned, my fellow possomist

I know BB has referred to A Perfect Circle's "Pet" in this? or another thread. Listening to a live version right now, and fuck me if the lyrics ain't a kick in the head (or mind).

"stay with me...safe and ignorant...

go back to sleep :-$ "

BS44325

This would have fit nicely in the Michael Moore thread. I have no idea where to post it so I'm putting it here.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/31/american-sniper-chris-kyle-defended-against-msnbc-/

badbrains

Tried reading the article, stopped when I saw the quote,"you should all respect and honor him." Sorry, I have no respect for anyone who enjoys killing people and then brags about it. But who the fuck am I? Nobody so it doesn't matter.

TalonTedd

I read the article. It's hard to comment on the man's perspective with anything more than pure speculation; wasn't there. In my own experience I have bitten my tongue with co-workers many times on my true feelings about issues simply to get along. In a kill or be killed environment, I would think that method would be easy to adapt for anyone.

DarthMaeglin

All this nihilism talk got me really thinking about where I might fall on that spectrum, and I guess I'd have to say I'm some sort of utopian. For the purposes of the thread, I'll try and focus more on my view of how the military might fit in and hence hopefully explain more fully why I would proudly call myself a freedom sheep (though being an Aries, I'll go with freedom ram instead, lol).

I guess overall I'd hope we could work towards some sort of quasi-Marxist society devoted towards the pursuit of art and science. However, even if global peace were acheived, I would still see the maintenance of a standing military, under the control of whatever global government might arise. The purposes of this would be several, but first I'll mention the way I see said military being raised: between high school and college/university, I would see all able-bodied people (those incapable could be found other tasks or services to perform) serve for 2 years, and certainly those who would continue their military service wouldn't be dissuaded from doing so (hopefully creating an effective base of career/veteran officers and NCOs to ensure the consistent functioning of the military). I think this would also benefit the individual in ensuring that some degree of self-discipline can be instilled, as well as further indoctrinating the individual to pursue the "greater good" for society as a whole.

Now, as to the roles this standing military would fulfil. The primary purpose would obviously be to ensure the safety and security of all communities (for instance, if a slaughter were to begin, troops could theoretically be quickly deployed from the surrounding countries to put an end to it). Essentially, peacekeeping would be the primary purpose, possibly by, for instance, having Canadians perform their service in Russia, and vice versa, to try and ensure the neutrality of troops being deployed in a given situation.

Another benefit of maintaining armed forces could be the instant availability of a large labour force in the event of natural disasters and the like. It might also help in the mitigation of damage during, say, hurricanes, by having many more bodies on hand to contribute to precautionary measures.

I would still see the military train for combat roles (with the hope such training ultimately proves unnecessary), in part for any peacekeeping operations that might arise, or, as silly as it might sound, as a "just-in-case" for if the aliens do show up and prove hostile (hopefully it wouldn't play out like Mars Attacks!, lol).

So, in a nutshell, that's why (in part) why I'll proudly identify as a freedom sheep, or freedom ram, lol. Then again, I also see a benevolent dictatorship as one of the most effective means of government, lol.

BS44325

It's a shame you refuse to read the article BadBrains. This Iraqi is a freedom sheep speaking to you directly.

TalonTedd

Thanks for your contribution DM. Since a quasi-marxist society has some appeal to you, may I suggest investigating the Z-team. One day.....only hope it won't be to late.

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/

badbrains

BS, thanks for asking, I appreciate it very much

mickeyrat

is this anything like freedom fries?

DarthMaeglin

BS - Interesting article and perspective, think I might have to make a point to catch the movie sometime this week.

Tedd - Thanks for the input, I'll check it out and possibly post my reactions/thoughts here later.

As an (off-topic) aside, I realized cheering for the Seahawks today because of Pearl Jam is no different from Diane on Cheers making her pics based on uniform colours, lol. All the same, screw it, go Seahawks, lol!

BS44325

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/02/accused-via-rail-terrorist-worried-plot-wasnt-going-to-be-deadly-enough-to-justify-work-crown/

The money quote comes a couple sentences down

Raed Jaser, one of two men charged in the alleged 2012 plot, told an undercover FBI agent the train attack would only result in the killing of “a few sheep,” Crown attorney Croft Michaelson told the jury in his opening address Monday.

Instead, Mr. Jaser allegedly wanted to hire a sniper — or learn to shoot a sniper rifle himself — to assassinate Canadian leaders.

“We don’t want the sheep,” Mr. Jaser allegedly told the agent. “We want the wolf. We can get the wolf, brother. We can get the wolf.”

I guess this Freedom sheep term is more clever then we thought