Freedom Sheep

TalonTedd

All those that support Military incursions into foreign lands, Where the root causes of hostilities where supported, armed, trained and puppeteer-ed by the CIA, White house and oil/weapons corporations of America and her cohort..............say Bah! And please lets keep it civil, this is how I see it. I'd love to hear your Bah-spective.

Jason P

Root cause is often found where you want them to be found. I trace the current engagements back to Vladimir Lenin. Maybe even further back. That ball of root cause just keeps on rolling back to the dinosaurs.

TalonTedd

Vlad hum. Maybe expand on that one, if you like

Jason P

Soviet / US proxy wars in and around the region throughout the years mixed with a 2000 year old book and a bunch of organic material from the mesozoic era. Choose your own adventure.

TalonTedd

Just for the record. I subscribe to the ideas of the Zeitgeist movement. I would love to see government based on a NLRBE where those that lead are actually technically capable of understanding the REAL problems of the world.

Jason P

TalonTedd wrote: »

Just for the record. I subscribe to the ideas of the Zeitgeist movement. I would love to see government based on a NLRBE where those that lead are actually technically capable of understanding the REAL problems of the world.

I will have to do research on what zeitgeist is. Wiki just confused me.

TalonTedd

The Z movement is about a world dedicated to providing for all, where the scientific method is the base line for all decision making and all life is respected, preserved and nurtured in a NLRBE (NATURAL LAW, RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY).

DarthMaeglin

TalonTedd wrote: »

All those that support Military incursions into foreign lands, Where the root causes of hostilities where supported, armed, trained and puppeteer-ed by the CIA, White house and oil/weapons corporations of America and her cohort..............say Bah! And please lets keep it civil, this is how I see it. I'd love to hear your Bah-spective.

Ok, I'll happily "Baa," lol.

I do believe there are times for our militaries to become involved in incursions into foreign countries. As I said before in another thread, and focusing on the Canadian end of things, I had no issue with our involvement in Afghanistan (and in fact wanted the Taliban removed/brought under control before 9/11), and am pleased to see us involved in the current operations in Iraq. I'm equally pleased that we weren't involved in the post 9/11 Iraq war, as well as disappointed we pulled out of Afghanistan before the job was completed.

We'd probably find ourselves in agreement about the unevenness of intervening on humanitarian grounds, but when we step in to prevent a slaughter, you'll find me baaing until the cows come home, lol.

TalonTedd

Well said Lord Vadar. Too degobah!.... I can respect your bah-spective on not getting involved in Iraq post 9/11 (a Taliban plot...facilitated by the white house) raise a glass to old man Chretien for that little bit of wisdom. as for the slaughter today in Syria and Iraq involving ISIL. That's a tough one for me. Why didn't we do anything when chemical weapons were used by the Syrian Gov.....oh yeah another dictator backed by the US. His brutality finally caught up to him, the people revolted, they tightened the nose and he dropped the poison. Right, So I guess if we took out old man Bashir or whatever, then ISIL fills the void. So better to go with the evil you know, right. It makes my head spin. I think I'm just gonna sit this out. This thread I started here comes with some regret now, This isn't what I want my time to be about at the 10C. I just posted a song and I am about to post another. That's what I want my time at the 10C to be about....a personal renascence, creativity and yeah, some kooky laughs here and there.....someone once said ignorance is bliss.....well pass me the bible, cloak me in the flag and max the credit cards at Christmas. Ah, I do feel so much better now. Got it, government agencies watching this commie pinko web site. I'm one of the freedom sheep now, bah bah, I'm not the black sheep for our side, yea capitalism and I can't wait for the super bowl, Stanley Cup and any other really important sports distraction...I mean important event out there. No really, I'll submit just let me keep my job and family. Why not stick to my guns you ask? Good question...because Harper is about to push through legislation that would make it a crime to speak favorably about terrorism in social media. and that would make me a criminal don't you see. So hooray for Harper and his divine wisdom. A real God given talent he has for guiding Canada through these trying and terrifying days. Thank you so much mister Prime minister. What a great guy you are! God Bless and bomb em till they die, sir. Amen

DarthMaeglin

Believe me, I think we all wish there were some sort of simple answer to the world we face today, but please, Tedd, don't ever silence yourself, since it's only through these sorts of discussions we have any hope over ever figuring out a solution. For my part I've enjoyed our interactions here.

If you do need a break from some areas here to enjoy 10c, please do so, because in the end, this is a site for a rock band, who we can ALL agree are freakin' awesome! (I'm still adjusting to the latitude that's given here in terms of what can be posted, lol.)

TalonTedd

Amen to that. PJ is my focus here. and maybe you could be right about finding a solution...but I don't think so. These things are out of our league and the game is fixed. I don't think this will end well at all. The world is at war. It fricken world war three and has been for years. I once read a book called " a Thousand years for revenge". This is the mindset of the enemies of freedom, both foreign and domestic. This ain't gonna end anytime soon. Climates changing, rich getting richer, wages drying up. Governments watching, makin a list, everyone armed to the tits. Powder keg man. Makes me sick to my idealist gut. Anyway Bah bah bah, hooray USA, go Canada. God is great. pass the winnie tots Mr. Prime Minister, its game day! Wow, you really make these little pork bellied fat flakies perfectly, Sir.

DarthMaeglin

Here's a humdinger for you that I discovered a few years ago: Revelations talks about the reign of a beast with one foot in the sea, one foot on land, which will last for a thousand years (if I remember right, it's been awhile since I read it). One interpretation that could be drawn is it's a reference to the British Empire, which was well known as a strong naval force (foot in the water) with many colonies (foot on land). A little while after I read that (and saw the possible interpretation), I found out that Windsor castle (the family seat of the current British monarch) has stood for roughly a thousand years now. Silly, likely, but still food for thought in my mind. Then again, another interpretation of the end of Revelation is that the aliens will save some of us, lol.

All that is my roundabout way of saying I agree with you we're likely screwed, and as you said a few strangers debating the issues isn't likely to resolve things. I'm reminded of one of Ed's stage banters where he references Steven Hawking's claim we've only got a little while left as a species, to which Ed asks the crowd if we should act responsibly or just "go fuckin' nuts" (of course the crowd wants to party, lol).

All that said, if you need a break from AMT, I can totally dig that, and wish you nothing but the best, and trust we'll see each other in the other areas here, lol. (I hope I haven't dragged things so off-topic that those who do still want to talk about freedom sheep still will, lol.)

TalonTedd

No, nice ending for the end of endings.

hedonist

Nice thoughts there, Darth.

I'm not an idealist...maybe some mix of someone who's pragmatic and optimistic overall. Horrific humans exist, as do their acts. I know this. But, so too do some - many - live, see, give, with pureness and generosity.

Now if you'll excuse me, a freshly-packed bowl and retro-episode of Dexter await me O:-)

This thread has many branches of possibility, by the way. Cheers to the Talon man.

Drowned Out

Guys, some good thoughts here and comments on perspective...got me thinking about my general skepticism....and ya, I'm pretty much borderline nihilist.

"Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy."

Borderline, because "there's just one word that I still believe in (and?) it's love"

Beyond that...who knows what to believe, esp when it comes to war.

I can tell you I'm pretty sure the US/NATO has never backed Assad. They have, however, backed the 'people revolting' (read: al nusra / al Qaeda / Isis / foreign mercenaries / extremists / etc ), against Assad...and some say they've even backed them against the increasingly Iran-aligned Iraqi government...there is evidence that it was the 'Rebels' that used the chemical weapons, not the Syrian military.....but here's the thing...those governments and their allies are brutal and corrupt and powerdrunk, just like our leaders...there are two sides to every armed conflict, and more often than not, we are only exposed to one side, unless we look for the other side, and investigate causation from all perspectives. There is no other way to know what to believe. More often than not, doing so leaves us even more cynical, skeptical...often frustrated and confused.
You can name virtually any supposed 'humanitarian' military intervention, or any instance of 'preventing slaughter', and I can find you ulterior motive and/or an opposing view that has credence. Because of this, I find it pretty much impossible to support violence under any circumstance.
Anyway, there are well intentioned people in politics but I think the very nature of capitalism pushes them aside for the less morally-inclined.
We're headed toward a fork in the road that leaves options for a mass worldwide intellectual awakening, or hitting reset. Id like to say I have faith in humans, but....I think we're gonna fuck it all up. Sooo...Destroy?

hedonist

Drowned...

JINX!

TalonTedd

Drowned hedonist. Thanks for your comments and well wishes. drowned hedonist....sounds like a good day during the inquisition.

Drowned Out

Ha!
I think You're more of a possomist than myself )

(Why did some weird hallucinogenic puppy show up for my wink emoticon? Ahhhh this board).

Drowned Out

Nice...enjoying a treat in my (driveway parked) car while posting...a white rabbit ran by as I typed 'hallucinogenic'...then Daughter came on the radio. Where's byrnzie's synchronicity thread?

badbrains

Hard to have an awakening when so many choose to remain asleep. I wish that awakening happens sooner then later.

TalonTedd

One pill makes you shorter
one pill make you tall
the one that mother gives you
fucks your mind best of all.....just ask alice

TalonTedd

badbrains wrote: »

Hard to have an awakening when so many choose to remain asleep. I wish that awakening happens sooner then later.

we'll wake em up BB. there has got to be another way. Oh ya that's right. the Z team.

backseatLover12

Drowned Out wrote: »

Guys, some good thoughts here and comments on perspective...got me thinking about my general skepticism....and ya, I'm pretty much borderline nihilist.

"Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy."

Borderline, because "there's just one word that I still believe in (and?) it's love"

Beyond that...who knows what to believe, esp when it comes to war.

I can tell you I'm pretty sure the US/NATO has never backed Assad. They have, however, backed the 'people revolting' (read: al nusra / al Qaeda / Isis / foreign mercenaries / extremists / etc ), against Assad...and some say they've even backed them against the increasingly Iran-aligned Iraqi government...there is evidence that it was the 'Rebels' that used the chemical weapons, not the Syrian military.....but here's the thing...those governments and their allies are brutal and corrupt and powerdrunk, just like our leaders...there are two sides to every armed conflict, and more often than not, we are only exposed to one side, unless we look for the other side, and investigate causation from all perspectives. There is no other way to know what to believe. More often than not, doing so leaves us even more cynical, skeptical...often frustrated and confused.
You can name virtually any supposed 'humanitarian' military intervention, or any instance of 'preventing slaughter', and I can find you ulterior motive and/or an opposing view that has credence. Because of this, I find it pretty much impossible to support violence under any circumstance.
Anyway, there are well intentioned people in politics but I think the very nature of capitalism pushes them aside for the less morally-inclined.
We're headed toward a fork in the road that leaves options for a mass worldwide intellectual awakening, or hitting reset. Id like to say I have faith in humans, but....I think we're gonna fuck it all up. Sooo...Destroy?

Great post.

Nihilism, I completely disregard. If one is so empty that all values are lost, then that person is one lost being and is in dire need of help before they destroy themselves.

Jason P

Nihilism can be exhausting.

rgambs

“NIHILISTS! I MEAN, SAY WHAT YOU LIKE ABOUT THE TENETS OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM, DUDE, AT LEAST IT’S AN ETHOS.”

badbrains

Stop yelling RGambs )

TalonTedd

So I stated earlier that we are in the middle of WW3. This mourning I see on the news that fighting in the Ukraine has intensified dramatically. NATO has decided to send additional troops to countries that border Russia. As a measure to make Russia think twice about expanding hostilities to former Soviet Bloc nations; which will happen. So here is my side to all this. Perhaps if the west wasn't so hasty with encroaching on Russia's previous sphere of influence, with our alliance, markets and money; maybe none of this would have happened at all. Maybe, if we just allowed the ideals of freedom and justice to just grow at there own pace in these nations (that border an adversary armed to the teeth with nukes and drenched in nationalism) and just kept some distance for a while longer, maybe these nations would have grown further into democracy. Instead, we now have a Russia feeling humiliated, marginalized and backed into a corner. There economy is collapsing, and nationalism is rampant (Think Germany in the thirties). This is a real problem. We moved to hastily into their "Buffer zone", war will come of this. This ain't nihilism talking. Its just the way I see it. As an aside, The US has military bases in every time zone on the planet, its an empire that just refuses to stop growing....like cancer. More markets, more money, more more more more all the time. Enjoy the Super Bowl.

callen

Think the Europeans deal with shit in Europe and middle easterners deal with shit in Middle East. Bring our troops home.

TalonTedd

callen wrote: »

Think the Europeans deal with shit in Europe and middle easterners deal with shit in Middle East. Bring our troops home.

I think you may have something there. It could be done under a banner of peace and forgiveness. We say " yeah, your right, its all our fault. So sorry, we are leaving now. we are going back to our fortress N. America and continue to eclipse you in every technological advancement possible and live a life of luxury. Confident in our defenses and strong in our alliance." It sounds arrogant and irresponsible, to say the least. What's the alternative? Oh yeah, WAR!

BS44325

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.”

The words of Edmund Burke pretty much sum up my philosophy.

Also...

"You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you."

Leon Trotsky

Talon is right that dark times are upon us. If we choose to pullback however a far worse evil will fill the void.

Bah

hedonist

First, a big ol' hug Drowned, my fellow possomist

I know BB has referred to A Perfect Circle's "Pet" in this? or another thread. Listening to a live version right now, and fuck me if the lyrics ain't a kick in the head (or mind).

"stay with me...safe and ignorant...

go back to sleep :-$ "