While consuming less is one thing, the greater challenge is the part in the op that says people want to feel "free, competent, and connected". If you're able to free yourself from possessions, then the reduction in consuming follows. You have to look at how possessions can create stress and lead to disconnect from others. I think of cars as one of the main culprits of this. People probably spend $150 to $700 a month on their car and some talk about how their life comes to a stand still if their car doesn't start. Not to mention the stress related to traffic and that you give up much of your actual freedom for the perceived gain in freedom the car gives. Also, being able to put down the phone and be in the moment takes practice. Essentially a lot of the possessions are there to take us away from the present moment or avoid something uncomfortable. Practicing being present and not avoiding can also bring that detachment from possessions and greater freedom.
^^^This. I hate cars. I wish I could get rid of my car. It is a hassle, a burden, nothing enjoyable. Unfortunately, I live in a city with pathetic public transportation and it isn't feasible to use it unless you have to. I am trying to move to a better spot in the city so I can utilize walking and biking more often. Your comment is spot on about materialism and disconnect from others. The loss of community is great in this world :(
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
While consuming less is one thing, the greater challenge is the part in the op that says people want to feel "free, competent, and connected". If you're able to free yourself from possessions, then the reduction in consuming follows. You have to look at how possessions can create stress and lead to disconnect from others. I think of cars as one of the main culprits of this. People probably spend $150 to $700 a month on their car and some talk about how their life comes to a stand still if their car doesn't start. Not to mention the stress related to traffic and that you give up much of your actual freedom for the perceived gain in freedom the car gives. Also, being able to put down the phone and be in the moment takes practice. Essentially a lot of the possessions are there to take us away from the present moment or avoid something uncomfortable. Practicing being present and not avoiding can also bring that detachment from possessions and greater freedom.
I live in a rural area, so sadly the car is a must for me. Would prefer to be able to walk but not here. I like to take on the cell phone debate, I still have a "dumb" phone, and tend to rather leave it wherever it lands, and ignore it when it rings. (I know, no one tends to do this) I like to tell people that I preferred it when people had a tough time finding me and cell phones weren't around yet. It was a freer world when finding a pay phone was the only way to call people when away from home.
Being car free is amazing. The longer I live that way the better it feels (but yeah, it takes real planning, starting with where you are going to live in relation to work and all other amenities. You can't just let go of your car one day and say yay. You have to look ahead years and years and base major life decisions partly on your plan to go without a car).... Anyway, as someone who has done this, it's curious to see that most people still think of it as a complete oddity, and something they can't imagine because they appear to be addicted to their cars, so sometimes I find myself trying to justify something that I am actually proud of. And then I wonder why in the hell I feel like I have to do that. I can never find an answer. I guess it's just hard to be different sometimes.
I think a lot of what everyone has been talking about comes down to how we are perceived by others. Maybe the best thing to do is let go of caring about what other people think of our own choices - and the rest comes a lot more easily.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Ironic title and bit written by a guy who in all probability was a materialist himself. [ i love carlin though, saw him live twice]
Funny how materialists always use the word "materialist" only as a materialist would use it. That is to say, they misuse it. In a world of duality between spirit and matter, the Materialist remains so stubbornly blind to the former, that his obsession with the later causes him to use the term "materialism" itself only to refer to the one aspect of the term, "someone who values material things". When the actual definition is , "someone who values material things as more important than spiritual values." The blindness is so pervasive, they actually fail to see what they reject in the word's definition itself.
The better, and more classical definition of Materialism is actually:
"the doctrine that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications."
And that doctrine is actually shown by Einstein's theory alone to be so utterly out of touch with reality as to border on absurd.
Post edited by DriftingByTheStorm on
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I want more and more to have less and less. But my god do these THINGS have some ridiculous POWER!!! I want to purge it all!
Book, records- yikes! Haha!
Actually, overall we've been paring down around here this last year or so and it's a good feeling to do so. I even let a guitar go this year and even that felt kind of good. But I don't feel bad about having things that are durable and will last a long time (a few good tools vs a lot of cheap crappy tools for example), and books and records are just things that are passing through my life for a while. They will end up in others' libraries some day.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Music is for sharing, books, the same. You don't have to give everything away, but loan it all out at least. It's good karma. Share.
Sharing is great but is something we haven't learned to do as well in our culture as in some others. I have a friend who lived in Fiji and she tells how just about everything is shared there, to the point where most of us would be uncomfortable. People there will literally walk into another persons home and take something they need with no negative repercussions. We are so not-tribal that I can't imagine most of us being OK with that. Who here would? Be honest- would you be OK with your neighbor walking into you home while you are at work and borrowing something? Sadly, I cannot say yes to that.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Music is for sharing, books, the same. You don't have to give everything away, but loan it all out at least. It's good karma. Share.
Sharing is great but is something we haven't learned to do as well in our culture as in some others. I have a friend who lived in Fiji and she tells how just about everything is shared there, to the point where most of us would be uncomfortable. People there will literally walk into another persons home and take something they need with no negative repercussions. We are so not-tribal that I can't imagine most of us being OK with that. Who here would? Be honest- would you be OK with your neighbor walking into you home while you are at work and borrowing something? Sadly, I cannot say yes to that.
With one particular neighbour (and his family), yes, I would be okay with that; we have a really good relationship. In fact, he at times wanders over to check out our tools and poke about in the scrap wood pile to see if we have what he needs for a construction project, without asking, and we are free to do the same at his place (although if he is home then the polite thing to do is ask). However, he's the only one I'd be okay with doing that, so I certainly take your point.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I don't lock doors and I don't mind if people come to my house for things they migjt need, but I live in BFE where I can trust my neighbors. I only wish that they love on my doggies and let them out to pee while they are there!
I have 8 guitars and a uke....funny thing is, i play the crappier ones more often lol
"Art supplies", LOL!
It's funny how many of us play are unsatisfied with just one or two instruments. When I was a kid, obtaining my first (and at the time only) guitar was amazing. Now I sometimes take it for granted that I have three electrics and three acoustics- surely more than Robert Johnson ever dreamed of having and believe me, I ain't no Robert Johnson. I did let my Epiphone Dot go last year but now sometimes I think about how much I would love to have a USA standard Telecaster. Other times I think, why not just keep one acoustic and one electric... but not likely to happen.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
They do have different applications though. My Schecter electric has a poor sound compared to my Tele or Ibanez but a smooth backside to the neck and it is the best for sliding distortion heavy power chords around on songs like Getaway. Then theres the 12 string, the Samick standard acoustic, the beater acoustic which goes camping and boating, and the beautiful acoustic electric Oscar Schmidt for playing open mics. I have never bought a guitar believe it or not lol
They do have different applications though. My Schecter electric has a poor sound compared to my Tele or Ibanez but a smooth backside to the neck and it is the best for sliding distortion heavy power chords around on songs like Getaway. Then theres the 12 string, the Samick standard acoustic, the beater acoustic which goes camping and boating, and the beautiful acoustic electric Oscar Schmidt for playing open mics. I have never bought a guitar believe it or not lol
That's ok, rgambs, I too have justifications for every guitar I have, LOL!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
for me, purging isn't about my instruments, it's about all the stuff that is in storage that I don't use. not seasonal stuff, but stuff that NEVER comes out of my closet/garage. the kids are even better than me at getting rid of their stuff. and all the gig posters I've accumulated over the years that will never be displayed. I'm even considering getting rid of my PJ posters. I have one really neat Blind Melon poster from a 2008 gig signed by the whole band I'd like to keep though. And my EV Minnie poster will never leave my hands. But to display it nicely, I will have to spend a shitload of money. Hate that.
I give away books and cd's all the time. Unless it's a neat coffee table book, or a PJ book (LOL), I always share or give those away. I'm with Jerry Seinfeld on this one-if you read it, why do you need to keep it?
I'm with Jerry Seinfeld on this one-if you read it, why do you need to keep it?
To me, it's like painting, sculptures or music - seen / heard it once, yet still want (need?) to re-visit them for whatever reasons.
That said, the cards and photos and letters I've kept over the years...if I were to lose them, they'd still be with me. I guess too, the same for art and books, etc. Like memories.
Music is for sharing, books, the same. You don't have to give everything away, but loan it all out at least. It's good karma. Share.
Sharing is great but is something we haven't learned to do as well in our culture as in some others. I have a friend who lived in Fiji and she tells how just about everything is shared there, to the point where most of us would be uncomfortable. People there will literally walk into another persons home and take something they need with no negative repercussions. We are so not-tribal that I can't imagine most of us being OK with that. Who here would? Be honest- would you be OK with your neighbor walking into you home while you are at work and borrowing something? Sadly, I cannot say yes to that.
Depends on what neighbor I guess. I give away most of the books I read and keep about 20 favorites. The clutter gives me stress, and I like giving away books and music to friends.
Music is for sharing, books, the same. You don't have to give everything away, but loan it all out at least. It's good karma. Share.
Sharing is great but is something we haven't learned to do as well in our culture as in some others. I have a friend who lived in Fiji and she tells how just about everything is shared there, to the point where most of us would be uncomfortable. People there will literally walk into another persons home and take something they need with no negative repercussions. We are so not-tribal that I can't imagine most of us being OK with that. Who here would? Be honest- would you be OK with your neighbor walking into you home while you are at work and borrowing something? Sadly, I cannot say yes to that.
Depends on what neighbor I guess. I give away most of the books I read and keep about 20 favorites. The clutter gives me stress, and I like giving away books and music to friends.
Nicely done, bsL! I don't give a lot of books away (though some) because they're my bread and butter but I've given a lot of music away and it always feels good to do so! Also, thrift store shopping/donating is a great way to recycle stuff. Some people are too proud to shop thrift stores but I'm a fan. Best of all is learning to appreciate what we have and live with less stuff.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Im a big rereader, there is always some treasure you missed on your first hunt. My favorite works get worked over at least every 2 years!
I reread as well. Good books always reveal more each time you read them; sometimes it is something intrinsic to the book that you missed, and sometimes it is just life experience that allows you to see something new. However, I do purge books that didn't make the grade periodically, usually by donating them.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Aside from records, which has much more intrinsic value that other "stuff" because it's music (since I play them all), I am pretty minimalist when it comes to owning anything. I can't even seem to get around to buying shit I really do need, let alone shit I don't, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Aside from records, which has much more intrinsic value that other "stuff" because it's music (since I play them all), I am pretty minimalist when it comes to owning anything. I can't even seem to get around to buying shit I really do need, let alone shit I don't, lol.
hahaha! I hear you, PJ_Soul. Other than for books and records, I hate shopping!
("Hate" is a strong word. Loath is more like it.)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
^^^This. I hate cars. I wish I could get rid of my car. It is a hassle, a burden, nothing enjoyable. Unfortunately, I live in a city with pathetic public transportation and it isn't feasible to use it unless you have to. I am trying to move to a better spot in the city so I can utilize walking and biking more often. Your comment is spot on about materialism and disconnect from others. The loss of community is great in this world :(
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I live in a rural area, so sadly the car is a must for me. Would prefer to be able to walk but not here. I like to take on the cell phone debate, I still have a "dumb" phone, and tend to rather leave it wherever it lands, and ignore it when it rings. (I know, no one tends to do this) I like to tell people that I preferred it when people had a tough time finding me and cell phones weren't around yet. It was a freer world when finding a pay phone was the only way to call people when away from home.
I think a lot of what everyone has been talking about comes down to how we are perceived by others. Maybe the best thing to do is let go of caring about what other people think of our own choices - and the rest comes a lot more easily.
-Richard Butler, Psychedelic Furs
One of my favorite lines of sarcasm and a great song, "We Love You"
Funny how materialists always use the word "materialist" only as a materialist would use it. That is to say, they misuse it. In a world of duality between spirit and matter, the Materialist remains so stubbornly blind to the former, that his obsession with the later causes him to use the term "materialism" itself only to refer to the one aspect of the term, "someone who values material things". When the actual definition is , "someone who values material things as more important than spiritual values." The blindness is so pervasive, they actually fail to see what they reject in the word's definition itself.
The better, and more classical definition of Materialism is actually:
"the doctrine that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications."
And that doctrine is actually shown by Einstein's theory alone to be so utterly out of touch with reality as to border on absurd.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Radical!
www.headstonesband.com
Book, records- yikes! Haha!
Actually, overall we've been paring down around here this last year or so and it's a good feeling to do so. I even let a guitar go this year and even that felt kind of good. But I don't feel bad about having things that are durable and will last a long time (a few good tools vs a lot of cheap crappy tools for example), and books and records are just things that are passing through my life for a while. They will end up in others' libraries some day.
Sharing is great but is something we haven't learned to do as well in our culture as in some others. I have a friend who lived in Fiji and she tells how just about everything is shared there, to the point where most of us would be uncomfortable. People there will literally walk into another persons home and take something they need with no negative repercussions. We are so not-tribal that I can't imagine most of us being OK with that. Who here would? Be honest- would you be OK with your neighbor walking into you home while you are at work and borrowing something? Sadly, I cannot say yes to that.
With one particular neighbour (and his family), yes, I would be okay with that; we have a really good relationship. In fact, he at times wanders over to check out our tools and poke about in the scrap wood pile to see if we have what he needs for a construction project, without asking, and we are free to do the same at his place (although if he is home then the polite thing to do is ask). However, he's the only one I'd be okay with doing that, so I certainly take your point.
"Art supplies", LOL!
It's funny how many of us play are unsatisfied with just one or two instruments. When I was a kid, obtaining my first (and at the time only) guitar was amazing. Now I sometimes take it for granted that I have three electrics and three acoustics- surely more than Robert Johnson ever dreamed of having and believe me, I ain't no Robert Johnson. I did let my Epiphone Dot go last year but now sometimes I think about how much I would love to have a USA standard Telecaster. Other times I think, why not just keep one acoustic and one electric... but not likely to happen.
That's ok, rgambs, I too have justifications for every guitar I have, LOL!
I give away books and cd's all the time. Unless it's a neat coffee table book, or a PJ book (LOL), I always share or give those away. I'm with Jerry Seinfeld on this one-if you read it, why do you need to keep it?
www.headstonesband.com
That said, the cards and photos and letters I've kept over the years...if I were to lose them, they'd still be with me. I guess too, the same for art and books, etc. Like memories.
Depends on what neighbor I guess. I give away most of the books I read and keep about 20 favorites. The clutter gives me stress, and I like giving away books and music to friends.
Nicely done, bsL! I don't give a lot of books away (though some) because they're my bread and butter but I've given a lot of music away and it always feels good to do so! Also, thrift store shopping/donating is a great way to recycle stuff. Some people are too proud to shop thrift stores but I'm a fan. Best of all is learning to appreciate what we have and live with less stuff.
hahaha! I hear you, PJ_Soul. Other than for books and records, I hate shopping!
("Hate" is a strong word. Loath is more like it.)