Drumming

jjaskowiak7

I know this has been beaten to death and many will bash me for this, but since Matt will be touring with Soundgarden...

Am I the only one who feels Cameron's drumming has become uninspired? He has kind of just become metronome and his live performances of older songs are forced and inadequate.

What would happen if Krusen was put in a room with the guys?

nicknyr15

jjaskowiak7 said:

I know this has been beaten to death and many will bash me for this, but since Matt will be touring with Soundgarden...

Am I the only one who feels Cameron's drumming has become uninspired? He has kind of just become metronome and his live performances of older songs are forced and inadequate.

What would happen if Krusen was put in a room with the guys?

Nothing would happen. Every one likes 3 hour+ shows? Ok. Well without MC that doesn't happen. Im sorry to come off bad but I dont think he gets the credit he deserves. There's a reason EV praises him on a nightly basis. He's been through all the other drummers, he knows the importance of MC. He plays older songs different but he also plays stuff he played on different live. He's a beast!!!!!!! Krusen couldn't hang, Irons definitely couldn't hang. All great drummers , but you want marathon shows ? They aren't gonna cut it.

I'm a drummer. I could easily play along to all of the other drummers. Playing along to MC, especially on the boots where songs are played a lot faster, is very difficult.

jjaskowiak7

Great point about the length of the live shows and I don't question his stamina. I just think the studio albums could use more "unconventional" or new sounds. Not being a drummer I am not quiet sure how to word it, but I feel the drumming is lacking a "pop" or that unexpected rhythm that can bring diversity to a song.

I respect Matt and his history with everyone, but can't help wishing for a studio album with someone else.

nicknyr15

jjaskowiak7 said:

Great point about the length of the live shows and I don't question his stamina. I just think the studio albums could use more "unconventional" or new sounds. Not being a drummer I am not quiet sure how to word it, but I feel the drumming is lacking a "pop" or that unexpected rhythm that can bring diversity to a song.

I respect Matt and his history with everyone, but can't help wishing for a studio album with someone else.

I hear you. Most of Matts songs that he wrote with PJ are in odd time, and I think we can all agree that he's not the greatest song writer in the group. So I think he does the best with what he's given as far as studio drumming. His drumming with SG is more intricate and more odd time signatures than PJ and i think it's has to with the band, not necessarily him.

musicsam3

I am a drummer.
I have struggled with this for years. The bottom line, I think, is that if MC did not join this band
they would not be together still and we would not have the last 4 records to love. They also would not have evolved into the live powerhouse they have become. He IS a monster! He isn't a part of the original machine that created Ten, He wasn't the overload of sauce and spice and showmanship that Dave A was. He doesn't have the same odd creative sway and swagger of Jack. He is a timekeeping machine full of energy, unwavering in focus, and literally has more stamina than most musicians. He may not be the preferred in many ways but I believe he is the one member of PJ we should really be truly thankful for. MFC is now the foundation. And I for one am extremely grateful for the support he has provided for this great band, my favorite band
ever!

2-feign-reluctance

musicsam3 said:

I am a drummer.
I have struggled with this for years. The bottom line, I think, is that if MC did not join this band
they would not be together still and we would not have the last 4 records to love. They also would not have evolved into the live powerhouse they have become. He IS a monster! He isn't a part of the original machine that created Ten, He wasn't the overload of sauce and spice and showmanship that Dave A was. He doesn't have the same odd creative sway and swagger of Jack. He is a timekeeping machine full of energy, unwavering in focus, and literally has more stamina than most musicians. He may not be the preferred in many ways but I believe he is the one member of PJ we should really be truly thankful for. MFC is now the foundation. And I for one am extremely grateful for the support he has provided for this great band, my favorite band
ever!

facepollution

musicsam3 said:

I am a drummer.
I have struggled with this for years. The bottom line, I think, is that if MC did not join this band
they would not be together still and we would not have the last 4 records to love. They also would not have evolved into the live powerhouse they have become. He IS a monster! He isn't a part of the original machine that created Ten, He wasn't the overload of sauce and spice and showmanship that Dave A was. He doesn't have the same odd creative sway and swagger of Jack. He is a timekeeping machine full of energy, unwavering in focus, and literally has more stamina than most musicians. He may not be the preferred in many ways but I believe he is the one member of PJ we should really be truly thankful for. MFC is now the foundation. And I for one am extremely grateful for the support he has provided for this great band, my favorite band
ever!

You pretty much said it all!

I understand why people pine for Jack's unique style, because he was an incredible presence on No Code and Yield, but live he was not up to the job - and that was back when they were only playing 2 hour shows. Matt Cameron is a fucking machine.

nicknyr15

musicsam3 said:

I am a drummer.
I have struggled with this for years. The bottom line, I think, is that if MC did not join this band
they would not be together still and we would not have the last 4 records to love. They also would not have evolved into the live powerhouse they have become. He IS a monster! He isn't a part of the original machine that created Ten, He wasn't the overload of sauce and spice and showmanship that Dave A was. He doesn't have the same odd creative sway and swagger of Jack. He is a timekeeping machine full of energy, unwavering in focus, and literally has more stamina than most musicians. He may not be the preferred in many ways but I believe he is the one member of PJ we should really be truly thankful for. MFC is now the foundation. And I for one am extremely grateful for the support he has provided for this great band, my favorite band
ever!

I tried hard to say this in my earlier post but you pretty much nailedit. I also think some people think if they made an album again with Dave A or Irons we'd get another Vs. or No Code, which would not happen.

PJ_Soul

I think it's about the band, not Matt's skills. He kicks ass in Soundgarden because he can throw everything he has into much shorter shows instead of successfully running the PJ marathon. He was by far the best thing about SG when i saw them live. Granted, it happened to be a disastrous show, but Matt was the one shining light. But SG doesn't offer as much competition for Matt. Basically, PJ is very much a guitar band with one of the most captivating and engaging lead singers of all time. Matt's necessary, obviously, and he does a good job with what he's given and what he offers in PJ, but he is playing behind the likes of Eddie Vedder, McCready, Stone, and Jeff. I love SG, but IMHO Pearl Jam wins the best ensemble award, and that kind of reduces Matt's impact.

Matt can do more given the right circumstances. That said, he IS the drummer. If PJ is lacking in some way as far as drums go, then it's Matt ' s job to step up and bring it when they're working on albums and writing songs.... maybe he needs to do a better job of that. He needs to assert himself more as the band's drummer. Perhaps him being the only non-original member has something to do with that?

But another "that said".... i really never listen to Pearl Jam and think that there is something lacking. Would I notice if the drums suddenly reached John Bonham levels (JB is one of my favorite musicians of all time - I really appreciate god-like drums skills!)? Yes, of course. That would be really interesting and awesome. But i don't miss that when I hear PJ's music either. A great band still isn't necessarily all things for all people. In the end, I am very satisfied with MC's drumming for PJ specifically. He gives them what they need as a band.

Btw OP, have you listened to Drumgasm??? Give that a spin and then come back and tell us that Matt's not got the skills - I doubt you would.

Plus, he's really likeable. :P

Suziemay

I like Matt. I don't want them to replace him. The end.

Abe Froman

Matt Cameron is the fucking man. Period.

whofeelslikeadrank

Suziemay said:

I like Matt. I don't want them to replace him. The end.

Abe Froman said:

Matt Cameron is the fucking man. Period.

WhatYouTaughtMe

I always felt the different drummers had pretty varied set ups. Matt is insanely talented, maybe his sound just doesn't mesh with the band to some people. They are all different and I dig them all in different ways.

TJ25487

2-feign-reluctance said:

musicsam3 said:

I am a drummer.
I have struggled with this for years. The bottom line, I think, is that if MC did not join this band
they would not be together still and we would not have the last 4 records to love. They also would not have evolved into the live powerhouse they have become. He IS a monster! He isn't a part of the original machine that created Ten, He wasn't the overload of sauce and spice and showmanship that Dave A was. He doesn't have the same odd creative sway and swagger of Jack. He is a timekeeping machine full of energy, unwavering in focus, and literally has more stamina than most musicians. He may not be the preferred in many ways but I believe he is the one member of PJ we should really be truly thankful for. MFC is now the foundation. And I for one am extremely grateful for the support he has provided for this great band, my favorite band
ever!

Word!!!!

arq

I'm happy with all the persons who have filled the job behind the kit for PJ but I take "Mattchinegun" Cameron any time of the day.

2-feign-reluctance

whofeelslikeadrank said:

Suziemay said:

I like Matt. I don't want them to replace him. The end.

Abe Froman said:

Matt Cameron is the fucking man. Period.

bootlegger10

Matt Cameron is the man. He is a member of the band Pearl Jam. He may not get royalties for Ten and Vs., but he is as much a member of Pearl Jam as he is Soundgarden. SUre there have been other drummers, but I think Matt has earned the right after 16 yeras not to have fans wishing he was replaced. It is just as ridiculous as would be talking about replacing Stone or Jeff (which no one does).

Edit: But Boom now has a diva complex.

vant0037

I met Matt and Ray Cameron in Amsterdam 2012 and they were both very nice.

tominzinga

matt seems like a real cool dude, and hes a great drummer and without him PJ might be around. However I cannot lie to myself and say I didn't enjoy every other drummer much more than his playing. I just think his talents are used better in soundgarden.

HesCalledDyer

Geddy Lee asked Matt to drum on his solo album. This is a guy who has played with Neil Peart for nearly 40 years. If, in Geddy's mind, Matt is second only to Neil, that's saying something!

rtwilli4

I've recently been going back and listening to old boots from 92 to 98. I have to say I do love hearing Dave A play in the early days, and there is nothing like hearing Jack Irons play Who You, In My Tree, Given To Fly, etc. The power of Dave played a huge role in those manic shows on the '92 tour and then Jack Irons took the band in a direction that I think we can all agree turned out pretty fucking awesome.

But to say I "miss" them would be a lie.

Those guys contributed so much to what we all know as Pearl Jam today but without MFC I don't think we'd have the Boston Experiment, the Philly Shows, nights like Moline and Milwaukee... I know Jack was part of a few three hour shows but that is really why he ended up leaving.

Pearl Jam is still relevant today because of their ever growing collection of amazing live moments and many (most) of them might not have been possible without MFC.

2-feign-reluctance

I love Matt, but Dave will always be my favourite PJ drummer.

TheGhost

I can't help but comment on these type of threads! Matt IS the drummer in Pearl Jam, everything else is a "what-if?". Why doesn't someone start a thread about replacing Jeff with Flea or some damn thing? Maybe Bruce Springsteen should replace Eddie? Matt is a master, literally. One of the best rock drummers alive. A legend in rock drums. As far as the early drummers, my opinion is that Dave A. was a beast, and very talented. His stuff sounds dated to me now on occasion, but is a good drummer, no doubt. Jack is also a fantastic drummer but couldn't handle the shows, and you can hear it on some of those boots. All the drummers they've had have contributed to the legacy, but Matt IS the legacy!

Umbertotamba

Don't get me wrong without Matt Cameron we would not have Pearl Jam! With that being said I wish he would slow down on some of the older songs, the feel on some of them have changed. I really like Even Flow on the original recording and in the early boots, but over the years the song has evolved live, the whole song has been sped up and is not the same song played live anymore.

My favorite personally was Dave A, but I have grown out of the angst I had in the 90's and so has the band. I love where the band is now and that is with Matt and Pearl Jam would not be the same without him.

RoleModelsinBlood31

Good thread. I enjoy the jack years the best, and don't think matt is much moe than a metronome as far as personality, but he's a necessity. Everyone's right that thanks to him they're still a band that's kicking ass and not just around and nostalgic like SD. One of the cool parts of PJ is all the different ways they've twisted and turned throughout the years thanks to the fact they had so many personalities behind the kit.

Maybe I'm just stoned.... Ok, I am stoned, but did Stone use to have cooler riffs that bounced off of and intertwined with the drums back with those more creative drummers than he does now? I think of Glorified G.

I also liked those years a lot because they didn't have Boom, and I just like the edgier, rawer sound they had without the layers of the organ.

TheGhost

Another theory: All the past drummers were so damn good (and so was the band) that we just can't fully appreciate Matt. We're spoiled. If Matt was playing on all those old shows we would worship him without question. I remain convinced that Matt is simply the best. He would have sounded amazing behind a raging '93 Eddie Vedder. Just listened to my new Vault vinyl. MFC is tough as nails.. and FYI, Matt slows down Eddie's intro to Immortality expertly. Just behind the beat. I don't think the relatively faster tempos of recent years is all Matt's fault. Often the guitars start the song insanely fast and he has to reign 'em in.

TheGhost

Wait a minute! Is the new vault Bellingham release Matt's first show? Listening now ( for the millionth time, but first on vinyl) And GOSH DARN that is the best drumming I ever heard!

mrk2

Nope, Matt's first show took place 2 years before Bellingham

RoleModelsinBlood31

TheGhost wrote: »

Wait a minute! Is the new vault Bellingham release Matt's first show? Listening now ( for the millionth time, but first on vinyl) And GOSH DARN that is the best drumming I ever heard!

Best evah?

Definitely check out bonham in zeppelin's "when the levee breaks" then. Also search Clyde Stubblefield. And Jon Fishman as a drummer who goes in and out of different timings is a good one to listen to- not the best but he's quite impressive. Like I said, it's hard for me to not like anything about Pearl jam! but Matt is kinda like a one trick pony compared to these guys.

SS9981

^^^^ Agree! And as far as the way Matt treats fans, we stayed in the same hotel as the band in Knoxville '98. Ed shook our hands, talked to us & even graced us with a picture. Mike came down to the lobby, went BACK to his room to give us a guitar pick each & played pool with other guests in hotel bar. When I walked up to Matt & tried to put out my hand to tell him it was an honor to meet him, he said nothing, looked at me like I was an annoyance to him & walked right past us. Sorry, but that's a world-class dick move. You want a machine, buy a drum machine & sit back their. But program it to Dave A. & The Mighty Jack Irons!

nicknyr15

The "Mighty" jack irons wouldn't be able to make it through half of a modern day PJ show. Just saying...

And Dave A is a one trick pony. He fills every space with a splash or a China hit.... He's the least versatile out of all 3.