Hopefully soon there will be no distinction between a natural birth and a C-section. The delivery method would simply be called a birth.
I'm curious as to why you hope for this? There are some important distinctions worth discussing.
I personally would like to have the word "natural" removed and replace it with "vaginal". It would be a momentous step forward in our thinking to say there is two delivery methods, neither with a distinction.
Sure, using the term "vaginal birth" is more accurate and is what would be used by the attendants (doctors, nurses, midwives, etc.), rather than "natural". I think, though, that this thread does highlight that there are differences between the two methods; this is not a value judgment, simply fact. Ideally the facts would be discussed and used to make the best decision at the time, which would not then lead to endless worry, rehashing, and criticism later on.
Labour and birth can be a frightening experience that takes people by surprise with how intense it is, and how little they are prepared for the realities.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Sure, using the term "vaginal birth" is more accurate and is what would be used by the attendants (doctors, nurses, midwives, etc.), rather than "natural". I think, though, that this thread does highlight that there are differences between the two methods; this is not a value judgment, simply fact. Ideally the facts would be discussed and used to make the best decision at the time, which would not then lead to endless worry, rehashing, and criticism later on.
Labour and birth can be a frightening experience that takes people by surprise with how intense it is, and how little they are prepared for the realities.
Yes this thread does highlight the differences between the two methods.
My comment was a mixture of what I felt about the third comment of this thread and my feelings on using the word "natural" when describing a delivery.
I just think that anyone to be thought of as an idiot for choosing a certain delivery method is an archaic way of thinking.
Sure, using the term "vaginal birth" is more accurate and is what would be used by the attendants (doctors, nurses, midwives, etc.), rather than "natural". I think, though, that this thread does highlight that there are differences between the two methods; this is not a value judgment, simply fact. Ideally the facts would be discussed and used to make the best decision at the time, which would not then lead to endless worry, rehashing, and criticism later on.
Labour and birth can be a frightening experience that takes people by surprise with how intense it is, and how little they are prepared for the realities.
Yes this thread does highlight the differences between the two methods.
My comment was a mixture of what I felt about the third comment of this thread and my feelings on using the word "natural" when describing a delivery.
I just think that anyone to be thought of as an idiot for choosing a certain delivery method is an archaic way of thinking.
I don't know if I agree with the last sentence or not. I think the reason for the choice is important. Is it convenience? It certainly does happen that way, and the ethics behind that are a little questionable, given the uncertainty of the long-term effects of surgical birth.
I guess in my mind people who schedule c-sections for non medical reasons are idiots.
I was referring to this^^^
Strong language... I am a huge fan of speaking boldly, with the ever present risk of putting one's foot directly into one's mouth. To quote of of my top ten favorite authors, Ralph Waldo Emerson... “Speak what you think today in hard words and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today." I tend to agree with the sentiment of that post. It isn't smart in my opinion. Everybody gets to choose their path through life though, but I am unafraid to admit that judging others' paths is part of the fun of walking my own trail lol! (Of course I mean "judging" in a very light sense...not actually condemning people in a binding or permanent way...in most cases lol)
If you have the time, Ricki Lake (yes, that Ricki Lake) did a really interesting documentary on c-sections & natural childbirth call the The Business of Being Born. I went to a screening with a friend of mine who is a midwife.
In short, most c-sections are scheduled for the convenience of the doctor/hospital. They happen most frequently leading up to 5pm & midnight so the doctor can get home on time. Or so they can schedule as many childbirths in a given day.
Or for liability purposes - if anything goes wrong, they immediately turn to c-section. If there's a lawsuit, the doctor can then argue "we did everything we could".
My fiancee is a pediatric therapist and is learning how natural birth is critical to developing certain reflexes causing sensory processing disorders.
Wow, that reflex stuff is very interesting stuff. Thanks for that.
And I also watched that Ricki Lake documentary a few years back and it was very eye opening.
I guess in my mind people who schedule c-sections for non medical reasons are idiots.
I was referring to this^^^
I stand by that post given the evidence presented in this thread.
I don't understand why you give a shit either way. What difference does it make? I personally couldn't give a flying fuck about how women get the babies out of them as long as it's legal.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If it was random and my kid was born on the 13th, I wouldnt 'mind'. Scheduling a birth on the 13th, my mind would play tricks on me and I would insists its a bad omen and get very anxious.
I guess in my mind people who schedule c-sections for non medical reasons are idiots.
I was referring to this^^^
I stand by that post given the evidence presented in this thread.
I don't understand why you give a shit either way. What difference does it make? I personally couldn't give a flying fuck about how women get the babies out of them as long as it's legal.
I can't speak for dignin, but personally I care because it is an important aspect of maternal and fetal/infant health.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I guess in my mind people who schedule c-sections for non medical reasons are idiots.
I was referring to this^^^
I stand by that post given the evidence presented in this thread.
I don't understand why you give a shit either way. What difference does it make? I personally couldn't give a flying fuck about how women get the babies out of them as long as it's legal.
I can't speak for dignin, but personally I care because it is an important aspect of maternal and fetal/infant health.
Well, obviously. I meant that assuming we're talking about methods that don't harm people. And legal c-sections don't actually really increase risk to mother or baby. It's complications related to non-elective/emergency c-sections that increase risk to health.
One nice thing about c-section births are that the babies don't have those fucked up oblong head shapes right after they're born. That looks really weird to me, lol. It kind of reduces the possible cuteness of a newborn human baby.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I guess in my mind people who schedule c-sections for non medical reasons are idiots.
I was referring to this^^^
I stand by that post given the evidence presented in this thread.
I don't understand why you give a shit either way. What difference does it make? I personally couldn't give a flying fuck about how women get the babies out of them as long as it's legal.
I guess in my mind people who schedule c-sections for non medical reasons are idiots.
I was referring to this^^^
I stand by that post given the evidence presented in this thread.
I don't understand why you give a shit either way. What difference does it make? I personally couldn't give a flying fuck about how women get the babies out of them as long as it's legal.
I can't speak for dignin, but personally I care because it is an important aspect of maternal and fetal/infant health.
Well, obviously. I meant that assuming we're talking about methods that don't harm people. And legal c-sections don't actually really increase risk to mother or baby. It's complications related to non-elective/emergency c-sections that increase risk to health.
Have you read anything I (and others) have posted regarding this topic? I feel like you haven't.
Given that my tax dollars go toward these elective procedures I should give a flying fuck and you should to.
And the evidence is mounting that vaginal birthed babys have less health problems. Which in turn makes them less of a burden on our health care system. Saving money.
I will say it again, I have no problem with c-sections when necessary. They save lives and that is awesome.
I don't believe for one single second that healthy c-section babies (i.e. excluding complications that resulted in a c-section) have worse health though. I look at that theory as utter bullshit, kind of like all that crap about how circumcision reduces sex drive. (Yes, I've read much of the thread)
I already pay for everyone else's kids' education, and i don't mind paying my share of taxes for child birth costs either. I have a lot more shit to be concerned about than that when it comes to where my tax dollars are going. I think if a woman really wants a c-section for whatever reason she deserves to be able to do it, since no one else should be dictating or criticizing how another woman chooses to give birth to her own children. I file this in the "it's none of your damned business" folder.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't believe for one single second that healthy c-section babies (i.e. excluding complications that resulted in a c-section) have worse health though. I look at that theory as utter bullshit, kind of like all that crap about how circumcision reduces sex drive. (Yes, I've read much of the thread)
I already pay for everyone else's kids' education, and i don't mind paying my share of taxes for child birth costs either. I have a lot more shit to be concerned about than that when it comes to where my tax dollars are going. I think if a woman really wants a c-section for whatever reason she deserves to be able to do it, since no one else should be dictating or criticizing how another woman chooses to give birth to her own children. I file this in the "it's none of your damned business" folder.
Oh wow. You are so far off base I'm not even going to bother. Evidence be damned.
I don't believe for one single second that healthy c-section babies (i.e. excluding complications that resulted in a c-section) have worse health though. I look at that theory as utter bullshit, kind of like all that crap about how circumcision reduces sex drive. (Yes, I've read much of the thread)
I already pay for everyone else's kids' education, and i don't mind paying my share of taxes for child birth costs either. I have a lot more shit to be concerned about than that when it comes to where my tax dollars are going. I think if a woman really wants a c-section for whatever reason she deserves to be able to do it, since no one else should be dictating or criticizing how another woman chooses to give birth to her own children. I file this in the "it's none of your damned business" folder.
What sources of information are you basing your opinion on, PJ_Soul? There are some fairly well established drawbacks to elective C-section, for both baby and mother. Giving people facts doesn't make it a criticism.
Although planned cesarean deliveries carry a lower chance of hemorrhage, they are also linked to risks for bladder and bowel injury, longer hospital stays, higher infection rates, and increased neonatal respiratory morbidity. Moreover, rates of postpartum pelvic pain, sexual dysfunction, pelvic organ prolapse, and depression — which some women hope to avoid via surgical delivery — remain unchanged.
ACOG emphasizes that surgical delivery be especially avoided in women planning to have several children because subsequent cesarean deliveries are tied to increasing risks for complications, such as placenta previa or accreta, uterine rupture, and emergency hysterectomy
(Drawn from ACOG guidelines, 2013)
Post edited by oftenreading on
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I don't believe for one single second that healthy c-section babies (i.e. excluding complications that resulted in a c-section) have worse health though. I look at that theory as utter bullshit, kind of like all that crap about how circumcision reduces sex drive. (Yes, I've read much of the thread)
I already pay for everyone else's kids' education, and i don't mind paying my share of taxes for child birth costs either. I have a lot more shit to be concerned about than that when it comes to where my tax dollars are going. I think if a woman really wants a c-section for whatever reason she deserves to be able to do it, since no one else should be dictating or criticizing how another woman chooses to give birth to her own children. I file this in the "it's none of your damned business" folder.
Oh wow. You are so far off base I'm not even going to bother. Evidence be damned.
What part do you think is off base in that post?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't believe for one single second that healthy c-section babies (i.e. excluding complications that resulted in a c-section) have worse health though. I look at that theory as utter bullshit, kind of like all that crap about how circumcision reduces sex drive. (Yes, I've read much of the thread)
I already pay for everyone else's kids' education, and i don't mind paying my share of taxes for child birth costs either. I have a lot more shit to be concerned about than that when it comes to where my tax dollars are going. I think if a woman really wants a c-section for whatever reason she deserves to be able to do it, since no one else should be dictating or criticizing how another woman chooses to give birth to her own children. I file this in the "it's none of your damned business" folder.
What sources of information are you basing your opinion on, PJ_Soul? There are some fairly well established drawbacks to elective C-section, for both baby and mother. Giving people facts doesn't make it a criticism.
Although planned cesarean deliveries carry a lower chance of hemorrhage, they are also linked to risks for bladder and bowel injury, longer hospital stays, higher infection rates, and increased neonatal respiratory morbidity. Moreover, rates of postpartum pelvic pain, sexual dysfunction, pelvic organ prolapse, and depression — which some women hope to avoid via surgical delivery — remain unchanged.
ACOG emphasizes that surgical delivery be especially avoided in women planning to have several children because subsequent cesarean deliveries are tied to increasing risks for complications, such as placenta previa or accreta, uterine rupture, and emergency hysterectomy
(Drawn from ACOG guidelines, 2013)
Mothers are made aware of the risks, just like everyone who is undergoing surgery is. The decision is the mother's, so none of my beeswax.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
This article from the Globe and Mail on the enormously high rate of C-sections in Brazil caught my eye and reminded me of this earlier thread. The pro-C section doctors quoted in the article don't come off looking very good, although I'm sure there are other factors at work, too, some of which they mention (lack of hospital rooms for labouring women that are not operating rooms) and some of which are larger societal attitudes. I was already aware that Brazil was very pro-surgery; apparently they have the highest rate of cosmetic surgery in the world, and this may be viewed in the same vein.
Giving birth to my first daughter was the worst experience of my life. I was 21 clueless and thouht doctors knew it all.. I can't tell you how wrong I was. I was confined to the bed, hooked up yo an IV cause I was induced. She was a vaginal birth. My 2nd daughter was a little better due to being given an epidural, but yet again my mobility was limited. Yet again i was induced. Fast forward 9 years and my son was born(almost in the elevator on the way up to the labour suites) without any drugs. I spent the whole time walking the halls of the maternity ward, knowing this would help diminish the pain. Less than 2 years later I was seriously hoping #4 would drop at home. She didnt, but was born, like all her sibs in hospital and again like all of them, vaginally.and like her Big brother,drug free.
For me I finally felt I got the birth thing down the way I wanted it.... drug free within an environment where if anything did go awry(thank the universe nothing did) id be in competant hands.
my daughter on the otherhand delivered her child by caesarean and being in the theatre with her and despite being the one to cut my grand daughters cord it is not a position id ever want to find myself in. But hey who knows what can happen..... childbirth can be an unpredictable situation and whatever needs to be done to get that baby out and lessen the risk to the mother(and baby) is what needs to be done.
Post edited by catefrances on
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
How many billion Billion of us are there? Fuck deliver during skydiving. I don't give a fuck.
I don't not want random afterbirth falling from the sky while careless skydivers give birth and it falls on my vehicles paint job.Pollen and love bugs are hard enough to remove.Afterbirth is just a whole different level of dirty.
Comments
Labour and birth can be a frightening experience that takes people by surprise with how intense it is, and how little they are prepared for the realities.
My comment was a mixture of what I felt about the third comment of this thread and my feelings on using the word "natural" when describing a delivery.
I just think that anyone to be thought of as an idiot for choosing a certain delivery method is an archaic way of thinking.
“Speak what you think today in hard words and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today."
I tend to agree with the sentiment of that post. It isn't smart in my opinion. Everybody gets to choose their path through life though, but I am unafraid to admit that judging others' paths is part of the fun of walking my own trail lol! (Of course I mean "judging" in a very light sense...not actually condemning people in a binding or permanent way...in most cases lol)
And I also watched that Ricki Lake documentary a few years back and it was very eye opening.
If it was random and my kid was born on the 13th, I wouldnt 'mind'. Scheduling a birth on the 13th, my mind would play tricks on me and I would insists its a bad omen and get very anxious.
I'm not a Taurus. I'm a nothing. :P
One nice thing about c-section births are that the babies don't have those fucked up oblong head shapes right after they're born. That looks really weird to me, lol. It kind of reduces the possible cuteness of a newborn human baby.
The doctors marveled at how perfectly shaped my sister's head was (and it was, dammit).
As for me? Mine looked like a goddamned eggplant :-L
I really had no idea there was such debate over methodology.
For one thing having a c-section is more expensive. http://transform.childbirthconnection.org/resources/datacenter/chargeschart/
Given that my tax dollars go toward these elective procedures I should give a flying fuck and you should to.
And the evidence is mounting that vaginal birthed babys have less health problems. Which in turn makes them less of a burden on our health care system. Saving money.
I will say it again, I have no problem with c-sections when necessary. They save lives and that is awesome.
I already pay for everyone else's kids' education, and i don't mind paying my share of taxes for child birth costs either. I have a lot more shit to be concerned about than that when it comes to where my tax dollars are going. I think if a woman really wants a c-section for whatever reason she deserves to be able to do it, since no one else should be dictating or criticizing how another woman chooses to give birth to her own children. I file this in the "it's none of your damned business" folder.
Although planned cesarean deliveries carry a lower chance of hemorrhage, they are also linked to risks for bladder and bowel injury, longer hospital stays, higher infection rates, and increased neonatal respiratory morbidity. Moreover, rates of postpartum pelvic pain, sexual dysfunction, pelvic organ prolapse, and depression — which some women hope to avoid via surgical delivery — remain unchanged.
ACOG emphasizes that surgical delivery be especially avoided in women planning to have several children because subsequent cesarean deliveries are tied to increasing risks for complications, such as placenta previa or accreta, uterine rupture, and emergency hysterectomy
(Drawn from ACOG guidelines, 2013)
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/pushing-for-change-in-brazils-cesarean-reliant-birthing-culture/article22616617/
For me I finally felt I got the birth thing down the way I wanted it.... drug free within an environment where if anything did go awry(thank the universe nothing did) id be in competant hands.
my daughter on the otherhand delivered her child by caesarean and being in the theatre with her and despite being the one to cut my grand daughters cord it is not a position id ever want to find myself in. But hey who knows what can happen..... childbirth can be an unpredictable situation and whatever needs to be done to get that baby out and lessen the risk to the mother(and baby) is what needs to be done.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I don't not want random afterbirth falling from the sky while careless skydivers give birth and it falls on my vehicles paint job.Pollen and love bugs are hard enough to remove.Afterbirth is just a whole different level of dirty.
How do you get a chute harness on a newborn?