Why doesn't ten club remove eBay listings ??

doctorvik

If the ten club item says not for resale as the original seller of an item the Ten club has the right to request that eBay remove items -- why is that not happening ??

Rob Arm

Honestly I don't think they have any legal right to have listings removed.

elwayvedder

I think it's an issue of resources. There's a finite amount of bandwidth from 10C employees and they would kill themselves monitoring ebay 24/7. I think they have bigger priorities such as the bootleg colored vinyls where bootleggers are making $ off of PJ's work and efforts versus a fan making a few $ extra from buying and selling an item from SHOP

doctorvik

I have had listings removed before by element case and bose -- because of the high rate of fakes -- ebay lets them remove any listings they do not want on there (I was able to relist after contacting the companies and proving my items were real)
-- Yeah it does take time but can easily be done by members -- ie -- I could list all of the stone signed records on there on here and the could just send to ebay to have removed

jamburger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Believe their only right would be if reproductions were listed.

doctorvik

"If we removed your listing, it's probably because it either violated the law or one of our policies. Or, it may have been removed because the item's rights owner (for example, Coach or Louis Vuitton) asked us to remove it. This can happen even if your item is genuine."
from ebay ...

bootlegger10

Does the resale rule only impact 10C membership? I.E., we can't stop you from reselling but if we find out you are/did we'll revoke your membership.

Rob Arm

Have you been selling fake pocketbooks on eBay

jamburger

doctorvik said:

"If we removed your listing, it's probably because it either violated the law or one of our policies. Or, it may have been removed because the item's rights owner (for example, Coach or Louis Vuitton) asked us to remove it. This can happen even if your item is genuine."
from ebay ...

I don't know how well words/phrases like "probably" and "may have" hold up in court.

doctorvik

Rob Arm said:

Have you been selling fake pocketbooks on eBay

only gucci

FadedGlory

It would be pretty easy for the 10 Club to ask SOME things to be taken down, i.e. the Stone signed vinyl singles that only were sold here. But how could you ask them to remove a poster, for example? All the posters you buy here say you can't resell – but they're the same posters you can buy at the show. How do you prove the person selling it isn't selling a show version and not the 10 Club store version?

I think warnings like that are really more to put the reminder out there that, ya know, if you're buying this just to flip it and make a few bucks, maybe you should think twice ...

ajaxbro

I think their only shot at removing the item is when their images have been used for the the listing without their consent. As in pre-sales. I know other artists use this tactic as well to go after people. Mind you I am not a lawyer but i did stay at a holiday inn last night.

doctorvik

yeah posters would be tough as they are sold elsewhere-- but exclusive things to the ten club would be pretty easy I think -- I could contact eBay to actually see what their policy is ... I know that you can remove listings for image violations for sure ... but I am pretty sure if you are the original owner/ seller of an item eBay awards you the right to remove listings of said items at your discretion using their vero system.

bootlegger10

Well, this discussion is kind of pointless as there are plenty of items sold on Lost Dogs that had the not for resale tag when purchased.

Leash_In_Hiding

bootlegger10 said:

Well, this discussion is kind of pointless as there are plenty of items sold on Lost Dogs that had the not for resale tag when purchased.

^^^This

doctorvik

I hear that but I think that here is a lot fairer price wise and people do not look to buy exclusive stuff and then resell right away on LD as that would not be tolerated.

Brane_of_JFK

bootlegger10 said:

Well, this discussion is kind of pointless as there are plenty of items sold on Lost Dogs that had the not for resale tag when purchased.

But those same items could have been traded to the person now selling it. If they didn't buy it directly from the 10C, how can those same rules apply? Large gray area...

Weston1283

Brane_of_JFK said:

bootlegger10 said:

Well, this discussion is kind of pointless as there are plenty of items sold on Lost Dogs that had the not for resale tag when purchased.

But those same items could have been traded to the person now selling it. If they didn't buy it directly from the 10C, how can those same rules apply? Large gray area...

Agreed. Yeah I know everyone is freaking out about the Moline show but you cant just say "hey we should end ebay auctions so flippers cant flip" You cant do that when you can sell the Pittsburgh 2013 print in Lost Dogs, a show that is just a couple weeks over a year old, for 200-225$ and have people say "oh what a bargain, someone will jump on that quick" This may just happen to be that show of the tour that has the outrageous second market posters. Every tour seems to have one. Yeah it sucks for people that went and missed out but thats just the way it is.

tempo_n_groove

doctorvik said:

I hear that but I think that here is a lot fairer price wise and people do not look to buy exclusive stuff and then resell right away on LD as that would not be tolerated.

I have witnessed full blown ebay prices on here more often than not... Good deals are few and far between sometimes...unless I get that sealed Binaural from a certain member for one hell of a good price... :-)

doctorvik

Maybe I'm just bitter that I didn't get a Stone / Mason :-(

scottiek2

If people didn't over inflate & push prices up, there wouldn't be any issue! (Yes, I'm looking at you Benaroya Hall vinyl)

boyo79

Bottom line is flippers wouldn't exist if people didn't pay stupid prices.

bootlegger10

boyo79 said:

Bottom line is flippers wouldn't exist if people didn't pay stupid prices.

And part of the fun of collecting is the rarity factor, which usually increases the value of items (if they are actually worth collecting).

Zod

As much as the 10c says something's not for resell. Once you buy an item it belongs to you. I don't think it's actually against the law to resell something you own. It might be against the rules of the company you bought it from, but not against the law. 10c could strip the membership but they would have to complete the auction to find out who the seller is (as your generally using a nickname on ebay).

That and like other people said, 10c is a small mom and pop operation, they don't have that much staff.

doctorvik

yes but we are not talking about the law - eBay has policies that let the property rights owner (ie the company that made the goods) remove listings -- does not have to be legal or illegal. How is it possible for bose to remove my listing?? They are my headphones and I bought them yet bose can heve eBay remove MY listing b/c they are the property rights owner and specific eBay policies allow for that

foodshop65

doctorvik said:

Maybe I'm just bitter that I didn't get a Stone / Mason :-(

now that's the post of the day!
i didn't get one either, but the selling doesn't bother me. i went for a trade on it in LDs and other party wanted to wait to see what they were going for! not much different than ebay. PJ stuff is hot and i love collecting it.

Sarava

doctorvik said:

Maybe I'm just bitter that I didn't get a Stone / Mason :-(

Ironically the Stone single didn't have the customary 'not for resale' when you buy it.

JV130312

Rob Arm said:

Have you been selling fake pocketbooks on eBay

Pocketbooks? Do people still use that term? Might be showing your age bud...

pledgeagrievance

jamburger said:

doctorvik said:

"If we removed your listing, it's probably because it either violated the law or one of our policies. Or, it may have been removed because the item's rights owner (for example, Coach or Louis Vuitton) asked us to remove it. This can happen even if your item is genuine."
from ebay ...

I don't know how well words/phrases like "probably" and "may have" hold up in court.

Actually the "probably" and "May have" makes it easier to argue in court. It leaves many more interpretations to argue

doctorvik

either way - these are not legal issues as eBay can do whatever they want -- if they want to remove your listing they can --