Unfortunately, I agree with others here that his comments came off as unfounded, and as extreme and defensive as Maher and Harris were extreme and offensive. He didn't present his opinions well, in my opinion. I truly found the whole thing to be a sensationalist waste of time.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I like Affleck, and he is clearly a smart person, but was just wondering what qualifies him enough in the subject for people to give a shit? Is it because he wrote Argo?? :-?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I like Affleck, and he is clearly a smart person, but was just wondering what qualifies him enough in the subject for people to give a shit? Is it because he wrote Argo?? :-?
Or maybe because his long-standing friendship with Howard Zinn? Or because we aren't one-dimensional human beings and are often have more than one interest or skill?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I like Affleck, and he is clearly a smart person, but was just wondering what qualifies him enough in the subject for people to give a shit? Is it because he wrote Argo?? :-?
Or maybe because his long-standing friendship with Howard Zinn? Or because we aren't one-dimensional human beings and are often have more than one interest or skill?
He may be more qualified than appears but by the appearances of his comments in the clip here he just seems to be venting without much to back it up. Wondering if there is something more substantial from him on the subject elsewhere?
I'm always a bit wary of well known personalities being given high kudos or credit for their comments on issues outside their line of work. For example, even Neil Young- as much as he has spent a lot of time learning about it and has inspired many to take action and that's very cool and all- his environmental activism has to be taken with a grain of salt because that is not his field of expertise.
Don't get me wrong, benjs, I'm not dismissing Affleck, I'm just saying we should confirm his credentials before giving him too much credit on the subject.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I like Affleck, and he is clearly a smart person, but was just wondering what qualifies him enough in the subject for people to give a shit? Is it because he wrote Argo?? :-?
Or maybe because his long-standing friendship with Howard Zinn? Or because we aren't one-dimensional human beings and are often have more than one interest or skill?
Huh? So you think he should be treated like some kind of authority on the subject of Islam because he is friends with Howard Zinn and isn't one dimensional (no one said he was btw)?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
yeah i can't wait for some dumbasshole goat/devil thing to be erected at oklahoma state capital. i would say i am right, 90some percent of all people are fucked in the head
yeah i can't wait for some dumbasshole goat/devil thing to be erected at oklahoma state capital. i would say i am right, 90some percent of all people are fucked in the head
Holy shit fire and fuck balls, Chawick! That's an interesting thought! Now sure how it fits in with this thread but it certainly does create a vivid image in one's mind!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
A finally watched the video. It is clear to me that it has been some time since Affleck has been in a educated conversation where people disagree with him.
I remember when Jimmy Kimmel made fun of Howie Long on Fox Sunday Football and Affleck made a lot of the same faces Howie made. The kind of face where it has been so long someone made fun of you that your brain is angry and confused.
A finally watched the video. It is clear to me that it has been some time since Affleck has been in a educated conversation where people disagree with him.
I remember when Jimmy Kimmel made fun of Howie Long on Fox Sunday Football and Affleck made a lot of the same faces Howie made. The kind of face where it has been so long someone made fun of you that your brain is angry and confused.
You expressed that perfectly... Just pure exasperation.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I like Affleck, and he is clearly a smart person, but was just wondering what qualifies him enough in the subject for people to give a shit? Is it because he wrote Argo?? :-?
Or maybe because his long-standing friendship with Howard Zinn? Or because we aren't one-dimensional human beings and are often have more than one interest or skill?
Huh? So you think he should be treated like some kind of authority on the subject of Islam because he is friends with Howard Zinn and isn't one dimensional (no one said he was btw)?
I would question ben afflecks presence ln that panel in the first place. I have to say that I am a big fan of affleck but is it possible that he was on bill maher cause hes got movie to prmote and the fact that hes got something to say about islamaphobia, real or perceived and the demonisation of all muslims vs jihadists and islamists just a bonus? What was the maher show hoping to get out of afflecks presence? I for one think they got it.
Post edited by catefrances on
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Interesting article but, WHOA! this writer sure likes to pound out those labels:
-secular humanist leftist -smug pundit -sagacious, purely rational “progressive” -open-minded white liberal -controversial comic -a “truth-lover” -a rich straight white male celebrity -secular master -Maher the martyr
Damn! And that's just the first paragraph! And what, no "fucktards".. Harumph! :-))
(sorry, bb, couldn't resist ;-) )
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Interesting article but, WHOA! this writer sure likes to pound out those labels:
-secular humanist leftist -smug pundit -sagacious, purely rational “progressive” -open-minded white liberal -controversial comic -a “truth-lover” -a rich straight white male celebrity -secular master -Maher the martyr
Damn! And that's just the first paragraph! And what, no "fucktards".. Harumph! :-))
An open letter to Ben Affleck OCTOBER 25, 2014 BY EIYNAH Your heart was in the right place, but…
Dear Ben,
I am writing to you today as a woman who was born and raised in Islam. I saw your discussion with Bill Maher and Sam Harris, and I must say you did me a great disservice that day. Your heart was in the right place, of course, and it was lovely of you to step up and defend ‘my people’.
What you really did though, perhaps inadvertently, was silence a conversation that never gets started. Two people attempted to begin a dialogue and you wouldn’t even listen. Why should any set of ideas be above criticism, Ben?
Why are Muslims being ‘preserved’ in some time capsule of centuries gone by? Why is it okay that we continue to live in a world where our women are compared to candy waiting to be consumed? Why is it okay for women of the rest of the world to fight for freedom and equality while we are told to cover our shameful bodies? Can’t you see that we are being held back from joining this elite club known as the 21st century?
Noble liberals like yourself always stand up for the misrepresented Muslims and stand against the Islamophobes, which is great but who stands in my corner and for the others who feel oppressed by the religion? Every time we raise our voices, one of us is killed or threatened. I am a blogger and illustrator, no threat to anyone, Ben, except for those afraid of words and drawings. I want the freedom to express myself without the very real fear that I might be killed for it. Is that too much to ask?
When I wrote a children’s book that carried a message of diversity and inclusivity for everyone, my life changed. My book, ‘My Chacha (uncle) is Gay’ has the innocent anti-homophobia message, ‘Love belongs to everyone’. This was not palatable to many of my Muslim brothers and sisters.
Since that project I have been declared an ‘enemy of God’ and deemed worthy of death. All because I want to help create a world where South Asian children too can have their stories told, so they too can know that love comes in all forms, and that that’s okay. My Muslim brothers and sisters were hit hard by this work because it addresses the issue of homophobia within our own community. It is not something they can pass off as ‘Western’ immorality. Just like they deny that any issues exist within the doctrine of Islam, many deny that homosexuality exists amongst good, ‘moral’ Muslims. Just like that, millions of people’s existence is denied. Please do not defend people who think this way, and let me tell you Ben, many ‘good’ Muslims do think this way.
What you did by screaming ‘racist!’ was shut down a conversation that many of us have been waiting to have. You helped those who wish to deny there are issues, deny them. You became an instant hero, a defender of Islam. It’s kind, it really is. I understand because I too am plagued and affected by the issues brought about by actual Islamophobia. I have a Muslim name and brown skin, my peaceful relatives have been pushed in the subway and called ‘terrorist’ for no reason.
I get that.
We must distinguish critiquing an ideology from being hateful towards a group of people. And for this reason I think that tackling the issues within Islam should be two-pronged. They must be brought up, but simultaneously we should stress that blame for these issues cannot be placed on individuals.
In the interest of being politically correct and ‘liberal’, we silence the voices of millions. I am turning to you because you were instrumental in starting this conversation. Those of us who want reform are muted by extremists, as well as the liberals who betray us in the name of multiculturalism.
ISIS paints a horrific picture, so I understand the knee-jerk reaction to deny any link. Most Muslims choose to interpret scripture in a peaceful way, but that doesn’t mean the raw material isn’t there for those who choose the path of violence. That material must be addressed.
Can we talk about the blatant double standards and violation of human rights, for a second? Mosques are built throughout western countries, usually without much issue. But in the hub of Islam, the heart of Islam, Saudi Arabia, no one but Muslims are allowed to officially practice their faith. There are no churches, temples or synagogues because Saudi Arabia will not permit any non-Muslim place of worship to exist. Who will hold them accountable for such injustice if we hush everyone who speaks out against Islam?
What is so wrong with wanting to step into the current century? There should be no shame. There is no denying that violence, misogyny and homophobia exist in all religious texts, but Islam is the only religion that is adhered to so literally, to this day.
In your culture you have the luxury of calling such literalists “crazies”, like the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. In my culture, such values are upheld by more people than we realise. Many will try to deny it, but please hear me when I say that these are not fringe values. It is apparent in the lacking numbers of Muslims willing to speak out against the archaic Shariah law. The punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, etc, are tools of oppression. Why are they not addressed even by the peaceful folk who “aren’t fanatical, who just want to have some sandwiches and pray five times a day? Where are the Muslim protestors against blasphemy laws/apostasy? Where are the Muslims who take a stand against harsh interpretation of Shariah? These sandwich-eating peaceful folk do not defend those suffering in the name of Islam, Ben, and therein lies our problem.
Maybe the points Maher and Harris were trying to make are more easily digested when coming from within the community, I can appreciate that. That is why I am writing to you, as someone who has personally been hurt by the lack of acknowledgement of these issues.
If Muslims do not critique their own atrocities, then people on the outside will and their message will not be listened to simply because of who they are. It’s a vicious cycle, one that can only break if indeed, like Harris said, true reformers are empowered.
I ask you and anyone reading this to make an effort to seek out reformers from within our community, and support them in any way you can.
If I were allowed to meet a man that is not my father, brother or husband unchaperoned, I would have loved to discuss this over drinks (which I am also not allowed to have) with you. So, you see, things must change.
Sincerely,
Eiynah
Eiynah Eiynah is a Pakistani-Canadian blogger/illustrator who writes about sexuality in Pakistan. She dreams of a progressive motherland and is also a children's book author. She blogs at www.nicemangos.blogspot.com, and tweets at @Nicemangos.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'm always a bit wary of well known personalities being given high kudos or credit for their comments on issues outside their line of work. For example, even Neil Young- as much as he has spent a lot of time learning about it and has inspired many to take action and that's very cool and all- his environmental activism has to be taken with a grain of salt because that is not his field of expertise.
Don't get me wrong, benjs, I'm not dismissing Affleck, I'm just saying we should confirm his credentials before giving him too much credit on the subject.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I remember when Jimmy Kimmel made fun of Howie Long on Fox Sunday Football and Affleck made a lot of the same faces Howie made. The kind of face where it has been so long someone made fun of you that your brain is angry and confused.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/10/18/bill-maher-liberals-racism-and-patriarchy/
-secular humanist leftist
-smug pundit
-sagacious, purely rational “progressive”
-open-minded white liberal
-controversial comic
-a “truth-lover”
-a rich straight white male celebrity
-secular master
-Maher the martyr
Damn! And that's just the first paragraph! And what, no "fucktards".. Harumph! :-))
(sorry, bb, couldn't resist ;-) )
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2014/10/25/comment/an-open-letter-to-ben-affleck/
An open letter to Ben Affleck
OCTOBER 25, 2014 BY EIYNAH
Your heart was in the right place, but…
Dear Ben,
I am writing to you today as a woman who was born and raised in Islam. I saw your discussion with Bill Maher and Sam Harris, and I must say you did me a great disservice that day. Your heart was in the right place, of course, and it was lovely of you to step up and defend ‘my people’.
What you really did though, perhaps inadvertently, was silence a conversation that never gets started. Two people attempted to begin a dialogue and you wouldn’t even listen. Why should any set of ideas be above criticism, Ben?
Why are Muslims being ‘preserved’ in some time capsule of centuries gone by? Why is it okay that we continue to live in a world where our women are compared to candy waiting to be consumed? Why is it okay for women of the rest of the world to fight for freedom and equality while we are told to cover our shameful bodies? Can’t you see that we are being held back from joining this elite club known as the 21st century?
Noble liberals like yourself always stand up for the misrepresented Muslims and stand against the Islamophobes, which is great but who stands in my corner and for the others who feel oppressed by the religion? Every time we raise our voices, one of us is killed or threatened. I am a blogger and illustrator, no threat to anyone, Ben, except for those afraid of words and drawings. I want the freedom to express myself without the very real fear that I might be killed for it. Is that too much to ask?
When I wrote a children’s book that carried a message of diversity and inclusivity for everyone, my life changed. My book, ‘My Chacha (uncle) is Gay’ has the innocent anti-homophobia message, ‘Love belongs to everyone’. This was not palatable to many of my Muslim brothers and sisters.
Since that project I have been declared an ‘enemy of God’ and deemed worthy of death. All because I want to help create a world where South Asian children too can have their stories told, so they too can know that love comes in all forms, and that that’s okay. My Muslim brothers and sisters were hit hard by this work because it addresses the issue of homophobia within our own community. It is not something they can pass off as ‘Western’ immorality. Just like they deny that any issues exist within the doctrine of Islam, many deny that homosexuality exists amongst good, ‘moral’ Muslims. Just like that, millions of people’s existence is denied. Please do not defend people who think this way, and let me tell you Ben, many ‘good’ Muslims do think this way.
What you did by screaming ‘racist!’ was shut down a conversation that many of us have been waiting to have. You helped those who wish to deny there are issues, deny them. You became an instant hero, a defender of Islam. It’s kind, it really is. I understand because I too am plagued and affected by the issues brought about by actual Islamophobia. I have a Muslim name and brown skin, my peaceful relatives have been pushed in the subway and called ‘terrorist’ for no reason.
I get that.
We must distinguish critiquing an ideology from being hateful towards a group of people. And for this reason I think that tackling the issues within Islam should be two-pronged. They must be brought up, but simultaneously we should stress that blame for these issues cannot be placed on individuals.
In the interest of being politically correct and ‘liberal’, we silence the voices of millions. I am turning to you because you were instrumental in starting this conversation. Those of us who want reform are muted by extremists, as well as the liberals who betray us in the name of multiculturalism.
ISIS paints a horrific picture, so I understand the knee-jerk reaction to deny any link. Most Muslims choose to interpret scripture in a peaceful way, but that doesn’t mean the raw material isn’t there for those who choose the path of violence. That material must be addressed.
Can we talk about the blatant double standards and violation of human rights, for a second? Mosques are built throughout western countries, usually without much issue. But in the hub of Islam, the heart of Islam, Saudi Arabia, no one but Muslims are allowed to officially practice their faith. There are no churches, temples or synagogues because Saudi Arabia will not permit any non-Muslim place of worship to exist. Who will hold them accountable for such injustice if we hush everyone who speaks out against Islam?
What is so wrong with wanting to step into the current century? There should be no shame. There is no denying that violence, misogyny and homophobia exist in all religious texts, but Islam is the only religion that is adhered to so literally, to this day.
In your culture you have the luxury of calling such literalists “crazies”, like the Westboro Baptist Church, for example. In my culture, such values are upheld by more people than we realise. Many will try to deny it, but please hear me when I say that these are not fringe values. It is apparent in the lacking numbers of Muslims willing to speak out against the archaic Shariah law. The punishment for blasphemy and apostasy, etc, are tools of oppression. Why are they not addressed even by the peaceful folk who “aren’t fanatical, who just want to have some sandwiches and pray five times a day? Where are the Muslim protestors against blasphemy laws/apostasy? Where are the Muslims who take a stand against harsh interpretation of Shariah? These sandwich-eating peaceful folk do not defend those suffering in the name of Islam, Ben, and therein lies our problem.
Maybe the points Maher and Harris were trying to make are more easily digested when coming from within the community, I can appreciate that. That is why I am writing to you, as someone who has personally been hurt by the lack of acknowledgement of these issues.
If Muslims do not critique their own atrocities, then people on the outside will and their message will not be listened to simply because of who they are. It’s a vicious cycle, one that can only break if indeed, like Harris said, true reformers are empowered.
I ask you and anyone reading this to make an effort to seek out reformers from within our community, and support them in any way you can.
If I were allowed to meet a man that is not my father, brother or husband unchaperoned, I would have loved to discuss this over drinks (which I am also not allowed to have) with you. So, you see, things must change.
Sincerely,
Eiynah
Eiynah
Eiynah is a Pakistani-Canadian blogger/illustrator who writes about sexuality in Pakistan. She dreams of a progressive motherland and is also a children's book author. She blogs at www.nicemangos.blogspot.com, and tweets at @Nicemangos.