Diary of a shy person and the Internet Forums
Walking the miles
Posts: 548
I’d like to give a different perspective. I’ve been a long time reader of these forum pages and not often a contributor. I’m by nature, a shy person in some respects. I’ll get back to that…..What needs to be kept in mind when using the internet forum to have heated debates, is that the person you are dealing with is not seen. There is not that personal contact to see with your eyes how the words that are spoken are affecting that person. People tend to act differently when in person, and the audience to that debate, reacts differently, when in person. There, generally, are social cues that people follow. I’ve been in many debates with groups of friends when we get together. Sometimes, they get heated. Sometimes, certain people within the group will attempt to dominate the conversation, somewhat. That’s fine. They feel strongly about the topic. But as a social group we do not allow people to be belittled or made to feel stupid. If someone does that in the midst of a debate we call them on it, ”Hey, you’re outta line”. Now, if it’s two people that are a bit of “hotheads” or type “A” personalities, then maybe we’d let it go for a bit (entertainment purposes), but that is because when in person we can see the visual clues to how someone is being affected by the words being used. I guess, also because we do know each other well, also.
The point I wanted to get to is this, if we were in a room together rather then on an internet forum, would we stand for any belittling, or people to be made to feel stupid? Would we stand for name calling? I would doubt that we would. You would have the visual clues that someone was being affected by that behaviour, and I hope it would make you feel sick. So you would mediate, you would tell the person to stop. Or, maybe as a group you would just stop listening to the person. Something. The difference with the internet is that you don’t have that visual clue. Often that is why typed words are often taken way out of context. There is no visual clue telling you that what is being said is meant to be a joke, or something else. Hence, I guess why emoticons become valuable. But I digress. So, when we don’t see the person, we forget, or don’t realize, how are words, or the words of others, may be affecting that person when we type them. We travel through the debate and we don’t necessarily know how we are affecting the people involved because there are no visual cues to let you know. I think, it’s often why people are more outspoken and perhaps less concerned about being offensive when on the internet. They do not see the pain they inflict. Some I suppose, don’t care, but most I believe, would care.
So, because it’s near impossible to conduct these forum debates in person, how do you continue to have debates on an internet forum and have them be fair to all? You self-edit, and be ever vigilant about how the words that you speak may be felt by another. And how, as an organization do you host such a place where these debates happen? You set ground rules and guidelines that are to be followed. You keep an arms length distance, and you moderate, and you act when needed.
As I said, near the beginning of this long blurb, I’m a shy person. I’ve spent my lifetime thinking about my shyness. Why am I shy? What is it to be shy? So far, (because life is a full journey) I’ve come to the realization that shy people care what other people think of them. Perhaps, and more then likely, too much so. That’s what keeps us silent. We are afraid of what people will think of us. If the shyness is serious enough it can be debilitating. But, I think there can be a benefit to shyness, and it is this. Because we are silent, we become observant. We can observe very well and when you are observant you can see the pain people feel, that others may not necessarily notice, or be sensitive to. I think, most people by and large, have some degree of shyness. It is in all the varying degrees of shyness that we exist that is different. With this varying degree comes the degree in which we are sensitive to the feelings of other people. So,when you have a physical wall between you and others, as when you are on the internet, that shyness is lowered. So when that shyness is lowered, one can become emboldened. But we should be careful because along with that shyness, the sensitivity to others can be lowered as well.
I just think as a group we need to be aware of this. The internet is still a relatively new way of communication in the world. I think as pioneers to this forum of interaction we haven’t traversed or navigated all the waters as yet, and hence we should attempt to tread lightly and feel are way around carefully. We should take stock of how things progress and make changes when we see things are not working well.
I know this has been a long read (maybe it was pent up), I apologize for that. As I’m not sure how to end this, and I could go on and on, I’ll end it with this. I battle with my shyness on a daily basis, that’s ok. That’s my cross. When you are in a battle, the dangerous part is when you don’t realize you’re in one, or you can’t identify it. My eyes were opened when I heard a song. It helped me come to a realization. It was Ed covering a Cat Stevens (now Yusuf Islam) song. It was in San Deigo, I did not hear it in person but heard it on the bootleg. “Don’t be Shy”. It changed me, it woke me to the battle I was in, and allowed me to face it head on. I’ll be forever grateful to Ed, for bringing it to me, and to Yusuf Islam for writing that beautiful, personal song. Thank you. And thank you to this forum which allows someone, like me, to post on their site, what I feel, without fear.
The point I wanted to get to is this, if we were in a room together rather then on an internet forum, would we stand for any belittling, or people to be made to feel stupid? Would we stand for name calling? I would doubt that we would. You would have the visual clues that someone was being affected by that behaviour, and I hope it would make you feel sick. So you would mediate, you would tell the person to stop. Or, maybe as a group you would just stop listening to the person. Something. The difference with the internet is that you don’t have that visual clue. Often that is why typed words are often taken way out of context. There is no visual clue telling you that what is being said is meant to be a joke, or something else. Hence, I guess why emoticons become valuable. But I digress. So, when we don’t see the person, we forget, or don’t realize, how are words, or the words of others, may be affecting that person when we type them. We travel through the debate and we don’t necessarily know how we are affecting the people involved because there are no visual cues to let you know. I think, it’s often why people are more outspoken and perhaps less concerned about being offensive when on the internet. They do not see the pain they inflict. Some I suppose, don’t care, but most I believe, would care.
So, because it’s near impossible to conduct these forum debates in person, how do you continue to have debates on an internet forum and have them be fair to all? You self-edit, and be ever vigilant about how the words that you speak may be felt by another. And how, as an organization do you host such a place where these debates happen? You set ground rules and guidelines that are to be followed. You keep an arms length distance, and you moderate, and you act when needed.
As I said, near the beginning of this long blurb, I’m a shy person. I’ve spent my lifetime thinking about my shyness. Why am I shy? What is it to be shy? So far, (because life is a full journey) I’ve come to the realization that shy people care what other people think of them. Perhaps, and more then likely, too much so. That’s what keeps us silent. We are afraid of what people will think of us. If the shyness is serious enough it can be debilitating. But, I think there can be a benefit to shyness, and it is this. Because we are silent, we become observant. We can observe very well and when you are observant you can see the pain people feel, that others may not necessarily notice, or be sensitive to. I think, most people by and large, have some degree of shyness. It is in all the varying degrees of shyness that we exist that is different. With this varying degree comes the degree in which we are sensitive to the feelings of other people. So,when you have a physical wall between you and others, as when you are on the internet, that shyness is lowered. So when that shyness is lowered, one can become emboldened. But we should be careful because along with that shyness, the sensitivity to others can be lowered as well.
I just think as a group we need to be aware of this. The internet is still a relatively new way of communication in the world. I think as pioneers to this forum of interaction we haven’t traversed or navigated all the waters as yet, and hence we should attempt to tread lightly and feel are way around carefully. We should take stock of how things progress and make changes when we see things are not working well.
I know this has been a long read (maybe it was pent up), I apologize for that. As I’m not sure how to end this, and I could go on and on, I’ll end it with this. I battle with my shyness on a daily basis, that’s ok. That’s my cross. When you are in a battle, the dangerous part is when you don’t realize you’re in one, or you can’t identify it. My eyes were opened when I heard a song. It helped me come to a realization. It was Ed covering a Cat Stevens (now Yusuf Islam) song. It was in San Deigo, I did not hear it in person but heard it on the bootleg. “Don’t be Shy”. It changed me, it woke me to the battle I was in, and allowed me to face it head on. I’ll be forever grateful to Ed, for bringing it to me, and to Yusuf Islam for writing that beautiful, personal song. Thank you. And thank you to this forum which allows someone, like me, to post on their site, what I feel, without fear.
"Feel the path of everyday....which road you taking?"
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
0
Comments
There are many great people here, and the disagreements are almost always enlightening. We all have something to say, and many times it will be something someone else hasn't heard or thought of before. The more voices in the mix, the better we all are.
And, at the end of the day, we do all share a love of the same great band. If nothing else, there is always that to bring us together.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I can be shy too - moreso in a group setting vs one-on-one (though not necessarily silent!), and I love what you said about it contributing to observing. Not the only way to "see" but certainly a powerful component of it.
Look forward to reading more from you, and agreed with the others - continue to post.
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
Kudos to you for sharing this, it's hard to recognize a fear of speaking up in yourself but it's the first step to the empowerment you attain by pushing through it. It was incredibly hard for me to speak up here at first, but the onus is on us whose voices aren't being beaten into submission by our governments to share information that is not being disseminated in mainstream media.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Don't hate.
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
i was shy when i was a kid & i still can be today at 42 yrs. frig all that! i learned to speak my mind & feelings by doing it. making myself get over certain fears, big or small.
the internets can help get things opened up inside. type what is on your mind & go with it. do this everyday & do it in eye to eye life. we are supposed to accept & embrace our fears & conquer them one step at a time.
living by this code i must parachute someday. hey, i've got on a plane 3 times, no we weren't skydiving. but still i was terrified but did it & was as nervous as a 'blank in church'
in my thinking ppl aren't meant to jump out of planes nor even be flying .... im fucking jammed up, man. how do i get over my fear of heights/flying?
bridges freak me out
mountain roads freak me out
getting on & off a roof freaks me out
another thing... how do we be different on here vs' eye to eye life? i'm the same friggin guy & im pretty sure i'm not changing much although i'll admit to holding back a lot on here
good luck, sir
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
A stranger one is a totally overwhelming sense of claustrophobia that comes over me when I'm walking on an escalator that isn't moving. Bizarre, eh?
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
Ever seen the dude who scales almost-vertical mountains with no equipment, no harnesses? Admirable balls there but gives me the heebie-jeebies just watching him.
Online vs face-to-face, hmmm...I've shared things here I typically wouldn't with those in my "real" life except the few closest to me - and vice versa. The acts of typing and literally speaking are each cathartic in their own way, but me, my self, is as me as I can get.
I do mostly only read all this stuff here. My English isn´t that good so I often don´t write what I would like to say bc it´s so difficult if you want to explane some complex stuff in a foreign language especially on The Moving Train. But I hope it will get better and people can understand what I want to say.
I can only say I like this place and people here so much! >:D<
I still work on being more vocal in person, but I'm still a introvert (introverts rule!) and I'm still pretty quiet especially in large groups. As a fellow shy person, and I know it's easier to say than do, but do try to not care what others think. We think too much, and maybe if we care a little bit less what others think of us, we allow ourselves to be free, at least for a moment.
I appreciate your post and mentioning bringing empathy into the equation. Empathy IS important, and I totally agree with you when communicating on the internet.
Bravo.
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Barrie, ON '98
Toronto, ON '00/'03/'06/'09/'11/'16(x2)
Hamilton, ON '05/'11
Newark, NJ '10
London, ON '13
Buffalo, NY '13
Detroit, MI '14
Ottawa, ON '16
The second is Toastmasters. I would literally have heart palpitations when I gave presentations in university. After attending and participating in weekly Toastmasters meetings for just a few months, I can confidently present ideas off the cuff now to small teams and even senior management members within our company without feeling my heart rate rise, and have learnt many invaluable skills which help me formulate and express ideas coherently. Our fine city has too many Toastmasters clubs to count, thankfully, and you can attend for up to three or four sessions typically at a club before they ask you to pay the nominal fees (typically about $10 a month).
Next up, strange enough, is meditation or the attainment of a mantra. Meditation is not something that requires you to lock yourself in a room to do it; when studying at a monastery, I learnt about walking meditation techniques, as well as how to enter states of mindfulness even amongst chaotic situations ripe with sensory overload. My mantra of choice is Nepal's practically national mantra: ohm mani padme hum (the jewel of the lotus is the literal translation). When I repeat this, possibly because of the memories that I associate it with, an overwhelming sense of calm comes over me and the litany of fears I may have had are swept away.
Finally, hang around here. There are people who aim to beat people down, but I like to think we take care of each other here, and don't tolerate that kind of junk.
As you expressed perfectly, just keep on jumping in. Anxiety is a byproduct of contemplation, and while rash decisions aren't always great ones, the decision to express yourself is one that's worth making an exception for.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
A stranger one is a totally overwhelming sense of claustrophobia that comes over me when I'm walking on an escalator that isn't moving. Bizarre, eh?"
have you engineered bridges? buildings? stadiums?
claustrophobic while walking on a escalator that's standing still.... shit, you are jammed up
i am claustrophobic when air is stale or in a mri tube or when sitting in those little rooms with the model knees & backs, medical posters & the good dr.s degrees framed on the walls.... the fucking door is closed & the room is small & there is no windows & you're sitting on the exam table with the paper sheet down the length of it.... the damn room the nurse takes vitals in & you wait to see the dr... fuck that room
i've gotten up, opened the door & walked in circles doing laps waiting on the dr or the nurse. i don't like those rooms & i would rather have the door open, they would not though. it's like im frankenstein in a small bathroom & im going ape shit crazy trying to pee or two & the sink is on top of me. im trying to shower & the toilet is half way in the shower & the water pressure is like a toad spitting water on me. wtf!? i can't move.
now im fucking shy again
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Now Im petrified of heights, cant go up a ladder or two story buildings, hate bridges and esculators, i wont go in a boat now letalone get in the water anywhere too scared and now im petrified to drive, and if i come close to doing these things it involves stress and or panick attacks....the strangest thing is, I know that fear can disappear and i can do those things again, and if you ask me how i know that, well i have experienced it, but for the moment the fear is very strong and it can come on just as it can leave as well, and i honestly cant explain why.....
You shouldn't be shy....do you know how much chicks dig Frankenstein in a small bathroom?!
They go crazy over him. Not every girl speaks about it , but there ain't a girl in the world who doesn't want a Frankenstein in their small bathroom.
not a one
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
too shy to publish it
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
During
After
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce