Yield

RockKing

PissBottleMan wrote:

I think we can evolve, but we shouldn't have to abandon our principles, our ethics, our morals. It seems that greed and an egotistical attitude are byproducts of our evolution.

Why is "our way" (that of man) assumed to be the correct way?

PBM

Man, I missed some good discussions. I would just add to this that "our way" tends to be the nature of species. Lions don't give a fuck about anyone other than lions. The fact that we can even consider the survival of other species makes us far superior to most other species.

I always kinda look at it like that line in Spiderman, "With great power comes great responsibility". We've been blessed with consciousness, but it's up to us to decide how we are going to use it. Do we use it to benefit ourselves, our nations, our planet? I would like to think that mankind will someday figure it out and look at things that benefit the planet as a whole. But I'm not sure there's an inherent morality or sense of one way being "right" or "wrong". To me, at the end of the day, we have conscious thought and it's ours to use however we see fit. It will be the "wrong" decision if we end up destroying the planet and therefore eliminate ourselves as a species. I think the order of life kinda dictates that.

Of course, granted, this doesn't even take into consideration the possiblity of spiritual beings. If you take God into consideration, this whole conversation changes.

PissBottleMan

RockKing wrote:

We've been blessed with consciousness, but it's up to us to decide how we are going to use it. Do we use it to benefit ourselves, our nations, our planet?

The self will win. "Me before you" seems to be the way of the land...wouldn't you agree.

I don't want to make a blanket statement, but it seems that's the way things operate.

PBM

RockKing

PissBottleMan wrote:

The self will win. "Me before you" seems to be the way of the land...wouldn't you agree.

I don't want to make a blanket statement, but it seems that's the way things operate.

PBM

No, I agree that we are by nature selfish. My only question is whether this is truly bad. Is there such a thing as universal morality?

PissBottleMan

RockKing wrote:

My only question is whether this is truly bad. Is there such a thing as universal morality?

Again, I want to shy away from generalizations, but I think there can be common ground.

Look at PMPM:

"I had a false belief, I thought we came here to stay"

We can agree that we're not the end all, be all. Actually, we all can't agree on that, can we?



PBM

RockKing

PissBottleMan wrote:

Again, I want to shy away from generalizations, but I think there can be common ground.

Look at PMPM:

"I had a false belief, I thought we came here to stay"

We can agree that we're not the end all, be all. Actually, we all can't agree on that, can we?



PBM

I'm primarily playing devil's advocate here. I agree with you for the most part. Just trying to stimulate some dialogue. I have certain beliefs about what is right and wrong, especially in regards to our duty to ourselves, others, and the planet. But where do these beliefs come from? Is it a learned response? I suppose it is. I think I'm a good person, but is that only because I am comparing myself to the standards of those whose morals I agree with?

As a bad example, if I compared myself to an islamic extremist, I would think of myself as a good person, but the extremist wouldn't see it that way. He would find me to be a quite immoral person. Who's right here and who's wrong?

Which all goes to your initial question of why do we assume that man's way is the right way? I think it's our nature to do so. We can only hold ourselves up to the standards of those things which we know. Because we are self-aware, we are also capable of being selfish in a way that is unique to other species. Hence the "with great power comes great responsibility" thing. We must take some things upon ourselves if we want to create the standards of life that we most desire.

PissBottleMan

I guess it comes down to how you decide to live your life...upon what doctrine or philosophy you subscribe to. Since many people yield to their own ideology, it really is hard to come up with a definitive answer...and even then, it's probably flawed.

PBM

RockKing

PissBottleMan wrote:

I guess it comes down to how you decide to live your life...upon what doctrine or philosophy you subscribe to. Since many people yield to their own ideology, it really is hard to come up with a definitive answer.

PBM

Exactly. But even in choosing on how you to decide to live your life, there's a certain selfishness within even that. We tend not to let others tell us how to live our lives. WE decide it for OURSELVES.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Moral Relativity course I took in college. It's a lot of circular logic and semantic arguments. At the end of the day, we choose to live our lives in a good and decent way as defined by the society we live in, or we choose to live outside of those norms. I think the most universal way to define a "good" person is anyone who shows the capacity to care for the well being of others and to take the survival and success of the species as a whole, if not the entire planetary ecosystem, into account when deciding our courses of action. If everyone could live up to those standards, one could only assume that the standard and quality of life for everyone would improve.

PissBottleMan

Also...do we continue to evolve and advance (thereby damaging cultures, the earth, etc) because we know we're too far along to change anything.

If the end result is death, then what difference does it make, right? That's not a responsible way of looking at things, but it seems to be a concept that "The Takers" subscribe to.

PBM

PissBottleMan

RockKing wrote:

If everyone could live up to those standards, one could only assume that the standard and quality of life for everyone would improve.

Ideally, I'd like to believe that.

But, I think we're too far gone.

Once you go forward, it's almost impossible to turn back.

PBM

RockKing

PissBottleMan wrote:

Also...do we continue to evolve and advance (thereby damaging cultures, the earth, etc) because we know we're too far along to change anything.

If the end result is death, then what difference does it make, right? That's not a responsible way of looking at things, but it seems to be a concept that "The Takers" subscribe to.

PBM

Kind of like the person who, upon being diagnosed with a terminal illness, chooses to live the rest of his life in extreme decadence? That's a very good question. Have we already made this decision, or are we simply like the smokers who continue to abuse their body despite the surgeon general's warnings?

RockKing

PissBottleMan wrote:

Ideally, I'd like to believe that.

But, I think we're too far gone.

Once you go forward, it's almost impossible to turn back.

PBM

It's hard to say. I think we may not be too far gone yet, but I'm more worried about the speed of technology allowing us to fall into this abyss at exponential speeds, thus meaning we'll fly past the point of no return long before we even realize such a point exists.

reznors edge

I started losing interest in the band around Yield era. I loved Vitology and NoCode, but Yield was just too stale and safe for my liking. As bands like Tool and Radiohead were releasing really innovative, amazing stuff, PJ started becoming too bland around this time. I havn't listened to this album in a long time.
However, All Those Yesterdays and Low Light are some of my favorate songs from them. And Wishlist is good to get your g-friend in the mood!

danny

i love it dont you think you"ve had enough!well maybe

not a bloody chance!

PissBottleMan

reznor's edge wrote:

I started losing interest in the band around Yield era. I loved Vitology and NoCode, but Yield was just too stale and safe for my liking. As bands like Tool and Radiohead were releasing really innovative, amazing stuff, PJ started becoming too bland around this time. I havn't listened to this album in a long time.
However, All Those Yesterdays and Low Light are some of my favorate songs from them. And Wishlist is good to get your g-friend in the mood!

Interesting take...you may want to dig deeper...based on some of the bands you mentioned, there may be some underlying themes that you might enjoy.

PBM

danny

reznor's edge wrote:

I started losing interest in the band around Yield era. I loved Vitology and NoCode, but Yield was just too stale and safe for my liking. As bands like Tool and Radiohead were releasing really innovative, amazing stuff, PJ started becoming too bland around this time. I havn't listened to this album in a long time.
However, All Those Yesterdays and Low Light are some of my favorate songs from them. And Wishlist is good to get your g-friend in the mood!

vitalogy isnt a touch on yield!

PissBottleMan

I know we touched on it last week, but tomorrow is my official 9 year anniversary of my first show.

Knoxville '98.

Good times.

PBM

YieldInHiding

PissBottleMan wrote:

I know we touched on it last week, but tomorrow is my official 9 year anniversary of my first show.

Knoxville '98.

Good times.

PBM

I believe Anthony Soprano once said:

"Remember when is the lowest form of communication."

PissBottleMan

YieldInHiding wrote:

"Remember when is the lowest form of communication."

Ouch! You could be on to something.

PBM

YieldInHiding

PissBottleMan wrote:

Ouch! You could be on to something.

PBM

It's a good reminder to keep looking to the future. Remembering the overlying message of infinite possibilities that YIELD gives us is important.

PissBottleMan

*Courtesy of TFT:

09/06/98 - Thompson-Boling Arena: Knoxville, TN [114m]

attendance: 24,535

support act: Mudhoney

soundcheck: Leaving Here, Whipping, Present Tense

set: Long Road, Corduroy, Brain of J, Given to Fly, Animal, Red Mosquito, Jeremy, Whipping, Wishlist, Lukin, Even Flow, Habit, MFC, Present Tense, Daughter/(My Heart Will Go On)/(Monkey Gone to Heaven), Better Man, Alive

enc 1: Go, RVM, Do the Evolution, Hard to Imagine, Black, Last Kiss

enc 2: Leaving Here

notes: After 'Brain of J,' Ed steps up and says, "I hate to say it, but you guys are kinda quiet," but after the first encore he says, "I knew you guys would liven up." He messes up the second verse in 'Even Flow,' forgets it completely and gets the next one right (with the crowd helping) and looks out and says, "Got that fucker right, didn't I?" The 'Habit' line is along the lines of "speaking as a man who loves everyone regardless of race, creed, color or sexual preference." After 'MFC,' Ed takes a swig of beer and a woman yells, "Hey, Ed! Gimme some of that beer," prompting him to respond: "What? All I heard was 'Hey, Ed. Gimme some of that either beer, pick or your dick' ... and I got lots of beer, lots of picks and only one dick ... and I ain't wasting it on a boring ass place like Knoxville." After the next song, Ed singles her out and gives her his pick. Ed talks about how there isn't much to do in Knoxville on a Saturday night. He says he watched SNL and masturbated. 'My Heart Will Go On' is the Celine Dion (Titanic theme) song ("near, far, wherever you are ...) !!! During 'Alive,' Ed notices a fan a Cubs jersey and mouths "Cubbie fan?" The dude says "yeah" and Ed mouths "Atta boy." During 'RVM,' Stone is dazed-looking during the jam, and Ed steps up and stares at his hands as he plays. Stone startles, noticing Ed and they both die laughing and Ed mouths "Rock on, son." 'Hard to Imagine' is introduces as as song that probably "only 1 or 2 or 10 or 20" people in the audience has heard before. Mike has difficulty with his typically long solo during 'Black,' so he cuts it short, looking frustrated. Ed introduces 'Last Kiss' by saying he used to think 'Black' was the saddest song he had ever heard until he heard 'Last Kiss.' Thompson-Boiling Arena is the home of the Univ. of TN basketball champions and Ed picks up on this, noting that "women kick ass in this building," leading to 'Leaving Here.' All night PJ is in great spirits, with Ed fucking around with the crowd up front ... lots of picks tossed out and spit flying. Mike seemed to have trouble with his sound as he cuts his solos down quite a bit, but still plays in fine form. Ed and Stone kept breaking guitar strings.

PBM