Beheaded by ISIS

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  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    What a revisionist thing to say.
    You don't consider about a million deaths, untold displacements, and birth defect/cancer rates off the charts to be a "real horror show"?
    Of course not, because we secured our economic interests.
    Birth defect/cancer rates? What the hell are you talking about?
    Professor might need to go back to school.
  • lanoisseforp
    lanoisseforp Posts: 469
    Maybe the OP is a warmongering American Supporter that thinks it's cool to get revenge towards the Muslims because it hates their fucking religion?

    I remember when originally this thread was called "Beheaded by Muslims".
    Why did you change it OP?

    ...
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    What a revisionist thing to say.
    You don't consider about a million deaths, untold displacements, and birth defect/cancer rates off the charts to be a "real horror show"?
    Of course not, because we secured our economic interests.
    Birth defect/cancer rates? What the hell are you talking about?
    Talking about the effects of bombing use of depleted Uranium shells and white phosphorus used by the US and "coalition" on the population of Iraq. Here is a tidbit from the Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology that focused on maternity hospitals in the cities of Basra and Fallujah:
    .Between October 1994 and October 1995, the number of birth defects per 1,000 live births in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 1.37. In 2003, the number of birth defects in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 23 per 1,000 livebirths. Within less than a decade, the occurrence of congenital birth defects increased by an astonishing 17-fold in the same hospital. By 2009, the maternity hospital witnessed a staggering 48 birth defects per 1,000 live births."
    And in 2010 the number dropped back to 29 birth defects per 1,000 which isn't statistically significant from the 23 in the first year of study when the invasion began. People love stopping at the 2009 number when they quote that study cause it's sexy. Next time read beyond the abstract and dig into the numbers. As a professor that's what I have my MSc. student's do.

    Also...your jump from uranium shells and white phosphorus is nowhere to be found in that study. The author does mention the possibility of lead and mercury contamination but can't make any definitive conclusion as to what caused the increase (if it really is even an increase at all as data is not verifiable/reliable...guess we just have to take their word for it). For all we know the defects could be related to the chemical weapon munitions that were also making American service people sick? Who knows?

    Either way...assuming everything you say is true...a single future atrocity will not be prevented and it will actually get worse. Chemical weapons are being used in Syria, an ISIS/Shia war is about to burn through the region. The real genocide has only begun. This is the foreign policy you all want. You win. Enjoy.

    Edit - to be a professor you need to be 4 days on faculty. With me being only 2 days at my peak my actual title was assistant professor. Now I'm down to guest appearances which makes me an associate professor.

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    What a revisionist thing to say.
    You don't consider about a million deaths, untold displacements, and birth defect/cancer rates off the charts to be a "real horror show"?
    Of course not, because we secured our economic interests.
    Birth defect/cancer rates? What the hell are you talking about?
    Talking about the effects of bombing use of depleted Uranium shells and white phosphorus used by the US and "coalition" on the population of Iraq. Here is a tidbit from the Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology that focused on maternity hospitals in the cities of Basra and Fallujah:
    .Between October 1994 and October 1995, the number of birth defects per 1,000 live births in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 1.37. In 2003, the number of birth defects in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 23 per 1,000 livebirths. Within less than a decade, the occurrence of congenital birth defects increased by an astonishing 17-fold in the same hospital. By 2009, the maternity hospital witnessed a staggering 48 birth defects per 1,000 live births."
    And in 2010 the number dropped back to 29 birth defects per 1,000 which isn't statistically significant from the 23 in the first year of study when the invasion began. People love stopping at the 2009 number when they quote that study cause it's sexy. Next time read beyond the abstract and dig into the numbers. As a professor that's what I have my MSc. student's do.

    Also...your jump from uranium shells and white phosphorus is nowhere to be found in that study. The author does mention the possibility of lead and mercury contamination but can't make any definitive conclusion as to what caused the increase (if it really is even an increase at all as data is not verifiable/reliable...guess we just have to take their word for it). For all we know the defects could be related to the chemical weapon munitions that were also making American service people sick? Who knows?

    Either way...assuming everything you say is true...a single future atrocity will not be prevented and it will actually get worse. Chemical weapons are being used in Syria, an ISIS/Shia war is about to burn through the region. The real genocide has only begun. This is the foreign policy you all want. You win. Enjoy.

    Edit - to be a professor you need to be 4 days on faculty. With me being only 2 days at my peak my actual title was assistant professor. Now I'm down to guest appearances which makes me an associate professor.

    I don't know where to start...I won't bother, it's the same as the global warming issue.
    You are a real piece of work, your tactics are refined and dangerous, using distractions and trying to discredit universally credible sources to blur the discussion. You know the principles of reason, logic, and scientific method well enough to subvert them to suit your own obfuscations...such as suggesting that 23 out of 1,000 isn't significant because it is only slightly higher than the initial data. That initial data is post-invasion, and significantly above normative levels, not to mention much higher than a previous data set that is entirely relevant.. you know it, but you try to use a minor technicality to create doubt around an obvious conclusion.
    Levels falling as troops increased actually supports the conclusion that heavy bombing is the cause, as the initial bombing phase subsided with the ground troop increase.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    What a revisionist thing to say.
    You don't consider about a million deaths, untold displacements, and birth defect/cancer rates off the charts to be a "real horror show"?
    Of course not, because we secured our economic interests.
    Birth defect/cancer rates? What the hell are you talking about?
    Talking about the effects of bombing use of depleted Uranium shells and white phosphorus used by the US and "coalition" on the population of Iraq. Here is a tidbit from the Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology that focused on maternity hospitals in the cities of Basra and Fallujah:
    .Between October 1994 and October 1995, the number of birth defects per 1,000 live births in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 1.37. In 2003, the number of birth defects in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 23 per 1,000 livebirths. Within less than a decade, the occurrence of congenital birth defects increased by an astonishing 17-fold in the same hospital. By 2009, the maternity hospital witnessed a staggering 48 birth defects per 1,000 live births."
    And in 2010 the number dropped back to 29 birth defects per 1,000 which isn't statistically significant from the 23 in the first year of study when the invasion began. People love stopping at the 2009 number when they quote that study cause it's sexy. Next time read beyond the abstract and dig into the numbers. As a professor that's what I have my MSc. student's do.

    Also...your jump from uranium shells and white phosphorus is nowhere to be found in that study. The author does mention the possibility of lead and mercury contamination but can't make any definitive conclusion as to what caused the increase (if it really is even an increase at all as data is not verifiable/reliable...guess we just have to take their word for it). For all we know the defects could be related to the chemical weapon munitions that were also making American service people sick? Who knows?

    Either way...assuming everything you say is true...a single future atrocity will not be prevented and it will actually get worse. Chemical weapons are being used in Syria, an ISIS/Shia war is about to burn through the region. The real genocide has only begun. This is the foreign policy you all want. You win. Enjoy.

    Edit - to be a professor you need to be 4 days on faculty. With me being only 2 days at my peak my actual title was assistant professor. Now I'm down to guest appearances which makes me an associate professor.

    I don't know where to start...I won't bother, it's the same as the global warming issue.
    You are a real piece of work, your tactics are refined and dangerous, using distractions and trying to discredit universally credible sources to blur the discussion. You know the principles of reason, logic, and scientific method well enough to subvert them to suit your own obfuscations...such as suggesting that 23 out of 1,000 isn't significant because it is only slightly higher than the initial data. That initial data is post-invasion, and significantly above normative levels, not to mention much higher than a previous data set that is entirely relevant.. you know it, but you try to use a minor technicality to create doubt around an obvious conclusion.
    Levels falling as troops increased actually supports the conclusion that heavy bombing is the cause, as the initial bombing phase subsided with the ground troop increase.
    Befuddled troops.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,979
    Where's the return on our investments?

    https://www.nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    edited May 2015
    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    What a revisionist thing to say.
    You don't consider about a million deaths, untold displacements, and birth defect/cancer rates off the charts to be a "real horror show"?
    Of course not, because we secured our economic interests.
    Birth defect/cancer rates? What the hell are you talking about?
    Talking about the effects of bombing use of depleted Uranium shells and white phosphorus used by the US and "coalition" on the population of Iraq. Here is a tidbit from the Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology that focused on maternity hospitals in the cities of Basra and Fallujah:
    .Between October 1994 and October 1995, the number of birth defects per 1,000 live births in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 1.37. In 2003, the number of birth defects in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 23 per 1,000 livebirths. Within less than a decade, the occurrence of congenital birth defects increased by an astonishing 17-fold in the same hospital. By 2009, the maternity hospital witnessed a staggering 48 birth defects per 1,000 live births."
    And in 2010 the number dropped back to 29 birth defects per 1,000 which isn't statistically significant from the 23 in the first year of study when the invasion began. People love stopping at the 2009 number when they quote that study cause it's sexy. Next time read beyond the abstract and dig into the numbers. As a professor that's what I have my MSc. student's do.

    Also...your jump from uranium shells and white phosphorus is nowhere to be found in that study. The author does mention the possibility of lead and mercury contamination but can't make any definitive conclusion as to what caused the increase (if it really is even an increase at all as data is not verifiable/reliable...guess we just have to take their word for it). For all we know the defects could be related to the chemical weapon munitions that were also making American service people sick? Who knows?

    Either way...assuming everything you say is true...a single future atrocity will not be prevented and it will actually get worse. Chemical weapons are being used in Syria, an ISIS/Shia war is about to burn through the region. The real genocide has only begun. This is the foreign policy you all want. You win. Enjoy.

    Edit - to be a professor you need to be 4 days on faculty. With me being only 2 days at my peak my actual title was assistant professor. Now I'm down to guest appearances which makes me an associate professor.

    I don't know where to start...I won't bother, it's the same as the global warming issue.
    You are a real piece of work, your tactics are refined and dangerous, using distractions and trying to discredit universally credible sources to blur the discussion. You know the principles of reason, logic, and scientific method well enough to subvert them to suit your own obfuscations...such as suggesting that 23 out of 1,000 isn't significant because it is only slightly higher than the initial data. That initial data is post-invasion, and significantly above normative levels, not to mention much higher than a previous data set that is entirely relevant.. you know it, but you try to use a minor technicality to create doubt around an obvious conclusion.
    Levels falling as troops increased actually supports the conclusion that heavy bombing is the cause, as the initial bombing phase subsided with the ground troop increase.
    You don't know where to start because you have not actually read the study or evaluated it from a scientific perspective. If you were in a thesis defense right now the committee would tear your postulations apart. Let's take your very last point for instance: Did you know the number of defects rose again in 2011 to 37? So as you say it was normal for the numbers to fall in 2010 because the US wasn't bombing anymore but then the number climbed again in 2011 at the height of the pacification? How do you explain that climb in defects again? There was very little bombing that year? Hmmm. Your theory is unsupported by the data. Again...do yourself a favour and do not post a scientific study where you have only read the abstract as it just makes you look silly. If you want to make a greater point about how war is evil then just make the damn point...you won't get an argument here.

    Edit - probably good to mention as well that the birth defects they diagnosed were also primarily folate dependent. That means adequate access to folic acid during pregnancy might have prevented some of these defects. Sanctions and war probably reduced access so if not the bombs you still get to blame the US.
    Post edited by BS44325 on
  • InHiding80
    InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    edited May 2015
    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    What a revisionist thing to say.
    You don't consider about a million deaths, untold displacements, and birth defect/cancer rates off the charts to be a "real horror show"?
    Of course not, because we secured our economic interests.
    Birth defect/cancer rates? What the hell are you talking about?
    Talking about the effects of bombing use of depleted Uranium shells and white phosphorus used by the US and "coalition" on the population of Iraq. Here is a tidbit from the Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology that focused on maternity hospitals in the cities of Basra and Fallujah:
    .Between October 1994 and October 1995, the number of birth defects per 1,000 live births in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 1.37. In 2003, the number of birth defects in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 23 per 1,000 livebirths. Within less than a decade, the occurrence of congenital birth defects increased by an astonishing 17-fold in the same hospital. By 2009, the maternity hospital witnessed a staggering 48 birth defects per 1,000 live births."
    And in 2010 the number dropped back to 29 birth defects per 1,000 which isn't statistically significant from the 23 in the first year of study when the invasion began. People love stopping at the 2009 number when they quote that study cause it's sexy. Next time read beyond the abstract and dig into the numbers. As a professor that's what I have my MSc. student's do.

    Also...your jump from uranium shells and white phosphorus is nowhere to be found in that study. The author does mention the possibility of lead and mercury contamination but can't make any definitive conclusion as to what caused the increase (if it really is even an increase at all as data is not verifiable/reliable...guess we just have to take their word for it). For all we know the defects could be related to the chemical weapon munitions that were also making American service people sick? Who knows?

    Either way...assuming everything you say is true...a single future atrocity will not be prevented and it will actually get worse. Chemical weapons are being used in Syria, an ISIS/Shia war is about to burn through the region. The real genocide has only begun. This is the foreign policy you all want. You win. Enjoy.

    Edit - to be a professor you need to be 4 days on faculty. With me being only 2 days at my peak my actual title was assistant professor. Now I'm down to guest appearances which makes me an associate professor.

    https://youtu.be/Bq6VT4m9MA4

    14 seconds in obviously
    Post edited by InHiding80 on
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    What a revisionist thing to say.
    You don't consider about a million deaths, untold displacements, and birth defect/cancer rates off the charts to be a "real horror show"?
    Of course not, because we secured our economic interests.
    Birth defect/cancer rates? What the hell are you talking about?
    Talking about the effects of bombing use of depleted Uranium shells and white phosphorus used by the US and "coalition" on the population of Iraq. Here is a tidbit from the Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology that focused on maternity hospitals in the cities of Basra and Fallujah:
    .Between October 1994 and October 1995, the number of birth defects per 1,000 live births in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 1.37. In 2003, the number of birth defects in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 23 per 1,000 livebirths. Within less than a decade, the occurrence of congenital birth defects increased by an astonishing 17-fold in the same hospital. By 2009, the maternity hospital witnessed a staggering 48 birth defects per 1,000 live births."
    And in 2010 the number dropped back to 29 birth defects per 1,000 which isn't statistically significant from the 23 in the first year of study when the invasion began. People love stopping at the 2009 number when they quote that study cause it's sexy. Next time read beyond the abstract and dig into the numbers. As a professor that's what I have my MSc. student's do.

    Also...your jump from uranium shells and white phosphorus is nowhere to be found in that study. The author does mention the possibility of lead and mercury contamination but can't make any definitive conclusion as to what caused the increase (if it really is even an increase at all as data is not verifiable/reliable...guess we just have to take their word for it). For all we know the defects could be related to the chemical weapon munitions that were also making American service people sick? Who knows?

    Either way...assuming everything you say is true...a single future atrocity will not be prevented and it will actually get worse. Chemical weapons are being used in Syria, an ISIS/Shia war is about to burn through the region. The real genocide has only begun. This is the foreign policy you all want. You win. Enjoy.

    Edit - to be a professor you need to be 4 days on faculty. With me being only 2 days at my peak my actual title was assistant professor. Now I'm down to guest appearances which makes me an associate professor.

    I don't know where to start...I won't bother, it's the same as the global warming issue.
    You are a real piece of work, your tactics are refined and dangerous, using distractions and trying to discredit universally credible sources to blur the discussion. You know the principles of reason, logic, and scientific method well enough to subvert them to suit your own obfuscations...such as suggesting that 23 out of 1,000 isn't significant because it is only slightly higher than the initial data. That initial data is post-invasion, and significantly above normative levels, not to mention much higher than a previous data set that is entirely relevant.. you know it, but you try to use a minor technicality to create doubt around an obvious conclusion.
    Levels falling as troops increased actually supports the conclusion that heavy bombing is the cause, as the initial bombing phase subsided with the ground troop increase.
    You don't know where to start because you have not actually read the study or evaluated it from a scientific perspective. If you were in a thesis defense right now the committee would tear your postulations apart. Let's take your very last point for instance: Did you know the number of defects rose again in 2011 to 37? So as you say it was normal for the numbers to fall in 2010 because the US wasn't bombing anymore but then the number climbed again in 2011 at the height of the pacification? How do you explain that climb in defects again? There was very little bombing that year? Hmmm. Your theory is unsupported by the data. Again...do yourself a favour and do not post a scientific study where you have only read the abstract as it just makes you look silly. If you want to make a greater point about how war is evil then just make the damn point...you won't get an argument here.

    Edit - probably good to mention as well that the birth defects they diagnosed were also primarily folate dependent. That means adequate access to folic acid during pregnancy might have prevented some of these defects. Sanctions and war probably reduced access so if not the bombs you still get to blame the US.
    That illustrates the point I was making. This is the strongest burden of proof, and rightfully so, but it seems you only apply that standard to evidence you want to discredit because it is inconvenient to your view... Meanwhile you have no problem making unequivocal statements like "Iran will have the bomb" and "The real genocide has only begun" without any credible evidence, let alone the burden of proof of a thesis defense.

    Anyways, back to the topic, where the real horror show is about to begin, I guess it is going to be pretty bad to top the fake one that we dropped on them for money. At least they are fighting over ideology instead of just money.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    What a revisionist thing to say.
    You don't consider about a million deaths, untold displacements, and birth defect/cancer rates off the charts to be a "real horror show"?
    Of course not, because we secured our economic interests.
    Birth defect/cancer rates? What the hell are you talking about?
    Talking about the effects of bombing use of depleted Uranium shells and white phosphorus used by the US and "coalition" on the population of Iraq. Here is a tidbit from the Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology that focused on maternity hospitals in the cities of Basra and Fallujah:
    .Between October 1994 and October 1995, the number of birth defects per 1,000 live births in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 1.37. In 2003, the number of birth defects in Al Basrah Maternity Hospital was 23 per 1,000 livebirths. Within less than a decade, the occurrence of congenital birth defects increased by an astonishing 17-fold in the same hospital. By 2009, the maternity hospital witnessed a staggering 48 birth defects per 1,000 live births."
    And in 2010 the number dropped back to 29 birth defects per 1,000 which isn't statistically significant from the 23 in the first year of study when the invasion began. People love stopping at the 2009 number when they quote that study cause it's sexy. Next time read beyond the abstract and dig into the numbers. As a professor that's what I have my MSc. student's do.

    Also...your jump from uranium shells and white phosphorus is nowhere to be found in that study. The author does mention the possibility of lead and mercury contamination but can't make any definitive conclusion as to what caused the increase (if it really is even an increase at all as data is not verifiable/reliable...guess we just have to take their word for it). For all we know the defects could be related to the chemical weapon munitions that were also making American service people sick? Who knows?

    Either way...assuming everything you say is true...a single future atrocity will not be prevented and it will actually get worse. Chemical weapons are being used in Syria, an ISIS/Shia war is about to burn through the region. The real genocide has only begun. This is the foreign policy you all want. You win. Enjoy.

    Edit - to be a professor you need to be 4 days on faculty. With me being only 2 days at my peak my actual title was assistant professor. Now I'm down to guest appearances which makes me an associate professor.

    I don't know where to start...I won't bother, it's the same as the global warming issue.
    You are a real piece of work, your tactics are refined and dangerous, using distractions and trying to discredit universally credible sources to blur the discussion. You know the principles of reason, logic, and scientific method well enough to subvert them to suit your own obfuscations...such as suggesting that 23 out of 1,000 isn't significant because it is only slightly higher than the initial data. That initial data is post-invasion, and significantly above normative levels, not to mention much higher than a previous data set that is entirely relevant.. you know it, but you try to use a minor technicality to create doubt around an obvious conclusion.
    Levels falling as troops increased actually supports the conclusion that heavy bombing is the cause, as the initial bombing phase subsided with the ground troop increase.
    You don't know where to start because you have not actually read the study or evaluated it from a scientific perspective. If you were in a thesis defense right now the committee would tear your postulations apart. Let's take your very last point for instance: Did you know the number of defects rose again in 2011 to 37? So as you say it was normal for the numbers to fall in 2010 because the US wasn't bombing anymore but then the number climbed again in 2011 at the height of the pacification? How do you explain that climb in defects again? There was very little bombing that year? Hmmm. Your theory is unsupported by the data. Again...do yourself a favour and do not post a scientific study where you have only read the abstract as it just makes you look silly. If you want to make a greater point about how war is evil then just make the damn point...you won't get an argument here.

    Edit - probably good to mention as well that the birth defects they diagnosed were also primarily folate dependent. That means adequate access to folic acid during pregnancy might have prevented some of these defects. Sanctions and war probably reduced access so if not the bombs you still get to blame the US.
    That illustrates the point I was making. This is the strongest burden of proof, and rightfully so, but it seems you only apply that standard to evidence you want to discredit because it is inconvenient to your view... Meanwhile you have no problem making unequivocal statements like "Iran will have the bomb" and "The real genocide has only begun" without any credible evidence, let alone the burden of proof of a thesis defense.

    Anyways, back to the topic, where the real horror show is about to begin, I guess it is going to be pretty bad to top the fake one that we dropped on them for money. At least they are fighting over ideology instead of just money.
    The point you were trying to make is what right do I have to care about any atrocity that occurs from here on out as the only thing that matters is what happened between 2003 and 2009. That is called living in the past with blatant disregard for the atrocities that are occuring now....genocide in syria, yazidi women being sold into slavery, boat people fleeing libya and drowning in the sea, civil war in Yemen, the complete collapse of Iraq. Your right...who cares? They ain't my people. Let it burn. Like I said...I have conceded defeat. You win. This the world you want. Enjoy.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,979
    Makes you pine for Saddam doesn't it?
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  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    Makes you pine for Saddam doesn't it?

    Totally...halabja, iran-iraq war, kuwait...good times. Seriously...how much better off would we be if we just let Saddam roll over Kuwait?
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited May 2015
    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    We lost? What would victory have looked like? 7000 more US troops dead and another trillion dollars pissed away and even more Muslims hating the west cause they lost 200000 family members.

    And what your Christian god helping the Muslims that are hell bound?


    Post edited by callen on
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,979
    BS44325 said:

    Makes you pine for Saddam doesn't it?

    Totally...halabja, iran-iraq war, kuwait...good times. Seriously...how much better off would we be if we just let Saddam roll over Kuwait?
    No, we should have kept the two no fly zones and continued UN weapons inspections and monitoring in place. Going all the way back to 1991 now are we? $1 billion a year for an effective strategy is a relative bargain these days. But the neocons wouldn't know that or even realize it in hindsight. Cheney had to get his cut.
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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Fucking Linsey Graham wants to send troops back. Unbelievable.
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  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    callen said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    We lost? What would victory have looked like? 7000 more US troops dead and another trillion dollars pissed away and even more Muslims hating the west cause they lost 200000 family members.

    And what your Christian god helping the Muslims that are hell bound?


    Yes you lost. We lost. It was victory. Violence had drastically subsided. Yes money was being spent but troop deaths had significantly decreased. Now it has imploded and the number of dead muslims has skyrocketed. The US turned its back on the local population. Allies sold out for domestic politics. Victory pissed away. Own this defeat America. It's on you.

    Also - Don't have a christian god. It's a figure of speech. Sorry to offend your atheistic sensibilities.
  • InHiding80
    InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623

    Makes you pine for Saddam doesn't it?

    Just resurrect him and have Cartman's filthy mouth and Satan kill him again.
  • InHiding80
    InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    callen said:

    Fucking Linsey Graham wants to send troops back. Unbelievable.

    He's besties with "I never met a war I didn't like" McCain. Are you really surprised?
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,979
    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    We lost? What would victory have looked like? 7000 more US troops dead and another trillion dollars pissed away and even more Muslims hating the west cause they lost 200000 family members.

    And what your Christian god helping the Muslims that are hell bound?


    Yes you lost. We lost. It was victory. Violence had drastically subsided. Yes money was being spent but troop deaths had significantly decreased. Now it has imploded and the number of dead muslims has skyrocketed. The US turned its back on the local population. Allies sold out for domestic politics. Victory pissed away. Own this defeat America. It's on you.

    Also - Don't have a christian god. It's a figure of speech. Sorry to offend your atheistic sensibilities.
    You seem to forget or be in denial that Iraq wanted us to leave. Our president obliged. So much for that breath of freedom your always espousing and national sovereignty, huh?
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  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    edited May 2015
    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    BS44325 said:

    callen said:

    benjs said:

    callen said:

    Ben, come again? I understand your sentences individually but not your point.

    My point is that as a citizen, just as I can criticize a president but not vie for his position, I can criticize a militaristic decision and not join the military. This shouldn't affect the clout of my opinion.
    Disagree, easy to send others kids into battle and spend others money. Sure you can have the opinion but it will be taken for what it's worth and should be challenged.
    I guess people believe in civilian control of the military until they don't. Either way my position has now changed. The war is for the most part over and the US has lost. A great opportunity for victory has been squandered and by the time the next President takes charge it will certainly be too late. God help all those poor souls for the real horror show is about to begin.
    We lost? What would victory have looked like? 7000 more US troops dead and another trillion dollars pissed away and even more Muslims hating the west cause they lost 200000 family members.

    And what your Christian god helping the Muslims that are hell bound?


    Yes you lost. We lost. It was victory. Violence had drastically subsided. Yes money was being spent but troop deaths had significantly decreased. Now it has imploded and the number of dead muslims has skyrocketed. The US turned its back on the local population. Allies sold out for domestic politics. Victory pissed away. Own this defeat America. It's on you.

    Also - Don't have a christian god. It's a figure of speech. Sorry to offend your atheistic sensibilities.
    We lost the minute Dubya authorized action. After that it was a forgone conclusion. The longer we stayed the worse it got. Again you take your ass over there and fight the bad guys. And send me $2000 for taxes that came out of my pocket. And you can't offend me. So you brought up god. Not Christian god? What kind?
    Post edited by callen on
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