Thank you PJ fans for understanding about major depression.

brianlux

During the last day and a half there has been a huge amount of talk about Robin Williams death due to suicide in the press, the social media, and here on this fan site. On a few others site I've noticed a few people state the opinion that suicide is a cowards way out. Up to this point I haven't read anything by anyone here that would suggest that and so I want to say thanks to my fellow PJ fans for seeming to be generally understanding about depression. It's been really encouraging to hear people expressing their thoughts in a gracious manner, having compassion and trying to understand how severe depression can affect people. My experience is that major depression very often leads to a situation where when someone is in that black hole it is not a matter of being cowardly, it is a matter of being horribly overwhelmed. It seems that many of you understand that and if not, are at least are willing to try to learn more about it.

Thanks for being the compassionate and caring group of good folks that you are.

badbrains

Depression is no joke, and effects us ALL. If you havent dealt with depression before, then you're lying to yourself. Can't imagine the depression robin went through, to kill himself means he felt like there was nothing left. And that's the sad part, no one was listening to his cries.

PJ_Soul

It's a mental illness - a medical condition - so anyone who thinks the symptoms of a mental illness (that can be cause or exascerbated by other illnesses too) are cowardly is an idiot.

morello

Good article in the Guardian today:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2014/aug/12/robin-williams-suicide-and-depression-are-not-selfish

hedonist

I can't believe some of the bile that Robin's daughter has had to deal with in the wake of this.

Just so ugly. So unnecessary.

It's also important to note long-term or ongoing depression vs that brought about by circumstance or even medication (ironic how anti-depressants can bring about suicidal thoughts).

I've felt that temporary depression as I imagine many of us have and it seems easier for most to understand and relate to...but to live with it for years? My heart goes out, that somehow peace of mind can be found.

And yes, Brian - some fine, open-minded and open-hearted folks here.

brianlux

morello said:

Good article in the Guardian today:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2014/aug/12/robin-williams-suicide-and-depression-are-not-selfish

Thanks for posting this, morello. I totally agree with what was said here:

" to say taking your own life because of such an illness is a ‘selfish’ act does nothing but insult the deceased, potentially cause more harm and reveal a staggering ignorance of mental health problems".

I hope what many people will learn is the need to both increase awareness and understanding of severe depression and to help remove the stigma of mental illness- something that can happen to anyone- the best of us, the most famous, the least known, the most loved, the average person. If we can become more accepting and understanding then perhaps this will be Robin's final gift to us.

norm

Robin Williams didn’t die from suicide. I only just heard the sad, sad news of Robin Williams’s death. My wife sent me a message to tell me he had died, and, when I asked her what he died from, she told me something that nobody in the news seems to be talking about.

When people die from cancer, their cause of death can be various horrible things – seizure, stroke, pneumonia – and when someone dies after battling cancer, and people ask “How did they die?”, you never hear anyone say “pulmonary embolism”, the answer is always “cancer”. A Pulmonary Embolism can be the final cause of death with some cancers, but when a friend of mine died from cancer, he died from cancer. That was it. And when I asked my wife what Robin Williams died from, she, very wisely, replied “Depression”.

The word “suicide” gives many people the impression that “it was his own decision,” or “he chose to die, whereas most people with cancer fight to live.” And, because Depression is still such a misunderstood condition, you can hardly blame people for not really understanding. Just a quick search on Twitter will show how many people have little sympathy for those who commit suicide…

@TateLovett thank u for being right. I love robin Williams but I think the way he died was his own stupidity. It’s sad but his own fault. — Kara Seymour (@kara_michelle01) August 12, 2014

Idk why everyone is so sympathetic towards Robin Williams. Yea he was a good actor and all but the dude killed himself. His own damn fault — Darnell (@Thathigga) August 12, 2014

Robin Williams dieing is sad but it was his choice What about the 1000′s of children dieing in Palestine that dont want to die thats sad too — TerryCrosbie (@Terry_Crosbie) August 12, 2014

But, just as a Pulmonary Embolism is a fatal symptom of cancer, suicide is a fatal symptom of Depression. Depression is an illness, not a choice of lifestyle. You can’t just “cheer up” with depression, just as you can’t choose not to have cancer. When someone commits suicide as a result of Depression, they die from Depression – an illness that kills millions each year. It is hard to know exactly how many people actually die from Depression each year because the figures and statistics only seem to show how many people die from “suicide” each year (and you don’t necessarily have to suffer Depression to commit suicide, it’s usually just implied). But considering that one person commits suicide every 14 minutes in the US alone, we clearly need to do more to battle this illness, and the stigmas that continue to surround it. Perhaps Depression might lose some its “it was his own fault” stigma, if we start focussing on the illness, rather than the symptom. Robin Williams didn’t die from suicide. He died from Depression*. It wasn’t his choice to suffer that.
http://www.tomclempson.com/2014/08/robin-williams-did-not-die-from-suicide/

Enkidu

I don't usually put stuff like this on Facebook, but I did yesterday. Getting help, seeing a therapist is about strength. There is no shame about trying to help yourself.

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lukin2006

For me the troubling part of Robin Williams dying from depression is if a man with great resources, good connections and the best available professionals feels so helpless then what about those with far less resources? Think about the countless people that need help. Just very sad ... Hopefully more education and awareness becomes available for everyone.

Rygar

This is a good thread with a lot of good points. It's important to remember that depression (and as Enkidu posted and one I can relate to - anxiety - and panic attacks) aren't just someone having a bad day.
Good point Lukin too. I think sometimes the help someone receives when they seek it out works better for that person - whether it is just the right fit with the therapist/counselor or otherwise.

norm

On Depression & Getting Help
This was originally posted February 26, 2010.

I deal with suicidal, unipolar depression and I take medication daily to treat it. Over the past seven years, I’ve had two episodes that were severe and during which I thought almost exclusively of suicide. I did not eat much and lost weight during these episodes. I couldn’t sleep at all, didn’t even think about sex, and had constant diarrhea. The first thing I did each morning was vomit. My mind played one thought over and over, which was “Kill yourself.” It was also accompanied by a constant, thrumming pain that I felt through my whole body. I describe the physical symptoms because it helps to understand that real depression isn’t just a “mood.” These two episodes were the most difficult experiences of my life, by a wide margin, and I did not know if I would make it through them. To illustrate how horrible it was, being in jail in a wheelchair with four broken limbs after the car accident that prompted me to get sober eight years ago was much, much easier and less painful. That isn’t an exxageration and I hope it helps people understand clinical depression better; I’m saying that I would rather be in jail in a wheelchair with a body that doesn’t work than experience a severe episode of depression.

To clarify the timeline, I got sober eight years ago and my first episode of depression was seven years ago. I had been in talk-therapy with a psychologist for months and was getting used to life without booze. It’s my understanding that it’s not terribly rare for someone in early sobriety to get depressed. I started to exhibit the symptoms I described above and had no idea what was happening. My psychologist urged me to see a psychiatrist, as did my family, among whom alcoholism and depression are old pals, so to speak. Everyone wanted me to go on medication, except me. I felt that it would be “weak” to do so and that I could soldier through and get a handle on it. But everything got worse and it was terrifying. Most of my thoughts were telling me to kill myself and I began fantasizing constantly about suicide. The images of my head being blown apart by a shotgun blast or me swimming out into the ocean until I got tired and drowned played over and over in my head. My whole body hurt, all the time.
Fortunately, a tiny part of me recognized my thought process as “crazy.” I knew that if anyone other than me was describing these symptoms I would lovingly handcuff them and take them to the hospital and help the shit out of them, whether they liked it or not. So I tried very hard to step out of myself and look at the situation with a modicum of objectivity and “imagine” that I was someone who deserved help.
Quite literally I thought, “I don’t think anyone else would shoot me with a shotgun, so maybe, temporarily, I’ll postpone that and try this Lexapro that everyone who knows me is recommending.”
It worked. It wasn’t magical, but it addressed some chemical issues in my brain that allowed me, gradually, to feel better and actually experience my life. I ate again, slept again, got boners when I encountered attractive women, and made normal number twos when I went to the bathroom. I didn’t and don’t feel euphoric all the time or anything. I still get angry, sad, and afraid sometimes. But I also get happy, excited, and horny too. I experience the full range of human emotions, rather than just one horrible one.
Just under eighteen months ago, after a couple of years of both my marriage and my decision to pursue comedy full-time, I experimented with a lower dose of medication and had another episode. It was as bad or worse than the first one, but thankfully I had some idea of how to deal with it. This episode drove home the knowledge that, like alchoholism, depression demands respect and attention. Whether it’s a “good” thing or a “bad” thing, I cannot pretend to know, but it exists and it can kill you dead.
My psychiatrist adjusted my dose and I got feeling better over time. If you know me personally, all this information may surprise you, as I think I generally have a pretty sunny demeanor. For most of my life, I’ve been a happy, optimistic guy. But for whatever reason, I’ve had depression of a serious, life-threatening nature rear its head a couple of times.

The sole reason I’ve written this is so that someone who is depressed or knows someone who is depressed might see it. While great strides have been made in mental health over the years, certain stigmas still exist. I strongly resisted medication at first. But after having been through depression and having had the wonderful good fortune to help a couple of people who’ve been through it, I will say that as hard as it is, IT CAN BE SURVIVED. And after the stabilization process, which can be and often is fucking terrifying, a HAPPY PRODUCTIVE LIFE is possible and statistically likely. Get help. Don’t think. Get help.
http://robdelaney.tumblr.com/post/414007899/on-depression-getting-help

RKCNDY

I've had to 'battle that beast' and it's not easy. When people asked me why I took such a long time off work, part of my therapy was to be open, honest and truthful. Most people were 'offended' per day, and said some very negative things.

I hope that the more people that talk about it, it will help others gain a better understanding about it, to make them really 'think' before they speak, and make it easier for those that are afraid to seek help to go get it.

hedonist

I simply don't get the negative feedback. A young woman I work with did the same as you, RK, and when she told me what was going on, it never occurred to me to react with anything but support and compassion.

RKCNDY

Neither do I... I'm horrified that I just read an article about Zelda Williams (Robin's daughter) that explained why she deactivated her Instagram and Twitter accounts.

I cannot fathom why people felt the need to say such horrible things to someone that just lost their father.

chadwick

Enkidu said:

I don't usually put stuff like this on Facebook, but I did yesterday. Getting help, seeing a therapist is about strength. There is no shame about trying to help yourself.

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i throughly enjoy seeing a shrink or whatever therapist. many ppl are weak in this world; robin was not weak at all, he was one of the strongest human beings around. i think we wanted to have him as a close friend, at least that was one of my first thoughts after reading the terrible news heading... "i just wish he was my close friend, maybe we could have helped one another"

it was around the same time i read sometime badbrains put up about him making others laugh but no one was there for his tears,,, or something like this....

hedonist

I think strength and weakness, from the physical to the psyche, are part of being human - we can learn and grow from both. Your comment about being a close friend (I would've loved it!) makes me feel that much more for those who were, not to mention his family. How they must be hurting, wondering what they could've done differently, second-guessing themselves.

RK, I think I posted about his daughter in the other thread. Just shameful, how some have pounced.

chadwick

im not taking about the standard best pal... the standard best pal is pretty much horse shit in my book & to me is school yard hopscotch

PJ_Soul

Enkidu said:

I don't usually put stuff like this on Facebook, but I did yesterday. Getting help, seeing a therapist is about strength. There is no shame about trying to help yourself.

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I like the message, but I will never repost anything that uses the old "most people won't post this" trick. Why do people stick that stupid little jab in there when they are trying to spread a message? I really hate that. Sorry, off topic, but it's just such a bad little ploy that I've seen again and again in otherwise good messages people are trying to spread.

badbrains

I dnt think anyone should be embarrassed or have to apologize before posting something like that. There's no shame in that message and people need to know they aren't alone NO MATTER how alone they feel. Reach out to ANYBODY, trust me, it helps and fucken works. It isn't easy dealing with this shit and people need to get over the embarrassment of being depressed. Fuck depression, it's an evil killer.

brianlux

badbrains said:

I dnt think anyone should be embarrassed or have to apologize before posting something like that. There's no shame in that message and people need to know they aren't alone NO MATTER how alone they feel. Reach out to ANYBODY, trust me, it helps and fucken works. It isn't easy dealing with this shit and people need to get over the embarrassment of being depressed. Fuck depression, it's an evil killer.

Totally agree, man. No shame in admitting having depression or mental illness. It took me a long time- literally years of shame and hiding and loneliness- to realize that. I went into a counseling training program (for which I later served as program assistant for a few years) and learned a lot that I put into practice. I hope those kinds of tools can become more available now that this issue is being talked about to openly. It really gives a lot of hope to battling that horrid condition.

Yes, reaching out to others in this terrible pain is hugely helpful. Just letting someone know they aren't lost alone in a void is so helpful. I little friendly verbal touch and some empathy can really go a long way.

"Fuck depression, it's an evil killer." Well said!

ldent42

A lot of the stuff I've been seeing online encouraging people to seek help if they're struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts, usually includes a statement along the lines of "no one will judge you"
But meanwhile Zelda Williams had to deactivate her social media accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that depression is a illness, suicide can hardly be called a "choice" under those circumstances & I have nothing but compassion for those suffering. That's why this statement irks me. It's borderline condescending to pretend there are not judgemental asshats out there who won't believe you & who'll tell you to just cheer up or get over yourself.

The stigma associated with mental illness is real, & it ought to be confronted rather than denied & ignored.

I actually know a human being who doesn't believe ptsd is real, claims it's just ppl being "melodramatic". This kind of ignorance is frightening.

2-feign-reluctance

Many people criticize what they don't understand. We don't focus enough as a society on talking about how depression can be treated - and people CAN intervene when someone is feeling suicidal. So many misconceptions out there. But hey, I am a therapist, so I'm pretty fucking biased.

lolobugg

the real cowardly thing is being uneducated on this topic and then flaming someone's twitter account who just lost their father.

I consider PJ fans to be a little more educated than the typical asshole on the street.

It's great to see that validated on these boards.

JOEJOEJOE

I suffer from moderate depression, and unfortunately, it went untreated for the first 37 years of my life. I sometimes wonder how different my life would be today had I taken action at an earlier age.

I was never too motivated as a student, and I have never been too much of a trailblazer when it comes to ascending up the professional totem pole. However, I do consider myself lucky to have attained what I have.

badbrains

JOEJOEJOE said:

I suffer from moderate depression, and unfortunately, it went untreated for the first 37 years of my life. I sometimes wonder how different my life would be today had I taken action at an earlier age.

I was never too motivated as a student, and I have never been too much of a trailblazer when it comes to ascending up the professional totem pole. However, I do consider myself lucky to have attained what I have.

Joe, you're still here and battling so man, you're winning. That's the main thing bro. Don't give up and stay strong.

JOEJOEJOE

badbrains said:

JOEJOEJOE said:

I suffer from moderate depression, and unfortunately, it went untreated for the first 37 years of my life. I sometimes wonder how different my life would be today had I taken action at an earlier age.

I was never too motivated as a student, and I have never been too much of a trailblazer when it comes to ascending up the professional totem pole. However, I do consider myself lucky to have attained what I have.

Joe, you're still here and battling so man, you're winning. That's the main thing bro. Don't give up and stay strong.

Thanks for the kind words........I try not to let it get in the way of anything!

PJ_Soul

ldent42 said:

A lot of the stuff I've been seeing online encouraging people to seek help if they're struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts, usually includes a statement along the lines of "no one will judge you"
But meanwhile Zelda Williams had to deactivate her social media accounts.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that depression is a illness, suicide can hardly be called a "choice" under those circumstances & I have nothing but compassion for those suffering. That's why this statement irks me. It's borderline condescending to pretend there are not judgemental asshats out there who won't believe you & who'll tell you to just cheer up or get over yourself.

The stigma associated with mental illness is real, & it ought to be confronted rather than denied & ignored.

I actually know a human being who doesn't believe ptsd is real, claims it's just ppl being "melodramatic". This kind of ignorance is frightening.

Totally true. People SHOULDN'T be ashamed of depression, but there is a very good reason that they are. Unless someone has dealt with it themselves, they just can't understand it, and since understanding is the key to acceptance, getting rid of the stigma surrounding depression (and mental illness in general) is going to be a long, hard battle that may be impossible to win. The better solution is to find ways to prevent it or cure it.... of course, acceptance leads to research funding.... and around we go.

norm

Robin Williams' death: An opportunity to prevent more suicides

Something positive may come out of the tragedy of Robin Williams' apparent suicide: Suicide prevention hotlines are seeing a spike in calls from people seeking help.

The 160 local hotlines that make up the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline saw their collective call volume more than double in the 24 hours after Williams' death, according to Lifeline officials.

In Los Angeles, the folks manning the phones at the Didi Hirsch Suicide Prevention Center — the nation’s oldest and largest — are reporting a similar phenomenon. There has been a 95 percent spike in calls since Williams' death, from about 160 a day to more than 300 a day, says Center Director Robert Stohr.

The comedians' death seems to have had a particularly strong impact among Latinos experiencing mental health crises, if calls to the Center's Spanish language line are any measure. Before Williams' death, there were a couple of calls a day, and since then there have been more than 50 a day, Stohr says.

Whenever a high profile figure takes his or her own life and there is tremendous media coverage, experts worry about "suicide contagion," particularly among adolescents.

So the services provided by suicide prevention hotlines are even more critical at a time like this.

brianlux

This thread originally focused on Robin Williams and depression but since I couldn't find another "depression" thread figured I'd just post here.

Depression is a sneaky bastard. You think you've got it under control and out of the blue- WHAM- it smacks you up the side of the amygdala. That's what happened to me last night. It didn't help that I watched two depressing movies back-to-back. Didn't think much of it until about an hour later when it was late, dark, hot and stuffy here. Suddenly, down comes that heavy smothering blanket of darkness.

It's something worth being prepared for, I guess. You can't ever get too cocky about conquering it. You have to keep your guard up, learn to be tough, hack or pack. Today I'm hacking.

All good thoughts going out to any of you dealing with this... and so many of us do.

Strength!

jnimhaoileoin

Hope you can push through it and come out the other side stronger....

brianlux

Thank you Jenny. I'm always working toward that goal!