Police abuse

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Comments

  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    edited April 2021
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,401
    static111 said:
    cutz said:






    image

    As some would say around here, stop pigeonholing the argument with your facts
    Yep, I would say it here for sure. Facts? Where are the facts? I thought the left was supposed to be all about data and science and yet you're leaning in hard on some stupid meme with no substance.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    tbergs said:
    static111 said:
    cutz said:






    image

    As some would say around here, stop pigeonholing the argument with your facts
    Yep, I would say it here for sure. Facts? Where are the facts? I thought the left was supposed to be all about data and science and yet you're leaning in hard on some stupid meme with no substance.
    This better?

    https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-different-democracies
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    edited April 2021
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:


    craziest part about this video I just noticed:
    lady filming has a goddamn air freshener hanging from her rvm
    wonder how many times she's been pulled over



    Are you posting this because of Daunte? You have heard that narrative about the air freshener wasn't true, right?
    ..go on...

    Because I'm still under the impression he was pulled over for an air freshener.

    I know he had expired tags, too.  Which likely would've been noticed after having already been pulled over.

    Neither are an excuse for murder by cop.
    Why are you under that impression? The air freshener story was only on Twitter started by friends and family. The police confirmed he had expired tags and that he was pulled over for that. Expired tags seems a lot more likely of a reason and I don’t think it’s that uncommon. So there’s really no reason I see not to believe that.


    Neither are an excuse for murder by cop.
    Absolutely. No one I've seen has disagreed with that. Was just curious why you still believe the stop was for an air freshener and not tags. 
    And I am curious why you care so much between the two. They are interchangeable in the incident. The tags were first. The air freshener was second. The gross misdemeanour was third and then it escalated. Glad we cleared that up since it really does not mean shit either way between the first two. 
    Because someone posted a tweet about the air freshener again and asked why this white man wasnt pulled over for his air freshener, so I asked if they still believed that and why they would not believe what was not only confirmed, but also more believable in my opinion. But you're right, it isn't a big deal and makes almost no difference. I also don't know why people are still spreading the narrative of he was shot or pulled over for an air freshener after we know that not to be true,  
    If you're going to use a false narrative and bring race into it, I think its okay to ask why. Daunte wasn't pulled over for an air freshener, so ask why some old white dude wasnt? 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited April 2021
    mace1229 said:
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:


    craziest part about this video I just noticed:
    lady filming has a goddamn air freshener hanging from her rvm
    wonder how many times she's been pulled over



    Are you posting this because of Daunte? You have heard that narrative about the air freshener wasn't true, right?
    ..go on...

    Because I'm still under the impression he was pulled over for an air freshener.

    I know he had expired tags, too.  Which likely would've been noticed after having already been pulled over.

    Neither are an excuse for murder by cop.
    Why are you under that impression? The air freshener story was only on Twitter started by friends and family. The police confirmed he had expired tags and that he was pulled over for that. Expired tags seems a lot more likely of a reason and I don’t think it’s that uncommon. So there’s really no reason I see not to believe that.


    Neither are an excuse for murder by cop.
    Absolutely. No one I've seen has disagreed with that. Was just curious why you still believe the stop was for an air freshener and not tags. 
    And I am curious why you care so much between the two. They are interchangeable in the incident. The tags were first. The air freshener was second. The gross misdemeanour was third and then it escalated. Glad we cleared that up since it really does not mean shit either way between the first two. 
    Because someone posted a tweet about the air freshener again and asked why this white man wasnt pulled over for his air freshener, so I asked if they still believed that and why they would not believe what was not only confirmed, but also more believable in my opinion. But you're right, it isn't a big deal and makes almost no difference. I also don't know why people are still spreading the narrative of he was shot or pulled over for an air freshener after we know that not to be true,  
    If you're going to use a false narrative and bring race into it, I think its okay to ask why. Daunte wasn't pulled over for an air freshener, so ask why some old white dude wasnt? 
    I get it that narratives matter but the air freshner was an issue in the stop it just was not the first issue. It was noted before they found out about the gross misdemeanour he was wanted for and contributed to the escalation. I want the correct story as much as anyone but once the narrative changes and the focus shifts to something like this it takes away from what we really should be talking about imo. Also I probably should have read the whole thread before replying and did not notice the question about if the person taking the pic has ever been pulled over before for having a freshner. 
    Post edited by PJNB on
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mace1229 said:
    CM189191 said:
    CM189191 said:


    craziest part about this video I just noticed:
    lady filming has a goddamn air freshener hanging from her rvm
    wonder how many times she's been pulled over



    Are you posting this because of Daunte? You have heard that narrative about the air freshener wasn't true, right?
    ..go on...

    Because I'm still under the impression he was pulled over for an air freshener.

    I know he had expired tags, too.  Which likely would've been noticed after having already been pulled over.

    Neither are an excuse for murder by cop.
    Why are you under that impression? The air freshener story was only on Twitter started by friends and family. The police confirmed he had expired tags and that he was pulled over for that. Expired tags seems a lot more likely of a reason and I don’t think it’s that uncommon. So there’s really no reason I see not to believe that.


    Neither are an excuse for murder by cop.
    Absolutely. No one I've seen has disagreed with that. Was just curious why you still believe the stop was for an air freshener and not tags. 
    And I am curious why you care so much between the two. They are interchangeable in the incident. The tags were first. The air freshener was second. The gross misdemeanour was third and then it escalated. Glad we cleared that up since it really does not mean shit either way between the first two. 
    Because someone posted a tweet about the air freshener again and asked why this white man wasnt pulled over for his air freshener, so I asked if they still believed that and why they would not believe what was not only confirmed, but also more believable in my opinion. But you're right, it isn't a big deal and makes almost no difference. I also don't know why people are still spreading the narrative of he was shot or pulled over for an air freshener after we know that not to be true,  
    If you're going to use a false narrative and bring race into it, I think its okay to ask why. Daunte wasn't pulled over for an air freshener, so ask why some old white dude wasnt? 
    I get it that narratives matter but the air freshner was an issue in the stop it just was not the first issue. It was noted before they found out about the gross misdemeanour he was wanted for and contributed to the escalation. I want the correct story as much as anyone but once the narrative changes and the focus shifts to something like this it takes away from what we really should be talking about imo. Also I probably should have read the whole thread before replying and did not notice the question about if the person taking the pic has ever been pulled over before for having a freshner. 
    I agree. And sharing a narrative that cops targeted him because of an air freshener takes away from the story. The tweets the first day were already saying he was shot over an air freshener. A false story or narrative takes away from the real problems. I think its stupid to post a picture of a white dude with an air freshener and ask why he wasn't pulled over too when we know that was not the case. It takes the focus away on the real issues when false narratives and being presented. 
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,220
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,149
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    That's about the only real difference. Or are we going to state that its because the US population is so much larger and diverse? There's got to be at least 10 pages of facts, data and statistics in this thread and some on here are still insistent that there isn't a policing or gun problem. Stoopit memes or not.

    Good lord.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    I was curious about cop deaths in the line of duty compared to other countries as well and found this statistic about cancer related to 9/11 to be shocking to me. 

    The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 149 deaths in the line of duty.[25] The leading cause of death for 2019 is gunfire at 48 deaths followed by 9/11 related cancer at 24 deaths. The state with the highest amount of line of duty deaths is New York with 25 followed by Texas with 18.



  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,401
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Goalposts? The standard was set by a meme which got questioned for it's conveniently misleading info. Better go buck to the locker room and get a new game plan.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,334
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Challenging someone to think more broadly is not moving the goal posts. The funny thing about statistics is they are easy to manipulate, especially when you choose not to factor in all of the comparable data.

  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,401
    PJNB said:
    tbergs said:
    static111 said:
    cutz said:






    image

    As some would say around here, stop pigeonholing the argument with your facts
    Yep, I would say it here for sure. Facts? Where are the facts? I thought the left was supposed to be all about data and science and yet you're leaning in hard on some stupid meme with no substance.
    This better?

    https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-different-democracies
    Of course. I would hope anyone wouldn't fall for that BS meme, but here we are needing to fact check stupid things people may believe.

    All things other countries do requires alot more of an investment from cities, including higher pay. Good luck since the leading argument seems to be scale back and defund.  
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited April 2021
    Every country has its problems. Every country does things in their own unique way. That said look at these numbers. I don't care what the other comparable data is. This shit is not even close and something needs to be done cause this is not working. 


  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,401
    edited April 2021
    PJNB said:
    Every country has its problems. Every country does things in their own unique way. That said look at these numbers. I don't care what the other comparable data is. This shit is not even close and something needs to be done cause this is not working. 


    It goes hand in hand with the gun violence problem in this country. Change the gun culture and police shootings go down as well.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    tbergs said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Goalposts? The standard was set by a meme which got questioned for it's conveniently misleading info. Better go buck to the locker room and get a new game plan.
    Did you read the statistics I posted?

    Turns out the shitty meme wasn't wrong. The stats back it up, then the goalposts moved. So I don't understand what you have a problem with. 
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    FiveBelow said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Challenging someone to think more broadly is not moving the goal posts. The funny thing about statistics is they are easy to manipulate, especially when you choose not to factor in all of the comparable data.

    Are you arguing that the stats I posted are factually incorrect? 
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    it never fails. every time someone posts actual stats with something to do with gun violence in the US, someone always decides it needs "more context", which somehow explains/excuses the disparity between the US and every other nation on the planet. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,401
    dignin said:
    tbergs said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    tbergs said:
    cutz said:






    image

    That USA statistic is misleading. Many states require at least a 2 year degree and several departments even require 4 years. Those states that don't require post secondary education are fucked up. For reference though, MN has some of the highest standards and look what happened here in the last 5 years.
    Statistic mentions nothing about population as well. Another useless Twitter meme  that people will believe automatically because they want to. 
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/

     Rate of police killings per 10 million residents

    United States 33.5
    Canada** 9.8
    Australia*** 8.5
    The Netherlands 2.3
    New Zealand**** 2
    Germany**** 1.3
    England and Wales 0.5
    Japan**** 0.2
    Iceland**** 0
    Norway**** 0
    Cool. Crime statistics? Amount of illegal firearms in the streets? Drugs? Etc... it’s a useless meme 
    And there goes the goalpost again.
    Goalposts? The standard was set by a meme which got questioned for it's conveniently misleading info. Better go buck to the locker room and get a new game plan.
    Did you read the statistics I posted?

    Turns out the shitty meme wasn't wrong. The stats back it up, then the goalposts moved. So I don't understand what you have a problem with. 
    I'm not questioning the number of shootings. Did you read my initial criticism? The statement about qualifications was misleading.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,401
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it never fails. every time someone posts actual stats with something to do with gun violence in the US, someone always decides it needs "more context", which somehow explains/excuses the disparity between the US and every other nation on the planet. 
    Tell me where that happened in the last 10 posts? I said the meme was shit, which it is.
    It's a hopeless situation...
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