Police abuse

Glorified KC

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

tbergs

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

No doubt. I strongly feel that it was murder, but there isn't a law against the type of murder that was committed. It's the loophole in the system that allows cops who negligently perform their duties to avoid criminal charges. Instead they are fired and large civil suits are handed out in place of justice.

Glorified KC

tbergs said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

No doubt. I strongly feel that it was murder, but there isn't a law against the type of murder that was committed. It's the loophole in the system that allows cops who negligently perform their duties to avoid criminal charges. Instead they are fired and large civil suits are handed out in place of justice.

It's the same issue as many, why in the hell did they end up at that apartment in the first place?  Furthermore, who signs a warrant like this?  It's the cause that must be fixed to prevent these effects.  The system is not allowing justice in this situation.

HughFreakingDillon

Glorified KC said:

tbergs said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

No doubt. I strongly feel that it was murder, but there isn't a law against the type of murder that was committed. It's the loophole in the system that allows cops who negligently perform their duties to avoid criminal charges. Instead they are fired and large civil suits are handed out in place of justice.

It's the same issue as many, why in the hell did they end up at that apartment in the first place?  Furthermore, who signs a warrant like this?  It's the cause that must be fixed to prevent these effects.  The system is not allowing justice in this situation.

the judge who signed the warrant said she pored over it for over 30 minutes, and her death will haunt her for the rest of her life. 

HughFreakingDillon

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 

Glorified KC

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 

If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

HughFreakingDillon

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 

If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

Apparently a no knock warrant allows them to not identify themselves, and can literally just break in. the one cop i saw interviewed said "we didn't have to identify ourselves, but we did anyway, several times". 

tbergs

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 

If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. In a no knock situation you are allowed to enter without first knocking, but as you are crossing the threshhold of the door you are announcing "Police, this is a search warrant!" as loud as possible with guns drawn and clearly identifiable apparel. The whole point of a no knock is either to mitigate the destruction of evidence or for officer safety due to intel that weapons are inside and could be used pre-emptively if they announce at the door before entering. You almost always see it in the case of drug warrants because guns and drugs typically co-exist on a criminal level.

In most of these cases, the judge knows the officers/department and is trusting them to have reliable intel about why the no-knock is justified. It takes some pretty intense circumstances for a judge to grant a no-knock after hours search warrant. Typically they want to know why any residence where the offender doesn't live is a place of interest and how recently intel was gathered that evidence or an offender is on site. Not sure of the laws outside MN, but it's usually down to within 24 hours, if not way less depending on the judge, of active criminal activity occurring for them to grant a no-knock late night search warrant. This whole situation just highlights the many issues with the whole process.

HughFreakingDillon

tbergs said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 

If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. In a no knock situation you are allowed to enter without first knocking, but as you are crossing the threshhold of the door you are announcing "Police, this is a search warrant!" as loud as possible with guns drawn and clearly identifiable apparel. The whole point of a no knock is either to mitigate the destruction of evidence or for officer safety due to intel that weapons are inside and could be used pre-emptively if they announce at the door before entering. You almost always see it in the case of drug warrants because guns and drugs typically co-exist on a criminal level.

In most of these cases, the judge knows the officers/department and is trusting them to have reliable intel about why the no-knock is justified. It takes some pretty intense circumstances for a judge to grant a no-knock after hours search warrant. Typically they want to know why any residence where the offender doesn't live is a place of interest and how recently intel was gathered that evidence or an offender is on site. Not sure of the laws outside MN, but it's usually down to within 24 hours, if not way less depending on the judge, of active criminal activity occurring for them to grant a no-knock late night search warrant. This whole situation just highlights the many issues with the whole process.

did they have time to do identify themselves, even if they didn't? sounds like they didn't cross any threshold; they broke down the door and immediately got fired upon. details are a bit sketchy, but that's how i took it. 

mace1229

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 

If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

I don't see how it would if they had a no-knock warrant. Those warrants exist to prevent a violent criminal a chance to prepare. It doesn't sound like this was a case that should have a no-knock warrant, but since there was one, I don't see how you could call it breaking and entering. 
It just looks better for police in this case since the who case is about self defense. The police claim  boyfriend (?) shot at police first because he thought they were people breaking in. Saying they announced it loud enough for several witnesses to testify to that just helps their case a little in that they justly returned fire.

Glorified KC

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Glorified KC said:

Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.

did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?

Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 

If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. In a no knock situation you are allowed to enter without first knocking, but as you are crossing the threshhold of the door you are announcing "Police, this is a search warrant!" as loud as possible with guns drawn and clearly identifiable apparel. The whole point of a no knock is either to mitigate the destruction of evidence or for officer safety due to intel that weapons are inside and could be used pre-emptively if they announce at the door before entering. You almost always see it in the case of drug warrants because guns and drugs typically co-exist on a criminal level.

In most of these cases, the judge knows the officers/department and is trusting them to have reliable intel about why the no-knock is justified. It takes some pretty intense circumstances for a judge to grant a no-knock after hours search warrant. Typically they want to know why any residence where the offender doesn't live is a place of interest and how recently intel was gathered that evidence or an offender is on site. Not sure of the laws outside MN, but it's usually down to within 24 hours, if not way less depending on the judge, of active criminal activity occurring for them to grant a no-knock late night search warrant. This whole situation just highlights the many issues with the whole process.

did they have time to do identify themselves, even if they didn't? sounds like they didn't cross any threshold; they broke down the door and immediately got fired upon. details are a bit sketchy, but that's how i took it. 

Yeah I only ask the question, because I honestly didn't know if that was within the law to execute the warrant without ID'ing yourself.  It seems to be a highly discussed detail within the entire event.

mace1229

I just heard on the news it wasn’t a no-knock warrant. I’ve heard 100 times before that it was. 

I still don’t see how not knocking and announcing yourself would make it breaking and entering, I would assume there’s some other lingo, like unlawful entry of a search warrant or something.

wndowpayne

Entire thing is sketchy..no body cameras...Were they in another room or did the guy fire at them within a second or two of the door being kicked in? Seems if you were sitting right there you must have had the gun in your hand already.

Ledbetterman10

The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 

static111

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 

What witness? I thought most of the neighbors said that the police didn’t announce? So now one single witness is supposed to make it ok that this happened?  And if they did announce why did they drop the case against her boyfriend?

Ledbetterman10

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 

What witness? I thought most of the neighbors said that the police didn’t announce? So now one single witness is supposed to make it ok that this happened?  And if they did announce why did they drop the case against her boyfriend?

I’m just quoting what the DA said today. 

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1308835050021105668?s=21

static111

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 

What witness? I thought most of the neighbors said that the police didn’t announce? So now one single witness is supposed to make it ok that this happened?  And if they did announce why did they drop the case against her boyfriend?

I’m just quoting what the DA said today. 

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1308835050021105668?s=21

A quick google search reveals that the DA was McConnell’s protege and general council for years....not sure I would take his word for anything.

mace1229

Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.

Ledbetterman10

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 

What witness? I thought most of the neighbors said that the police didn’t announce? So now one single witness is supposed to make it ok that this happened?  And if they did announce why did they drop the case against her boyfriend?

I’m just quoting what the DA said today. 

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1308835050021105668?s=21

A quick google search reveals that the DA was McConnell’s protege and general council for years....not sure I would take his word for anything.

Ya don’t have to. 

Ledbetterman10

mace1229 said:

Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.

Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case.