Gaza ***GRAPHIC PICS***

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Comments

  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    PJ_Soul said:

    JC29856 said:

    pjsoul
    what parts make alot of sense? what points are good? i wouldn't mind giving my side...

    The parts that strike me the most and that I believe to be true are (and please try not to read between any lines here - there is nothing there. The article is pretty pro-Israeli, ironically, so many of these points are more about what Hamas is doing. That doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of similarly damning points against Israel, but only that this article doesn't properly address them IMO, which is why they're not listed. I do NOT favour the Israeli government over Hamas or vice-versa. I am not on the fence. I think that both sides are doing absolutely everything wrong):
    1) Hamas's greatest weapon is dead Palestinian children.
    2) Both sides are very much motivated by both racism and religion (tribal conflict).
    3) The focused outrage from the Muslim world is fueled by the fact that the perpetrators (as they see it) are Jews and the focused outrage from Jews is fueled by the fact that the perpetrators (as they see it) are Muslim (this is just more of the race-driven concept).
    4) Children on both sides are being raised to hate one another.
    5) If Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians they would have done it already.
    6) Hamas is doing a piss poor job of even trying to protect Palestinian lives and in fact seems to deliberately put them at risk at times.

    PS - I find the idea the Hamas and others are using photos of dead kids from other conflicts and saying they're from Gaza is absolutely plausible. The propaganda coming from both sides of this conflict is totally outlandish and out of control. I would bet money that Hamas is doing that, and I know that the media from both sides and just civilians are doing the same, because I have personally sought out the truth behind some of this Israeli and Palestinian propaganda and it's pretty easy to prove that a lot of that stuff is bullshit or posted completely out of context. Not sure why you found that idea so ludicrous.
    1) why are you speaking about Hamas as If they are outside of Palestinian society? If we are talking about PR should one say that any movement to liberate Palestine from Israeli occupation's greatest "weapon" is dead Palestinians? What a horrific thing to say. As if the dead bodies are being "used" by Hamas - this PR tactic in and of itself seems to "use" these dead Palestinians in an attempt to delegitimize Hamas - I.e. It is guilty of the same shit it is accusing the other party of.
    2) why not let Hamas speak for themselves? Did you see Khaled Meshaal's interview with Charlie rose? He said we are not against Jews for being Jews, we are opposed to occupation and are simply fighting that. Do you reject it for any particular reason? Please don't try to pull up so,e Hamas charter bullshit talking point - it's an anachronistic document written by ideologues decades ago with no bearing on the actual political actors. And for years people said why doesn't Hamas take that part back?! And when they did they said oh this is just a PR move. Shove it. The only racism is the idea of creating a Jewish state. The overwhelming majority of Palestinians, even Hamas does not call for an Islamic state. Even khaled Meshaal said we just want our rights, after that we can democratically decide how to govern ourselves.

    3) wrong. There's just no evidence of this. In fact there is evidence of quite the opposite, where anti-Semitic rulers such as Anwar Sadat and Hosni Mubarak worked with Israel for geopolitical purposes. This is not a religious issue - any real study of the region and it's history makes that clear.

    5) I am at the airport waiting to board a flight so I will have to respond to this later. Suffice it to say that it's a weak argument.

    6) any evidence to support this? It's funny how you hate Hamas so much that just because you "can see" the, doctoring photos or using fake photos or whatever, it's almost accepted as fact. Where's the evidence? Use some critical thinking skills for Christ's sake.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited August 2014
    PJ_Soul said:

    badbrains said:

    That's great. I said somewhere recently that I can't see how the US could possibly keep this up... with developments like this, I have some small amount of hope for some kind of turnaround for the US.... if not now, at least it might become a major election campaign issue. It's going to get harder and harder for new presidential candidates to run with a pro-Israeli platform at this rate
    At any rate if your a teenager and live a long and prosperous life you will never see a us president without a pro Israel position.
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    PJ_Soul said:

    The parts that strike me the most and that I believe to be true are

    ...Hamas's greatest weapon is dead Palestinian children.

    Seriously?

  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Byrnzie said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    The parts that strike me the most and that I believe to be true are

    ...Hamas's greatest weapon is dead Palestinian children.

    Seriously?

    Yeah dead serious, pardon the pun. The public relations war. It's in there charter. It's all about public relations. PR.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Protecting the edges
    Gaza : 1867 killed, 429 children, 243 are women, 70 elderly and 9567 injured
    10080 buildings destroyed


  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    JC29856 said:

    Protecting the edges
    Gaza : 1867 killed, 429 children, 243 are women, 70 elderly and 9567 injured
    10080 buildings destroyed


    How can anyone see the numbers and apply equal blame?

  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    edited August 2014
    It isn't a question of equal blame. You are right - how can it be when you consider those numbers? However, that is not to say there is not some blame on both sides. Israel's tactics have been disgustingly heavy handed, and they could instantly call this entire offensive off. On the other side, Hamas knows Israel will answer every ineffective rocket attack tenfold, and they still continue to fire rockets that have no impact other than to provide their enemy with political cover to rain fire down upon the populace of Gaza.

    Certainly this is not a new thought at this point but, yes, I do see blame on both sides. We shouldn't let that get lost in an argument over equal blame. Innocent people are dying and both sides should stop.
    Post edited by JimmyV on
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    Stay classy google

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JimmyV said:

    It isn't a question of equal blame. You are right - how can it be when you consider those numbers? However, that is not to say there is not some blame on both sides. Israel's tactics have been disgustingly heavy handed, and they could instantly call this entire offensive off. On the other side, Hamas knows Israel will answer every ineffective rocket attack tenfold, and they still continue to fire rockets that have no impact other than to provide their enemy with political cover to rain fire down upon the populace of Gaza.

    Certainly this is not a new thought at this point but, yes, I do see blame on both sides. We shouldn't let that get lost in an argument over equal blame. Innocent people are dying and both sides should stop.

    You make it sound like this is a random spat that erupted out of a vacuum.
    Have you ever considered what the Palestinians under occupation have to live with every day of their lives? Check-points, curfews, military incursions, missile attacks, shootings by snipers, verbal abuse, beatings, stabbings, the destruction of their homes and their olive groves, attacks by gangs of armed settlers, poverty, restrictions on their water and electricity...

    This shit has been going on for 47 years.

    And in June the Israeli public, whipped up into a frenzy of racial hatred by their government leaders, who lied to them and pretended that Hamas were responsible for the kidnapping and murder of three teens, went on a rampage through the West Bank and East Jerusalem, beating Palestinians on sight and looting their homes and businesses. A 15 year old Palestinian boy was then abducted from the street, had gasoline poured down his throat and was burned alive and his body dumped in the bushes.

    The Israeli army also carried out a series of missile strikes against Gaza, and Hamas retaliated with its rockets.

    Israel then launched a full bombardment of Gaza, and has so far managed to murder over 1,700 of its inhabitants - 90% of those killed being civilians.

    The rocket attacks are largely symbolic. But what do you expect them to do? Just lie down and die?
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    It isn't a question of equal blame. You are right - how can it be when you consider those numbers? However, that is not to say there is not some blame on both sides. Israel's tactics have been disgustingly heavy handed, and they could instantly call this entire offensive off. On the other side, Hamas knows Israel will answer every ineffective rocket attack tenfold, and they still continue to fire rockets that have no impact other than to provide their enemy with political cover to rain fire down upon the populace of Gaza.

    Certainly this is not a new thought at this point but, yes, I do see blame on both sides. We shouldn't let that get lost in an argument over equal blame. Innocent people are dying and both sides should stop.

    You make it sound like this is a random spat that erupted out of a vacuum.
    Have you ever considered what the Palestinians under occupation have to live with every day of their lives? Check-points, curfews, military incursions, missile attacks, shootings by snipers, verbal abuse, beatings, stabbings, the destruction of their homes and their olive groves, attacks by gangs of armed settlers, poverty, restrictions on their water and electricity...

    This shit has been going on for 47 years.

    And in June the Israeli public, whipped up into a frenzy of racial hatred by their government leaders, who lied to them and pretended that Hamas were responsible for the kidnapping and murder of three teens, went on a rampage through the West Bank and East Jerusalem, beating Palestinians on sight and looting their homes and businesses. A 15 year old Palestinian boy was then abducted from the street, had gasoline poured down his throat and was burned alive and his body dumped in the bushes.

    The Israeli army also carried out a series of missile strikes against Gaza, and Hamas retaliated with its rockets.

    Israel then launched a full bombardment of Gaza, and has so far managed to murder over 1,700 of its inhabitants - 90% of those killed being civilians.

    The rocket attacks are largely symbolic. But what do you expect them to do? Just lie down and die?
    Are "symbolic" rocket attacks helping to prevent anything you just described? Are they changing the status quo in any way? Have they saved a single Palestinian life? I don't see that they have. Meanwhile, they give the Israelis cover to continue their onslaught and provide "news" outlets with fodder to paint the Palestinians as the aggressors. I remain unconvinced that these rockets are helping the Palestinian cause in Gaza in any way.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited August 2014
    Are "symbolic" rocket attacks helping to prevent anything you just described? Are they changing the status quo in any way? Have they saved a single Palestinian life? I don't see that they have. Meanwhile, they give the Israelis cover to continue their onslaught and provide "news" outlets with fodder to paint the Palestinians as the aggressors. I remain unconvinced that these rockets are helping the Palestinian cause in Gaza in any way.



    it almost sounds like your saying Israel can protect itself but Palestinians cant because they dont have the means to stand up to israel, so they must take it and not make it worse.
    the 8th grader picks on, bullies and beats up the 4th grader, its the 4th graders fault that he got nearly pummeled to death because he tried to fight back, he should have just played dead, knowing he is scrawny, a foot smaller and 100lbs lighter and doesnt have a big brother. the beating wouldnt have been so bad, he prob wouldnt have ended up in a coma with broken cheekbones and fractured ribs if he just took it.

    what do you suggest they do to stop the oppression?
    what would you do say if you were thrown out of your house and your town was bulldozed? the place you grew up and then raised kids of your own?
    remember now from example above you have no big brothers, parents or neighbors that care, no principal, no guns or knives, no system of justice, only yourself and a twig on the ground?
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    edited August 2014
    JC29856 said:


    Are "symbolic" rocket attacks helping to prevent anything you just described? Are they changing the status quo in any way? Have they saved a single Palestinian life? I don't see that they have. Meanwhile, they give the Israelis cover to continue their onslaught and provide "news" outlets with fodder to paint the Palestinians as the aggressors. I remain unconvinced that these rockets are helping the Palestinian cause in Gaza in any way.



    what do you suggest they do that they havent already tried to do to stop the oppression?
    Stopping the oppression is a secondary goal right now. Stopping the slaughter of innocent Palestinians should be the primary goal. The rocket fire is contributing to the continued assault. This is where Hamas is not helping the people of Gaza.

    And before anyone jumps on me and pretends I said ending the occupation isn't important or otherwise tries to twist my words, know that I neither said nor implied anything of the sort.

    Post edited by JimmyV on
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,381
    JimmyV said:

    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    It isn't a question of equal blame. You are right - how can it be when you consider those numbers? However, that is not to say there is not some blame on both sides. Israel's tactics have been disgustingly heavy handed, and they could instantly call this entire offensive off. On the other side, Hamas knows Israel will answer every ineffective rocket attack tenfold, and they still continue to fire rockets that have no impact other than to provide their enemy with political cover to rain fire down upon the populace of Gaza.

    Certainly this is not a new thought at this point but, yes, I do see blame on both sides. We shouldn't let that get lost in an argument over equal blame. Innocent people are dying and both sides should stop.

    You make it sound like this is a random spat that erupted out of a vacuum.
    Have you ever considered what the Palestinians under occupation have to live with every day of their lives? Check-points, curfews, military incursions, missile attacks, shootings by snipers, verbal abuse, beatings, stabbings, the destruction of their homes and their olive groves, attacks by gangs of armed settlers, poverty, restrictions on their water and electricity...

    This shit has been going on for 47 years.

    And in June the Israeli public, whipped up into a frenzy of racial hatred by their government leaders, who lied to them and pretended that Hamas were responsible for the kidnapping and murder of three teens, went on a rampage through the West Bank and East Jerusalem, beating Palestinians on sight and looting their homes and businesses. A 15 year old Palestinian boy was then abducted from the street, had gasoline poured down his throat and was burned alive and his body dumped in the bushes.

    The Israeli army also carried out a series of missile strikes against Gaza, and Hamas retaliated with its rockets.

    Israel then launched a full bombardment of Gaza, and has so far managed to murder over 1,700 of its inhabitants - 90% of those killed being civilians.

    The rocket attacks are largely symbolic. But what do you expect them to do? Just lie down and die?
    Are "symbolic" rocket attacks helping to prevent anything you just described? Are they changing the status quo in any way? Have they saved a single Palestinian life? I don't see that they have. Meanwhile, they give the Israelis cover to continue their onslaught and provide "news" outlets with fodder to paint the Palestinians as the aggressors. I remain unconvinced that these rockets are helping the Palestinian cause in Gaza in any way.

    Symbolic rocket attacks certainly have helped: all of the sudden, people on the sidelines of this conflict are paying attention. Allegiances for allegiance's sake are being questioned.

    That being said, as I've said before, a government's primary objective is to protect its citizens. Now that the world is paying attention, this would be the best time for Hamas to do a radical shift in tactics and lay down its arms. Israel will be 100% out of justifiable cause for the inhibitions they place on Palestinian life at that point.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited August 2014
    so basically every time israel needs an excuse to bomb they provoke hamas to do nothing.
    so israel pushes and pushes and pushes harder and harder, still no response....push more even harder, push further and further until what....hamas still no response so its not escalated to 2000 civilian deaths.... until what?
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    benjs said:

    JimmyV said:

    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    It isn't a question of equal blame. You are right - how can it be when you consider those numbers? However, that is not to say there is not some blame on both sides. Israel's tactics have been disgustingly heavy handed, and they could instantly call this entire offensive off. On the other side, Hamas knows Israel will answer every ineffective rocket attack tenfold, and they still continue to fire rockets that have no impact other than to provide their enemy with political cover to rain fire down upon the populace of Gaza.

    Certainly this is not a new thought at this point but, yes, I do see blame on both sides. We shouldn't let that get lost in an argument over equal blame. Innocent people are dying and both sides should stop.

    You make it sound like this is a random spat that erupted out of a vacuum.
    Have you ever considered what the Palestinians under occupation have to live with every day of their lives? Check-points, curfews, military incursions, missile attacks, shootings by snipers, verbal abuse, beatings, stabbings, the destruction of their homes and their olive groves, attacks by gangs of armed settlers, poverty, restrictions on their water and electricity...

    This shit has been going on for 47 years.

    And in June the Israeli public, whipped up into a frenzy of racial hatred by their government leaders, who lied to them and pretended that Hamas were responsible for the kidnapping and murder of three teens, went on a rampage through the West Bank and East Jerusalem, beating Palestinians on sight and looting their homes and businesses. A 15 year old Palestinian boy was then abducted from the street, had gasoline poured down his throat and was burned alive and his body dumped in the bushes.

    The Israeli army also carried out a series of missile strikes against Gaza, and Hamas retaliated with its rockets.

    Israel then launched a full bombardment of Gaza, and has so far managed to murder over 1,700 of its inhabitants - 90% of those killed being civilians.

    The rocket attacks are largely symbolic. But what do you expect them to do? Just lie down and die?
    Are "symbolic" rocket attacks helping to prevent anything you just described? Are they changing the status quo in any way? Have they saved a single Palestinian life? I don't see that they have. Meanwhile, they give the Israelis cover to continue their onslaught and provide "news" outlets with fodder to paint the Palestinians as the aggressors. I remain unconvinced that these rockets are helping the Palestinian cause in Gaza in any way.

    Symbolic rocket attacks certainly have helped: all of the sudden, people on the sidelines of this conflict are paying attention. Allegiances for allegiance's sake are being questioned.

    That being said, as I've said before, a government's primary objective is to protect its citizens. Now that the world is paying attention, this would be the best time for Hamas to do a radical shift in tactics and lay down its arms. Israel will be 100% out of justifiable cause for the inhibitions they place on Palestinian life at that point.
    I don't agree that rocket attacks are the reason people are paying attention or why allegiances are being questioned. Israel's continued targeting of civilians is responsible for that. I guess we could say that the rocket attacks are directly causing the Israeli reaction but I don't think many of us (myself included) believes that.

    I am in total agreement with your second paragraph.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,381
    edited August 2014
    JimmyV said:

    benjs said:

    JimmyV said:

    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    It isn't a question of equal blame. You are right - how can it be when you consider those numbers? However, that is not to say there is not some blame on both sides. Israel's tactics have been disgustingly heavy handed, and they could instantly call this entire offensive off. On the other side, Hamas knows Israel will answer every ineffective rocket attack tenfold, and they still continue to fire rockets that have no impact other than to provide their enemy with political cover to rain fire down upon the populace of Gaza.

    Certainly this is not a new thought at this point but, yes, I do see blame on both sides. We shouldn't let that get lost in an argument over equal blame. Innocent people are dying and both sides should stop.

    You make it sound like this is a random spat that erupted out of a vacuum.
    Have you ever considered what the Palestinians under occupation have to live with every day of their lives? Check-points, curfews, military incursions, missile attacks, shootings by snipers, verbal abuse, beatings, stabbings, the destruction of their homes and their olive groves, attacks by gangs of armed settlers, poverty, restrictions on their water and electricity...

    This shit has been going on for 47 years.

    And in June the Israeli public, whipped up into a frenzy of racial hatred by their government leaders, who lied to them and pretended that Hamas were responsible for the kidnapping and murder of three teens, went on a rampage through the West Bank and East Jerusalem, beating Palestinians on sight and looting their homes and businesses. A 15 year old Palestinian boy was then abducted from the street, had gasoline poured down his throat and was burned alive and his body dumped in the bushes.

    The Israeli army also carried out a series of missile strikes against Gaza, and Hamas retaliated with its rockets.

    Israel then launched a full bombardment of Gaza, and has so far managed to murder over 1,700 of its inhabitants - 90% of those killed being civilians.

    The rocket attacks are largely symbolic. But what do you expect them to do? Just lie down and die?
    Are "symbolic" rocket attacks helping to prevent anything you just described? Are they changing the status quo in any way? Have they saved a single Palestinian life? I don't see that they have. Meanwhile, they give the Israelis cover to continue their onslaught and provide "news" outlets with fodder to paint the Palestinians as the aggressors. I remain unconvinced that these rockets are helping the Palestinian cause in Gaza in any way.

    Symbolic rocket attacks certainly have helped: all of the sudden, people on the sidelines of this conflict are paying attention. Allegiances for allegiance's sake are being questioned.

    That being said, as I've said before, a government's primary objective is to protect its citizens. Now that the world is paying attention, this would be the best time for Hamas to do a radical shift in tactics and lay down its arms. Israel will be 100% out of justifiable cause for the inhibitions they place on Palestinian life at that point.
    I don't agree that rocket attacks are the reason people are paying attention or why allegiances are being questioned. Israel's continued targeting of civilians is responsible for that. I guess we could say that the rocket attacks are directly causing the Israeli reaction but I don't think many of us (myself included) believes that.

    I am in total agreement with your second paragraph.

    Rocket attacks aren't the reason, but if you look at the causality of all of this: rocket attacks from Gaza are used as justification for rocket attacks from Israel. Rocket attacks from Israel, unlike most rocket attacks from Gaza, lead to civilian casualties. Civilian casualties lead to global outcry.

    Unlike the causality of the absence of rocket attacks: no rocket attacks from Gaza mean no justification for Israeli retaliation. No justification means no Israeli retaliation. No Israeli retaliation means the world continues to ignore the existence of a people with inherently less rights and lesser quality of life as those within the same political boundaries, and the injustices live on, and no change is brought upon.

    So, you're Hamas: do you lob rockets which produce single-digit casualties, or do you not?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    JC29856 said:

    so basically every time israel needs an excuse to bomb they provoke hamas to do nothing.
    so israel pushes and pushes and pushes harder and harder, still no response....push more even harder, push further and further until what....hamas still no response so its not escalated to 2000 civilian deaths.... until what?

    Again, my point is that these rocket attacks have not saved a single Palestinian life. Not one. Meanwhile, the death toll creeps towards 2000 and Israel continues to be provided with fire to return. I've said this throughout: they need a new tactic.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    benjs said:

    JimmyV said:

    benjs said:

    JimmyV said:

    Byrnzie said:

    JimmyV said:

    It isn't a question of equal blame. You are right - how can it be when you consider those numbers? However, that is not to say there is not some blame on both sides. Israel's tactics have been disgustingly heavy handed, and they could instantly call this entire offensive off. On the other side, Hamas knows Israel will answer every ineffective rocket attack tenfold, and they still continue to fire rockets that have no impact other than to provide their enemy with political cover to rain fire down upon the populace of Gaza.

    Certainly this is not a new thought at this point but, yes, I do see blame on both sides. We shouldn't let that get lost in an argument over equal blame. Innocent people are dying and both sides should stop.

    You make it sound like this is a random spat that erupted out of a vacuum.
    Have you ever considered what the Palestinians under occupation have to live with every day of their lives? Check-points, curfews, military incursions, missile attacks, shootings by snipers, verbal abuse, beatings, stabbings, the destruction of their homes and their olive groves, attacks by gangs of armed settlers, poverty, restrictions on their water and electricity...

    This shit has been going on for 47 years.

    And in June the Israeli public, whipped up into a frenzy of racial hatred by their government leaders, who lied to them and pretended that Hamas were responsible for the kidnapping and murder of three teens, went on a rampage through the West Bank and East Jerusalem, beating Palestinians on sight and looting their homes and businesses. A 15 year old Palestinian boy was then abducted from the street, had gasoline poured down his throat and was burned alive and his body dumped in the bushes.

    The Israeli army also carried out a series of missile strikes against Gaza, and Hamas retaliated with its rockets.

    Israel then launched a full bombardment of Gaza, and has so far managed to murder over 1,700 of its inhabitants - 90% of those killed being civilians.

    The rocket attacks are largely symbolic. But what do you expect them to do? Just lie down and die?
    Are "symbolic" rocket attacks helping to prevent anything you just described? Are they changing the status quo in any way? Have they saved a single Palestinian life? I don't see that they have. Meanwhile, they give the Israelis cover to continue their onslaught and provide "news" outlets with fodder to paint the Palestinians as the aggressors. I remain unconvinced that these rockets are helping the Palestinian cause in Gaza in any way.

    Symbolic rocket attacks certainly have helped: all of the sudden, people on the sidelines of this conflict are paying attention. Allegiances for allegiance's sake are being questioned.

    That being said, as I've said before, a government's primary objective is to protect its citizens. Now that the world is paying attention, this would be the best time for Hamas to do a radical shift in tactics and lay down its arms. Israel will be 100% out of justifiable cause for the inhibitions they place on Palestinian life at that point.
    I don't agree that rocket attacks are the reason people are paying attention or why allegiances are being questioned. Israel's continued targeting of civilians is responsible for that. I guess we could say that the rocket attacks are directly causing the Israeli reaction but I don't think many of us (myself included) believes that.

    I am in total agreement with your second paragraph.

    Rocket attacks aren't the reason, but if you look at the causality of all of this: rocket attacks from Gaza are used as justification for rocket attacks from Israel. Rocket attacks from Israel, unlike most rocket attacks from Gaza, lead to civilian casualties. Civilian casualties lead to global outcry.

    Unlike the causality of the absence of rocket attacks: no rocket attacks from Gaza mean no justification for Israeli retaliation. No justification means no Israeli retaliation. No Israeli retaliation means the world continues to ignore the existence of a people with inherently less rights and lesser quality of life as those within the same political boundaries, and the injustices live on, and no change is brought upon.

    So, you're Hamas: do you lob rockets which produce single-digit casualties, or do you not?
    I'm not sure how many more civilians have to die in the quest for global outcry. I understand your point, but I don't see what the endgame here is for Hamas.

    Thankfully, I am not Hamas, but to answer your question, I do think the time to stop lobbing rockets has come.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,600
    edited August 2014
    badbrains said:

    Heartbreaking and infuriating.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
This discussion has been closed.

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