Imagine That -- I’m Still Anti-War

Byrnzie

dancinacrossthewater said:

guys, this is a sarcastic anti-israel twitter account.

Did you think that I wasn't aware of that already? If you follow his account you'll notice that he actually makes some very sharp, accurate observations.

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul said:

dancinacrossthewater said:

So if Israel relinquished air, sea, and land crossing control over Gaza, it'd be a start. I agree.

Lol. So you'd like to see a 180 degree flip of the situation.

Lol. Yeah, Israel has no legal right to continue occupying Gaza in this way. Lol. The Palestinians have the right to self-determination under international law. Lol.

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul said:

Agreed. Posting spoof twitter accounts is definitely not congruent with how Byrnzie tell us how he makes only good points.

Are the points that Twitter account makes not good points? I think they're very good points. Sometimes satire is the only way to deal with a campaign of cynical lying and shameless propaganda.

Byrnzie

PJ_Soul said:

I hardly think that the exclusion of all of North America still constitutes the "whole world".

It does when my original comment was that the whole World is on one side and the U.S and Israel are on the other.

Byrnzie

rr165892 said:

dancinacrossthewater said:

Many who have watched the conflict over the past few weeks have made the fundamental error of viewing it as a national struggle between Israelis versus Palestinians. In reality, an extremist segment of the Palestinian leadership – Hamas along with other terror groups – has effectively hijacked the Palestinian national movement in the name of Islamism.

The agenda isn’t about securing Palestinian rights or opposing Israeli policies; it’s about securing an Islamic state and opposing Israel’s existence. The vision offered by Hamas, and paid for by Iran, cannot be detached from what has happened in Iraq and Syria, and the ongoing battle between Sunni jihadis and Shia jihadis across the region.

Having lived under the sort of regime Hamas intends to create in Gaza, I know firsthand that Hamas is foremost a threat to the Palestinians themselves. And I know that, while Israelis may be Tehran’s sworn enemy, the Palestinian people are nothing more than pawns in the radical scheme of Iran’s ayatollahs.

I agree with your thinking here.Ive said the same thing.

You may agree with it, but it has no relation to reality.

dankind

Byrnzie said:

PJ_Soul said:

I hardly think that the exclusion of all of North America still constitutes the "whole world".

It does when my original comment was that the whole World is on one side and the U.S and Israel are on the other.

Also, because I'm nitpicky, the U.S. and Canada do not comprise "all of North America." There are 21 more countries in the continent, eight of which have UN Associations.

T&T, represent.

The Juggler

Byrnzie said:

rr165892 said:

dancinacrossthewater said:

Many who have watched the conflict over the past few weeks have made the fundamental error of viewing it as a national struggle between Israelis versus Palestinians. In reality, an extremist segment of the Palestinian leadership – Hamas along with other terror groups – has effectively hijacked the Palestinian national movement in the name of Islamism.

The agenda isn’t about securing Palestinian rights or opposing Israeli policies; it’s about securing an Islamic state and opposing Israel’s existence. The vision offered by Hamas, and paid for by Iran, cannot be detached from what has happened in Iraq and Syria, and the ongoing battle between Sunni jihadis and Shia jihadis across the region.

Having lived under the sort of regime Hamas intends to create in Gaza, I know firsthand that Hamas is foremost a threat to the Palestinians themselves. And I know that, while Israelis may be Tehran’s sworn enemy, the Palestinian people are nothing more than pawns in the radical scheme of Iran’s ayatollahs.

I agree with your thinking here.Ive said the same thing.

You may agree with it, but it has no relation to reality.

...

rr165892

Byrnzie said:

rr165892 said:

dancinacrossthewater said:

Many who have watched the conflict over the past few weeks have made the fundamental error of viewing it as a national struggle between Israelis versus Palestinians. In reality, an extremist segment of the Palestinian leadership – Hamas along with other terror groups – has effectively hijacked the Palestinian national movement in the name of Islamism.

The agenda isn’t about securing Palestinian rights or opposing Israeli policies; it’s about securing an Islamic state and opposing Israel’s existence. The vision offered by Hamas, and paid for by Iran, cannot be detached from what has happened in Iraq and Syria, and the ongoing battle between Sunni jihadis and Shia jihadis across the region.

Having lived under the sort of regime Hamas intends to create in Gaza, I know firsthand that Hamas is foremost a threat to the Palestinians themselves. And I know that, while Israelis may be Tehran’s sworn enemy, the Palestinian people are nothing more than pawns in the radical scheme of Iran’s ayatollahs.

I agree with your thinking here.Ive said the same thing.

You may agree with it, but it has no relation to reality.

</blockquote
I guess we perceive reality thru different lenses.I can assure you,it won't end well for Hamas,when all is said and done.Another will take its place but they will be exposed.

my2hands

Meanwhile bombs with "Made in the USA" ate being dropped in a little place called Iraq...

This is exciting stuff

Byrnzie

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/video-palestinian-resistance-gaza-fighting-all-us-says-dr-mads-gilbert

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOk_KaaXc9E

Palestinian resistance in Gaza is “fighting for all of us,” says Dr. Mads Gilbert
08/08/2014

“The heart of the Earth beats in Gaza now. It bleeds, but it beats,” says Dr. Mads Gilbert.

The Norwegian emergency surgeon returned to his home city of Tromsø on 31 July, after spending several weeks treating the wounded from Israel’s assault at Gaza City’s al-Shifa Hospital.

He went straight from the airport to give a spontaneous speech at a large solidarity demonstration for Gaza held at the same time.

Tromsø is twinned with Gaza City.

The newspaper Nordlys made this video, above, of his speech. It is subtitled in English.

“The Palestinian people’s resistance in Gaza today is admirable, it is fair and it is a struggle for all of us. We do not want a world where raw power can be abused, to kill those who struggle for justice.”

Gilbert asks why after all the massacres, all of Israel’s violations of the laws protecting civilians, there are no sanctions on Israel.

He demands to know why the government of Norway is so “quiet” as Palestinians face “one of the most brutal occupation forces of modern history.”

“Solidarity is a powerful weapon,” Gilbert says, ending his address with a call for everyone to get involved in the movement for Palestinian rights.

“Israel is more isolated than ever and they deserve to be,” Gilbert says, endorsing the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement.

It is a powerful 25-minute speech.

We have transcribed the first few minutes, in which Gilbert asks his fellow Norwegians to imagine what their country would be like today if they had not struggled for its liberation from German occupation:

I know you applaud for Gaza. I know you applaud for those who are there, the heroes of Gaza.

This will be no easy appeal to make, because I am now overcome by the mildness, the warmth, the safety, the absence of bombs, jets, blood and death. And then all that we’ve had to keep inside comes to the surface – so forgive me if sometimes I break.

I thought when I got home and met my daughters Siri and Torbjørn, my son-in-law and my grandkids Jenny and Torje, that it is such a mild country we live in.

It so good, with a kind of humanity in all relationships, because we actually built this country on respect for diversity, respect for the individual, respect for human dignity.

And imagine being back in 1945. And I beg to be understood when I say that I am not comparing the German Nazi regime with Israel. I do not.

But I compare occupation with occupation. Imagine that we in 1945 did not win the liberation struggle, did not throw out the occupier, could not see a bright future or believe our kids had a future. Imagine the occupier remaining in our country, taking it piece by piece, for decades upon decades. And banished us to the leanest areas. Took the fish in the sea, took the land, took the water, and we became more and more confined.

And here in Tromsø we were actually imprisoned, because here there was so much resistance to the occupation. So we are imprisoned for seven years, because in an election we had chosen the most resilient, those who would not accept the occupation.

Then after seven years of confinement in our city, Tromsø, the occupier began to bomb us. And they began to bomb us the day we made a political alliance with those in the other confined parts of occupied Norway, to say that we Norwegians would stand together against the occupier. Then they began to bomb us.

They bombed our university hospital, then the medical center, then killed our ambulance workers, they bombed schools where those who had lost their homes were trying to seek shelter. Then they cut the power and bombed our power plant. Then they shut off the water supply. What would we have done?

Would we have given up, waved the white flag? No. No, we would not. And this is the situation in Gaza.

This is not a battle between terrorism and democracy. Hamas is not the enemy Israel is fighting. Israel is waging a war against the Palestinian people’s will to resist. The unbending determination not to submit to the occupation!

It is the Palestinian people’s dignity and humanity that will not accept that they are treated as third, fourth, fifth-ranking people.

In 1938, the Nazis called the Jews “Untermenschen,” subhuman. Today, Palestinians in the West Bank, in Gaza, in the Diaspora are treated as Untermensch, as subhumans who can be bombed, killed, slaughtered by their thousands, without any of those in power reacting.

So I returned home to my free country – and this country is free because we had a resistance movement, because we said that occupied nations have the right to resist, even with weapons. It’s stated in international law.

You are permitted to fight the occupier even with weapons. One should of course respect international law …

Nobody wants to be occupied!

my2hands

Russia is amassing troops on the Ukraine border

Yippee!

JimmyV

Iraq, Ukraine, Syria, Gaza...the insistence that Eddie was only referring to a single conflict continues to miss his point.

Too much war, too many warlords, too many conflicts. Worldwide.

my2hands

Cease fire expires with exchange of rockets

SWEET!

my2hands

I love the smell of napalm in the morning

my2hands

Byrnzie said:

backseatLover12 said:

Keep fighting. It just keeps you spinning your wheels, going absolutely nowhere. No one is really interested in peace for the people when they insist on choosing sides. People would rather spin their wheels than to work for actual progress, solutions and ultimately peace. Because that means actually working together and eating our stupid pride.

You're just making excuses for doing nothing. And all that your lazy apathetic selfishness achieves is that it benefits the aggressor in this conflict, and allows a prolongation of the suffering of those under occupation.

But what's actually incredibly offensive and disrespectful is that not only do you profess to not give a fuck about the people being occupied, and oppressed, but that you feel you should try to convince others to adopt that same attitude.

Please do not take any offense my friend, I really do not mean to offend and do not want it to come across that way, but I am actually curious...

Are you doing anything to help in regards to this conflict? And do you have any advice to people that may want to help, in anyway?

backseatLover12

JimmyV said:

Iraq, Ukraine, Syria, Gaza...the insistence that Eddie was only referring to a single conflict continues to miss his point.

Too much war, too many warlords, too many conflicts. Worldwide.

EdsonNascimento

Does anyone find it the least bit interesting that we've spent the last 6 years removing ourselves from world affairs and now the world is on fire? I know we can't and shouldn't be involved in everything. But, perhaps SOME vigilance might be in order to "maintain the peace." (And no I'm not so stupid I think that nothing goes on when we are more involved. I am talking about degrees).

A little preventive measure goes a long way. - Speak softly and carry a big stick. (which does not mean you have to use the stick. Just that folks know you're willing to use it instead of jibber jabbing).

EdsonNascimento

my2hands said:

Cease fire expires with exchange of rockets

SWEET!

Started by Hamas because they want an open border (which Egypt won't provide either), but won't disarm. Why don't they attack Egypt for keeping a closed border?

They have no hope of defeating Israel militarily, yet they choose a militaristic solution that puts their citizens at peril while only addressing a single border. How does that make any sense?

JimmyV

EdsonNascimento said:

Does anyone find it the least bit interesting that we've spent the last 6 years removing ourselves from world affairs and now the world is on fire? I know we can't and shouldn't be involved in everything. But, perhaps SOME vigilance might be in order to "maintain the peace." (And no I'm not so stupid I think that nothing goes on when we are more involved. I am talking about degrees).

A little preventive measure goes a long way. - Speak softly and carry a big stick. (which does not mean you have to use the stick. Just that folks know you're willing to use it instead of jibber jabbing).

I think it is a good point, but I disagree that the world was not also on fire six years ago.

rr165892

my2hands said:

I love the smell of napalm in the morning

Charlie Dosent surf !