America's Gun Violence

Merkin Baller

Bentleyspop said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

123 people shot. Not all fatal but that’s not the point. Just below average in ‘Murica. So much “responsibility.” Clearly, more guns are the answer. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/us/two-weeks-20-mass-shootings-trnd/index.html


https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Stop blaming the innocent guns

Guns don't kill people 





People in possession of guns kill people

Exactly. People in possession of guns is the problem. 

static111

Merkin Baller said:

Bentleyspop said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

123 people shot. Not all fatal but that’s not the point. Just below average in ‘Murica. So much “responsibility.” Clearly, more guns are the answer. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/us/two-weeks-20-mass-shootings-trnd/index.html


https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Stop blaming the innocent guns

Guns don't kill people 





People in possession of guns kill people

Exactly. People in possession of guns is the problem. 

If only there was a way to keep guns out of people’s possession...

mickeyrat

buckle up.......

Ohio's 'stand your ground' law takes effect Tuesday. Here's what you need to know

Anna Staver

The Columbus Dispatch

Ohio's rules for using deadly force change on Tuesday.

That's when a new law, passed by Republicans in December, takes away the legal requirement that people try to retreat from a situation before using deadly force. 

Supporters say Ohio's "stand your ground" law will give much needed protections to people caught in life-threatening situations. But opponents argue that "make my day" laws actually make people of color less safe and increase the number of gun deaths in America.

What is the law in Ohio?

Ohio gave people expansive self-defense rights while inside their homes and cars back in 2008, but the rules were different for city streets, county fairs and the grocery store parking lots. They required a person to attempt to retreat in public before firing a weapon. That requirement goes away Tuesday. 

What doesn't change though is someone has to meet the standard for using lethal force.

"It doesn’t give you a right to shoot and ask questions later," said Eric Delbert, a police officer and co-owner of L.E.P.D. Firearms and Range in Columbus.

Here's what that standard means: A person must have the legal right to be wherever they are. They can't be the one who started the altercation. They have to fear for their life or serious bodily injury, and they had to be able to articulate why. 

"If someone comes up and hits you, it may or may not be a justification...," Delbert said. "That’s for a jury to decide. It doesn’t change the standard for utilizing lethal force."

Stand your ground or license to kill?

Opponents like Rep. Adam Miller, D-Columbus, say that third condition, fearing for one's life, is so subjective and hard to prove false in court that it will "encourage people to stay in the confrontation" when they might otherwise have walked away. 

"It will encourage people to avoid taking an open, obvious way out of a situation," he said. 

Miller is an attorney for the U.S. Army reserves and recently returned from a tour as a Rule of Law Director for NATO/US forces in Afghanistan. He's also the co-sponsor of House Bill 38 that would put the duty to retreat back in state law.

He thinks stand your ground laws push civilians away from the rules for the use of force and into the military rules of engagement without proper training.

"We don’t need Joe and Susie Buckeye playing the role of police," Miller said. "These stand your ground folks came at this from the presumption that Ohio is some wild west frontier town."

Delbert said this problem comes down to proper training. 

"We teach this at exhaustion during our classes. It has to be the last thing when you're out of options to use lethal force," he said. "You might not get charged criminally, but you will get sued civilly. Your life is going to change the moment you pull the trigger."

And Judi Phelps, who owns the On Guard Defense training center in Hocking Hills, said something similar when she testified in support of stand your ground last year.

She teaches her students to avoid, escape, defend. They understand that part. What confuses the women in her classes is the subjectiveness of "no reasonable means to retreat or escape."

"They wonder aloud whether they should even carry because they are left feeling that even if they defended themselves and survived that threat, the bigger threat could end up being victimized, once again, by the courts," Phelps said. "They don’t want to go to prison. They don’t want to hurt or kill someone. They just want to be left alone and be safe."

Bracing for impact

Communities of color across Ohio are doing another kind of training ahead of Tuesday's change. 

"Shoot first laws are already in place in other states and have proven to disproportionately harm Black people and increase homicide rates," House Minority Leader Emilia Sykes, D-Akron, said. "Ohio's new shoot first law will threaten more Black lives and ultimately make us all less safe."

That's why Rep. Dontavius Jarrells, D-Columbus, is working with community leaders in his district to explain how the new law works. 

"In my district, we’ve seen a large number of shootings and violence. I think about the increased number of incidents that are likely to happen now," he said. "I want to make sure my constituents understand the magnitude of this legislation on their lives."

"Perception is power," Jarrells added. And the way people perceive stand your ground laws — even if it's incorrect — can have fatal consequences.

Michael Drejka, of Florida, was sentenced to 20 years in prison even though he claimed he stood his ground when he shot Markeis McGlockton over a parking space in 2018. 

Justice may have been served in that case, Jarrells said. But McGlockton's four children are still going to grow up without a father. 

"People don’t understand the specifics of stand your ground. They just hear the words and take a meaning from them," Jarrells said. "We are creating a space where the perception of this law could lead to violence."

astaver@dispatch.com

@annastaver

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

buckle up.......

Ohio's 'stand your ground' law takes effect Tuesday. Here's what you need to know

Anna Staver

The Columbus Dispatch

Ohio's rules for using deadly force change on Tuesday.

That's when a new law, passed by Republicans in December, takes away the legal requirement that people try to retreat from a situation before using deadly force. 

Supporters say Ohio's "stand your ground" law will give much needed protections to people caught in life-threatening situations. But opponents argue that "make my day" laws actually make people of color less safe and increase the number of gun deaths in America.

What is the law in Ohio?

Ohio gave people expansive self-defense rights while inside their homes and cars back in 2008, but the rules were different for city streets, county fairs and the grocery store parking lots. They required a person to attempt to retreat in public before firing a weapon. That requirement goes away Tuesday. 

What doesn't change though is someone has to meet the standard for using lethal force.

"It doesn’t give you a right to shoot and ask questions later," said Eric Delbert, a police officer and co-owner of L.E.P.D. Firearms and Range in Columbus.

Here's what that standard means: A person must have the legal right to be wherever they are. They can't be the one who started the altercation. They have to fear for their life or serious bodily injury, and they had to be able to articulate why. 

"If someone comes up and hits you, it may or may not be a justification...," Delbert said. "That’s for a jury to decide. It doesn’t change the standard for utilizing lethal force."

Stand your ground or license to kill?

Opponents like Rep. Adam Miller, D-Columbus, say that third condition, fearing for one's life, is so subjective and hard to prove false in court that it will "encourage people to stay in the confrontation" when they might otherwise have walked away. 

"It will encourage people to avoid taking an open, obvious way out of a situation," he said. 

Miller is an attorney for the U.S. Army reserves and recently returned from a tour as a Rule of Law Director for NATO/US forces in Afghanistan. He's also the co-sponsor of House Bill 38 that would put the duty to retreat back in state law.

He thinks stand your ground laws push civilians away from the rules for the use of force and into the military rules of engagement without proper training.

"We don’t need Joe and Susie Buckeye playing the role of police," Miller said. "These stand your ground folks came at this from the presumption that Ohio is some wild west frontier town."

Delbert said this problem comes down to proper training. 

"We teach this at exhaustion during our classes. It has to be the last thing when you're out of options to use lethal force," he said. "You might not get charged criminally, but you will get sued civilly. Your life is going to change the moment you pull the trigger."

And Judi Phelps, who owns the On Guard Defense training center in Hocking Hills, said something similar when she testified in support of stand your ground last year.

She teaches her students to avoid, escape, defend. They understand that part. What confuses the women in her classes is the subjectiveness of "no reasonable means to retreat or escape."

"They wonder aloud whether they should even carry because they are left feeling that even if they defended themselves and survived that threat, the bigger threat could end up being victimized, once again, by the courts," Phelps said. "They don’t want to go to prison. They don’t want to hurt or kill someone. They just want to be left alone and be safe."

Bracing for impact

Communities of color across Ohio are doing another kind of training ahead of Tuesday's change. 

"Shoot first laws are already in place in other states and have proven to disproportionately harm Black people and increase homicide rates," House Minority Leader Emilia Sykes, D-Akron, said. "Ohio's new shoot first law will threaten more Black lives and ultimately make us all less safe."

That's why Rep. Dontavius Jarrells, D-Columbus, is working with community leaders in his district to explain how the new law works. 

"In my district, we’ve seen a large number of shootings and violence. I think about the increased number of incidents that are likely to happen now," he said. "I want to make sure my constituents understand the magnitude of this legislation on their lives."

"Perception is power," Jarrells added. And the way people perceive stand your ground laws — even if it's incorrect — can have fatal consequences.

Michael Drejka, of Florida, was sentenced to 20 years in prison even though he claimed he stood his ground when he shot Markeis McGlockton over a parking space in 2018. 

Justice may have been served in that case, Jarrells said. But McGlockton's four children are still going to grow up without a father. 

"People don’t understand the specifics of stand your ground. They just hear the words and take a meaning from them," Jarrells said. "We are creating a space where the perception of this law could lead to violence."

astaver@dispatch.com

@annastaver

It's not the wild west.  People do need to understand the law and it's intentions though.  You need to avoid confrontations and just because they don't go your way does not mean you get to shoot them...

mickeyrat

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

buckle up.......

Ohio's 'stand your ground' law takes effect Tuesday. Here's what you need to know

Anna Staver

The Columbus Dispatch

Ohio's rules for using deadly force change on Tuesday.

That's when a new law, passed by Republicans in December, takes away the legal requirement that people try to retreat from a situation before using deadly force. 

Supporters say Ohio's "stand your ground" law will give much needed protections to people caught in life-threatening situations. But opponents argue that "make my day" laws actually make people of color less safe and increase the number of gun deaths in America.

What is the law in Ohio?

Ohio gave people expansive self-defense rights while inside their homes and cars back in 2008, but the rules were different for city streets, county fairs and the grocery store parking lots. They required a person to attempt to retreat in public before firing a weapon. That requirement goes away Tuesday. 

What doesn't change though is someone has to meet the standard for using lethal force.

"It doesn’t give you a right to shoot and ask questions later," said Eric Delbert, a police officer and co-owner of L.E.P.D. Firearms and Range in Columbus.

Here's what that standard means: A person must have the legal right to be wherever they are. They can't be the one who started the altercation. They have to fear for their life or serious bodily injury, and they had to be able to articulate why. 

"If someone comes up and hits you, it may or may not be a justification...," Delbert said. "That’s for a jury to decide. It doesn’t change the standard for utilizing lethal force."

Stand your ground or license to kill?

Opponents like Rep. Adam Miller, D-Columbus, say that third condition, fearing for one's life, is so subjective and hard to prove false in court that it will "encourage people to stay in the confrontation" when they might otherwise have walked away. 

"It will encourage people to avoid taking an open, obvious way out of a situation," he said. 

Miller is an attorney for the U.S. Army reserves and recently returned from a tour as a Rule of Law Director for NATO/US forces in Afghanistan. He's also the co-sponsor of House Bill 38 that would put the duty to retreat back in state law.

He thinks stand your ground laws push civilians away from the rules for the use of force and into the military rules of engagement without proper training.

"We don’t need Joe and Susie Buckeye playing the role of police," Miller said. "These stand your ground folks came at this from the presumption that Ohio is some wild west frontier town."

Delbert said this problem comes down to proper training. 

"We teach this at exhaustion during our classes. It has to be the last thing when you're out of options to use lethal force," he said. "You might not get charged criminally, but you will get sued civilly. Your life is going to change the moment you pull the trigger."

And Judi Phelps, who owns the On Guard Defense training center in Hocking Hills, said something similar when she testified in support of stand your ground last year.

She teaches her students to avoid, escape, defend. They understand that part. What confuses the women in her classes is the subjectiveness of "no reasonable means to retreat or escape."

"They wonder aloud whether they should even carry because they are left feeling that even if they defended themselves and survived that threat, the bigger threat could end up being victimized, once again, by the courts," Phelps said. "They don’t want to go to prison. They don’t want to hurt or kill someone. They just want to be left alone and be safe."

Bracing for impact

Communities of color across Ohio are doing another kind of training ahead of Tuesday's change. 

"Shoot first laws are already in place in other states and have proven to disproportionately harm Black people and increase homicide rates," House Minority Leader Emilia Sykes, D-Akron, said. "Ohio's new shoot first law will threaten more Black lives and ultimately make us all less safe."

That's why Rep. Dontavius Jarrells, D-Columbus, is working with community leaders in his district to explain how the new law works. 

"In my district, we’ve seen a large number of shootings and violence. I think about the increased number of incidents that are likely to happen now," he said. "I want to make sure my constituents understand the magnitude of this legislation on their lives."

"Perception is power," Jarrells added. And the way people perceive stand your ground laws — even if it's incorrect — can have fatal consequences.

Michael Drejka, of Florida, was sentenced to 20 years in prison even though he claimed he stood his ground when he shot Markeis McGlockton over a parking space in 2018. 

Justice may have been served in that case, Jarrells said. But McGlockton's four children are still going to grow up without a father. 

"People don’t understand the specifics of stand your ground. They just hear the words and take a meaning from them," Jarrells said. "We are creating a space where the perception of this law could lead to violence."

astaver@dispatch.com

@annastaver

It's not the wild west.  People do need to understand the law and it's intentions though.  You need to avoid confrontations and just because they don't go your way does not mean you get to shoot them...

dude , some dumb fuck customer shot at another who was stealing a 12 pack of beer at a speedway gas station.

far too many are already irresponsible in regards to weapons. this opens the door to more irresponsibility. to use a phrase those against any kind of reform use, its a slippery slope.....

Merkin Baller

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

buckle up.......

Ohio's 'stand your ground' law takes effect Tuesday. Here's what you need to know

Anna Staver

The Columbus Dispatch

Ohio's rules for using deadly force change on Tuesday.

That's when a new law, passed by Republicans in December, takes away the legal requirement that people try to retreat from a situation before using deadly force. 

Supporters say Ohio's "stand your ground" law will give much needed protections to people caught in life-threatening situations. But opponents argue that "make my day" laws actually make people of color less safe and increase the number of gun deaths in America.

What is the law in Ohio?

Ohio gave people expansive self-defense rights while inside their homes and cars back in 2008, but the rules were different for city streets, county fairs and the grocery store parking lots. They required a person to attempt to retreat in public before firing a weapon. That requirement goes away Tuesday. 

What doesn't change though is someone has to meet the standard for using lethal force.

"It doesn’t give you a right to shoot and ask questions later," said Eric Delbert, a police officer and co-owner of L.E.P.D. Firearms and Range in Columbus.

Here's what that standard means: A person must have the legal right to be wherever they are. They can't be the one who started the altercation. They have to fear for their life or serious bodily injury, and they had to be able to articulate why. 

"If someone comes up and hits you, it may or may not be a justification...," Delbert said. "That’s for a jury to decide. It doesn’t change the standard for utilizing lethal force."

Stand your ground or license to kill?

Opponents like Rep. Adam Miller, D-Columbus, say that third condition, fearing for one's life, is so subjective and hard to prove false in court that it will "encourage people to stay in the confrontation" when they might otherwise have walked away. 

"It will encourage people to avoid taking an open, obvious way out of a situation," he said. 

Miller is an attorney for the U.S. Army reserves and recently returned from a tour as a Rule of Law Director for NATO/US forces in Afghanistan. He's also the co-sponsor of House Bill 38 that would put the duty to retreat back in state law.

He thinks stand your ground laws push civilians away from the rules for the use of force and into the military rules of engagement without proper training.

"We don’t need Joe and Susie Buckeye playing the role of police," Miller said. "These stand your ground folks came at this from the presumption that Ohio is some wild west frontier town."

Delbert said this problem comes down to proper training. 

"We teach this at exhaustion during our classes. It has to be the last thing when you're out of options to use lethal force," he said. "You might not get charged criminally, but you will get sued civilly. Your life is going to change the moment you pull the trigger."

And Judi Phelps, who owns the On Guard Defense training center in Hocking Hills, said something similar when she testified in support of stand your ground last year.

She teaches her students to avoid, escape, defend. They understand that part. What confuses the women in her classes is the subjectiveness of "no reasonable means to retreat or escape."

"They wonder aloud whether they should even carry because they are left feeling that even if they defended themselves and survived that threat, the bigger threat could end up being victimized, once again, by the courts," Phelps said. "They don’t want to go to prison. They don’t want to hurt or kill someone. They just want to be left alone and be safe."

Bracing for impact

Communities of color across Ohio are doing another kind of training ahead of Tuesday's change. 

"Shoot first laws are already in place in other states and have proven to disproportionately harm Black people and increase homicide rates," House Minority Leader Emilia Sykes, D-Akron, said. "Ohio's new shoot first law will threaten more Black lives and ultimately make us all less safe."

That's why Rep. Dontavius Jarrells, D-Columbus, is working with community leaders in his district to explain how the new law works. 

"In my district, we’ve seen a large number of shootings and violence. I think about the increased number of incidents that are likely to happen now," he said. "I want to make sure my constituents understand the magnitude of this legislation on their lives."

"Perception is power," Jarrells added. And the way people perceive stand your ground laws — even if it's incorrect — can have fatal consequences.

Michael Drejka, of Florida, was sentenced to 20 years in prison even though he claimed he stood his ground when he shot Markeis McGlockton over a parking space in 2018. 

Justice may have been served in that case, Jarrells said. But McGlockton's four children are still going to grow up without a father. 

"People don’t understand the specifics of stand your ground. They just hear the words and take a meaning from them," Jarrells said. "We are creating a space where the perception of this law could lead to violence."

astaver@dispatch.com

@annastaver

It's not the wild west.  People do need to understand the law and it's intentions though.  You need to avoid confrontations and just because they don't go your way does not mean you get to shoot them...

Armed people feel less need to avoid confrontation. 

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

buckle up.......

Ohio's 'stand your ground' law takes effect Tuesday. Here's what you need to know

Anna Staver

The Columbus Dispatch

Ohio's rules for using deadly force change on Tuesday.

That's when a new law, passed by Republicans in December, takes away the legal requirement that people try to retreat from a situation before using deadly force. 

Supporters say Ohio's "stand your ground" law will give much needed protections to people caught in life-threatening situations. But opponents argue that "make my day" laws actually make people of color less safe and increase the number of gun deaths in America.

What is the law in Ohio?

Ohio gave people expansive self-defense rights while inside their homes and cars back in 2008, but the rules were different for city streets, county fairs and the grocery store parking lots. They required a person to attempt to retreat in public before firing a weapon. That requirement goes away Tuesday. 

What doesn't change though is someone has to meet the standard for using lethal force.

"It doesn’t give you a right to shoot and ask questions later," said Eric Delbert, a police officer and co-owner of L.E.P.D. Firearms and Range in Columbus.

Here's what that standard means: A person must have the legal right to be wherever they are. They can't be the one who started the altercation. They have to fear for their life or serious bodily injury, and they had to be able to articulate why. 

"If someone comes up and hits you, it may or may not be a justification...," Delbert said. "That’s for a jury to decide. It doesn’t change the standard for utilizing lethal force."

Stand your ground or license to kill?

Opponents like Rep. Adam Miller, D-Columbus, say that third condition, fearing for one's life, is so subjective and hard to prove false in court that it will "encourage people to stay in the confrontation" when they might otherwise have walked away. 

"It will encourage people to avoid taking an open, obvious way out of a situation," he said. 

Miller is an attorney for the U.S. Army reserves and recently returned from a tour as a Rule of Law Director for NATO/US forces in Afghanistan. He's also the co-sponsor of House Bill 38 that would put the duty to retreat back in state law.

He thinks stand your ground laws push civilians away from the rules for the use of force and into the military rules of engagement without proper training.

"We don’t need Joe and Susie Buckeye playing the role of police," Miller said. "These stand your ground folks came at this from the presumption that Ohio is some wild west frontier town."

Delbert said this problem comes down to proper training. 

"We teach this at exhaustion during our classes. It has to be the last thing when you're out of options to use lethal force," he said. "You might not get charged criminally, but you will get sued civilly. Your life is going to change the moment you pull the trigger."

And Judi Phelps, who owns the On Guard Defense training center in Hocking Hills, said something similar when she testified in support of stand your ground last year.

She teaches her students to avoid, escape, defend. They understand that part. What confuses the women in her classes is the subjectiveness of "no reasonable means to retreat or escape."

"They wonder aloud whether they should even carry because they are left feeling that even if they defended themselves and survived that threat, the bigger threat could end up being victimized, once again, by the courts," Phelps said. "They don’t want to go to prison. They don’t want to hurt or kill someone. They just want to be left alone and be safe."

Bracing for impact

Communities of color across Ohio are doing another kind of training ahead of Tuesday's change. 

"Shoot first laws are already in place in other states and have proven to disproportionately harm Black people and increase homicide rates," House Minority Leader Emilia Sykes, D-Akron, said. "Ohio's new shoot first law will threaten more Black lives and ultimately make us all less safe."

That's why Rep. Dontavius Jarrells, D-Columbus, is working with community leaders in his district to explain how the new law works. 

"In my district, we’ve seen a large number of shootings and violence. I think about the increased number of incidents that are likely to happen now," he said. "I want to make sure my constituents understand the magnitude of this legislation on their lives."

"Perception is power," Jarrells added. And the way people perceive stand your ground laws — even if it's incorrect — can have fatal consequences.

Michael Drejka, of Florida, was sentenced to 20 years in prison even though he claimed he stood his ground when he shot Markeis McGlockton over a parking space in 2018. 

Justice may have been served in that case, Jarrells said. But McGlockton's four children are still going to grow up without a father. 

"People don’t understand the specifics of stand your ground. They just hear the words and take a meaning from them," Jarrells said. "We are creating a space where the perception of this law could lead to violence."

astaver@dispatch.com

@annastaver

It's not the wild west.  People do need to understand the law and it's intentions though.  You need to avoid confrontations and just because they don't go your way does not mean you get to shoot them...

dude , some dumb fuck customer shot at another who was stealing a 12 pack of beer at a speedway gas station.

far too many are already irresponsible in regards to weapons. this opens the door to more irresponsibility. to use a phrase those against any kind of reform use, its a slippery slope.....

That person needs to be tried and convicted.

josevolution

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

buckle up.......

Ohio's 'stand your ground' law takes effect Tuesday. Here's what you need to know

Anna Staver

The Columbus Dispatch

Ohio's rules for using deadly force change on Tuesday.

That's when a new law, passed by Republicans in December, takes away the legal requirement that people try to retreat from a situation before using deadly force. 

Supporters say Ohio's "stand your ground" law will give much needed protections to people caught in life-threatening situations. But opponents argue that "make my day" laws actually make people of color less safe and increase the number of gun deaths in America.

What is the law in Ohio?

Ohio gave people expansive self-defense rights while inside their homes and cars back in 2008, but the rules were different for city streets, county fairs and the grocery store parking lots. They required a person to attempt to retreat in public before firing a weapon. That requirement goes away Tuesday. 

What doesn't change though is someone has to meet the standard for using lethal force.

"It doesn’t give you a right to shoot and ask questions later," said Eric Delbert, a police officer and co-owner of L.E.P.D. Firearms and Range in Columbus.

Here's what that standard means: A person must have the legal right to be wherever they are. They can't be the one who started the altercation. They have to fear for their life or serious bodily injury, and they had to be able to articulate why. 

"If someone comes up and hits you, it may or may not be a justification...," Delbert said. "That’s for a jury to decide. It doesn’t change the standard for utilizing lethal force."

Stand your ground or license to kill?

Opponents like Rep. Adam Miller, D-Columbus, say that third condition, fearing for one's life, is so subjective and hard to prove false in court that it will "encourage people to stay in the confrontation" when they might otherwise have walked away. 

"It will encourage people to avoid taking an open, obvious way out of a situation," he said. 

Miller is an attorney for the U.S. Army reserves and recently returned from a tour as a Rule of Law Director for NATO/US forces in Afghanistan. He's also the co-sponsor of House Bill 38 that would put the duty to retreat back in state law.

He thinks stand your ground laws push civilians away from the rules for the use of force and into the military rules of engagement without proper training.

"We don’t need Joe and Susie Buckeye playing the role of police," Miller said. "These stand your ground folks came at this from the presumption that Ohio is some wild west frontier town."

Delbert said this problem comes down to proper training. 

"We teach this at exhaustion during our classes. It has to be the last thing when you're out of options to use lethal force," he said. "You might not get charged criminally, but you will get sued civilly. Your life is going to change the moment you pull the trigger."

And Judi Phelps, who owns the On Guard Defense training center in Hocking Hills, said something similar when she testified in support of stand your ground last year.

She teaches her students to avoid, escape, defend. They understand that part. What confuses the women in her classes is the subjectiveness of "no reasonable means to retreat or escape."

"They wonder aloud whether they should even carry because they are left feeling that even if they defended themselves and survived that threat, the bigger threat could end up being victimized, once again, by the courts," Phelps said. "They don’t want to go to prison. They don’t want to hurt or kill someone. They just want to be left alone and be safe."

Bracing for impact

Communities of color across Ohio are doing another kind of training ahead of Tuesday's change. 

"Shoot first laws are already in place in other states and have proven to disproportionately harm Black people and increase homicide rates," House Minority Leader Emilia Sykes, D-Akron, said. "Ohio's new shoot first law will threaten more Black lives and ultimately make us all less safe."

That's why Rep. Dontavius Jarrells, D-Columbus, is working with community leaders in his district to explain how the new law works. 

"In my district, we’ve seen a large number of shootings and violence. I think about the increased number of incidents that are likely to happen now," he said. "I want to make sure my constituents understand the magnitude of this legislation on their lives."

"Perception is power," Jarrells added. And the way people perceive stand your ground laws — even if it's incorrect — can have fatal consequences.

Michael Drejka, of Florida, was sentenced to 20 years in prison even though he claimed he stood his ground when he shot Markeis McGlockton over a parking space in 2018. 

Justice may have been served in that case, Jarrells said. But McGlockton's four children are still going to grow up without a father. 

"People don’t understand the specifics of stand your ground. They just hear the words and take a meaning from them," Jarrells said. "We are creating a space where the perception of this law could lead to violence."

astaver@dispatch.com

@annastaver

It's not the wild west.  People do need to understand the law and it's intentions though.  You need to avoid confrontations and just because they don't go your way does not mean you get to shoot them...

Armed people feel less need to avoid confrontation. 

So they feel more courage as opposed to not having a gun during a confrontation.

Halifax2TheMax

They just needed more guns.

https://www.boston.com/news/crime/2021/04/05/6-relatives-dead-in-apparent-murder-suicide-at-texas-home

nicknyr15

Halifax2TheMax said:

They just needed more guns.

https://www.boston.com/news/crime/2021/04/05/6-relatives-dead-in-apparent-murder-suicide-at-texas-home

Such a disturbing story. 

Bentleyspop

Unfortunately a must read...

https://twitter.com/ChrisCillizza/status/1379417743049515010?s=19

Halifax2TheMax

I guess everyone should have a 108’ yacht when they feel threatened? Wayne LaPue is a much bigger pussy than I originally thought. All that bluster and rhetoric and he probably doesn’t even go to the range. Keep sending those dollars. Suckers.

https://apple.news/A0WoUDagvRmeVN1zRwHZ5Ew

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

I guess everyone should have a 108’ yacht when they feel threatened? Wayne LaPue is a much bigger pussy than I originally thought. All that bluster and rhetoric and he probably doesn’t even go to the range. Keep sending those dollars. Suckers.

https://apple.news/A0WoUDagvRmeVN1zRwHZ5Ew

I wonder if the people that threatened death upon him would shoot him.  Isn't that irony?

Bentleyspop

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

I guess everyone should have a 108’ yacht when they feel threatened? Wayne LaPue is a much bigger pussy than I originally thought. All that bluster and rhetoric and he probably doesn’t even go to the range. Keep sending those dollars. Suckers.

https://apple.news/A0WoUDagvRmeVN1zRwHZ5Ew

I wonder if the people that threatened death upon him would shoot him.  Isn't that irony?

I would think so.
Live by the gun die by the gun

Bentleyspop

Local doctor and two children are among 5 killed in South Carolina mass shooting, authorities say. http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_topstories/~3/oQLN6Xt1-ec/index.html

Lerxst1992

Bentleyspop said:

Local doctor and two children are among 5 killed in South Carolina mass shooting, authorities say. http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_topstories/~3/oQLN6Xt1-ec/index.html

Must be Morning in Murica again.

PJPOWER

Update:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31214902/report-former-nfl-player-phillip-adams-kills-5-himself

Crazy...

bootlegger10

What an embarrassment the U.S.'s love of guns is. 

mickeyrat

posting here too...

Joe Biden Public health Epidemics Violence Shootings Gun politics Gun violence

Biden making new moves on guns, including naming ATF boss

By ALEXANDRA JAFFE, AAMER MADHANI and MICHAEL BALSAMO

5 mins ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden, in his first gun control measures since taking office, announced a half-dozen executive actions Thursday aimed at addressing a proliferation of gun violence across the nation that he called an “epidemic and an international embarrassment."

“It is actually a public health crisis,” Biden said during remarks at the White House.

Greeting the families of gun violence victims and activists, he assured them: “We’re absolutely determined to make change."

His Thursday announcement delivers on a pledge Biden made last month to take what he termed immediate “common-sense steps” to address gun violence, after a series of mass shootings drew renewed attention to the issue. His announcement came the same day as yet another shooting, this one in South Carolina, where five people were killed.

But Thursday's announcement underscores the limitations of Biden's executive power to act on guns. They include moves to tighten regulations on homemade guns and provide more resources for gun-violence prevention, but fall far short of the sweeping gun-control agenda Biden laid out on the campaign trail.

Indeed, the White House has repeatedly emphasized the need for legislative action to tackle the issue. But while the House passed a background-check bill last month, gun control measures face slim prospects in an evenly divided Senate, where Republicans remain near-unified against most proposals.

Biden is tightening regulations of buyers of “ghost guns” — homemade firearms that usually are assembled from parts and milled with a metal-cutting machine and often lack serial numbers used to trace them. It’s legal to build a gun in a home or a workshop and there is no federal requirement for a background check. The goal is to “help stop the proliferation of these firearms,” according to the White House.

The Justice Department will issue a proposed rule aimed at reining in ghost guns within 30 days, though details of the rule weren't immediately issued.

A second proposed rule, expected within 60 days, will tighten regulations on pistol-stabilizing braces, like the one used by the Boulder, Colorado, shooter in a rampage last month that left 10 dead. The rule will designate pistols used with stabilizing braces as short-barreled rifles, which require a federal license to own and are subject to a more thorough application process and a $200 tax.

The department also is publishing model legislation within 60 days that is intended to make it easier for states to adopt their own “red flag” laws. Such laws allow for individuals to petition a court to allow the police to confiscate weapons from a person deemed to be a danger to themselves or others.

The department also will begin to provide more data on firearms trafficking, starting with a new comprehensive report on the issue. The administration says that hasn’t been done in more than two decades.

Biden is also nominating David Chipman, a former federal agent and adviser at the gun control group Giffords, to be director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The Biden administration will also make investments in community violence intervention programs, which are aimed at reducing gun violence in urban communities, across five federal agencies.

Officials said the executive actions were “initial steps” completed during Garland’s first weeks on the job and more may be coming.

The ATF is currently run by an acting director, Regina Lombardo. Gun-control advocates have emphasized the significance of this position in enforcing gun laws, and Chipman is certain to win praise from this group. During his time as a senior policy adviser with Giffords, he spent considerable effort pushing for greater regulation and enforcement on ghost guns, changes to the background check system and measures to reduce the trafficking of illegal firearms.

Chipman spent 25 years as an agent at the ATF, where he worked on stopping a trafficking ring that sent illegal firearms from Virginia to New York, and served on the ATF’s SWAT team. Chipman is a gun owner.

He is an explosives expert and was among the team involved in investigating the Oklahoma City bombing and the first World Trade Center bombing. He also was involved in investigating a series of church bombings in Alabama in the 1990s. He retired from the ATF in 2012.

The White House fact sheet said Chipman has worked “to advance common-sense gun safety laws.”

During his campaign, Biden promised to prioritize new gun control measures as president, including enacting universal background check legislation, banning online sales of firearms and the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. But gun-control advocates have said that while they were heartened by signs from the White House that they took the issue seriously, they've been disappointed by the lack of early action.

With the announcement of the new measures, however, advocates lauded Biden's first moves to combat gun violence.

“Each of these executive actions will start to address the epidemic of gun violence that has raged throughout the pandemic, and begin to make good on President Biden’s promise to be the strongest gun safety president in history,” said John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety.

Feinblatt in particular praised the move to regulate ghost guns, which he said “will undoubtedly save countless lives,” and lauded Chipman as an “invaluable point person” in the fight against illegal gun trafficking. He also said the group is looking forward to continuing to work with the Biden administration on further gun control measures, but it's unclear what next moves the White House, or lawmakers on Capitol Hill, will be able to take.

Biden himself expressed uncertainty late last month when asked if he had the political capital to pass new gun control proposals, telling reporters, “I haven’t done any counting yet."

For years, federal officials have been sounding the alarm about an increasing black market for homemade, military-style semi-automatic rifles and handguns. Ghost guns have increasingly turned up at crime scenes and in recent years have been turning up more and more when federal agents are purchasing guns in undercover operations from gang members and other criminals.

It is hard to say how many are circulating on the streets, in part because in many cases police departments don’t even contact the federal government about the guns because they can’t be traced.

Some states, like California, have enacted laws in recent years to require serial numbers be stamped on ghost guns.

The critical component in building an untraceable gun is what is known as the lower receiver, a part typically made of metal or polymer. An unfinished receiver — sometimes referred to as an “80-percent receiver” — can be legally bought online with no serial numbers or other markings on it, no license required.

A gunman who killed his wife and four others in Northern California in 2017 had been prohibited from owning firearms, but he built his own to skirt the court order before his rampage. And in 2019, a teenager used a homemade handgun to fatally shoot two classmates and wound three others at a school in suburban Los Angeles.

___

Associated Press writer Lisa Marie Pane in Boise, Idaho, contributed to this report.

josevolution

mickeyrat said:

posting here too...

Joe Biden Public health Epidemics Violence Shootings Gun politics Gun violence

Biden making new moves on guns, including naming ATF boss

By ALEXANDRA JAFFE, AAMER MADHANI and MICHAEL BALSAMO

5 mins ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden, in his first gun control measures since taking office, announced a half-dozen executive actions Thursday aimed at addressing a proliferation of gun violence across the nation that he called an “epidemic and an international embarrassment."

“It is actually a public health crisis,” Biden said during remarks at the White House.

Greeting the families of gun violence victims and activists, he assured them: “We’re absolutely determined to make change."

His Thursday announcement delivers on a pledge Biden made last month to take what he termed immediate “common-sense steps” to address gun violence, after a series of mass shootings drew renewed attention to the issue. His announcement came the same day as yet another shooting, this one in South Carolina, where five people were killed.

But Thursday's announcement underscores the limitations of Biden's executive power to act on guns. They include moves to tighten regulations on homemade guns and provide more resources for gun-violence prevention, but fall far short of the sweeping gun-control agenda Biden laid out on the campaign trail.

Indeed, the White House has repeatedly emphasized the need for legislative action to tackle the issue. But while the House passed a background-check bill last month, gun control measures face slim prospects in an evenly divided Senate, where Republicans remain near-unified against most proposals.

Biden is tightening regulations of buyers of “ghost guns” — homemade firearms that usually are assembled from parts and milled with a metal-cutting machine and often lack serial numbers used to trace them. It’s legal to build a gun in a home or a workshop and there is no federal requirement for a background check. The goal is to “help stop the proliferation of these firearms,” according to the White House.

The Justice Department will issue a proposed rule aimed at reining in ghost guns within 30 days, though details of the rule weren't immediately issued.

A second proposed rule, expected within 60 days, will tighten regulations on pistol-stabilizing braces, like the one used by the Boulder, Colorado, shooter in a rampage last month that left 10 dead. The rule will designate pistols used with stabilizing braces as short-barreled rifles, which require a federal license to own and are subject to a more thorough application process and a $200 tax.

The department also is publishing model legislation within 60 days that is intended to make it easier for states to adopt their own “red flag” laws. Such laws allow for individuals to petition a court to allow the police to confiscate weapons from a person deemed to be a danger to themselves or others.

The department also will begin to provide more data on firearms trafficking, starting with a new comprehensive report on the issue. The administration says that hasn’t been done in more than two decades.

Biden is also nominating David Chipman, a former federal agent and adviser at the gun control group Giffords, to be director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The Biden administration will also make investments in community violence intervention programs, which are aimed at reducing gun violence in urban communities, across five federal agencies.

Officials said the executive actions were “initial steps” completed during Garland’s first weeks on the job and more may be coming.

The ATF is currently run by an acting director, Regina Lombardo. Gun-control advocates have emphasized the significance of this position in enforcing gun laws, and Chipman is certain to win praise from this group. During his time as a senior policy adviser with Giffords, he spent considerable effort pushing for greater regulation and enforcement on ghost guns, changes to the background check system and measures to reduce the trafficking of illegal firearms.

Chipman spent 25 years as an agent at the ATF, where he worked on stopping a trafficking ring that sent illegal firearms from Virginia to New York, and served on the ATF’s SWAT team. Chipman is a gun owner.

He is an explosives expert and was among the team involved in investigating the Oklahoma City bombing and the first World Trade Center bombing. He also was involved in investigating a series of church bombings in Alabama in the 1990s. He retired from the ATF in 2012.

The White House fact sheet said Chipman has worked “to advance common-sense gun safety laws.”

During his campaign, Biden promised to prioritize new gun control measures as president, including enacting universal background check legislation, banning online sales of firearms and the manufacture and sale of assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. But gun-control advocates have said that while they were heartened by signs from the White House that they took the issue seriously, they've been disappointed by the lack of early action.

With the announcement of the new measures, however, advocates lauded Biden's first moves to combat gun violence.

“Each of these executive actions will start to address the epidemic of gun violence that has raged throughout the pandemic, and begin to make good on President Biden’s promise to be the strongest gun safety president in history,” said John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety.

Feinblatt in particular praised the move to regulate ghost guns, which he said “will undoubtedly save countless lives,” and lauded Chipman as an “invaluable point person” in the fight against illegal gun trafficking. He also said the group is looking forward to continuing to work with the Biden administration on further gun control measures, but it's unclear what next moves the White House, or lawmakers on Capitol Hill, will be able to take.

Biden himself expressed uncertainty late last month when asked if he had the political capital to pass new gun control proposals, telling reporters, “I haven’t done any counting yet."

For years, federal officials have been sounding the alarm about an increasing black market for homemade, military-style semi-automatic rifles and handguns. Ghost guns have increasingly turned up at crime scenes and in recent years have been turning up more and more when federal agents are purchasing guns in undercover operations from gang members and other criminals.

It is hard to say how many are circulating on the streets, in part because in many cases police departments don’t even contact the federal government about the guns because they can’t be traced.

Some states, like California, have enacted laws in recent years to require serial numbers be stamped on ghost guns.

The critical component in building an untraceable gun is what is known as the lower receiver, a part typically made of metal or polymer. An unfinished receiver — sometimes referred to as an “80-percent receiver” — can be legally bought online with no serial numbers or other markings on it, no license required.

A gunman who killed his wife and four others in Northern California in 2017 had been prohibited from owning firearms, but he built his own to skirt the court order before his rampage. And in 2019, a teenager used a homemade handgun to fatally shoot two classmates and wound three others at a school in suburban Los Angeles.

___

Associated Press writer Lisa Marie Pane in Boise, Idaho, contributed to this report.

Good not let the 2nd amendment freaks heads explode!