America's Gun Violence

my2hands

I'm not offended... i was having a little fun... not sure i'm the one that needs to lighten up here lol

my2hands

Not much offends me by the way

PJPOWER

Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!

PJPOWER

my2hands said:

Not much offends me by the way

I find your lack of offense extremely offensive!

Bentleyspop

PJPOWER said:

Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!

With the currently elected president setting an example by acting like an immature, petulant, spoiled 5 yr old you should be okay with people not acting like an "adult".

Meltdown99

Bentleyspop said:

Meltdown99 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

The problem with many of the laws people propose are suggest are like McGruff said, the "feel good" laws but don;t do anything. We could eliminate every assault rifle in the country, prevent every accident, eliminate 100% of the shootings resulting from a heated argument and that would just place a small dent in the data.
Laws never seem to target the root of the problem. We don't want to address gang problems are even admit a connection between family status and violence. Reporters have gotten fired for suggesting that. We want to start with what causes 1% of the problem and turn a blind eye to the 99%. We should do it the other way around.

How many thus far this year are due to "gang activity?" A "small dent" in the data is a start and worth aiming for. But maybe not.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/children-killed

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/accidental-deaths

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/teens-killed

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting?year=2019

'Murica, Woot!

Woot.
Okay, my 1% was exaggerated. None of those links were related to anything I said however. Domestic violence and accidents account for roughly 1000 gun deaths a year. So why do we focus on that and ignore the other 30,000+ ?
My comment was about storage of ammo and how it is to prevent accidents and heated debates, not sure how all those links fit in. Locking ammo up separately won't prevent any of those accidents. SO now we're down to just focusing on about 500-600 out of the 30,000+ deaths. And not that 500-600 isn't worth considering, but my point was why continue to ignore much bigger factors? You didnt address that. 
 Locking them up separately doesn't seem like it would prevent the domestic heated argument either for reasons already discussed.
Woot

Care to clarify your comment about how we don't focus on gang violence or consider the "family structure?" Who does that refer to? Source of your 1,000 number for domestic violence and accidents total?

And I wasn't commenting solely, or really at all, on your comments about separate storage of guns and ammo and folks having time to cool down. 40,000+ a year, no big deal, nothing can be done. I get where the pro-gun crowd is coming from. Nothing can be done. its a blip. Its minor. Nothing we can do will reduce the numbers, so why try. I get it.

https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/
In an average month, 50 American women are shot to death by intimate partners,4
50 per month = 600 a year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
puts accidental shooting at about 500.

Storing guns and ammo together has no impact on street violence. That is the topic that is being debated right now, and there is no reason to believe it would impact suicides, accidents, street violence. The only valuable argument was it would impact domestic violence. I disagree, but would admit there is at least some logic to that statement. Disagree because the time it takes to get to a gun safe, open it, load a gun, I don;t see moving to the next room or closet adding any meaningful amount of time to impact the situation. 

Everyone knows violence is higher in broken homes and fatherless communities. No one wants to say it. Lets find ways to help single mothers, prevent teenage pregnancy to begin with that contributes to this. Reduce the cycle of poverty. All would have a bigger impact on gun violence than storing ammo in the closet next to the gun safe in a separate box.

I've said many times I'm for background checks, registration, no gunshow loopholes and many other forms. I just don't see the logic that I can't lock my ammo up in my gun safe.

Why do you posit that only women are the victims of domestic violence? Do the innocent men, children and innocent bystanders 
count or are women the only victims of domestic violence in your thought process?

I have a cousin who is a retired cop, he has investigated plenty of instances of domestic violence toward men...it does happen, the statistics are not usually very accurate, because most men are too embarrassed to file charges, and some simply say just a "misunderstanding", even though the physical evidence suggests otherwise.

Domestic violence is as good a reason as any to keep ammo and guns separate...

Add suicide to that list
And Children accidentally shooting other children 

Especially suicide.  

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

The problem with many of the laws people propose are suggest are like McGruff said, the "feel good" laws but don;t do anything. We could eliminate every assault rifle in the country, prevent every accident, eliminate 100% of the shootings resulting from a heated argument and that would just place a small dent in the data.
Laws never seem to target the root of the problem. We don't want to address gang problems are even admit a connection between family status and violence. Reporters have gotten fired for suggesting that. We want to start with what causes 1% of the problem and turn a blind eye to the 99%. We should do it the other way around.

How many thus far this year are due to "gang activity?" A "small dent" in the data is a start and worth aiming for. But maybe not.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/children-killed

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/accidental-deaths

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/teens-killed

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting?year=2019

'Murica, Woot!

Woot.
Okay, my 1% was exaggerated. None of those links were related to anything I said however. Domestic violence and accidents account for roughly 1000 gun deaths a year. So why do we focus on that and ignore the other 30,000+ ?
My comment was about storage of ammo and how it is to prevent accidents and heated debates, not sure how all those links fit in. Locking ammo up separately won't prevent any of those accidents. SO now we're down to just focusing on about 500-600 out of the 30,000+ deaths. And not that 500-600 isn't worth considering, but my point was why continue to ignore much bigger factors? You didnt address that. 
 Locking them up separately doesn't seem like it would prevent the domestic heated argument either for reasons already discussed.
Woot

Care to clarify your comment about how we don't focus on gang violence or consider the "family structure?" Who does that refer to? Source of your 1,000 number for domestic violence and accidents total?

And I wasn't commenting solely, or really at all, on your comments about separate storage of guns and ammo and folks having time to cool down. 40,000+ a year, no big deal, nothing can be done. I get where the pro-gun crowd is coming from. Nothing can be done. its a blip. Its minor. Nothing we can do will reduce the numbers, so why try. I get it.

https://everytownresearch.org/guns-domestic-violence/
In an average month, 50 American women are shot to death by intimate partners,4
50 per month = 600 a year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
puts accidental shooting at about 500.

Storing guns and ammo together has no impact on street violence. That is the topic that is being debated right now, and there is no reason to believe it would impact suicides, accidents, street violence. The only valuable argument was it would impact domestic violence. I disagree, but would admit there is at least some logic to that statement. Disagree because the time it takes to get to a gun safe, open it, load a gun, I don;t see moving to the next room or closet adding any meaningful amount of time to impact the situation. 

Everyone knows violence is higher in broken homes and fatherless communities. No one wants to say it. Lets find ways to help single mothers, prevent teenage pregnancy to begin with that contributes to this. Reduce the cycle of poverty. All would have a bigger impact on gun violence than storing ammo in the closet next to the gun safe in a separate box.

I've said many times I'm for background checks, registration, no gunshow loopholes and many other forms. I just don't see the logic that I can't lock my ammo up in my gun safe.

Why do you posit that only women are the victims of domestic violence? Do the innocent men, children and innocent bystanders 
count or are women the only victims of domestic violence in your thought process?

You're right, it isn't just women. But when given the scenario that keeping guns and ammo separate is to help buy time during a heated argument so the victim can flea, you don't undertsand that the overwhelming majority the woman is the victim? Lets try to have a reasonable discussion instead of pointing out every tiny flaw in anyone's statement who believes something different than you. Its much more productive. Okay, so include women and children in the domestic violence murdered by guns stat, how many do you think that adds in relation to the scenario being discussed? 5? 10? Is that a significant difference worth debating over? Is it even going to change the estimated figure of 600?

HesCalledDyer

PJPOWER said:

Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!

I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?

The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

PJPOWER

Bentleyspop said:

PJPOWER said:

Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!

With the currently elected president setting an example by acting like an immature, petulant, spoiled 5 yr old you should be okay with people not acting like an "adult".

Fair point, back to being childish /s

mace1229

HesCalledDyer said:

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

I have never jerked off to a gun

Me either.  Awesome stereotype. 

It's a figure of speech, good grief guys.  Sorry I offended you all.

I think this is a perfect example of what is wrong with the gun debate. Every gun owner on here that I've seen has stated they are for gun control.  But when they mention 1 aspect, that we don't see storing guns and ammo separately if guns are already properly stored, they is a slew of negative responses and stereotypes. I didn't see 1 serious question or comment about what could be more effective, but nearly 2 pages of putting gun owners down instead. Put your egos aside for a minute and listen and discuss. Gun owners are more than willing to compromise, but this attitude when we disagree with 1 thing is what feeds the fight against restrictions. Listen to what we all have said, but if you want zero compromise then go ahead and keep attacking gun owners. Its what prevents real change fro happening. Hoenstly, many in the anti-gun crown couldn't do a better work for the NRA if they tried.

tempo_n_groove

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!

I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?

The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.

HughFreakingDillon

tempo_n_groove said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!

I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?

The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.

but wouldn't you be ok with giving up a hobby if it saves even one life? if I could save anyone's life by giving up something I love doing, I'd do it in a nanosecond. 

PJPOWER

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!

I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?

The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.

but wouldn't you be ok with giving up a hobby if it saves even one life? if I could save anyone's life by giving up something I love doing, I'd do it in a nanosecond. 

What kinds of things do you love doing?  People die in boating accidents all the time, should boats and fishing be illegal to save “even one life”?  I mean, it’s just a hobbie...?  
I grew up similarly to tempo, but being in a farming and ranching family, firearm ownership was well beyond the confides of hobby use and were needed for everyday use (predator control, rattlesnakes, etc).  I don’t claim to know why someone in the inner city may feel the need to own one, just as I don’t expect them to know why a rancher would.  That’s why the only justification you really need is that it is your individual constitutional right to do so.  
But, back to your point, how is tempo giving up his hobbie going to save a life (assuming he does follow safety measures and I have no reason to believe otherwise)?

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!

I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?

The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.

but wouldn't you be ok with giving up a hobby if it saves even one life? if I could save anyone's life by giving up something I love doing, I'd do it in a nanosecond. 

You phrase this in a way that will make me sound like a jerk if I disagree with it...  It's the equivalent of asking someone if they still beat their wife.

I'm going to turn the tables around and ask that we all make cars that can only do 65mph because that saves lives.  No more speeding on the highway or roads, racing or motorsports for the sake of saving one life(s).

Halifax2TheMax

Meanwhile, just another “responsible” gun owner somewhere, somehow being “responsible.”

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/juvenile-charged-fatal-double-shooting-alton-new-hampshire

And, would you consider this a case of domestic violence and include the male victim in your tally?

Halifax2TheMax

And I guess these three kids don’t count in the domestic violence tally.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/sheffield-fire-murder-suicide

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

Meanwhile, just another “responsible” gun owner somewhere, somehow being “responsible.”

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/juvenile-charged-fatal-double-shooting-alton-new-hampshire

And, would you consider this a case of domestic violence and include the male victim in your tally?

Not sure when you can start reporting news on the actual millions of responsible gun owners.  I know you don't have it in you but it would be nice for once as you should also understand by now that every person you call "responsible" is not.  It just fits your rhetoric.

mcgruff10

tempo_n_groove said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJPOWER said:

Not offended here either, but not necessarily interested in giving a serious response to a condescending anger fueled hypothetical with straw men mixed in.  You may get better responses if you act like an adult...but I could be wrong.  This is the AMT after all!

I'll act how I please, so don't tell me how to. And yes, I'm anger fueled.  I'm angry that time and time again large groups of innocent children, movie-goers, church worshippers, shoppers, office workers, etc, etc, are shot up in public places and not a single fucking thing gets done except thoughts and prayers. Sue me for being a bit pissed off at gun culture in this nation.  You can't be bothered to respond to an honest question just because I'm angry but spend time responding to me anyway to tell me how I should act.  If I don't fit your "worthy of response" criteria, why respond at all?

The question remains and no one has given an answer.  Why are Americans so fascinated with guns?  Why is gun culture so ingrained in the American mind? Why is banning assault weapons so threatening to gun lovers?  And again, pretend the Constitution never existed when forming your answer. I'm not looking for automatic responses like "It's my right" or "The Constitution says" or "Heller says" or "Founding Fathers thought."  What makes people so happy and defensive about their guns?

I've been shooting since I was 9.  Shot my first AR-15 around that time.  Have always been around firearms.  Shot competitively for a while.  Took training classes.  Had a lot of fun with it.  Enjoy the history, evolution of the weapons and the sporting part of it.

Taking away what I do/did for recreation is a big deal to me when all I have ever done is be law abiding and safe with my firearms.  There are a lot of other people that have followed the same path, millions actually, and don't want to give those things up.

I"m very similar; started walking the fields around 7 or 8 with my grand father and dad.  Shot a shot gun around age 8 or 9, got my hunting license at age ten.  The rest is history.  

PJPOWER

Halifax2TheMax said:

And I guess these three kids don’t count in the domestic violence tally.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/sheffield-fire-murder-suicide

Not sure it should be in firearm stats until they find this part out:
from your link 

“The causes of death for the family members were not available as of Monday, but Harrington said the five bodies were taken to Boston for autopsies by the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner.”

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Meanwhile, just another “responsible” gun owner somewhere, somehow being “responsible.”

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/03/19/juvenile-charged-fatal-double-shooting-alton-new-hampshire

And, would you consider this a case of domestic violence and include the male victim in your tally?

Not sure when you can start reporting news on the actual millions of responsible gun owners.  I know you don't have it in you but it would be nice for once as you should also understand by now that every person you call "responsible" is not.  It just fits your rhetoric.

Feel free to post away or start a thread. Just keeping it true to the thread title.