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US military defends our freedom...

unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
in A Moving Train
With all of the talk about giving thanks for this hero or that hero when is the last time the US used the military to truly "defend us"?

We all hear the propaganda about how we speak English, can type on the internet, can walk down the street, etc. due to the valiant efforts of the United States Military. So was there a period of time where our freedom was truly threatened and the military saved it or is it an ongoing struggle of good vs evil?

I'd say most here could agree that Iraq did not pose a threat to the sovereignty of the United States, so let's break down a bunch of conflicts, let's fill in the blanks and discuss how the use of the world's largest military has saved this nation from doom.

I mentioned Iraq, how about Afghanistan?
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Comments

  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    we were in big trouble with Vietnam, but luckily we were able to preserve our freedom with bombs!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    rgambs said:

    we were in big trouble with Vietnam, but luckily we were able to preserve our freedom with bombs!

    I thought it was big trouble in little china and Kurt Russell saved the day....
    :D
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,604
    badbrains said:

    rgambs said:

    we were in big trouble with Vietnam, but luckily we were able to preserve our freedom with bombs!

    I thought it was big trouble in little china and Kurt Russell saved the day....
    :D
    No. that monster was on the back of his rig at the end/.

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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Afghanistan (the Taliban) was kind of asking for it. They openly held trainning camps for hit and run tactics to fight an asymetrical war which included training al Qaeda recruits. They had Bin Laden and refused to turn him over. They pretty much said, 'Come and get him'.. and we did.
    But, we fucked up when we focused on Iraq, which had a conventional military we had to consider.
    I truely believe that had we NOT gone into Iraq and remained focused on Afghanistan... things would have turned out better.
    ...
    Yeah... yeah.. Saddam would still be out there... but, so what? He was being contained and all he was was a trash talking buffoon with an army that was not willing to fight for him. He also kept the Shi'ites of Iran in check... that's why we had no support from the Arab nations. They knew he was a dick... but, he kept those worse dicks in Iran in check.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    edited June 2014
    How about Libya a few years ago?
    Korea?
    How about any Middle East conflict?

    Ok so we go into Afghanistan, now we cut deals with those guys.

    It really is all a scam, it's propaganda. I go back and look at all of our conflicts and aside from those against the Brits I don't see one where American freedom was at stake.

  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited June 2014
    Cosmo said:

    They had Bin Laden and refused to turn him over.

    No they didn't.


    Seriously, why do people on this forum constantly insist on making shit up?

    How difficult is it to check the facts? Is it really so fucking hard?

    And this isn't a dig at you, Cosmo. You're usually on the money. But this constant fantasizing here on the train has gotten really boring now,
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/11/01/how-bush-was-offered-bin-laden-and-blew-it/
    'Four days [after 9/11] the US State Department asked Mohabbat [who dealt with foreign relations for the Afghan mujahiddeen, where he developed extensive contacts with the US foreign policy establishment] to set up a meeting with the Taliban. Mohabbat says the Taliban were flown to Quetta in two C-130s. There they agreed to the three demands sought by the US team: 1. Immediate handover of bin Laden; 2. Extradition of foreigners in Al Qaeda who were wanted in their home countries; 3. shut-down of bin Laden’s bases and training camps. Mohabbat says the Taliban agreed to all three demands.

    A few days later [...] Mohabbat drew the ire of the Bush administration where he already had an enemy in the form of Zalmay Khalilzad, appointed on September 22 as the US special envoy to Afghanistan. After giving him a dressing down, US officials told Mohabbat the game had changed, and he should tell the Taliban the new terms: surrender or be killed. Mohabbat declined to be the bearer of this news and went off the US government payroll.

    Towards the end of that same month of October, 2001 Mohabbat was successfully negotiating with the Taliban for the release of Heather Mercer (acting in a private capacity at the request of her father) when the Taliban once again said they would hand over Osama Bin Laden unconditionally. Mohabbat tells us he relayed the offer to David Donahue, the US consulate general in Islamabad. He was told, in his words,that "the train had moved". Shortly thereafter the US bombing of Afghanistan began.'
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

    Taliban demand evidence of Bin Laden's guilt

    Staff and agencies
    guardian.co.uk,
    Sunday 14 October 2001

    President George Bush rejected as "non-negotiable" an offer by the Taliban to discuss turning over Osama bin Laden if the United States ended the bombing in Afghanistan.

    Returning to the White House after a weekend at Camp David, the president said the bombing would not stop, unless the ruling Taliban "turn over, turn his cohorts over, turn any hostages they hold over." He added, "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty". In Jalalabad, deputy prime minister Haji Abdul Kabir - the third most powerful figure in the ruling Taliban regime - told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US, but added: "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country".

    The Taliban would be ready to discuss handing over Osama bin Laden to a neutral country if the US halted the bombing of Afghanistan, a senior Taliban official said today.

    Afghanistan's deputy prime minister, Haji Abdul Kabir, told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US.

    "If the Taliban is given evidence that Osama bin Laden is involved" and the bombing campaign stopped, "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country", Mr Kabir added.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty" - George W. Bush

    Yep, that sure doesn't sound like a bully in a children's playground. Fuck the rule of law! We say he's guilty, therefore he is. Welcome to the 21st Century!
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,049
    "Instead of, ah, you know, marching down the streets with guns and killing and war and all that we should, um, you know- march down the streets with electric guitars. Yeah."
    -Jimi Hendrix
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    the sad thing about afghanistan is we replaced the taliban with corrupt drug lords who, in many ways, treat the afghani people worse than the taliban ever did.

    Also, Unsung, go back and look at the American Revolution through the eyes of a true historian like Howard Zinn and you will see it was just another rich man's war. We wrap it in patriotic language and it looks good but the reality is ugly. Is taxation really a good reason to shed blood???
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    edited June 2014
    The fact of the matter is that the US troops don't defend our freedom, or at least haven't for quite some time. I'll concede that their presence may deter attacks however IMO an attack on some base where we don't belong or some $1B embassy in Iraq isn't an attack on our freedom.

    IF they were to truly defend our freedom and keep liberty intact as their primary goal there is only one place they should go. This place holds the most vile people on the planet, people that cause endless destruction, endless hate, endless spending, endless suffering. They would eradicate those that are here.



    image

    These people are the biggest threat to our way of life, not some brown skinned person sitting in a cave across the world.

    Of course, in another thread I mentioned that I prefer no harm come to no man, so a simple removal and exile in Somalia will suffice.

  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,049
    I don't agree that that place holds the most vile people on this planet. Most of the most vile people on this planet sit behind the desk of some (not all) CEO's desks.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    I think the Afghan war was necessary to "defend our freedom." We were attacked. But before that, world war 2 was the last trhe war the United states needed to be in to defend our freedoms.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,049
    I don't have the references off had but I've read some well thought out arguments that state that not even WWII was fought to defend our freedom but rather to increase our wealth and power. I wonder if anyone here is willing to discuss that possibility?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • EarlWelshEarlWelsh Posts: 1,118
    brianlux said:

    I don't have the references off had but I've read some well thought out arguments that state that not even WWII was fought to defend our freedom but rather to increase our wealth and power. I wonder if anyone here is willing to discuss that possibility?

    I'm sure someone is willing to discuss, so long as that jlew dude doesn't come back.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,049
    Who?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,049
    Here's one with some thought provoking arguments:

    http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-2/ww2.htm
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    We provoked Japan by cutting the oil supply, so yeah it was another war over $.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    brianlux said:

    I don't agree that that place holds the most vile people on this planet. Most of the most vile people on this planet sit behind the desk of some (not all) CEO's desks.


    And they pull the strings of who?

    The puppet who swore the Oath is just as guilty as his master, and probably more so because he casts the vote.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,049
    unsung said:

    brianlux said:

    I don't agree that that place holds the most vile people on this planet. Most of the most vile people on this planet sit behind the desk of some (not all) CEO's desks.


    And they pull the strings of who?

    The puppet who swore the Oath is just as guilty as his master, and probably more so because he casts the vote.
    Using your logic, Unsung, are we not the most vile people on this planet? Who lets this all happen? Who is (or is it "whom are"? damn English :-)) ) biggest in numbers? And even assuming you are right, are the leaders of any one country the most vile? If North Korea were big enough to be a world power would some of their leaders not be just as vile? I just don't think your statement makes it all that simple.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    Almost every war the US has been involved in was about money or land. I agree that WWII was influenced by money. But I think most can agree that having Hitler ruling most of Europe would not have been in the best interest of the US and the rest of the world.
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    Hitler had funding/support from American (linked) Interests/industry.

    Some of the same systems (so to speak) that supported Hitler and Nazi Germany were the same systems that were supporting the USA.



  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    If they were defending our freedom, they would be attacking our own government. It takes away far more of my freedom than foreign countries do.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • BHealyBHealy Posts: 466
    unsung said:

    How about Libya a few years ago?
    Korea?
    How about any Middle East conflict?

    Ok so we go into Afghanistan, now we cut deals with those guys.

    It really is all a scam, it's propaganda. I go back and look at all of our conflicts and aside from those against the Brits I don't see one where American freedom was at stake.

    World War II?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Hitler was a threat to the world, but we had not been attacked. For an opposing view to what is taught in public schools look into what was mentioned above and how we essentially left Japan with no choice. We get attacked, public backs the war, companies profit.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    know1 said:

    If they were defending our freedom, they would be attacking our own government. It takes away far more of my freedom than foreign countries do.

    Precisely my point.

  • SmellymanSmellyman Posts: 4,524
    the us military is the strongest propaganda in the US. Don't talk bad about them or the troops, fighting for our freedom, be all you can be, war is bad, but have to support it to support the troops, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis die, but support the troops.

    military fly over at sporting events, god bless America at sporting events, of course the national anthem at sporting events, pledge of allegiance for elementary students.

    the brainwashing starts early and often.

    we are good....others are evil, if we go to war and thousands die, oh well, price of doing business.

    but by god if US soldiers die while killing said thousands, we better kill a thousand more. vengeance will be ours.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    It is exactly that.

    These people that say to support the troops make me fucking laugh. They are the same people that vote for politicians like Obama and Romney. If they supported the troops they'd vote for someone that wants to bring them all home, not sit on some line for fifty years.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    To all the haters out there ...

    image

    :P
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