Man shoots teen burglars in basement (MN) - now on trial

hedonist

That last part, absolutely.

"Sorry about that"? Makes my stomach turn.

Cosmo

Jason P said:

A sound home defense strategy is a shotgun with the first round being rock salt. If a perpertrater doesn't get the message after the first round, then go Dirty Harry on them.
It can prevent a horrible mistake and still offer fine home protection.

...
Late one night, My neighbor scared off someone who was crouched down between his apartment and the landlord's parked car. All it took was the sound of a shotgun shell being chambered and him yelling, "Get the hell otut of here you mother fucker!!"
...
The next day, we found out he the neighbor down the street had came home an caught a teenager with this teenaged daughter in her bedroom. The kid jumped out of the window with his pants in his hand and it was probably him (the kid) hiding in the dark next to that parked car, trying to put his pants back on.
...
Moral of the story: Yeah, the distinct, **CLICK-CHUCK** sound of arming a 12 guage Remington is enough to scare the living shit out of most anyone. We all know that sound and we alll know not to fuck with it.

Cosmo

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Some of my questions have been answered with the following dialogue introduced in court (from audio clips taken from the house):

“Nick,” said the voice before another gunshot is fired and Kifer is heard tumbling down the stairs.

“Oh, sorry about that,” Smith says.

“Oh my God!” the teen screams.

“You’re dying,” Smith tells her as more gunfire erupts. “B---h.”

The sound of another body getting dragged can be heard in the crystal-clear audio clip before Smith speaks to his victim again.

“B---h,” he says, before firing another round.


This is disturbing news and not as complicated as I had initially thought. While I typically feel very little for hardened criminals who reap what they sow... I am saddened by the cold, callous actions of this man who needed to demonstrate even the most remote level of decency for two kids who, in reality, were more mischievous than criminally inclined.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/jury-listens-chilling-audio-minnesota-man-fatally-shooting-teen-intruders-article-1.1765846

In all aspects of life, the adults are typically the ones that demonstrate patience and understanding for our youth sector given we have the benefit of experience to draw from- treatment all adults have had the benefit of enjoying as youths. We anticipate kids making mistakes and we help them grow from these mistakes. There was no opportunity for these kids to learn from this though: in their foolishness, they crossed paths with a man very prepared for them.

While I can still understand Smith shooting the young man. I cannot understand shooting the young girl- especially degrading her, gloating over his accomplishment, and then 'finishing her off'.

...
That was the main issue for me.. NOT that he had shot 2 intruders in his home... something I support. It was his cold-blooded execution of them.

JonnyPistachio

I am horrified by the majority of the comments following that nydailnews article. wtf?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JonnyPistachio said:

I am horrified by the majority of the comments following that nydailnews article. wtf?

Do you mean in this thread or in the link?

josevolution

Damn he killed the chick after she was already injured , i hope this old bag of bones dies in Jail what a creep

go pre

i don't hunt, but isn't what this man did basically the same thing deer hunters do? scout and find a spot where deer are known to appear, then just sit and wait? i don't at all condone what these kids did, but this man wasn't protecting himself, he was hunting.

Godfather.

dead men tell no tales, if he had not killed them it would be their word aginst his and they could have made up some bullshit about being in the wrong house or what ever, this way his story is legit as the evidence, feared for his life during another break in.........


Godfather.

Godfather.

go pre said:

i don't hunt, but isn't what this man did basically the same thing deer hunters do? scout and find a spot where deer are known to appear, then just sit and wait? i don't at all condone what these kids did, but this man wasn't protecting himself, he was hunting.

hunting in his own house ? after mulitpul break in's ? you'd have hard time proving that in court.

Godfather.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Godfather. said:

dead men tell no tales, if he had not killed them it would be their word aginst his and they could have made up some bullshit about being in the wrong house or what ever, this way his story is legit as the evidence, feared for his life during another break in.........


Godfather.

His story as is might be more damning.

In my eye he's innocent for what he did to the young man, but he's guilty for allowing his bloodlust to get the better of him when he dealt with the young woman.

His audio tapes tell a story that is far worse than any the two could have made up if afforded life.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Smith dragged Kifer's body into the workshop and laid it on top of Brady's, Wartner said. Smith told investigators he thought he heard Kifer gasping, so he placed his revolver under her chin and fired what he told police was a "good clean finishing shot to the head," the assistant prosecutor said.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Godfather. said:

go pre said:

i don't hunt, but isn't what this man did basically the same thing deer hunters do? scout and find a spot where deer are known to appear, then just sit and wait? i don't at all condone what these kids did, but this man wasn't protecting himself, he was hunting.

hunting in his own house ? after mulitpul break in's ? you'd have hard time proving that in court.

Godfather.

I agree. Although I get the deer stand analogy, this guy wasn't exactly 'lying in wait' inside his own home considering he had been reduced to wearing a sidearm and fearing another break in for some time prior to that evening.

I believe the guy was fearful for another break in, prepared for one, and encountered one. I saw pictures of his home and it was isolated- not offering the piece of mind that having good neighbours sometimes brings.

We shouldn't discount the type of stress that likely played with the guy's mind. I would think the emotions generated when forced to deal with the previous break ins, the mounting tension as he braced for another, and the stress of the moment placed this guy in a mindset that is hard to define or understand from our sofas.

Don't get me wrong, he clearly needed to check himself before murdering the young woman. I'm just saying the old guy was pushed into a corner and we don't like how he responded. Maybe he shouldn't have been pushed there?

mookeywrench

The kids did breaking and entering. He murdered two people after they were no longer a threat.

Let him spend 50 years in prison for the murders, less 4 years for the breaking and entering crimes against him.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mookeywrench said:

The kids did breaking and entering. He murdered two people after they were no longer a threat.

Let him spend 50 years in prison for the murders, less 4 years for the breaking and entering crimes against him.

The kids were 'stopped' at breaking and entering. I'm not saying I believe they had murder in their minds, but I can recall multiple home invasions that have not gone very well for the homeowner. Smith likely could recall many of these same ones as he braced for whatever came down the stairs at him. It must have been extremely frightening having people break into your home and advance towards you not knowing exactly what they had in mind.

At the risk of repeating myself, as sad as it might be, I can understand his actions towards the young man: he was weaker and unwilling to take any additional risks- especially knowing there was another person in the house. With the young man out of the equation and the girl shot, injured, and incapacitated... this is where things fell down dramatically. He became callous and acted without a shred of decency- what seems to be enthusiastically murdering her. It's really tough to defend him at this part of the incident.

A truly horrible story.

Halifax2TheMax

If he had gone out an bought a large dog or picked one up at the pound, we wouldn't be commenting on this story.

Peace.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Halifax2TheMax said:

If he had gone out an bought a large dog or picked one up at the pound, we wouldn't be commenting on this story.

Peace.

If the kids hadn't broken into his home we wouldn't be talking about it either.

mookeywrench

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

At the risk of repeating myself, as sad as it might be, I can understand his actions towards the young man: he was weaker and unwilling to take any additional risks- especially knowing there was another person in the house. With the young man out of the equation and the girl shot, injured, and incapacitated... this is where things fell down dramatically. He became callous and acted without a shred of decency- what seems to be enthusiastically murdering her. It's really tough to defend him at this part of the incident.

A truly horrible story.

Still see it as two counts of murder. He shot the guy twice to the point where he was incapacitated, lying on the ground, and doing nothing but gasping for air. There's your self-defense.

The third shot and a proclamation to himself of "I want him dead". There's your murder.

And the girl's death was played out nearly the same except furthered execution style.

Halifax2TheMax

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

If he had gone out an bought a large dog or picked one up at the pound, we wouldn't be commenting on this story.

Peace.

If the kids hadn't broken into his home we wouldn't be talking about it either.

True enough.

Peace.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mookeywrench said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

At the risk of repeating myself, as sad as it might be, I can understand his actions towards the young man: he was weaker and unwilling to take any additional risks- especially knowing there was another person in the house. With the young man out of the equation and the girl shot, injured, and incapacitated... this is where things fell down dramatically. He became callous and acted without a shred of decency- what seems to be enthusiastically murdering her. It's really tough to defend him at this part of the incident.

A truly horrible story.

Still see it as two counts of murder. He shot the guy twice to the point where he was incapacitated, lying on the ground, and doing nothing but gasping for air. There's your self-defense.

The third shot and a proclamation to himself of "I want him dead". There's your murder.

And the girl's death was played out nearly the same except furthered execution style.

The young man was shot three times and killed- to which Smith said aloud, "You're dead" (according to the audio tapes). As much as this might have been a simple proclamation of the reality... or the voice of triumph... this could have been the self talk of a man navigating his way through a defensive plan of action. Brady may very well have been incapacitated from our perspective, but mired in the moment and knowing there was still another intruder somewhere in his house, I would be inclined to afford Smith the benefit of the doubt on the first killing.

Are we expecting that Smith should simply have left Brady shot and injured to deal with the other intruder? If so, was it remotely possible that Brady could have regained his strength enough to become a renewed threat? His guns were low powered weapons (.22 calibre revolver) that do not inflict the damage of higher powered guns.

Are we expecting that Smith had tied Brady up before dealing with the second intruder? If so, was it remotely possible that by tending to such a task, the second intruder could gain the upper hand and render his tendering of mercy a foolish mistake?

The girl was executed in callous fashion and despite the fact she was participating in a home invasion. You will not get an argument from me that Smith was way out of bounds after his first shot. In an earlier post, I had suggested that warning the girl likely would have had her running from the place- meaning she didn't have to get shot even once; however, I wasn't there in the moment and I speak from the safety of my couch without adrenaline and fear running through my body.

Of course, any semblance of decency departed Smith when he dealt with Kifer. It is at this point in the tragedy where you will not get an argument from me regarding his conduct.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Halifax2TheMax said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

If he had gone out an bought a large dog or picked one up at the pound, we wouldn't be commenting on this story.

Peace.

If the kids hadn't broken into his home we wouldn't be talking about it either.

True enough.

Peace.

Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to defend this guy as much as I am trying to discuss the incident. To me, this is a case of an incident spiralling out of control where Smith began acting well within his rights as a victim, until crossing a line and becoming a criminal. Exactly where and when he did that is a big part of what this thread is about.

And peace to you!