Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.
No, it won't happen.
But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.
But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.
In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).
While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.
I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.
I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves? Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.
So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.
Maybe, but that's the name of the game. It's not like they are LOSING money from this. They just aren't ripping people off in order to line their own pockets. Retailers need to protect their industry. They should be doing what's in their best interests in the long run, not participating in money grabs that damage their industry and do a disservice to their customers. Retailers need to be held to certain standards. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't be in the business. By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.
No, it won't happen.
But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.
But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.
In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).
While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.
I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.
I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves? Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.
So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.
Maybe, but that's the name of the game. It's not like they are LOSING money from this. They just aren't ripping people off in order to line their own pockets. Retailers need to protect their industry. They should be doing what's in their best interests in the long run, not participating in money grabs that damage their industry and do a disservice to their customers. Retailers need to be held to certain standards. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't be in the business. By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
I think there is a big difference between a billion dollar company like ticketmaster and a local record store that is struggling to keep the doors open.
Also, retail prices are SUGGESTED. Local shops can sell items for whatever price they choose,
Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.
No, it won't happen.
But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.
But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.
In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).
While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.
I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.
I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves? Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.
So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.
Maybe, but that's the name of the game. It's not like they are LOSING money from this. They just aren't ripping people off in order to line their own pockets. Retailers need to protect their industry. They should be doing what's in their best interests in the long run, not participating in money grabs that damage their industry and do a disservice to their customers. Retailers need to be held to certain standards. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't be in the business. By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
I think there is a big difference between a billion dollar company like ticketmaster and a local record store that is struggling to keep the doors open.
Also, retail prices are SUGGESTED. Local shops can sell items for whatever price they choose,
Yeah, there is a difference, but I think the principle is the same. And again, if small business owners do this shit, they are doing a disservice to themselves in the long run. If they flips shit on ebay, less and less people will come into their store, since they don't have anything good available in-store, and their business will eventually fail. All just for a fast buck in the moment. Retailers who do this are very short-sighted.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.
No, it won't happen.
But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.
But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.
In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).
While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.
I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.
I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves? Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.
So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.
Maybe, but that's the name of the game. It's not like they are LOSING money from this. They just aren't ripping people off in order to line their own pockets. Retailers need to protect their industry. They should be doing what's in their best interests in the long run, not participating in money grabs that damage their industry and do a disservice to their customers. Retailers need to be held to certain standards. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't be in the business. By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
I think there is a big difference between a billion dollar company like ticketmaster and a local record store that is struggling to keep the doors open.
Also, retail prices are SUGGESTED. Local shops can sell items for whatever price they choose,
Yeah, there is a difference, but I think the principle is the same. And again, if small business owners do this shit, they are doing a disservice to themselves in the long run. If they flips shit on ebay, less and less people will come into their store, since they don't have anything good available in-store, and their business will eventually fail. All just for a fast buck in the moment. Retailers who do this are very short-sighted.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and I am not a fan of retailers increasing prices on RSD items and I don't think they should ever take their limited items to ebay. But if someone is going to capture the excess profit from a rare RSD release, I would rather have it be the retailers and not the flippers.
Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.
No, it won't happen.
But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.
But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.
In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).
While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.
I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.
I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves? Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.
So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.
Maybe, but that's the name of the game. It's not like they are LOSING money from this. They just aren't ripping people off in order to line their own pockets. Retailers need to protect their industry. They should be doing what's in their best interests in the long run, not participating in money grabs that damage their industry and do a disservice to their customers. Retailers need to be held to certain standards. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't be in the business. By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
I think there is a big difference between a billion dollar company like ticketmaster and a local record store that is struggling to keep the doors open.
Also, retail prices are SUGGESTED. Local shops can sell items for whatever price they choose,
Yeah, there is a difference, but I think the principle is the same. And again, if small business owners do this shit, they are doing a disservice to themselves in the long run. If they flips shit on ebay, less and less people will come into their store, since they don't have anything good available in-store, and their business will eventually fail. All just for a fast buck in the moment. Retailers who do this are very short-sighted.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and I am not a fan of retailers increasing prices on RSD items and I don't think they should ever take their limited items to ebay. But if someone is going to capture the excess profit from a rare RSD release, I would rather have it be the retailers and not the flippers.
Really? Fair enough. Not me. I think retailers who do this are way scummier than individuals who do it for the reasons I already outlined. I'd way prefer that random private individuals make profit here, since that doesn't cause record stores to go out of business.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.
No, it won't happen.
But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.
But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.
In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).
While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.
I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.
I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves? Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.
So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.
Maybe, but that's the name of the game. It's not like they are LOSING money from this. They just aren't ripping people off in order to line their own pockets. Retailers need to protect their industry. They should be doing what's in their best interests in the long run, not participating in money grabs that damage their industry and do a disservice to their customers. Retailers need to be held to certain standards. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't be in the business. By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
I think there is a big difference between a billion dollar company like ticketmaster and a local record store that is struggling to keep the doors open.
Also, retail prices are SUGGESTED. Local shops can sell items for whatever price they choose,
Yeah, there is a difference, but I think the principle is the same. And again, if small business owners do this shit, they are doing a disservice to themselves in the long run. If they flips shit on ebay, less and less people will come into their store, since they don't have anything good available in-store, and their business will eventually fail. All just for a fast buck in the moment. Retailers who do this are very short-sighted.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and I am not a fan of retailers increasing prices on RSD items and I don't think they should ever take their limited items to ebay. But if someone is going to capture the excess profit from a rare RSD release, I would rather have it be the retailers and not the flippers.
Really? Fair enough. Not me. I think retailers who do this are way scummier than individuals who do it for the reasons I already outlined. I'd way prefer that random private individuals make profit here, since that doesn't cause record stores to go out of business.
So it wouldn't piss you off if you were the third person in line on RSD and the two people in front of you bought all of the limited items to sell on ebay for 2 or 3 times the price? I have seen people list RSD items on ebay outside the record shop using their phones 5 minutes after the bought the vinyl.
Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.
No, it won't happen.
But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.
But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.
In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).
While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.
I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.
I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves? Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.
So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.
Maybe, but that's the name of the game. It's not like they are LOSING money from this. They just aren't ripping people off in order to line their own pockets. Retailers need to protect their industry. They should be doing what's in their best interests in the long run, not participating in money grabs that damage their industry and do a disservice to their customers. Retailers need to be held to certain standards. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't be in the business. By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
I think there is a big difference between a billion dollar company like ticketmaster and a local record store that is struggling to keep the doors open.
Also, retail prices are SUGGESTED. Local shops can sell items for whatever price they choose,
Yeah, there is a difference, but I think the principle is the same. And again, if small business owners do this shit, they are doing a disservice to themselves in the long run. If they flips shit on ebay, less and less people will come into their store, since they don't have anything good available in-store, and their business will eventually fail. All just for a fast buck in the moment. Retailers who do this are very short-sighted.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and I am not a fan of retailers increasing prices on RSD items and I don't think they should ever take their limited items to ebay. But if someone is going to capture the excess profit from a rare RSD release, I would rather have it be the retailers and not the flippers.
Really? Fair enough. Not me. I think retailers who do this are way scummier than individuals who do it for the reasons I already outlined. I'd way prefer that random private individuals make profit here, since that doesn't cause record stores to go out of business.
So it wouldn't piss you off if you were the third person in line on RSD and the two people in front of you bought all of the limited items to sell on ebay for 2 or 3 times the price? I have seen people list RSD items on ebay outside the record shop using their phones 5 minutes after the bought the vinyl.
Sure, but it would piss me off a LOT more if the owner of the store I was lining up in front of and offering my business to did it before the store even opened!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.
No, it won't happen.
But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.
But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.
In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).
While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.
I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.
I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves? Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.
So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.
Maybe, but that's the name of the game. It's not like they are LOSING money from this. They just aren't ripping people off in order to line their own pockets. Retailers need to protect their industry. They should be doing what's in their best interests in the long run, not participating in money grabs that damage their industry and do a disservice to their customers. Retailers need to be held to certain standards. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't be in the business. By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
I think there is a big difference between a billion dollar company like ticketmaster and a local record store that is struggling to keep the doors open.
Also, retail prices are SUGGESTED. Local shops can sell items for whatever price they choose,
Yeah, there is a difference, but I think the principle is the same. And again, if small business owners do this shit, they are doing a disservice to themselves in the long run. If they flips shit on ebay, less and less people will come into their store, since they don't have anything good available in-store, and their business will eventually fail. All just for a fast buck in the moment. Retailers who do this are very short-sighted.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and I am not a fan of retailers increasing prices on RSD items and I don't think they should ever take their limited items to ebay. But if someone is going to capture the excess profit from a rare RSD release, I would rather have it be the retailers and not the flippers.
Really? Fair enough. Not me. I think retailers who do this are way scummier than individuals who do it for the reasons I already outlined. I'd way prefer that random private individuals make profit here, since that doesn't cause record stores to go out of business.
So it wouldn't piss you off if you were the third person in line on RSD and the two people in front of you bought all of the limited items to sell on ebay for 2 or 3 times the price? I have seen people list RSD items on ebay outside the record shop using their phones 5 minutes after the bought the vinyl.
Sure, but it would piss me off a LOT more if the owner of the store I was lining up in front of and offering my business to did it before the store even opened!
Again, I am NOT supporting record store owners who list items on ebay before/during/after RSD. I just think they should be thinking about increasing their prices IN STORE a bit to capture some of the profit that flippers are taking.
I think we may need agree to disagree. We are getting close to the record for most quotes within quotes on a thread.
Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.
No, it won't happen.
But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.
But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.
In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).
While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.
I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.
I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves? Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.
So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.
Maybe, but that's the name of the game. It's not like they are LOSING money from this. They just aren't ripping people off in order to line their own pockets. Retailers need to protect their industry. They should be doing what's in their best interests in the long run, not participating in money grabs that damage their industry and do a disservice to their customers. Retailers need to be held to certain standards. If they don't like it, then they shouldn't be in the business. By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
I think there is a big difference between a billion dollar company like ticketmaster and a local record store that is struggling to keep the doors open.
Also, retail prices are SUGGESTED. Local shops can sell items for whatever price they choose,
Yeah, there is a difference, but I think the principle is the same. And again, if small business owners do this shit, they are doing a disservice to themselves in the long run. If they flips shit on ebay, less and less people will come into their store, since they don't have anything good available in-store, and their business will eventually fail. All just for a fast buck in the moment. Retailers who do this are very short-sighted.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you and I am not a fan of retailers increasing prices on RSD items and I don't think they should ever take their limited items to ebay. But if someone is going to capture the excess profit from a rare RSD release, I would rather have it be the retailers and not the flippers.
Really? Fair enough. Not me. I think retailers who do this are way scummier than individuals who do it for the reasons I already outlined. I'd way prefer that random private individuals make profit here, since that doesn't cause record stores to go out of business.
So it wouldn't piss you off if you were the third person in line on RSD and the two people in front of you bought all of the limited items to sell on ebay for 2 or 3 times the price? I have seen people list RSD items on ebay outside the record shop using their phones 5 minutes after the bought the vinyl.
Sure, but it would piss me off a LOT more if the owner of the store I was lining up in front of and offering my business to did it before the store even opened!
Again, I am NOT supporting record store owners who list items on ebay before/during/after RSD. I just think they should be thinking about increasing their prices IN STORE a bit to capture some of the profit that flippers are taking.
I think we may need agree to disagree. We are getting close to the record for most quotes within quotes on a thread.
Lol. I totally understand that you're not supporting owners doing that. But yeah, we do have to just agree that we disagree about who is the bigger scumbag.
I really love that we're not limited to 3 quotes within a post now though!!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Really interesting discussion and I can see both sides of it, but I think I agree with PJ-Cubs that if one party has to profit, I'd rather the store owner profit because they are providing a service, rather than the anonymous flipper.
Good points. Thanks for keeping it civilized (sadly, that has to be noted on a forum).
Completely Disagree with his decision, but to each his own. Maybe he should reach out to the organizers and ask them to only sell one item per customer. Think that would be more productive and helpful.
A lot of the flippers are the record stores themselves. Can't blame.
Another idea would be to do what Cake has done. Release a portion at RSD (or whenever they decide to) with an added note more will be available in the near future through their website or in stores again. Prices wouldn't jump right off the bat as bad as people would know more is coming. Cake was going for more than $400 on ebay on RSD. Since the announcement was made it went down now to less than $300. I only imagine it is still that high with people not knowing more are coming and a second chance is available. Same with Coke 10 if it was done that way. Now after the second sale prices will probably sky rocket again but at least it will slow down the flippers from making max profit.
Tom Brady & Donald Trump, BFF's Fuckus rules all Rob Seattle
I don't think you will ever stop flipping no matter what system they use, as long as there is a high demand for the low number limited releases there will be flippers. They are scum but what can you do?? I bought the ed ved lbc from a store that charged $35 for a $6 record.....same guy charged $300 for the phish boxset of the same year.....I'll never give him another dime of my money! Just like many! I wouldn't mind the record store owners a lil profit but no way would I go for eBay prices!
Dont know what the answer is but this year I opted out of RSD. After 6 years I had enough. Overpriced, and many pointless reissues and imo not a very enjoyable way to buy records. I was interested in 4 items and managed to buy 3 before the day for very close to what honourable record shops would be selling them for. I went into my local shop later in the day and the few titles they had left were way overpriced. £15 for a 7inch !!! I find black friday much better, more sensible prices and you can order in what you want.
Why is everyone arguing about Paul Weller? He should be happy that 500 people bought his record...
Just made me shoot soda out my nose, onto my phone! FT- very sticky samsung galaxy 4 ISO- Paul Weller's rsd release. (Will consider combo trade if belly button lint or magic the gathering cards are involved)
I always have a great time on RSD. Usually meet great people in line, shoot the shit, and grab a few records. Don't ever get everything I want but oh well.
I actually thinks it's funny how much efforts the resellers have to put in to make a few bucks. After waiting in line for hours, braving the crowds, eBay fees, PayPal fees, etc they can't be coming away with that much.
I saw plenty of people walking out of my record store with smiles on their faces. Not everything goes to flippers
PJ: 2003 Mansfield: July 2 2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29 2005 Montreal: Sept 15 2006 Boston: May 24 & 25 2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28, 2010 Boston: May 17 2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25, 2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7
RSD/weller's assertion that only 350 copies of his single were printed, based on my having seen 12 in rochester, is horseshit. claim it's limited when it isn't, so people who wouldn't have otherwise bought it, will. he's encouraging flipping, no matter what his press release says. same as vedder only printing "1500" love boat captain singles, then magically still having an endless supply to sell on the next 4 tours.
"We share Paul Weller's frustration at evidence that 'Brand New Toy' has been offered for sale on eBay, and we are disappointed that despite our best efforts to drive out the touts, once again some people are seeking to exploit the goodwill of artists and labels by selling RSD exclusives at vastly-inflated prices on eBay," the post reads.
"At just 500 copies Paul Weller's 'Brand New Toy' was one of the most limited editions available on RSD and so some re-selling was expected. However, thanks to the measures we have taken on re-sales, overall the number of complaints about unauthorised sales this year is well down on previous years, though we continue to monitor eBay on an hour-by-hour basis.??We clearly cannot control the activities of members of the public, but the Record Store Day Code of Conduct makes it clear that any store found to be complicit in unauthorised sales on eBay faces being banned from future events.
Record Store Day would not exist without the support and commitment of artists and labels and we take our responsibility to them very seriously."
I think about the analogy of baseball card business all the time. I was quite young but i remmeber to this day when everyone was climbing over each other to get Dwight Gooden and Clemens rookie cards for hundreds of dollars, now they are basically worthless.
I older card delaer once told me "who is going to buy them" and i always remember that one.
Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.
"thru extensive negotiations we managed to get the curfew moved back..... we still don't have any time to fu&k around...."
LA II 06, SB 06, SF III 06, Kokua 07 Ed and Jack, Grant Park 07, EV Berk1 & LA 1 (nice job 10c), 08 DC, MSG1 &2, VH1 rocks, EV Bos II, EV NYC I & II, Milwaukee, EV Maui, EV Hono I & II, Chicago 09 I & II, LA 09 I & II & IV, SD 09 (my girlfriend hit the lottery, best concert of my life 10C rocks)KC 2010, STL 2010, Hartford. Boston, and MSG I & II "who goes around skinning cats anyway", PJ 20 2011 , Portland, Spokane, Seattle LA 2013, Home Shows + Missoula (fatal 👌)
I am not a fan of all this flipping at high cost by either the seller or fans but that happens with collectible limited edition stuff. See the Coke Ten as an example.
I am also not a fan of the record store selling these limited items at a mega profit. That is not what RSD is all about.
I did a little research on Ebay of the one RSD item I wanted the most, which was the sales of the R.E.M. Unplugged.
My store didn't get any and I remember getting nauseous while waiting in line for other stuff at the cost this album was demanding on Ebay. Thanks to an honest 10c member, I was able to get one at the regular cost and it's on its way.
What needs to happen is for record companies to audit the stores on Ebay that are getting these 5-9 copies of a product and are selling them for an astronomical amount of money and blackball them. It won't happen but it would be nice.
Here is my research on the R.E.M. Ebay sales for the top 4 sellers.
R.E.M Unplugged LP Ebay Sales
iriomote11 9 sold Average sell price $228.32
upperstateacquisitions 6 sold Average sell price $255.79
shoeskate05 6 sold Average sell price $264.99
tracksofthepast 5 sold Average sell price $230.80
Pearl Jam - ST. PETERSBURG, FL 3-29-94 / WEST PALM BEACH, FL 9-22-98 / TAMPA, FL 8-12-00 / CHARLOTTE, NC 10/30/13 / ST. LOUIS, MO 10-03-2014 / TAMPA, FL 4-11-16 / JACKSONVILLE, FL 4-13-16
Eddie Vedder - JACKSONVILLE, FL 11/24/12 / JACKSONVILLE, FL 11/25/12 / ORLANDO, FL 11-28-12
Reported to RSD folk when he posted a photo of 7 physical copies in their possession already selling on Thursday evening. Shipping from Hungary no less.
Comments
By your thinking, Ticketmaster is also perfectly justified in scalping their own tickets at 10 times the normal amount, no questions asked, because they covet the scalpers' earnings. Businesses need to respect the industry in which they participate as legitimate retailers.
Also, retail prices are SUGGESTED. Local shops can sell items for whatever price they choose,
But if someone is going to capture the excess profit from a rare RSD release, I would rather have it be the retailers and not the flippers.
I have seen people list RSD items on ebay outside the record shop using their phones 5 minutes after the bought the vinyl.
I think we may need agree to disagree. We are getting close to the record for most quotes within quotes on a thread.
I really love that we're not limited to 3 quotes within a post now though!!
Good points. Thanks for keeping it civilized (sadly, that has to be noted on a forum).
Posters for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/117469/posters-for-sale
T-Shirts for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/149289/pj-t-shirt-trade-or-sale
A lot of the flippers are the record stores themselves. Can't blame.
Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
Of course, that isn't really the point.
I bought the ed ved lbc from a store that charged $35 for a $6 record.....same guy charged $300 for the phish boxset of the same year.....I'll never give him another dime of my money! Just like many! I wouldn't mind the record store owners a lil profit but no way would I go for eBay prices!
I actually thinks it's funny how much efforts the resellers have to put in to make a few bucks. After waiting in line for hours, braving the crowds, eBay fees, PayPal fees, etc they can't be coming away with that much.
I saw plenty of people walking out of my record store with smiles on their faces. Not everything goes to flippers
2003 Mansfield: July 2
2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29
2005 Montreal: Sept 15
2006 Boston: May 24 & 25
2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28,
2010 Boston: May 17
2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25,
2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7
EV Solo: Boston 8/2/08, Boston 6/16/11
"We share Paul Weller's frustration at evidence that 'Brand New Toy' has been offered for sale on eBay, and we are disappointed that despite our best efforts to drive out the touts, once again some people are seeking to exploit the goodwill of artists and labels by selling RSD exclusives at vastly-inflated prices on eBay," the post reads.
"At just 500 copies Paul Weller's 'Brand New Toy' was one of the most limited editions available on RSD and so some re-selling was expected. However, thanks to the measures we have taken on re-sales, overall the number of complaints about unauthorised sales this year is well down on previous years, though we continue to monitor eBay on an hour-by-hour basis.??We clearly cannot control the activities of members of the public, but the Record Store Day Code of Conduct makes it clear that any store found to be complicit in unauthorised sales on eBay faces being banned from future events.
Record Store Day would not exist without the support and commitment of artists and labels and we take our responsibility to them very seriously."
Posters for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/117469/posters-for-sale
T-Shirts for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/149289/pj-t-shirt-trade-or-sale
I older card delaer once told me "who is going to buy them" and i always remember that one.
LA II 06, SB 06, SF III 06, Kokua 07 Ed and Jack, Grant Park 07, EV Berk1 & LA 1 (nice job 10c), 08 DC, MSG1 &2, VH1 rocks, EV Bos II, EV NYC I & II, Milwaukee, EV Maui, EV Hono I & II, Chicago 09 I & II, LA 09 I & II & IV, SD 09 (my girlfriend hit the lottery, best concert of my life 10C rocks)KC 2010, STL 2010, Hartford. Boston, and MSG I & II "who goes around skinning cats anyway", PJ 20 2011 , Portland, Spokane, Seattle LA 2013, Home Shows + Missoula (fatal 👌)
I am also not a fan of the record store selling these limited items at a mega profit. That is not what RSD is all about.
I did a little research on Ebay of the one RSD item I wanted the most, which was the sales of the R.E.M. Unplugged.
My store didn't get any and I remember getting nauseous while waiting in line for other stuff at the cost this album was demanding on Ebay. Thanks to an honest 10c member, I was able to get one at the regular cost and it's on its way.
What needs to happen is for record companies to audit the stores on Ebay that are getting these 5-9 copies of a product and are selling them for an astronomical amount of money and blackball them. It won't happen but it would be nice.
Here is my research on the R.E.M. Ebay sales for the top 4 sellers.
R.E.M Unplugged LP Ebay Sales
iriomote11
9 sold
Average sell price $228.32
upperstateacquisitions
6 sold
Average sell price $255.79
shoeskate05
6 sold
Average sell price $264.99
tracksofthepast
5 sold
Average sell price $230.80
Eddie Vedder - JACKSONVILLE, FL 11/24/12 / JACKSONVILLE, FL 11/25/12 / ORLANDO, FL 11-28-12
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer