PAUL WELLER takes a stand against RSD flippers

given2fly23

A Message From Paul To His Fans About Record Store Day

This is a message to all the fans who couldn't get the new vinyl single on Record Store Day and/or paid a lot of money for a copy on eBay.

I agree with all of you who have sent messages expressing your anger and disappointment at the exploitation of these "limited editions" by touts.

Apart from making the record, the rest has very little to do with me but I am disheartened by the whole thing and unfortunately I won't be taking part in Record Store Day again.

It's such a shame because as you know I am a big supporter of independent record stores but the greedy touts making a fast buck off genuine fans is disgusting and goes against the whole philosophy of RSD.

There were copies of my single on eBay the day before Record Store Day and I've heard stories of people queuing outside their local record shop only to be told there were none left at opening time!

It only takes a few to spoil a wonderful concept for everyone else. Shame on those touts.

Don't support their trade and don't let them use Record Store Day to ruin the very thing it's designed to support.

Onwards. PW

PS. I'd like to say thank you for all the positive, supportive comments on our privacy case recently. Bless ya.

MayDay10

touts?

texasistheSTEVEN

English for flipper

jm257212

Amen

WhatYouTaughtMe

=D>

willbarclay

:-bd

given2fly23

nice to see someone is paying attention (not a shot against PJ or any other artist).

whofeelslikeadrank

given2fly23 said:

nice to see someone is paying attention.

+1

PJ_Soul

whofeelslikeadrank said:

given2fly23 said:

nice to see someone is paying attention.

+1

I guess, but it's not like its really doing people any good. He says he's just not going to participate in RSD anymore. That doesn't help anyone either.

jervin007

PJ_Soul said:

whofeelslikeadrank said:

given2fly23 said:

nice to see someone is paying attention.

+1

I guess, but it's not like its really doing people any good. He says he's just not going to participate in RSD anymore. That doesn't help anyone either.

Agreed. It's impossible to prevent items from hitting the secondary market. I usually get most of the titles I want. If I miss a few, to flippers or other fans, so be it.

given2fly23

I'd rather an artist at least speak up on the issue than just say "eh, there's nothing I can do."

PJ_Soul

given2fly23 said:

I'd rather an artist at least speak up on the issue than just say "eh, there's nothing I can do."

I'd rather an artist speak up about it too. This guy did that. However, he also bailed out of the whole thing, which is pretty much the worst reaction to the situation I can think of, and in fact is the epitome of saying "eh, there's nothing I can do." Just tag on, "Fuck it, I'm out!" and you've got this dude's reaction to it.

given2fly23

What else can they do? The only thing I can think of is delayed delivery.

Fan club only doesnt work, as we have seen here.
In-store only doesn't work.
Order limits don't work.

I guess they could make more, but then the risk lies with the artist (having leftover inventory).

...or imprint each record with the buyer's name, which would be sweet!

PABLINHO

I think it would have been wiser if he made 5000 instead of 500 tbh and not quitting the RSD

PJ-Cubs

PJ_Soul said:

given2fly23 said:

I'd rather an artist at least speak up on the issue than just say "eh, there's nothing I can do."

I'd rather an artist speak up about it too. This guy did that. However, he also bailed out of the whole thing, which is pretty much the worst reaction to the situation I can think of, and in fact is the epitome of saying "eh, there's nothing I can do." Just tag on, "Fuck it, I'm out!" and you've got this dude's reaction to it.

If enough artists backed out of RSD, it would make retailers re-think the tactics that they use to sell the limited items. I have seen stores sell the rare items at ebay prices in their store on RSD.

jm257212

Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?
Maybe up the print numbers a bit too.
I hope next year will be better.

given2fly23

jm257212 said:

Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?

That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.

PJ_Soul

PABLINHO said:

I think it would have been wiser if he made 5000 instead of 500 tbh and not quitting the RSD

BINGO.

boyo79

given2fly23 said:

jm257212 said:

Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?

That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.

Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.

Amongst the Ani

If you sell something for less than its true worth flipping will happen. Its called arbitrage and is a normal business practice. The whole american stock market is predicated on this concept. Buy under-priced stocks, sell when they price rises to its true value.

I'm not a fan of flipping but there is nothing that can be done except sell it at a higher price which hurts those that want it for the actual music or print more copies to lower the initial value. If he wants to make a stand he should try and find out how copies hit ebay before RSD even happened and no longer distribute his music to those stores that sold early or online, if thats something he could even do. But bailing out of it doesn't help the situation.

jervin007

More bands should do what Dave Matthews does and release rsd items on black vinyl as well. Gives more fans an opportunity to get a copy of the pressing, while still keeps the colored/limited items collectible

PJ_Soul

boyo79 said:

given2fly23 said:

jm257212 said:

Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?

That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.

Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.

No, it won't happen.

But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.

But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.

In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).

given2fly23

You guys are right, bailing will actually just hurt the stores that were selling the records at the correct price and not flipping or inflating.

given2fly23

PJ_Soul said:

In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping

like what?

PJ_Soul

given2fly23 said:

PJ_Soul said:

In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping

like what?

I outlined it in that post. Regulation similar to book sales. Also, monitoring of sellers. Blacklisting of sellers who flip would have a big impact.

given2fly23

PJ_Soul said:

given2fly23 said:

PJ_Soul said:

In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping

like what?

I outlined it in that post. Regulation similar to book sales.

That would work for in-store sales, but not online/ebay sales. Not sure there's any way to stop that other than sell direct to fans, which defeats RSD.

This is like a bad riddle.

PJ_Soul

given2fly23 said:

PJ_Soul said:

given2fly23 said:

PJ_Soul said:

In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping

like what?

I outlined it in that post. Regulation similar to book sales.

That would work for in-store sales, but not online/ebay sales. Not sure there's any way to stop that other than sell direct to fans, which defeats RSD.

This is like a bad riddle.

Added in edit: blacklisting of sellers who flip could include ebay sales. A central place to report and a list compiled for all record producers to consult. Wouldn't be hard at all. Of course there could also easily be a method by which wrongly accused sellers could dispute claims. It would stop everyone, but it would be a big dent, and act as a deterrent.

guypjfreak

well said

PJ-Cubs

PJ_Soul said:

boyo79 said:

given2fly23 said:

jm257212 said:

Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?

That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.

Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.

No, it won't happen.

But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.

But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.

In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).

While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.

I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.

PJ_Soul

PJ-Cubs said:

PJ_Soul said:

boyo79 said:

given2fly23 said:

jm257212 said:

Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?

That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.

Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.

No, it won't happen.

But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.

But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.

In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).

While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.

I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.

I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves?
Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.

PJ-Cubs

PJ_Soul said:

PJ-Cubs said:

PJ_Soul said:

boyo79 said:

given2fly23 said:

jm257212 said:

Imo. The only way to stop it is for consumers to not by it..to be patient. Do u really need in immediately?

That's a big part of it. The poster/vinyl craze has gotten out of hand, adults behaving like children at christmas. It reminds me of how resellers ruined baseball cards when I was young.

Yep. And we see it happen alot just here on this website!!! Record companies can either stop the limited runs or people should just avoid paying over the odds on the secondary market. But we know this won't happen.

No, it won't happen.

But for me it's not limited edition in general that's the issue here (I LIKE limited edition stuff, and while it sucks, I see no reason why individuals shouldn't be able to flip all the live long day if they want). It's record store owners flipping that's the problem here, not individuals on the secondary market flipping. Something should be done about those store owners who participate in RSD but flip the LE items they get. I.e. regulation by the producers of the records, just like they do in the book business, where they print the price of the book right on the item itself. Isn't there a way to also restrict retailers from selling for more than a set price? I believe so.

But also, the extremely small numbers of LE stuff for RSD in particular seem pretty dumb. 100 or 500 copies of certain things for RSD in particular is definitely a part of the problem. The whole point of RSD (as opposed to LE sales on fan sites) is to invigorate record stores for the sake of consumers. Offering only 100 or 500 for RSD works against the whole point of the day because of the temptation it presents to store owners.

In any case, there is definitely something that COULD be done with RSD flipping, but no one seems to care enough to put in the effort (since simply not participating as a form of protest is no effort at all).

While I am not a fan of flipping, I would rather have the record stores raise the prices on these items than have people buy them and then resell them on ebay/Lost Dogs/etc. At least that way the $$ goes to someone whose livelihood is based on selling records, not some opportunist who decided to get in line early to get some stuff to sell on ebay. The store have costs to operate (rent, employees, etc) that these flippers do not have.

I feel the same way about poster artists. Why should Klausen or MunkOne sell a poster for $60-$90 and then watch someone buy it to immediately list it on ebay for 2-3 times that amount. I would rather see the artists raise their prices so that the people who did the work and created the art get the benefit.

I guess, but who's to say that private flippers aren't using the money to support themselves?
Anyway, the fact of the matter is that retailers can be regulated. Private individuals cannot. I personally think that record retailers who use RSD that way are despicable and doing a DISSERVICE to their own industry, and in the long run are harming their livelihoods, not aiding it. I have a MUCH more negative view of them than I do individual flippers.

So if you owned a record store and that was how you fed you family, you would have no issue for selling something for $39.99 and then watching the buyer (who did NO REAL WORK) sell it on ebay for $200.