False flag attacks

rgambs

BinFrog said:

Oh, ok...makes sense.

So someone posts about false flag attacks, without any links or anything (or you know, pesky things that are important on a message board like...oh...an original thought to which people can reply and add their own). And let me get this straight - there's a possibility that my government was possibly behind any or all of the following:

9/11
Newtown Massacre
Colorado Move theater Shooting
Oklahoma City
The Boston Marathon Bombings
Waco (a little more complicated of course)

And have I heard of the Gulf of Tonkin and.or the Pentagon Papers? Absolutely. 2 incidents directly tied to, possibly, the desire to escalate the war in Vietnam and provoke the enemy. How do either of those compare to domestic acts of terror in which Americans were killed on American soil?

But to tie those into the events above, if I may: my government, who can't keep the gulf of Tonkin, the Pentagon Papers, Watergate, Monica-gate and the NSA spy program from leaking, and still can't give a straight answer on weapons of mass destruction or Benghazi...THAT government...is behind any or all of the incidents listed above? And NOTHING has leaked at this point? And by nothing I mean nothing credible. So help me god if anyone says anything about Super-Thermite (or is it Super-DUPER-Thermite?)...

So it's this government, that over the years has managed to fuck up just about everything, that is possibly behind several incidents of mass destruction and mayhem on our own soil...for the purpose of: practicing martial law? insurance fraud? as a pretense to go to war? as a means to pass the Patriot Act?

Ok, just making sure we're on the same page here.

he asked if anyone puts stock in false flag theories and gave some examples of what people theorize. You threw out an insult. Saying no would have sufficed.

BinFrog

rgambs said:

he asked if anyone puts stock in false flag theories and gave some examples of what people theorize. You threw out an insult. Saying no would have sufficed.

Sorry, but when someone says "false flag" these days, 90% of the time it's the calling card of an Alex Jones worshiper.

BinFrog

(and if what i said was an insult, you need thicker skin)

polaris_x

BinFrog said:

polaris_x said:

it's not to say that all these theories are true but simply - you can't go through the process objectively with people anymore ...

The problem for me is that the "truthers" in all of these cases just come across as complete nutjobs. Take 9/11 for example. I won't deny there's some fishy stuff going on behind the scenes, and there's a lot more to the story than what we've been told in the "official" narrative. But the stuff that some of these really, really out there conspiracy theorists have come up with...it's just near impossible to take any of it seriously.

Did you ever see that TV a few years ago where they pitted truthers against scientists/experts? Essentially the truthers laid out all of their theories, and one by one they were all essentially proven wrong...but the truthers wouldn't budge on ANY of it. They were so god damn arrogant and they just desperately want their fringe theories to be right...and they wouldn't listen to reason.

but to my point ... this works both ways ... consider the case of the WM3 ... originally - all those that thought they were innocent were given the same attitude ... why is not possible for us to objectively go through the information and come to our own conclusions without the preconceived notions of belief?

it's also like this missing plane ... i think it's stolen ... not because I want to believe in the theory but simply because of the information presented to me ... if it turns out to have indeed crashed - then i can accept that too ...

chadwick

jesse ventura is my hero
he's all over the gulf of tonkin .... well, & other things

did you all know jim morrison's dad was a naval officer big shot who was in charge of a ship in the beginning of the vietnam war
prehaps he was on the ship they say was fired on?

chadwick

http://youtu.be/HODxnUrFX6k
gulf of tonkin
http://youtu.be/K2Wl2M4yLkY

JimmyV

The problem I see with many of these "false flag" claims is that they give the government and the intelligence community more credit than they deserve. The point has been made here often that if the government was capable of all these things it is accused of, from Kennedy to 9/11, then you would think they would be capable of "finding" WMD's in Iraq. That didn't happen and it forever altered my view on conspiracies. I am not saying that they cannot happen or that they have not happened in the past. It is just that you have people screaming conspiracy as events are unfolding and with little reason to do so...other than that is how they make their money. That is why I condemn Alex Jones.

chadwick

http://youtu.be/QepNfdGRjrE
cia operation phoenix

don't forget (not mentioned here in this exact video) the cia & us military worked together & intercepted heroin smugglers, murdered them & took their heroin. scary, tricky stuff. these dudes running the show are beyond crafty. you have no idea how intricate, deceitful, evasive, deceptive & shifty these cats are. they will use up guys & those guys will barelly have a clue what or who they are operating under. it is like a quagmire of mazes turned upside down & inside out & toss up in the air after being shredded to pieces

dignin

BinFrog said:

Oh, ok...makes sense.

So someone posts about false flag attacks, without any links or anything (or you know, pesky things that are important on a message board like...oh...an original thought to which people can reply and add their own). And let me get this straight - there's a possibility that my government was possibly behind any or all of the following:

9/11
Newtown Massacre
Colorado Move theater Shooting
Oklahoma City
The Boston Marathon Bombings
Waco (a little more complicated of course)

And have I heard of the Gulf of Tonkin and.or the Pentagon Papers? Absolutely. 2 incidents directly tied to, possibly, the desire to escalate the war in Vietnam and provoke the enemy. How do either of those compare to domestic acts of terror in which Americans were killed on American soil?

But to tie those into the events above, if I may: my government, who can't keep the gulf of Tonkin, the Pentagon Papers, Watergate, Monica-gate and the NSA spy program from leaking, and still can't give a straight answer on weapons of mass destruction or Benghazi...THAT government...is behind any or all of the incidents listed above? And NOTHING has leaked at this point? And by nothing I mean nothing credible. So help me god if anyone says anything about Super-Thermite (or is it Super-DUPER-Thermite?)...

So it's this government, that over the years has managed to fuck up just about everything, that is possibly behind several incidents of mass destruction and mayhem on our own soil...for the purpose of: practicing martial law? insurance fraud? as a pretense to go to war? as a means to pass the Patriot Act?

Ok, just making sure we're on the same page here.

Yup

unsung

Govt couldn't possibly be irresponsible enough to direct anything evil against the people, right? That could never happen.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

BinFrog

This is public information...that leaked. What's your point?

Last-12-Exit

To answer the question: no. Most if not all of the 9/11 truthers have been proven wrong. I'm not sure the government is smart enough to keep that shit a secret anymore.

Halifax2TheMax

unsung said:

By now everyone has seen some type of conspiracy theory related to tragic events. You have 9/11 Truthers, Waco, Ok City, Boston, Conn school shootings, Colorado movie shooting. Why is everything on the school shooting still classified? Look at all of the fishy things that happened at Boston. Some of this doesn't line up.

So, does anyone put much stock into claims that these tragic events are really created and carried out by the US government? Does anyone think that they would really do such things? Or do you think it absolutely insane for people to even begin thinking that way?

What, pray tell, are all "the fishy things that happened in Boston?"

And to answer the question, no, "false flag events" is a term coined by right wing nut jobs so they can spew from their lap top inside a Starbucks, while their website runs ads that say, "Click here to donate $5.00 now to prevent Obama's gun grab."

Peace.

chadwick

Last-12-Exit said:

To answer the question: no. Most if not all of the 9/11 truthers have been proven wrong. I'm not sure the government is smart enough to keep that shit a secret anymore.

99.999% of government officials would have basically zero idea of what is going on. some may have slight ideas but with dead end attachments. others may have other ideas opposite of their constituents with dead endings, yet somehow, someway, all this bullshit works together.

yes all governments fuck around with story telling & twisted trails of bizarre plottings.

first & foremost... do not ever believe everything your government tells you. do not ever believe everything is on the up & up because it is not. most people could not ever be as crafty as the good folks setting out & undertaking black operations. they themselves do not have all the bits & pieces to the puzzle. they do exactly what their job entails & that is all, they move on & the next stage is set up in the falling domino effect in operations

the us is brilliant at this game as are the terrorists we chase around

Cosmo

unsung said:

Govt couldn't possibly be irresponsible enough to direct anything evil against the people, right? That could never happen.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.
Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.
The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

...
I don't think anyone here belives that our government is not capable of terrible deeds... but, in this example... it was not carried out. It may mean that during a risk analysis session on the Cuban issue, some fucking nut case came up with this hair-brained plan. It was probably conceived under the same premise that got us into Cuba in 1899... Remember the Maine?
Thankfully, others in the military/government saw this as a bad idea and scrapped it in favor of the Bay Of Pigs fiasco.
But, yes, our strategic planners can come up with some pretty heinous plans... and hopefully, voted down in favor of a less heinous plan.

Cosmo

Last-12-Exit said:

To answer the question: no. Most if not all of the 9/11 truthers have been proven wrong. I'm not sure the government is smart enough to keep that shit a secret anymore.

...
People that believe that the government is comprised of evil masterminds that are capable of orchestrating these attacks and keeping it all a secret... also believe that they cannot tie their own shoes without almost strangling themselves with the laces. Evil geniuses... or pea-brained imbiciles? Which is it?

Drowned Out

BinFrog said:

This is public information...that leaked. What's your point?

How long after did it leak tho? I don't recall. I forget what the terms are on the FOIA....seems most of this stuff comes to light much too late to matter, and is often tampered with before it leaks.
I would imagine we will find out more about 9/11 once Cheney and co are dead and gone.
I find all of this stuff fascinating, and don't buy for a second that no one in the government is capable of planning and burying a mastermind type plan. We're not talking about your dipshit local congressman planning terror attacks. We're talking about the most highly trained and equipped military and intelligence personnel in the world. They are exactly the people capable of these kinds of plans. the people in government involved in these things would be (are) working in concert with private sector (or black market) financiers and 'security' firms /mercenaries, which makes it even easier to keep things off record, avoiding prying eyes. There are so many examples of these scandals; to think these stories end where we are told they do is naive at best...

If anyone thinks bin laden was taken out per the official story/movie, sorry, but you're a fool. How was that kept quiet? How did the Dixie Mafia keep their whole story from being told? How did Rove spin Bush's coke use without it ruining his political career? What happened to so many 'witnesses' to strange happenings surrounding 9/11? Follow the trail of bodies....people ARE silenced, we don't hear much about it tho,and those stories become conspiracies of their own. But I can guess this with a fair amount of certainty - it doesn't take many 'examples' to shut people up.

And I wish Alex jones would fuck off. He discredits every valid question asked outside the mainstream. He's made 'conspiracy' and 'false flag' dirty words, that get you shut up before you start talking. Sad.

DriftingByTheStorm

Last-12-Exit said:

To answer the question: no. Most if not all of the 9/11 truthers have been proven wrong. I'm not sure the government is smart enough to keep that shit a secret anymore.

Wrong.
Dozens of "official version" accounts of events fail to pass scrutiny to this day. This statement rings just as hollow as If you had said "most if not all the JFK theorists have been proven wrong".

Just read a few of these non-sensationalized points that still seem far from "proved wrong" and think for yourself:
http://www.consensus911.org/the-911-consensus-points/