Ash Wednesday

rgambs

OK this is not meant to demean or belittle anyone. I want to hear if anyone has a similar story. I was raised secularly, though not as an atheist, in a small town. Ash Wednesday was a mark on the calendar and was vaguely related to fish frys and Easter. Flash forward to 21 years old, I get a job at Riverside Methodist Hospital (Ohio State's biggest competitor) in the surgery department and show up for work on Ash Wednesday. As soon as morning breaks begin, people are dissapearing and coming back with a huge black schmutz on their forehead and I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? People are behaving strangely, somewhat more grave than usual, and everyone is reluctant to talk about their ashes and what it means, but they offer to bless me so that I won't be the only white person (white person implied, not stated) without a smudge. The point I am driving at; did anyone else encounter this ritual without prior knowledge of it? Having no familiarity with it beforehand I must say that it was very disturbing, and seemed like the actions of a cult. Further research into Catholicism of course showed that it originated as a cult, but that initial experience was, as I said, disturbing to someone raised in a different way.

hedonist

It's not malevolent; no need to let unfamiliarity turn it into a negative.

Did you ask those people about it? Was there mutual engagement of what it means to them?

I was raised in a Jewish household, my husband (an Ohio fella like you!) in a Catholic one. Neither of us practice religion...but, from my experiences on both fronts, kindness and love were the proponents of any blessings, wishes, or prayers sent our way. I suspect this is the same.

(related note - the attorney for my company is a hardass. Intelligent as fuck, knowledgeable of the law, rational, logical. Every Ash Wednesday since I've worked here, he has the smudge. Good on him, on anyone, if they're trying to walk a [mostly] noble path.)

Jason P

It marks the beginning of Lent. The smudges are ashes from palm leaves collected from last year's Palm Sunday. Catholics usually choose to give up a bad habit for 40 days don't eat meat on Friday. Growing up Catholic, it never seemed odd to me.

unsung

I'll participate in it today for the first time. I'm becoming Catholic.

CH156378

Growing up catholic it was a good way to get a 1/2 day off of school..
I remember when I was older and in high school my mom would call and get me excused for half day as long as I would go to afternoon mass. So Me and my buddies would go blow a bunch of joints and rub those ashes on our forehead so as to make my parents think I had attended mass.

oysterjar

Growing up a Catholic it marked the beginning of Lent and the Easter season. As kids we would all pretend like it wasn't the most absurd thing to have a large black mark on our foreheads while eating dinner (you aren't supposed to wipe it off). It also meant the beginning of giving up something you liked for 40 days and then splurging on it for weeks straight after Easter to make up for lost time.

callen

Work downtown Houston and over the years there are less and less people with ash on their face. No one on my floor has it...and many are catholic.. And OP, do get caught off guard almost telling people they have dirt on their face but then remember. To each their own but it is really silly.

hedonist

callen, much as you may find it inane, it's not to those who do it with sincerity; it's meaningful and I think for most, part of the ritual or road toward becoming a better person.

Kinda reminds me of Yom Kippur, actually. Sort of a solemn, introspective, take-stock of yourself/your life kind of thing.

If it works for them, good job, I say!

callen

hedonist said:

callen, much as you may find it inane, it's not to those who do it with sincerity; it's meaningful and I think for most, part of the ritual or road toward becoming a better person.

Kinda reminds me of Yom Kippur, actually. Sort of a solemn, introspective, take-stock of yourself/your life kind of thing.

If it works for them, good job, I say!

Never disrespectful and I know I have things I do that may not be rational but putting ash on ones face is silly. To each their own but a little reality check is good for society. Believe religion is dying because it's getting harder and harder to make one self believe in magic with the info we now have.

rgambs

hedonist you speak of ritual and i guess this is the big question nowadays; is ritual necessary and are we better off without it... Being a huge literature fan I am big on symbology and metaphor, and those aspects of revealed religion I can relate to, but when one goes the next step and takes metaphor literally, I begin to lose the ability to relate. Is ritual necessary? I guess to me, ritual that is self-derived is much more likely to be healthy, as there is always an application of standards...you ask yourself if it makes sense, it if makes you feel good, whereas within revealed religion, the ritual is imposed and accepted. Ramble over.

Who Princess

hedonist said:

callen, much as you may find it inane, it's not to those who do it with sincerity; it's meaningful and I think for most, part of the ritual or road toward becoming a better person.

Kinda reminds me of Yom Kippur, actually. Sort of a solemn, introspective, take-stock of yourself/your life kind of thing.

If it works for them, good job, I say!

As a recovering Catholic, I think the Yom Kippur comparison is apt. Ash Wednesday always seemed to me to be a day when you changed your focus from the physical to the spiritual. That may be something that we all should do at times but having a day set aside to remind you is helpful. We set aside days for all kinds of other things (usually for some sort of excess) so I don't have any problem with people observing this one. Also, Catholics are not the only folks who observe Ash Wednesday.

To the OP, I'd just say that if you are puzzled or bothered by people having ashes on their foreheads, ask somebody what's the deal. I've been asked MANY times over the years and also worked at a place where I was made fun of because of it. There's nothing offensive about asking someone to explain it. I'm fairly sure it wouldn't be the first time they were asked.

And to callen, having ashes on someone's face may seem silly to you but it obviously means something to them or they wouldn't have done it. People have lots of customs and beliefs that strike me as weird but I'll respect them just the same. Differences among people keep life interesting.

oysterjar

Its amazing I had no idea what half of what I did as a Catholic meant growing up. I actually had to start asking questions at a point in my life and even my parents couldn't answer most of them.

hedonist

rgambs said:

hedonist you speak of ritual and i guess this is the big question nowadays; is ritual necessary and are we better off without it... Being a huge literature fan I am big on symbology and metaphor, and those aspects of revealed religion I can relate to, but when one goes the next step and takes metaphor literally, I begin to lose the ability to relate. Is ritual necessary? I guess to me, ritual that is self-derived is much more likely to be healthy, as there is always an application of standards...you ask yourself if it makes sense, it if makes you feel good, whereas within revealed religion, the ritual is imposed and accepted. Ramble over.

I don't (can't) have a flat-out answer, but some rituals are harmless, intensely personal, and bring peace of mind and awareness to oneself.

From the Jewish side of it, I look at the acts (among others) of sitting Shiva, or lighting the menorah (which I have done since my father died, out of respect to him - what it meant to him both before and after the Holocaust). They mean much to those doing so.

If you're better off without ritual, that's great and it shouldn't ever be forced upon anyone. But for those who embrace certain acts of their own volition that may appear odd but have no true effect on anyone else, I just can't find the point in diminishing them.

PS to Who Princess - you fucking rock

Who Princess

Back at you, hedonist. B-)

rgambs

lighting the menorah intrigues me, i know nothing of the literal or symbolic import of this act. i like to burn candles for those that I have lost. for me it is a symbol that they live on in memory and i have taken the effort to remember.

brianlux

I was born amongst the Frozen Chosen (Presbyterian). Never really got into the ash thing but I like the earthy aspect of that ritual better than the stale cracker body and grape juice blood which was the staple ritual I experienced in my youth. There's something more mystical about ashes.

even flow - question mark

@ the original poster. With no real offence meant:

If you are American and don't know that, I can see why you people have such a hard time with the Muslims and other "strange" religions to your country.

callen

Who Princess:

Belief, custom or otherwise it's silly to rub ashes on ones face. Being PC may give one warm fuzzies but get tired of being forced to be PC at work, being blessed by 5 co-workers when I sneeze, each trying to out do the other showing their spirituality with some even adding the 'God' in front.. Asking someone how they are doing and they say they are "Blessed" rather than saying good or shitty. Please understand my guilty pleasure on AMT to call it as I see it. Why I come to this board.....PJ's board.

Saw but one person yesterday, and I saw several hundred fellow Houstonians yesterday, so appears even the believers are realizing it and abstaining in this act. And again, as I stated in my earlier post, admit to do silly things as well, have riot act sticker on my car and am a grown ass adult.

callen

even flow - question mark said:

@ the original poster. With no real offence meant:

If you are American and don't know that, I can see why you people have such a hard time with the Muslims and other "strange" religions to your country.

Why must I know/undertand/emphathize about others religions? Why is it my responsibility to understand why a rational person would put dirt on their face or kill in the name of god or self mutilate to show worthiness to a god? Hell, should I understand why the idiot snake handler got bit and killed?!?!?

hedonist

callen said:

even flow - question mark said:

@ the original poster. With no real offence meant:

If you are American and don't know that, I can see why you people have such a hard time with the Muslims and other "strange" religions to your country.

Why must I know/undertand/emphathize about others religions? Why is it my responsibility to understand why a rational person would put dirt on their face or kill in the name of god or self mutilate to show worthiness to a god? Hell, should I understand why the idiot snake handler got bit and killed?!?!?

I'm don't think comparing those with ashes on their foreheads with those who commit acts of violence toward others or themselves is fair.

I'm not into the PC thing either (I think common sense and compassion are enough), but why not try to understand? Don't you try to figure out other areas of people and life? Or if you've genuinely tried and can't, not put it down? Someone sneezes, I'll give them a "bless you", and it's fine by me when on the receiving end (even if prefaced by "god").

As to being blessed...there's a woman in my building who always gives that answer when I ask how she's doing. Turns out she's gone through some hellish health issues and is now well. Considers herself blessed and says so. Being offended by that never occurred to me; it actually puts things in perspective.

rgambs

@ even flow, this is just my personal curiosity, most americans are familiar with this ritual. what you have to understand about americans, is that most of us are incredibly shallow, vacant, and dumb. 'mercans don't like muslims because they are brown and 'mercans are ethnophobic. I personally don't discriminate for any reason, but I do hold followers of all religions to be stuck in a silly past, and all religions are "strange" to a person who was raised to think critically.

@ callen, i like your boldness! i too am an opponent of political correctness...and also think rationality and compassion are enough...you guys are straight up good peoples. I also think of this as a place where i can come tell it how I see it, in plain and offensive turns. I am offended plenty and it motivates me, so I never feel bad offending anyone. I don't want to hurt anyone, of course, but we have to shake up our views on the world. I like to suggest that God is unworthy of love, as He desires to burn his children for eternity for their minor transgressions and even the worst of us lowly humans aren't that depraved.. I digress..

callen said:

even flow - question mark said:

@ the original poster. With no real offence meant:

If you are American and don't know that, I can see why you people have such a hard time with the Muslims and other "strange" religions to your country.

Why must I know/undertand/emphathize about others religions? Why is it my responsibility to understand why a rational person would put dirt on their face or kill in the name of god or self mutilate to show worthiness to a god? Hell, should I understand why the idiot snake handler got bit and killed?!?!?

(yes yes PC disclaimer indeed) we all strive to understand and tolerate each other..that being said, it is expected that I should know of customs beforehand, as many consider them so private it doesn't sit well to explain to the curious lay-person.. Many ashers didn't want to explain, they were dismissive and I get this always when religion comes up. You want me to understand but you don't want to explain it to me. (you isn't any of you of course)
I don't mind "god bless you" because to me it is just a part of our vernacular and (sidenote, i am all digression today, as a poet i find that when i am searching for a word to replace God there are not many options!!) trivial to me, but when people say I will pray for you, this feels personal and I want to return a reply of "you best work on yourself there buddy, you're talking to an invisible man in the sky and using it to feel superior to others" or something less digressive.
the sun is out, the temperature is just above freezing, sounds like kayaking weather to me!

callen

hedonist said:

callen said:

even flow - question mark said:

@ the original poster. With no real offence meant:

If you are American and don't know that, I can see why you people have such a hard time with the Muslims and other "strange" religions to your country.

Why must I know/undertand/emphathize about others religions? Why is it my responsibility to understand why a rational person would put dirt on their face or kill in the name of god or self mutilate to show worthiness to a god? Hell, should I understand why the idiot snake handler got bit and killed?!?!?

I'm don't think comparing those with ashes on their foreheads with those who commit acts of violence toward others or themselves is fair.

I'm not into the PC thing either (I think common sense and compassion are enough), but why not try to understand? Don't you try to figure out other areas of people and life? Or if you've genuinely tried and can't, not put it down? Someone sneezes, I'll give them a "bless you", and it's fine by me when on the receiving end (even if prefaced by "god").

As to being blessed...there's a woman in my building who always gives that answer when I ask how she's doing. Turns out she's gone through some hellish health issues and is now well. Considers herself blessed and says so. Being offended by that never occurred to me; it actually puts things in perspective.

I understand why they do it just think it's silly which it is. Not offended in the least by anyone's practices. Find it funny the lady your referring to feels blessed as god put her through her hard times.

hedonist

One can feel / be blessed without believing in god.

(And sometimes, those hard times can make one appreciate the upswings that much more; I do, and I'm agnostic.)

cp3iverson

callen said:

I understand why they do it just think it's silly which it is. Not offended in the least by anyone's practices. Find it funny the lady your referring to feels blessed as god put her through her hard times.

Yes but she may also look at it like shes still here because of her God. I respect every religion as long as it's not pushed in my face door to door. Whatever gives you a path to do well (and to do good)

Cosmo

I'm one of those people that believes in the freedom for people to choose whatever religion they choose to follow... which also includes choosing to follow no religion.
I guess my religion is the one that doesn't have all of the answers... because the one thing I know for sure is that we don't have all of the answers. One of those answers is, 'Does God Exist?'. I know that we don't know and any institution that tries to tell you otherwise is more than likely, trying to sell you something.
...
Now... the one thing I would like to understand is this... since Jesus was in Jeruselem for the Jewish Passover week and was crucified for blasphemy during the Passover observence (while the lambs were being slaughtered at the Temple... shouldn't Easter, His Resurrection, be 3 days after that Passover date? Why is Easter, Jesus' Resurrection, on the First Sunday after the First Full Moon after the Spring Equinox? This works out most of the time... but, sometimes, like in 2016... Easter will come before Passover.
I also understand that the Pagan celebration of return of Spring comes around the Equinox. These celebrations focused on the rebirth of the land to ancient crop growers and signs of fertility... sacred eggs and rabbits, known for their prolific birth rates... still persist today. Those celebrations surrounded the worship of Earth Goddesses, not in line with having other Gods than Yahweh.
I'm not complaining... I love Easter because i love the chocolate candies shaped like eggs and bunies. And I love the invention of the indestructible 'Peeps'. I just hope that people would look into the foundations of their religion and get a better understanding of how their church was formed... including the political and power struggles... rather than just taking in what the church doctrine tells them they must obey. Figure out WHY you must obey and the justifications given... and by the men motivated to draft and enforce the doctrine.
Personally.. i believe the teaching of Christ are the most important thing about His story, not that He be burdenened with all of my Earthly sins. If I were to follow His teachings... i would not commit sins. Something I think would be a good thing to strive for.
...
Just as a note... i am not a Christian. i do not adhere to Catholic/Christian doctrine. i do not claim jesus as my Saviour... as a personal possession of mine.. nor do I burden Him with my poor decisions and actions I make during this life. i just think Jesus carried a good message.

callen

cp3iverson said:

callen said:

I understand why they do it just think it's silly which it is. Not offended in the least by anyone's practices. Find it funny the lady your referring to feels blessed as god put her through her hard times.

Yes but she may also look at it like shes still here because of her God. I respect every religion as long as it's not pushed in my face door to door. Whatever gives you a path to do well (and to do good)

Yeah well find it funny how God blesses after he takest away...but oh well.

Had conversation with co-worker...making $200K plus a year and topic of homeless came up...her exact quote..... "well the way I figure it, I dont' need to worry about the homeless cause god will take care of them".... almost fell out of my chair but had to bite my lip.....how conveinent.

Anyway we can go round and round on religion...but this was just supposed to be about ash cross on the face.

Peace

even flow - question mark

callen said:

even flow - question mark said:

@ the original poster. With no real offence meant:

If you are American and don't know that, I can see why you people have such a hard time with the Muslims and other "strange" religions to your country.

Why must I know/undertand/emphathize about others religions? Why is it my responsibility to understand why a rational person would put dirt on their face or kill in the name of god or self mutilate to show worthiness to a god? Hell, should I understand why the idiot snake handler got bit and killed?!?!?

Most people who offer up an argument/disucssion usually know a wee bit about the couter point. That is why you should know a tad about it.

You probably believe in the big bang, yet nobody has offered up what was before it. Maybe you'd like to take a crack at it without refering to god, or saying i don't know. People like comfort and religion offers that to them.

To skip away from the PC police. We had a dude at work who we nicknamed "ash wednesday". The kicker was he was muslim and his head had a permanent mark from having hit the ground from praying so much. He even got the twist on the nickname. God love people who can get along.

rgambs

we all get along! we come to the interwebs to vent frustration to understanding, open people, so that we don't vent face slappings to the fools we have to deal with in real life

cp3iverson

Heres the truth.....the vast majority of religious people are not the extremists that you see on the headlines. Most live ordinary flawed lives with their own spin on things. More of a take this but not that and apply kind of thing. Religion is simply a tool to help them lead a decent life. Thats why I never buy into the Catholic bashing or the Muslim bashing. You have to be an idiot to think all Muslims are the same or that all Catholics or Christians are are foxnews worshipers. Everyone has their own political views and life views. Funnily enough it's the people hurling insults that come off as closed minded. Lol.

unsung

cp3iverson said:

Heres the truth.....the vast majority of religious people are not the extremists that you see on the headlines. Most live ordinary flawed lives with their own spin on things. More of a take this but not that and apply kind of thing. Religion is simply a tool to help them lead a decent life. Thats why I never buy into the Catholic bashing or the Muslim bashing. You have to be an idiot to think all Muslims are the same or that all Catholics or Christians are are foxnews worshipers. Everyone has their own political views and life views. Funnily enough it's the people hurling insults that come off as closed minded. Lol.

Perfectly said. Kudos.

mikepegg44

Traditions like these bring people, often strangers, together in a way that makes them feel a part of a community. My wife is Catholic, I am certainly not, am agnostic if anything, but when I was talking with a priest deciding whether or not to allow I asked him about the rituals. Part of it is the history behind it, the symbolism, but another part of it is that a catholic can walk into any church around the world, and will feel at home because of rituals and traditions like this. For me that opened my eyes a bit, I mean, everyone has their religion, whether it be the environment, Pearl Jam, football, theocratic organization (for lack of a better term), everyone has a religion and everyone has customs.

As for customs like Ash Wednesday, there is a comfort in it. There is a sense of community involved in a world that is becoming increasingly isolated by techonology.

as to the OP, I would think most things you have never encountered would be foreign to you, and it is up to you to find out more about it, or simply just assume everyone is crazy like I do...I look at these things through the eyes of my 3 year old, who is participating in a lot of these catholic customs for the first time and her interest and enjoyment and curiosity is quite infectious actually...it certainly has softened my stance on the importance of a religion in one's life and opened my eyes to the fact we all have, and to some extent, need a "religion".