Why are we working ourselves to death?‏

oftenreading

northerndragon said:

I'm doing it right now because I had a hospital go live to oversee and now I'm about to be away for 8 weeks and I'm a department of one so everything has to be tucked in before I'm gone. So for the next two days it's more work than anything, but I don't get the appeal in anyway. What the hell good is the money if your not enjoying yourself......never thought I would be so excited for surgery and the drugged stupor to follow as I am right now.

Good luck with the surgery - hope it all goes smoothly, that you get the results that you want, and that you do get some chill out time before you go back to work.

With your last point - a few years ago I had to get oral surgery. Because of the surgeon's schedule, I had to have it on a Thursday. That meant I had to have the Friday off work (I would not have been well enough to go back to work), and the weekend off, then back to work Monday. At some point I realized that I was actually excited to have the surgery because it meant two days off work, plus a weekend in which I wouldn't be running around like crazy doing all the things I don't have time to do during my work week. That was a shock, realizing how overworked I had become. (I wish I could tell you that this was an ah ha! moment that led to major life changes, but sadly no).

ldent42

I dunno man but I saw a headline that in NY we have the longest commute and longest hours. I didn't read the article cuz I don't wanna be sad. I'd like to figure out how to not get caught up in that cycle without having to emigrate

whispering hands

If I could not work, I would still have to have a job.. I get bored.. but I refuse to work
Myself to death. I live very happily on a 14,000 a year pay scale. So it works, except that I live in my parents' basement.. ( yeah I'm deadbeat Rob Lowe),. But once school is done, I can live very very well, virtually extravagant for me, on a 26,000 a year job! To each their own I guess. :-) as long as I can squeeze a couple of PJ shows in every few years, I'm good!

SPEEDY MCCREADY

I don't know anybody who is working themselves to death. I work more hours than any friends and family that I have, yet I don't feel like I am working myself to death. Though I still have friends who at the age of 45+, still look at work like they did when they were 18 years old. I have friends who at the age of 45+, still haven't held a full time job for more than 2 years at a time, before quitting or getting fired, due to their childish attitudes. These people/friends have no pension or 401K, they haven't put a damned dime in social security, and they are miserable. And what is sad? The fact that because they made the choice not to "give in to the man" and they had that "I don't live to work...I work to live" attitude, they will forever work, because they never once thought of retirement. So many of them still, at the age of 45+, still live paycheck to paycheck.

But to each their own.

eddiec

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “only a little while. The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs. The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.” The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “15 – 20 years.”

“But what then?” Asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!”

“Millions – then what?”

The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”

PJ_Soul

So the guy's going to have kids to play with everyday when he retires? He's saving the fun for when he and everyone he knows are largely too old to enjoy it, lol.
It's not like I don't believe in working hard (i do have a full time career that I enjoy and do well at). But i also believe in a much more healthy work-life balance than is considered the norm in North America. It's not an all or nothing kind of thing. The question here is not about working vs not working, or hard work vs laziness. People who strike a healthier balance aren't all poor or totally unprepared for retirement, as some have quite oddly suggested in this thread, lol. There is just true value in smelling the roses throughout life too, taking time for peace and enjoyment and calmness on a more day to day basis, and not just when you're old. I love how people think retirement is such an amazing state of being. Of course there are always exceptions, but the fact is that most people go downhill fast healthwise when they retire, because they're old. I realize that practically everyone thinks that they will be the exceptions, that they will be the ones who are fit as fiddles and raring to go when they're old and retired, ready to suck up as much living as they sacrificed for the almighty dollar when they were younger, but reality clearly shows us that this just won't be the case for a large number of people. The "popular, as-advertised" north American vision of retirement doesn't really match real life in most cases. So leaving it all for retirement seems like a pretty risky gamble to me. I don't mean everyone can just roll over and die when they retire, lol. Again, it's all about balance, both day to day, and long term.

I just think it seems odd to "save up" relaxation and fun and calm during the prime of their lives for a time in the future when in reality, the majority of folks are too troubled by medical conditions and aches and pains to really be able to feel free, when their friends and family are starting to drop dead around them, and when their kids have other shit to do because they are full grown adults.

Apparently, retirement rarely meets people's expectations. When that is the case, I think perhaps those who always said they'll work their asses off and enjoy shit when they retire feel pretty disappointed and regretful. Sure, they can afford a bigger house and more travel... but what about all those years behind them when they felt better, everyone around them were energetic, etc? Sacrificing 50 years of your prime to putting your head down and working your ass off for too many hours just because of this fantasy of being able to kick back on a beach for 20 years when you're old while probably dealing with various medical issues and declining mental abilities seems like a pretty lopsided deal.

frozenwithsalt

I work for my two boys. I feel lucky to have a job for one and even more so since I have great insurance for us. I also work to buy them things, to take them on nice vacations, and to provide them a home.

Then after my boys are taken care of I work because I love shopping at Ulta, I am a wanna be foodie (which can be an expensive hobby), I've saving to buy a classic car (67 RS SS Camero /swoon), I really like big TV's, I like Lego's just as much as my boys and of course to pay for PJ and related expenses (boots, posters, framing posters, travel expenses, tickets...ya'll get the idea).

What I think it comes down to is how happy you are at your job, I enjoy what I do. I work with our military community all day and nothing gives me more satisfaction than making things right for them.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Maybe working towards a retirement, and enjoying your later years, may be delusional to some.

But in my eyes, not working towards a retirement, not saving your money, and having to work well into your 70's, or work till you basically drop dead, all because you chose to "live your life" while you were young.......Seems pretty damned delusional to me.

But again, to each their own.

PJ_Soul

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

Maybe working towards a retirement, and enjoying your later years, may be delusional to some.

But in my eyes, not working towards a retirement, not saving your money, and having to work well into your 70's, or work till you basically drop dead, all because you chose to "live your life" while you were young.......Seems pretty damned delusional to me.

But again, to each their own.

But as I said, it's not an all or nothing deal. Balance. I think North America largely fails at that.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

PJ_Soul said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

Maybe working towards a retirement, and enjoying your later years, may be delusional to some.

But in my eyes, not working towards a retirement, not saving your money, and having to work well into your 70's, or work till you basically drop dead, all because you chose to "live your life" while you were young.......Seems pretty damned delusional to me.

But again, to each their own.

But as I said, it's not an all or nothing deal. Balance. I think North America largely fails at that.

Balance.
Work your 40 hours a week, put your money in social security, be smart enough to have a retirement plan to go along with your social security, have money saved and invested. When the time comes for retirement, you should be able to enjoy your golden years.

Its not all that hard.

Yet I know plenty of friends, who at the age of 45, still haven't figured it out. Plus, they have the attitude that at the age of 45 they can still find a job and retire at 67. Yet, what they fail to realize, is they are now competing in a job market against people 20 years younger. And what do my 45 year old friends have to offer? A bad work history, no signs of stability, and they haven't had any type of education in the last 20+ years. In other words, they aren't going to get the job they desire. I have friends, that in 5-10 years, are going to truly regret the decisions they made in life, towards work. Or maybe they wont regret their decisions.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Say I work 50 hours instead of 40? What is it that I am missing in my life? What "roses' am I not smelling? I have always worked plenty of overtime. Its the nature of my job. I really don't feel like I am missing out on anything. I get 4 weeks vacation a year, from work. Ok, that's not much to some, I get that. Especially when compared to the Europeans. But I tell you what, I make sure I enjoy the holy hell out of those vacations. My wife and I can hop on a plane and travel wherever we want to go. And we have always done just that. Working hard, and working more hours than most, doesn't in any way make me feel like I am missing out on anything. It does just the opposite. It enables me to go and do the things I want to do in life, without having to worry about affording anything.

frozenwithsalt

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

Maybe working towards a retirement, and enjoying your later years, may be delusional to some.

But in my eyes, not working towards a retirement, not saving your money, and having to work well into your 70's, or work till you basically drop dead, all because you chose to "live your life" while you were young.......Seems pretty damned delusional to me.

But again, to each their own.

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

Maybe working towards a retirement, and enjoying your later years, may be delusional to some.

But in my eyes, not working towards a retirement, not saving your money, and having to work well into your 70's, or work till you basically drop dead, all because you chose to "live your life" while you were young.......Seems pretty damned delusional to me.

But again, to each their own.

At one time, when in my 20's I didn't think anything about retirement....that was such a looong way off. It's scary how quickly my late 30's got here. Again though I am lucky, my employer matches up to 8% of my annual salary - so I have 10% going into my retirement plan pre tax from my pay - I don't even see it, and then my employer matches 8% - so total I have 18% going in. I try not to think about how much I would have had if I had started at 23.

PJ_Soul

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

Say I work 50 hours instead of 40? What is it that I am missing in my life? What "roses' am I not smelling? I have always worked plenty of overtime. Its the nature of my job. I really don't feel like I am missing out on anything. I get 4 weeks vacation a year, from work. Ok, that's not much to some, I get that. Especially when compared to the Europeans. But I tell you what, I make sure I enjoy the holy hell out of those vacations. My wife and I can hop on a plane and travel wherever we want to go. And we have always done just that. Working hard, and working more hours than most, doesn't in any way make me feel like I am missing out on anything. It does just the opposite. It enables me to go and do the things I want to do in life, without having to worry about affording anything.

Well I'm not actually talking about you specifically, lol. I have no idea what your life is like, and this isn't an issue about individuals. I'm talking about trends and cultural attitudes in society as a whole. This also includes things like how common flexible or modified work hours, mandatory vacation allotments, etc., as well as attitudes about work and power vs pleasure and relaxation.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

PJ_Soul said:

I just think it seems odd to "save up" relaxation and fun and calm during the prime of their lives for a time in the future when in reality, the majority of folks are too troubled by medical conditions and aches and pains to really be able to feel free, when their friends and family are starting to drop dead around them, and when their kids have other shit to do because they are full grown adults.

Apparently, retirement rarely meets people's expectations. When that is the case, I think perhaps those who always said they'll work their asses off and enjoy shit when they retire feel pretty disappointed and regretful. Sure, they can afford a bigger house and more travel... but what about all those years behind them when they felt better, everyone around them were energetic, etc? Sacrificing 50 years of your prime to putting your head down and working your ass off for too many hours just because of this fantasy of being able to kick back on a beach for 20 years when you're old while probably dealing with various medical issues and declining mental abilities seems like a pretty lopsided deal.

I don't agree with any of this.

A majority of folks are too troubled by medical conditions and aches and pains? A majority?
Life expectancy is at an all time high. People are living healthier lifestyles.

Retirement rarely meets peoples expectations? Rarely?
I disagree.

PJ_Soul

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

PJ_Soul said:

I just think it seems odd to "save up" relaxation and fun and calm during the prime of their lives for a time in the future when in reality, the majority of folks are too troubled by medical conditions and aches and pains to really be able to feel free, when their friends and family are starting to drop dead around them, and when their kids have other shit to do because they are full grown adults.

Apparently, retirement rarely meets people's expectations. When that is the case, I think perhaps those who always said they'll work their asses off and enjoy shit when they retire feel pretty disappointed and regretful. Sure, they can afford a bigger house and more travel... but what about all those years behind them when they felt better, everyone around them were energetic, etc? Sacrificing 50 years of your prime to putting your head down and working your ass off for too many hours just because of this fantasy of being able to kick back on a beach for 20 years when you're old while probably dealing with various medical issues and declining mental abilities seems like a pretty lopsided deal.

I don't agree with any of this.

A majority of folks are too troubled by medical conditions and aches and pains? A majority?
Life expectancy is at an all time high. People are living healthier lifestyles.

Retirement rarely meets peoples expectations? Rarely?
I disagree.

All the old people my parents and all of their friends and relatives certainly seem to, and so do the stats related to use of medications and the healthcare system by seniors. Remember, we all die. Getting old IS a decline in health and energy necessarily. It's worse for some than others of course. Sometimes MUCH worse. But In all cases, it is the slow decline toward death, obviously. So yeah, working too hard to take in the good stuff when younger (not talking about you) for 50 years in order to be rich for 20 when you're old doesn't make too much sense IMHO. Recall that I'm not saying the alternative is to not save for retirement or to work until you're 75 (though i know many people who WANT to do that).

For the record, if you're only working 50 hours a week, you really aren't part of the problem Speedy. And again, I'm talking about the work culture in America, and what is considered most important in American society compared to others. Not about out Joe Schmoe's overtime schedule.

Retirement vs the rest of your life before it aside, I'm actually more thinking of stuff like this (below), as well as the American attitudes towards what success means, stigmas about certain jobs, biases towards stay-at-home moms and child care programs, etc etc.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2013/08/13/paid-time-off-forget-about-it-a-report-looks-at-how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries/

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/small-business/openforum/articles/how-more-vacation-time-can-increase-productivity-1/

SPEEDY MCCREADY

PJ_Soul said:

SPEEDY MCCREADY said:

PJ_Soul said:

I just think it seems odd to "save up" relaxation and fun and calm during the prime of their lives for a time in the future when in reality, the majority of folks are too troubled by medical conditions and aches and pains to really be able to feel free, when their friends and family are starting to drop dead around them, and when their kids have other shit to do because they are full grown adults.

Apparently, retirement rarely meets people's expectations. When that is the case, I think perhaps those who always said they'll work their asses off and enjoy shit when they retire feel pretty disappointed and regretful. Sure, they can afford a bigger house and more travel... but what about all those years behind them when they felt better, everyone around them were energetic, etc? Sacrificing 50 years of your prime to putting your head down and working your ass off for too many hours just because of this fantasy of being able to kick back on a beach for 20 years when you're old while probably dealing with various medical issues and declining mental abilities seems like a pretty lopsided deal.

I don't agree with any of this.

A majority of folks are too troubled by medical conditions and aches and pains? A majority?
Life expectancy is at an all time high. People are living healthier lifestyles.

Retirement rarely meets peoples expectations? Rarely?
I disagree.

All the old people my parents and all of their friends and relatives certainly seem to, and so do the stats related to use of medications and the healthcare system by seniors.

For the record, if you're only working 50 hours a week, you really aren't part of the problem Speedy. And again, I'm talking about the work culture in America, and what is considered most important in American society compared to others. Not about out Joe Schmoe's overtime schedule.
I'm more thinking of stuff like this (below), as well as the American attitudes towards what success means, stigmas about certain jobs, biases towards stay-at-home moms and child care programs, etc etc.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2013/08/13/paid-time-off-forget-about-it-a-report-looks-at-how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries/

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/small-business/openforum/articles/how-more-vacation-time-can-increase-productivity-1/

Yeah I mentioned earlier where the American vacation time off doesn't compare with the Europeans. Is this why the Europeans are more productive? Or is it because the American work ethic sucks?

Show up 20 minutes late
Take their mandatory breaks
Bitch the whole time while at work
Leave 20 minutes early

PJ_Soul

:think: Maybe everyone acts like that because they don't stop to smell the roses enough. Makes them cranky and uncooperative.
(Honestly I have never experienced that kind of work ethic in Canada... i mean, there is always a dud here and there, but generally I have never seen that kind of behaviour from staff at a job).

SPEEDY MCCREADY

PJ_Soul said:

:think: Maybe everyone acts like that because they don't stop to smell the roses enough. Makes them cranky and uncooperative.
(Honestly I have never experienced that kind of work ethic in Canada... i mean, there is always a dud here and there, but generally I have never seen that kind of behaviour from staff at a job).

I deal with that type of behavior all day, every day. I truly do. I could go on and on with some of the behavior I see, visiting 10-15 different businesses on any given day.

PJ_Soul

That blows....
My job allows modified work hours, good sick leave benefits, and much better than average vacation days (I get 6 weeks), and we don't experience this attitude. Maybe that's why?? Your colleagues sound like they are acting out a serious morale problem at your company or in your industry.

PJSiren

PJ_Soul said:

That blows....
My job allows modified work hours, good sick leave benefits, and much better than average vacation days (I get 6 weeks), and we don't experience this attitude. Maybe that's why?? Your colleagues sound like they are acting out a serious morale problem at your company or in your industry.

6 weeks of vacation??? HOLY SHIT! I've never heard of such a thing! At my old job it took me 4 years to earn 3 weeks...and that was the max...