Confront, Combat and Defeat Anti-Semitism in Every Form

Time for an opposing view....

Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 10:35 am

For decades, the American Studies Association has labored in well-deserved obscurity. No longer. It's now made a name for itself by voting to boycott Israeli universities, accusing them of denying academic and human rights to Palestinians.

Given that Israel has a profoundly democratic political system, the freest press in the Middle East, a fiercely independent judiciary and astonishing religious and racial diversity within its universities, including affirmative action for Arab students, the charge is rather strange.

Made more so when you consider the state of human rights in Israel's neighborhood. As we speak, Syria's government is dropping "barrel bombs" filled with nails, shrapnel and other instruments of terror on its own cities. Where is the ASA boycott of Syria?

And of Iran, which hangs political, religious and even sexual dissidents and has no academic freedom at all? Or Egypt, where Christians are being openly persecuted? Or Turkey, Saudi Arabia or, for that matter, massively repressive China and Russia?

Which makes obvious that the ASA boycott has nothing to do with human rights. It's an exercise in radical chic, giving marginalized academics a frisson of pretend anti-colonialism, seasoned with a dose of edgy anti-Semitism.

Don't tell me this is merely about Zionism. The ruse is transparent. Israel is the world's only Jewish state. To apply to the state of the Jews a double standard that you apply to none other, to judge one people in a way you judge no other, to single out that one people for condemnation and isolation — is to engage in a gross act of discrimination.

And discrimination against Jews has a name. It's called anti-Semitism.


Former Harvard President Larry Summers called the ASA actions "anti-Semitic in their effect if not necessarily in their intent." I choose to be less polite. The intent is clear: to incite hatred for the largest — and only sovereign — Jewish community on earth.

What to do? Facing a similar (British) academic boycott of Israelis seven years ago, Alan Dershowitz and Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Weinberg wrote an open letter declaring that, for the purposes of any anti-Israel boycott, they are to be considered Israelis.

Meaning: You discriminate against Israelis? Fine. Include us out. We will have nothing to do with you.

Thousands of other academics added their signatures to the Dershowitz/Weinberg letter. It was the perfect in-kind response. Boycott the boycotters, with contempt.

But academia isn't the only home for such prejudice. Throughout the cultural world, the Israel boycott movement is growing. It's become fashionable for musicians, actors, writers and performers of all kinds to ostentatiously cleanse themselves of Israel and Israelis.

The example of the tuxedoed set has spread to the more coarse and unkempt anti-Semites, such as the thugs who a few years ago disrupted London performances of the Jerusalem Quartet and the Israeli Philharmonic.

In this sea of easy and open bigotry, an unusual man has made an unusual statement. Russian by birth, European by residence, Evgeny Kissin is arguably the world's greatest piano virtuoso. He is also a Jew of conviction. Deeply distressed by Israel's treatment in the cultural world around him, Kissin went beyond the Dershowitz/Weinberg stance of asking to be considered an Israeli. On Dec. 7, he became one, defiantly.

Upon taking the oath of Israeli citizenship in Jerusalem, he declared: "I am a Jew, Israel is a Jewish state. ... Israel's case is my case, Israel's enemies are my enemies, and I do not want to be spared the troubles which Israeli musicians encounter when they represent the Jewish state beyond its borders."

Full disclosure: I have a personal connection with Kissin. For the last two years, I've worked to bring him to Washington to perform for Pro Musica Hebraica, a nonprofit organization (founded by my wife and me) dedicated to reviving lost and forgotten Jewish classical music. We succeeded. On Feb. 24, Kissin will be performing at the Kennedy Center Concert Hall masterpieces of Eastern European Jewish music, his first U.S. appearance as an Israeli.

The persistence of anti-Semitism, that most ancient of poisons, is one of history's great mysteries. Even the shame of the Holocaust proved no antidote. It provided but a temporary respite. Anti-Semitism is back. Alas, a new generation must learn to confront it.

How? How to answer the thugs, physical and intellectual, who single out Jews for attack? The best way, the most dignified way, is to do like Dershowitz, Weinberg or Kissin.

Express your solidarity. Sign the open letter or write your own. Don the yellow star and wear it proudly.

Charles Krauthammer is a columnist for the Washington Post.

http://www.postbulletin.com/opinion/charles-krauthammer-confront-combat-and-defeat-anti-semitism-in-every/article_32c6b529-2b86-578d-ba20-a6fc6e84f5b7.html
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Comments

  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,605
    No thank you. I prefer to stand with those who vehemently disagree with a govermental policy that is similar to apartheid. You wish to call that anti semitic? well I support an americans right to free speech.

    I cannot condone the actions by the israeli government.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat said:

    No thank you. I prefer to stand with those who vehemently disagree with a govermental policy that is similar to apartheid. You wish to call that anti semitic? well I support an americans right to free speech.

    I cannot condone the actions by the israeli government.

    completely agreed.

    those who stood by aparteid south africa have been judged harshly by history.

    same will be said about those who stand by this criminal israeli government.

    and guess what, america was on the wrong side of both of these issues.

    is must be easy to have the trump card of calling everyone critical of the israeli government's policies an anti-semite.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,769
    edited January 2014
    *
    Post edited by Bentleyspop on
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,769

    Time for an opposing view....

    Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 10:35 am

    For decades, the American Studies Association has labored in well-deserved obscurity. No longer. It's now made a name for itself by voting to boycott Israeli universities, accusing them of denying academic and human rights to Palestinians.

    Given that Israel has a profoundly democratic political system, the freest press in the Middle East, a fiercely independent judiciary and astonishing religious and racial diversity within its universities, including affirmative action for Arab students, the charge is rather strange.

    Made more so when you consider the state of human rights in Israel's neighborhood. As we speak, Syria's government is dropping "barrel bombs" filled with nails, shrapnel and other instruments of terror on its own cities. Where is the ASA boycott of Syria?

    And of Iran, which hangs political, religious and even sexual dissidents and has no academic freedom at all? Or Egypt, where Christians are being openly persecuted? Or Turkey, Saudi Arabia or, for that matter, massively repressive China and Russia?

    Which makes obvious that the ASA boycott has nothing to do with human rights. It's an exercise in radical chic, giving marginalized academics a frisson of pretend anti-colonialism, seasoned with a dose of edgy anti-Semitism.

    Don't tell me this is merely about Zionism. The ruse is transparent. Israel is the world's only Jewish state. To apply to the state of the Jews a double standard that you apply to none other, to judge one people in a way you judge no other, to single out that one people for condemnation and isolation — is to engage in a gross act of discrimination.

    And discrimination against Jews has a name. It's called anti-Semitism.


    Former Harvard President Larry Summers called the ASA actions "anti-Semitic in their effect if not necessarily in their intent." I choose to be less polite. The intent is clear: to incite hatred for the largest — and only sovereign — Jewish community on earth.

    What to do? Facing a similar (British) academic boycott of Israelis seven years ago, Alan Dershowitz and Nobel Prize-winning physicist Steven Weinberg wrote an open letter declaring that, for the purposes of any anti-Israel boycott, they are to be considered Israelis.

    Meaning: You discriminate against Israelis? Fine. Include us out. We will have nothing to do with you.

    Thousands of other academics added their signatures to the Dershowitz/Weinberg letter. It was the perfect in-kind response. Boycott the boycotters, with contempt.

    But academia isn't the only home for such prejudice. Throughout the cultural world, the Israel boycott movement is growing. It's become fashionable for musicians, actors, writers and performers of all kinds to ostentatiously cleanse themselves of Israel and Israelis.

    The example of the tuxedoed set has spread to the more coarse and unkempt anti-Semites, such as the thugs who a few years ago disrupted London performances of the Jerusalem Quartet and the Israeli Philharmonic.

    In this sea of easy and open bigotry, an unusual man has made an unusual statement. Russian by birth, European by residence, Evgeny Kissin is arguably the world's greatest piano virtuoso. He is also a Jew of conviction. Deeply distressed by Israel's treatment in the cultural world around him, Kissin went beyond the Dershowitz/Weinberg stance of asking to be considered an Israeli. On Dec. 7, he became one, defiantly.

    Upon taking the oath of Israeli citizenship in Jerusalem, he declared: "I am a Jew, Israel is a Jewish state. ... Israel's case is my case, Israel's enemies are my enemies, and I do not want to be spared the troubles which Israeli musicians encounter when they represent the Jewish state beyond its borders."

    Full disclosure: I have a personal connection with Kissin. For the last two years, I've worked to bring him to Washington to perform for Pro Musica Hebraica, a nonprofit organization (founded by my wife and me) dedicated to reviving lost and forgotten Jewish classical music. We succeeded. On Feb. 24, Kissin will be performing at the Kennedy Center Concert Hall masterpieces of Eastern European Jewish music, his first U.S. appearance as an Israeli.

    The persistence of anti-Semitism, that most ancient of poisons, is one of history's great mysteries. Even the shame of the Holocaust proved no antidote. It provided but a temporary respite. Anti-Semitism is back. Alas, a new generation must learn to confront it.

    How? How to answer the thugs, physical and intellectual, who single out Jews for attack? The best way, the most dignified way, is to do like Dershowitz, Weinberg or Kissin.

    Express your solidarity. Sign the open letter or write your own. Don the yellow star and wear it proudly.

    Charles Krauthammer is a columnist for the Washington Post.

    http://www.postbulletin.com/opinion/charles-krauthammer-confront-combat-and-defeat-anti-semitism-in-every/article_32c6b529-2b86-578d-ba20-a6fc6e84f5b7.html

  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    edited January 2014
    funny how krauthammer takes this postion on israel, yet he is not so fast to defend other minoritiy groups in his own country.

    i am sure if he calls me an antisemite for my criticism of the israeli government and it's policies, i can call him a racist because of his support for cutting programs that assist the poor and minorities.
    Post edited by gimmesometruth27 on
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • The title of the thread has been changed.

    I agree with the thread title.

    I also agree that anti-semitism should not be thrown at people when they question ruthless Israeli policies that leave much to be desired.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,769

    The title of the thread has been changed.

    I agree with the thread title.

    I also agree that anti-semitism should not be thrown at people when they question ruthless Israeli policies that leave much to be desired.

    Why would the title of the thread been changed?

    I can tell you that as the original poster that the title of the thread has not been changed.
    I copied and pasted the title of the article as it was posted in the postbulletin.
    Check the link I posted if you think the title was changed.
  • The title of the thread has been changed.

    I agree with the thread title.

    I also agree that anti-semitism should not be thrown at people when they question ruthless Israeli policies that leave much to be desired.

    Why would the title of the thread been changed?

    I can tell you that as the original poster that the title of the thread has not been changed.
    I copied and pasted the title of the article as it was posted in the postbulletin.
    Check the link I posted if you think the title was changed.
    Sorry. You are right.

    The first line in the first post was so strong that subconsciously I thought of this thread as 'that' thread.

    Again... apologies for my confusion.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    "To apply to the state of the Jews a double standard that you apply to none other, to judge one people in a way you judge no other, to single out that one people for condemnation and isolation — is to engage in a gross act of discrimination."

    Interesting piece of gibberish from this Jewish neo-Conservative.
    What double standard is being applied? Have Iran or Syria been engaged in a 60 year campaign of ethnic cleansing and Apartheid?
  • Byrnzie said:

    "To apply to the state of the Jews a double standard that you apply to none other, to judge one people in a way you judge no other, to single out that one people for condemnation and isolation — is to engage in a gross act of discrimination."

    Interesting piece of gibberish from this Jewish neo-Conservative.
    What double standard is being applied? Have Iran or Syria been engaged in a 60 year campaign of ethnic cleansing and Apartheid?

    If he replaced Palestinians with Jews in that quote, then that would be more accurate. One of the tenets of Zionism has to be hypocrisy.
  • I find it fascinating the shift of support that was once for Israel and now for Palestenians.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037

    I find it fascinating the shift of support that was once for Israel and now for Palestenians.

    The World has wized up a lot. Just need the mainstream media, and American politicians, to catch up.

  • Byrnzie said:

    I find it fascinating the shift of support that was once for Israel and now for Palestenians.

    The World has wized up a lot. Just need the mainstream media, and American politicians, to catch up.

    Can I ask how it has wized up? I am also informed so I'd like to hear your view on it.

  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    edited January 2014

    Byrnzie said:

    I find it fascinating the shift of support that was once for Israel and now for Palestenians.

    The World has wized up a lot. Just need the mainstream media, and American politicians, to catch up.

    Can I ask how it has wized up? I am also informed so I'd like to hear your view on it.

    you're also informed, then whats your view on it? (I'd like to hear your view on it, I don't come across many informed people)
    Post edited by Idris on
  • My ultimate view is there will never be a resolution until the people in the Middle East get over their religious hate towards each other. Which will never happen. I am however more interested in the change of support from Israel to Palestinians in our culture. It seems like it started a few years ago and now there are many sympathizers. I am just curious if it has been the way the news has portrayed it in recent years, or if it is because it's the in thing to say now, or if people have actually made informed decisions on their own.
  • My ultimate view is there will never be a resolution until the people in the Middle East get over their religious hate towards each other. Which will never happen. I am however more interested in the change of support from Israel to Palestinians in our culture. It seems like it started a few years ago and now there are many sympathizers. I am just curious if it has been the way the news has portrayed it in recent years, or if it is because it's the in thing to say now, or if people have actually made informed decisions on their own.

    it is not the way the media portrays it, because they absolutely do not cover it in the states because aipac is too comfortable wih people in high places. i learned about it because i had an australian girlfriend who was very knowledgable of the situation. she had me start reading newspapers from other countries, and from there i began to do my own research. i have learned a lot, on this very forum, from people in other countries on both sides of this issue. the way i see it, there will never, ever, be peace there until israel stops stealing land and building illegal settlements on that land. the embargo was very cruel to the palestinians. it is hard to be free when you have a boot on your throat. and there will never be peace there until a president of the united states will not be up the arse of the israeli prime minister. there will never be peace until an american administration will not use its automatic veto power to veto motions critical of israel at the UN. we have a chance with obama and bibi not seeing eye to eye, but obama is too conservative to make any real waves in that conflict. such a damn shame.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • and just to add to my prior post, that relationship with that aussie did not work out. but she did open my eyes to the situation over there. before i met her, i sided with israel, because i was ignorant, and like a good american patriot i thought the way they wanted me to. thanks to her for opening my eyes to this injustice. i learned a lot about life being involved with someone from a different country. i recommend everybody try it at least once.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051

    and just to add to my prior post, that relationship with that aussie did not work out. but she did open my eyes to the situation over there. before i met her, i sided with israel, because i was ignorant, and like a good american patriot i thought the way they wanted me to. thanks to her for opening my eyes to this injustice. i learned a lot about life being involved with someone from a different country. i recommend everybody try it at least once.

    For sure, gimme, whether that involvement be a girl friend, boy friend or any good friend. Having friends from other countries has help me get a different perspective on my own country and a broader sense of the world we all share.

    As for supporting Palestine or Israel- the first time I paid much attention to that situation was when Bob Dylan came out with his "Infidels" record. I figured a) it's Bob so it must be good, b) he is (or at least was?) very passionate about his feeling toward Israel and c) I didn't have much other information to go on. I also had a friend who was passionately pro- Israel so I figured that was the way to go. Over the years I've become more inclined to feel neutral about this conflict because there have been injustices on both sides. My basic feeling is that this is another form of endless war, that neither side will ever compromise (not that I necessarily support compromising). It's a terrible situation that has had little hope for peace. I hope I'm wrong about that..

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianlux said:

    and just to add to my prior post, that relationship with that aussie did not work out. but she did open my eyes to the situation over there. before i met her, i sided with israel, because i was ignorant, and like a good american patriot i thought the way they wanted me to. thanks to her for opening my eyes to this injustice. i learned a lot about life being involved with someone from a different country. i recommend everybody try it at least once.

    For sure, gimme, whether that involvement be a girl friend, boy friend or any good friend. Having friends from other countries has help me get a different perspective on my own country and a broader sense of the world we all share.

    As for supporting Palestine or Israel- the first time I paid much attention to that situation was when Bob Dylan came out with his "Infidels" record. I figured a) it's Bob so it must be good, b) he is (or at least was?) very passionate about his feeling toward Israel and c) I didn't have much other information to go on. I also had a friend who was passionately pro- Israel so I figured that was the way to go. Over the years I've become more inclined to feel neutral about this conflict because there have been injustices on both sides. My basic feeling is that this is another form of endless war, that neither side will ever compromise (not that I necessarily support compromising). It's a terrible situation that has had little hope for peace. I hope I'm wrong about that..

    its a big world out there, but places like this and the internet make it feel much smaller. having friends from other countries and communicating with them on a regular basis keeps me honest. it keeps my eyes open so that i am not blinded to the plight of other people. it makes me be less americacentric, if that is even a word.... it is not all about me, it is all about us. this world we live in is a crazy place. maybe one day the saner angels will win the day and we can have peace for everybody.

    you say there are injustices on both sides. the injustices committed by palestinian extremists or islamic militants are a direct result and a direct consequence of israel's stealing of land, displacing palestinians, killing of palestinians, destroying and burning palestinian olive groves, destroying the palestinian economy, the blockade, etc. all of the injiustices from "the other side" are a direct result of the israeli goverment's policies. one begets the other. israel has the power to make peace, but they do not want to. why would they give up the land that they have acquired? an economic boycott of israel and isolating them at the UN are the next steps, but unfortunately i do not think this will ever happen in my lifetime.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I don't even understand anti-Semitism.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • brianlux said:

    and just to add to my prior post, that relationship with that aussie did not work out. but she did open my eyes to the situation over there. before i met her, i sided with israel, because i was ignorant, and like a good american patriot i thought the way they wanted me to. thanks to her for opening my eyes to this injustice. i learned a lot about life being involved with someone from a different country. i recommend everybody try it at least once.

    For sure, gimme, whether that involvement be a girl friend, boy friend or any good friend. Having friends from other countries has help me get a different perspective on my own country and a broader sense of the world we all share.

    As for supporting Palestine or Israel- the first time I paid much attention to that situation was when Bob Dylan came out with his "Infidels" record. I figured a) it's Bob so it must be good, b) he is (or at least was?) very passionate about his feeling toward Israel and c) I didn't have much other information to go on. I also had a friend who was passionately pro- Israel so I figured that was the way to go. Over the years I've become more inclined to feel neutral about this conflict because there have been injustices on both sides. My basic feeling is that this is another form of endless war, that neither side will ever compromise (not that I necessarily support compromising). It's a terrible situation that has had little hope for peace. I hope I'm wrong about that..

    I have never heard of infidels, but I do know these lines by bob....

    How does it feel / To be without a home / Like a complete unknown



  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    edited January 2014

    brianlux said:

    and just to add to my prior post, that relationship with that aussie did not work out. but she did open my eyes to the situation over there. before i met her, i sided with israel, because i was ignorant, and like a good american patriot i thought the way they wanted me to. thanks to her for opening my eyes to this injustice. i learned a lot about life being involved with someone from a different country. i recommend everybody try it at least once.

    For sure, gimme, whether that involvement be a girl friend, boy friend or any good friend. Having friends from other countries has help me get a different perspective on my own country and a broader sense of the world we all share.

    As for supporting Palestine or Israel- the first time I paid much attention to that situation was when Bob Dylan came out with his "Infidels" record. I figured a) it's Bob so it must be good, b) he is (or at least was?) very passionate about his feeling toward Israel and c) I didn't have much other information to go on. I also had a friend who was passionately pro- Israel so I figured that was the way to go. Over the years I've become more inclined to feel neutral about this conflict because there have been injustices on both sides. My basic feeling is that this is another form of endless war, that neither side will ever compromise (not that I necessarily support compromising). It's a terrible situation that has had little hope for peace. I hope I'm wrong about that..

    I have never heard of infidels, but I do know these lines by bob....

    How does it feel / To be without a home / Like a complete unknown



    The central song on Dylan's "Infidels" was "Neighborhood Bully" (see lyrics below). That song was a defense for Israel against the thrashing Israel was getting from the press at the time. I'm not sure Bob would feel the same way today but then what does it matter? We should all form our own opinions.

    From what I've read, I'm guessing you're right Gimme, it sounds like much of the injustice going on is provoked by Israel. At the same time, when looking at the history of that country, I wonder how much of it is an ingrained reaction to many years of oppression. But perhaps the pendulum has swung too far again.

    By the way, regardless of the religious/political content, "Infidels" is an excellent album- how can you go wrong with this line up?:


    Bob Dylan – guitar, harmonica, keyboards, vocals, production
    Alan Clark – keyboards
    Sly Dunbar – drums, percussion
    Clydie King – vocals on "Union Sundown"
    Mark Knopfler – guitar, production
    Robbie Shakespeare – bass guitar
    Mick Taylor – guitar



    Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
    His enemies say he’s on their land
    They got him outnumbered about a million to one
    He got no place to escape to, no place to run
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully just lives to survive
    He’s criticized and condemned for being alive
    He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
    He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
    He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
    Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
    He’s always on trial for just being born
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
    Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
    Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
    The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
    That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
    ’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
    And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    He got no allies to really speak of
    What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
    He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
    But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
    They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
    Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
    They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
    Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
    He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
    In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
    No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
    He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
    Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What’s anybody indebted to him for?
    Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war
    Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
    They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What has he done to wear so many scars?
    Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
    Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
    Running out the clock, time standing still
    Neighborhood bully



    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianlux said:

    brianlux said:

    and just to add to my prior post, that relationship with that aussie did not work out. but she did open my eyes to the situation over there. before i met her, i sided with israel, because i was ignorant, and like a good american patriot i thought the way they wanted me to. thanks to her for opening my eyes to this injustice. i learned a lot about life being involved with someone from a different country. i recommend everybody try it at least once.

    For sure, gimme, whether that involvement be a girl friend, boy friend or any good friend. Having friends from other countries has help me get a different perspective on my own country and a broader sense of the world we all share.

    As for supporting Palestine or Israel- the first time I paid much attention to that situation was when Bob Dylan came out with his "Infidels" record. I figured a) it's Bob so it must be good, b) he is (or at least was?) very passionate about his feeling toward Israel and c) I didn't have much other information to go on. I also had a friend who was passionately pro- Israel so I figured that was the way to go. Over the years I've become more inclined to feel neutral about this conflict because there have been injustices on both sides. My basic feeling is that this is another form of endless war, that neither side will ever compromise (not that I necessarily support compromising). It's a terrible situation that has had little hope for peace. I hope I'm wrong about that..

    I have never heard of infidels, but I do know these lines by bob....

    How does it feel / To be without a home / Like a complete unknown



    The central song on Dylan's "Infidels" was "Neighborhood Bully" (see lyrics below). That song was a defense for Israel against the thrashing Israel was getting from the press at the time. I'm not sure Bob would feel the same way today but then what does it matter? We should all form our own opinions.

    From what I've read, I'm guessing you're right Gimme, it sounds like much of the injustice going on is provoked by Israel. At the same time, when looking at the history of that country, I wonder how much of it is an ingrained reaction to many years of oppression. But perhaps the pendulum has swung too far again.

    By the way, regardless of the religious/political content, "Infidels" is an excellent album- how can you go wrong with this line up?:


    Bob Dylan – guitar, harmonica, keyboards, vocals, production
    Alan Clark – keyboards
    Sly Dunbar – drums, percussion
    Clydie King – vocals on "Union Sundown"
    Mark Knopfler – guitar, production
    Robbie Shakespeare – bass guitar
    Mick Taylor – guitar



    Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
    His enemies say he’s on their land
    They got him outnumbered about a million to one
    He got no place to escape to, no place to run
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully just lives to survive
    He’s criticized and condemned for being alive
    He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
    He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
    He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
    Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
    He’s always on trial for just being born
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
    Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
    Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
    The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
    That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
    ’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
    And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    He got no allies to really speak of
    What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
    He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
    But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
    They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
    Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
    They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
    Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
    He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
    In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
    No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
    He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
    Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What’s anybody indebted to him for?
    Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war
    Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
    They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What has he done to wear so many scars?
    Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
    Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
    Running out the clock, time standing still
    Neighborhood bully



    It seems like the lyrical version of Krauthammer's letter. Its the classic hasbara argument. Even for artistic merit, I am going to have to pass on anything Bob for me. Bob Dylan, Soundgarden, pixies, etc. don't know and for them it maybe easy for them to not want to know. I can not respect that. I want them to come to the other side of the wall, to walk in the rubble of demolished homes, to pick out the toys and pieces of homework left behind by children who are now landless and robbed of any similitude of a normal life. Maybe they can visit the young boy not far from a relative's house who was paralyzed because he was shot with the more "humane" rubber bullet. No bob, not the "neighborhood bully." Why would anyone think that.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051



    It seems like the lyrical version of Krauthammer's letter. Its the classic hasbara argument. Even for artistic merit, I am going to have to pass on anything Bob for me. Bob Dylan, Soundgarden, pixies, etc. don't know and for them it maybe easy for them to not want to know. I can not respect that. I want them to come to the other side of the wall, to walk in the rubble of demolished homes, to pick out the toys and pieces of homework left behind by children who are now landless and robbed of any similitude of a normal life. Maybe they can visit the young boy not far from a relative's house who was paralyzed because he was shot with the more "humane" rubber bullet. No bob, not the "neighborhood bully." Why would anyone think that.

    A few things worth remembering-
    - Dylan wrote those words 31 years ago.
    -and this: "Here's the thing with me and the religious thing. This is the flat-out truth: I find the religiosity and philosophy in the music. I don't find it anywhere else...I don't adhere to rabbis, preachers, evangelists, all of that. I've learned more from the songs than I've learned from any of this kind of entity." (Gates, David, October 6, 1997. "Dylan Revisited". Newsweek.)

    And of course the idea that we should make up our own minds and not let big name personalities make them up for us. I'm not taking sides with Israel here, I'm just pointing out that this picture is bigger when put into historical perspective.

    War, religious fanaticism, nationalism, greed, earth abuse. It's all part of the same fucked up human condition.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • The whole situation just starting from 1948 is almost impossible to pick one side and say they are right. Both sides have been through and put each other through hell, neither one with clean hands. It's a paradox, if you truly support one side, you are ignoring the actions they have done. An example would be Israel should give back the West Band. The reply is if the Arab nations didn't fully mobilize their collective military on the boarder for a preemptive strike the 6 day war wouldn't have happened. Ect ect.
  • The whole situation just starting from 1948 is almost impossible to pick one side and say they are right. Both sides have been through and put each other through hell, neither one with clean hands. It's a paradox, if you truly support one side, you are ignoring the actions they have done. An example would be Israel should give back the West Band. The reply is if the Arab nations didn't fully mobilize their collective military on the boarder for a preemptive strike the 6 day war wouldn't have happened. Ect ect.

    the rules or war dictate that you should give back the land you aquire when the war is over. when will israel do this? they keep stealing more and more land. they are the aggressors in this situation. the militants who support the palestinian cause are reacting to that, not initially acting. israel is breaking international law. the blame lies with them. end of story. if you can not see that, then you have no clear grasp of the situation.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • in addition, israel has the greatest air force in the region, and possibly the world. they have nukes. the palestinians have none of that. nobody else in the region has any wmds on the scale that israel has, except for pakistan. israel is bullying because they have the best defenses and they have the us in their corner. if the us refuses to allow what israel is doing to the palestinians then the israelis lose their power. we are propping israel up and supporting what they are doing, until we stop supporting israel nothing will change.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • The Arab nations refused to recognize Israel and called for its destruction. Before the Six Day war Egypt kicked all UN peacekeepers out of their country. Israel did what they felt was right to protect their country. I can't fault them. Lots of boarders changed after after WWII so the argument of the rules of war is not very strong. I have decided a long time ago I personally support neither side. So simply, anything you bring up in favor of Israel or Palestine won't persuade me. Again, looking at the situation without a horse in the race, I look at the situation as it is. I can make a strong argument for both sides.
  • israel is breaking international law by expanding settlements and stealing land. the UN has voted to condemn them multiple times and the united states uses its permanent veto power at the UN to veto those resolutions. the palestinians are trying to be recognized as their own state at the UN because israel and the united states will not budge in their positions. israel is wholly responsible for the situation we have right now and the untied states is complicit.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • "Wholly responsible" You see that is the reason the Middle East will never have peace. Your biased judgment has rendered you blinders so you can't even acknowledge the faults of the side you take. It's pointless to try and have a conversation with someone that refuses to see the other sides perspective. I wish you well.
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