Teachers in Ontario are far from overworked and underpaid. They do getting passing grades here in Ontario at being the number 1 whiners, along with the police and firefighters ... All of which are extremely well paid occupations.
How do you figure they aren't underpaid? I'm just curious as to what you think is a reasonable salary for teachers? I think the base salary should be at least $60K, and go up from there as they accrue seniority, up to a max of, say, $85K. I think that would be fair salary for what we expect of teachers, considering their roles in society, the pressures they work with, the competition that we want to encourage to get good teachers in there, and their ever-increasing education levels (most if not all teachers in Canada need their Masters plus PDP now, unless you're talking very remote areas). I don't think they are necessarily overworked, depending on the teacher. Bad teachers aren't. Great teachers definitely are. I think they are DEFINITELY undervalued (as shown by your post, and thinking that they earn an amount equal to their responsibilities and their education). Again, people like to take the lowest common denominator (terrible teachers, or take when their union leaders say and apply it to the teachers themselves) and apply that to all. It's so unfair.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Teachers in Ontario are far from overworked and underpaid. They do getting passing grades here in Ontario at being the number 1 whiners, along with the police and firefighters ... All of which are extremely well paid occupations.
How do you figure they aren't underpaid? I'm just curious as to what you think is a reasonable salary for teachers? I think the base salary should be at least $60K, and go up from there as they accrue seniority, up to a max of, say, $85K. I think that would be fair salary for what we expect of teachers, considering their roles in society, the pressures they work with, the competition that we want to encourage to get good teachers in there, and their ever-increasing education levels (most if not all teachers in Canada need their Masters plus PDP now, unless you're talking very remote areas). I don't think they are necessarily overworked, depending on the teacher. Bad teachers aren't. Great teachers definitely are.
If the Chicago Public School Teachers were paid according to how the CHILDREN match up across the nation...
As far as reading and math skills?
The Chicago Public School Teachers would make $1.35 an hour.
But instead, they are the 2nd highest paid in the nation.
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Teachers in Ontario are far from overworked and underpaid. They do getting passing grades here in Ontario at being the number 1 whiners, along with the police and firefighters ... All of which are extremely well paid occupations.
How do you figure they aren't underpaid? I'm just curious as to what you think is a reasonable salary for teachers? I think the base salary should be at least $60K, and go up from there as they accrue seniority, up to a max of, say, $85K. I think that would be fair salary for what we expect of teachers, considering their roles in society, the pressures they work with, the competition that we want to encourage to get good teachers in there, and their ever-increasing education levels (most if not all teachers in Canada need their Masters plus PDP now, unless you're talking very remote areas). I don't think they are necessarily overworked, depending on the teacher. Bad teachers aren't. Great teachers definitely are.
If the Chicago Public School Teachers were paid according to how the CHILDREN match up across the nation...
As far as reading and math skills?
The Chicago Public School Teachers would make $1.35 an hour.
But instead, they are the 2nd highest paid in the nation.
If the salaries were higher, then the competition for teaching jobs would be tougher, and teachers would be better. Low salaries = shittier teachers. You won't get better teachers until they make the profession worthwhile for those who would be the best teachers. That is what makes sense. But it seems like people are waiting around for poorly paid teachers to get better. That's not how it works.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Teachers in Ontario are far from overworked and underpaid. They do getting passing grades here in Ontario at being the number 1 whiners, along with the police and firefighters ... All of which are extremely well paid occupations.
How do you figure they aren't underpaid? I'm just curious as to what you think is a reasonable salary for teachers? I think the base salary should be at least $60K, and go up from there as they accrue seniority, up to a max of, say, $85K. I think that would be fair salary for what we expect of teachers, considering their roles in society, the pressures they work with, the competition that we want to encourage to get good teachers in there, and their ever-increasing education levels (most if not all teachers in Canada need their Masters plus PDP now, unless you're talking very remote areas). I don't think they are necessarily overworked, depending on the teacher. Bad teachers aren't. Great teachers definitely are.
If the Chicago Public School Teachers were paid according to how the CHILDREN match up across the nation...
As far as reading and math skills?
The Chicago Public School Teachers would make $1.35 an hour.
But instead, they are the 2nd highest paid in the nation.
Yet they'll get on tv at contract time and tell everyone how underpaid they are, and do it with a straight face.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
How do you figure they aren't underpaid? I'm just curious as to what you think is a reasonable salary for teachers? I think the base salary should be at least $60K, and go up from there as they accrue seniority, up to a max of, say, $85K. I think that would be fair salary for what we expect of teachers, considering their roles in society, the pressures they work with, the competition that we want to encourage to get good teachers in there, and their ever-increasing education levels (most if not all teachers in Canada need their Masters plus PDP now, unless you're talking very remote areas). I don't think they are necessarily overworked, depending on the teacher. Bad teachers aren't. Great teachers definitely are.
If the Chicago Public School Teachers were paid according to how the CHILDREN match up across the nation...
As far as reading and math skills?
The Chicago Public School Teachers would make $1.35 an hour.
But instead, they are the 2nd highest paid in the nation.
Yet they'll get on tv at contract time and tell everyone how underpaid they are, and do it with a straight face.
They probably are still underpaid though ... How much are they paid now?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't know how better a job can be ... Teachers here in Ontario at the top of the pay grid get in excess 85000, 12 weeks off and all statutory holidays + 6 PA Days a year ... And it's not even an 8 hour sour work day, closer to 6 ... Yeah tough life, how do they survive.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Teachers in Ontario are far from overworked and underpaid. They do getting passing grades here in Ontario at being the number 1 whiners, along with the police and firefighters ... All of which are extremely well paid occupations.
You don't think the police and firefighters should be paid a lot?
Extremely well paid compared to what?
I know of general labourers that make over $100,000 per year- not to take anything away from a general labourer such as a carpenter (my father was one).
What you fail to understand is the fact that public service people cannot simply set the bar for their wages- they have to scratch and kick for them because public tight pants wants them to do the job for nothing.
I wonder if realtors would kick up a fuss if commissions were legislated slightly less than the exorbitant amounts they currently are. Do you think a realtor works really, really hard for their commissions? Throw in their tax benefits and wow... there's a job!
While I'm at it... how about the housing industry which recently exploded here in Canada. Contractors, suppliers and labourers (and the aforementioned realtors) essentially jacked up costs for what they were offering and the profit margins which were then passed on to the consumer.
And your beef is with teachers, policemen, and fire fighters making a reasonable wage (I won't acknowledge what you coined extremely well paid because this is far from general consensus)?
Sorry Lukin... you haven't thought this one out very well. It is this mentality I spoke to earlier: we continually see poorly performing teachers and cops. There is a reason for it: these are unattractive professions that carry significant responsibility without the compensation it probably should. We are not getting the best people for these jobs because they are pounding nails or working in a mine.
I won't be encouraging my son to get into these professions. Would you?
I don't get all the hate for the Teachers , what would you like for your kids teachers that are underpaid & overworked or teachers that feel good about their saleries & professions that give you their all everyday ...Go ahead put your kids in private schools see how much that cost you , a private high school here on Long Island runs you $ 15 to 20 grand a yr .....
I don't know how better a job can be ... Teachers here in Ontario at the top of the pay grid get in excess 85000, 12 weeks off and all statutory holidays + 6 PA Days a year ... And it's not even an 8 hour sour work day, closer to 6 ... Yeah tough life, how do they survive.
I cant do it.
I cant get in to a discussion about the Chicago Public School Teachers.
NOT ON CHRISTMAS EVE!!!!
But ill be back here Thursday.
And we can talk all about the teachers.
And their pay
And their vacations
And their pensions
And how the Chicago Public School children rate the lowest of the low, when it comes to basic math and reading skills.
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
If the salaries were higher, then the competition for teaching jobs would be tougher, and teachers would be better. Low salaries = shittier teachers. You won't get better teachers until they make the profession worthwhile for those who would be the best teachers. That is what makes sense. But it seems like people are waiting around for poorly paid teachers to get better. That's not how it works.
I don't know how better a job can be ... Teachers here in Ontario at the top of the pay grid get in excess 85000, 12 weeks off and all statutory holidays + 6 PA Days a year ... And it's not even an 8 hour sour work day, closer to 6 ... Yeah tough life, how do they survive.
First of all, their days are not closer to 6 hours. All but the VERY worst teachers do some hours of work before and after the school day, so their days are at least 8 hours, and usually longer.
PA days they actually have to go and do something. That's only a day off for the students, not the teachers. Professional development days see teachers doing professional development in most cases.
Everyone should have stat holidays off.
I think that 9 months of what they do is worth $85K. That's a decent top salary, so good for the Ontario teachers. You think they'd have that if they didn't fight for every dollar? Not a chance. But the starting salary is $45K. That's terrible. Should be $60K.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't know how better a job can be ... Teachers here in Ontario at the top of the pay grid get in excess 85000, 12 weeks off and all statutory holidays + 6 PA Days a year ... And it's not even an 8 hour sour work day, closer to 6 ... Yeah tough life, how do they survive.
I cant do it.
I cant get in to a discussion about the Chicago Public School Teachers.
NOT ON CHRISTMAS EVE!!!!
But ill be back here Thursday.
And we can talk all about the teachers.
And their pay
And their vacations
And their pensions
And how the Chicago Public School children rate the lowest of the low, when it comes to basic math and reading skills.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't get all the hate for the Teachers , what would you like for your kids teachers that are underpaid & overworked or teachers that feel good about their saleries & professions that give you their all everyday ...Go ahead put your kids in private schools see how much that cost you , a private high school here on Long Island runs you $ 15 to 20 grand a yr .....
I am also shocked at the hate for teachers coming from some of you. Everyone should stand behind teachers and support EVERYTHING that can be done to improve the conditions of schools, education funding, teachers salaries and resources, professional development, incentives for good teachers (HELLO???), etc. Instead, you anti-unionist/anti-teacher folks just lay all of the blame on the teachers themselves. Speedy, do you not think that there is a reason why Chicago children are scoring so low besides the supposed fact that all the individual teachers suck?? You don't think that government funding, salaries, hiring practices, limited resources, huge class sizes, very poor administration, and fucked up curriculum have anything to do with it??? :fp:
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
They could pay teachers 250000 a year, 4 hour work day, 6 months off and they'd still be unhappy ... Here in Ontario if I had a company I'd hire the marketing department that represents the teachers they've done a wonderful job of selling themselves as hard done by, they someone swamp land in Alaska.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I don't get all the hate for the Teachers , what would you like for your kids teachers that are underpaid & overworked or teachers that feel good about their saleries & professions that give you their all everyday ...Go ahead put your kids in private schools see how much that cost you , a private high school here on Long Island runs you $ 15 to 20 grand a yr .....
I am also shocked at the hate for teachers coming from some of you. Everyone should stand behind teachers and support EVERYTHING that can be done to improve the conditions of schools, education funding, teachers salaries and resources, professional development, incentives for teachers (HELLO???), etc. Instead, you anti-unionist/anti-teacher folks just lay all of the blame on the teachers themselves. Speedy, do you not think that there is a reason why Chicago children are scoring so low besides the supposed fact that all the individual teachers suck?? You don't think that government funding, salaries, hiring practices, limited resources, huge class sizes, very poor administration, and fucked up curriculum have anything to do with it??? :fp:
I don't hate.
Hate is an ugly word.
I just want the Chicago Public School teachers to be held accountable.
If you even mention that to the teachers, they lose their fucking minds.
Accountability?
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I don't get all the hate for the Teachers , what would you like for your kids teachers that are underpaid & overworked or teachers that feel good about their saleries & professions that give you their all everyday ...Go ahead put your kids in private schools see how much that cost you , a private high school here on Long Island runs you $ 15 to 20 grand a yr .....
I am also shocked at the hate for teachers coming from some of you. Everyone should stand behind teachers and support EVERYTHING that can be done to improve the conditions of schools, education funding, teachers salaries and resources, professional development, incentives for teachers (HELLO???), etc. Instead, you anti-unionist/anti-teacher folks just lay all of the blame on the teachers themselves. Speedy, do you not think that there is a reason why Chicago children are scoring so low besides the supposed fact that all the individual teachers suck?? You don't think that government funding, salaries, hiring practices, limited resources, huge class sizes, very poor administration, and fucked up curriculum have anything to do with it??? :fp:
Yeah i don't get it people here make it sound as if teaching a class full of kids is a walk in the park ...Merry xmas to everyone here ..
Teachers in Ontario are far from overworked and underpaid. They do getting passing grades here in Ontario at being the number 1 whiners, along with the police and firefighters ... All of which are extremely well paid occupations.
You don't think the police and firefighters should be paid a lot?
Extremely well paid compared to what?
I know of general labourers that make over $100,000 per year- not to take anything away from a general labourer such as a carpenter (my father was one).
What you fail to understand is the fact that public service people cannot simply set the bar for their wages- they have to scratch and kick for them because public tight pants wants them to do the job for nothing.
I wonder if realtors would kick up a fuss if commissions were legislated slightly less than the exorbitant amounts they currently are. Do you think a realtor works really, really hard for their commissions? Throw in their tax benefits and wow... there's a job!
While I'm at it... how about the housing industry which recently exploded here in Canada. Contractors, suppliers and labourers (and the aforementioned realtors) essentially jacked up costs for what they were offering and the profit margins which were then passed on to the consumer.
And your beef is with teachers, policemen, and fire fighters making a reasonable wage (I won't acknowledge what you coined extremely well paid because this is far from general consensus)?
Sorry Lukin... you haven't thought this one out very well. It is this mentality I spoke to earlier: we continually see poorly performing teachers and cops. There is a reason for it: these are unattractive professions that carry significant responsibility without the compensation it probably should. We are not getting the best people for these jobs because they are pounding nails or working in a mine.
I won't be encouraging my son to get into these professions. Would you?
Exactly.
I work at a university, and am horrified by how often I see smart, hardworking people cringe at the very idea of becoming a teacher. These are the people who should be teachers, and they are repelled by the whole thing because of Lukin and Speedy's thinking. These people are smart enough to understand the downside to teaching, and the people we really want teaching our children. So what's left? Too many of the people we DON'T want teaching our children. This will just get worse and worse as long as people keep looking at it from an anti-union, anti-teacher viewpoint.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
They could pay teachers 250000 a year, 4 hour work day, 6 months off and they'd still be unhappy
Come on, you know that's not true, surely. If you don't, well, it's not. You sound incredibly biased and like you're not really looking at the reality of things to be honest, with a comment like that.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The Chicago Public School Teachers, and their union, can kiss my figgy pudding!
Well, I truly hope that most people don't have that kind of bias Speedy, just because if they do, then that system is going to just get worse and worse and worse.\
You know how education is super important in China and other places in Asia, and how their students perform super well and everything? Well, teachers are positively REVERED there. They are truly respected and very well paid, parents respect them and leave them to do their jobs, and ensure that their children respect them too. The result? Great teachers and incredibly high scores for the students that get better all the time.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
They could pay teachers 250000 a year, 4 hour work day, 6 months off and they'd still be unhappy
Come on, you know that's not true, surely. If you don't, well, it's not. You sound incredibly biased and like you're not really looking at the reality of things to be honest, with a comment like that.
Yeah it's pretty close to the truth ... There a bunch of overpaid whiners.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
They could pay teachers 250000 a year, 4 hour work day, 6 months off and they'd still be unhappy
Come on, you know that's not true, surely. If you don't, well, it's not. You sound incredibly biased and like you're not really looking at the reality of things to be honest, with a comment like that.
Yeah it's pretty close to the truth ... There a bunch of overpaid whiners.
Kay, but aside from saying that a clearly ludicrous statement is basically true, you are also ignoring a ton of important factors here (least of which is the fact that you seem to think that all the teachers are actually sitting at bargaining tables), so seem to have a very skewed outlook on the whole thing. If you're happy with that, great.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't get all the hate for the Teachers , what would you like for your kids teachers that are underpaid & overworked or teachers that feel good about their saleries & professions that give you their all everyday ...Go ahead put your kids in private schools see how much that cost you , a private high school here on Long Island runs you $ 15 to 20 grand a yr .....
I am also shocked at the hate for teachers coming from some of you. Everyone should stand behind teachers and support EVERYTHING that can be done to improve the conditions of schools, education funding, teachers salaries and resources, professional development, incentives for teachers (HELLO???), etc. Instead, you anti-unionist/anti-teacher folks just lay all of the blame on the teachers themselves. Speedy, do you not think that there is a reason why Chicago children are scoring so low besides the supposed fact that all the individual teachers suck?? You don't think that government funding, salaries, hiring practices, limited resources, huge class sizes, very poor administration, and fucked up curriculum have anything to do with it??? :fp:
I don't hate.
Hate is an ugly word.
I just want the Chicago Public School teachers to be held accountable.
If you even mention that to the teachers, they lose their fucking minds.
Accountability?
It's so true. When protected by union contracts, there shall be no personal accountability.
But public education on the whole is to blame as well. Bottom line, there is no need for a union in a profession where those under contract have brought on stereotypes such as being spoiled, complaining, and not even working a real full-time job. It's a fact that students get into this profession for the schedule ALONE, not because they actually want to teach kids.
There are some people who get into it because of the time off (most of them are parents, I should note - who wouldn't want the same time off as their kids have?? As for working part time, or only 9 - 3... that is impossible. No teacher's work day is the same as the students'). But there are a whole lot of them who want to do it because they want to teach, they value education, they love children, they see the value in children getting a great education... there are a LOT of teachers like that. The system is what's flawed because there are no rewards for the great teachers and no incentives for those who could be better. That is what has to change.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't know how better a job can be ... Teachers here in Ontario at the top of the pay grid get in excess 85000, 12 weeks off and all statutory holidays + 6 PA Days a year ... And it's not even an 8 hour sour work day, closer to 6 ... Yeah tough life, how do they survive.
I cant do it.
I cant get in to a discussion about the Chicago Public School Teachers.
NOT ON CHRISTMAS EVE!!!!
But ill be back here Thursday.
And we can talk all about the teachers.
And their pay
And their vacations
And their pensions
And how the Chicago Public School children rate the lowest of the low, when it comes to basic math and reading skills.
When you come back on Thursday, bring up another profession such as yours.
Bring up transport truck drivers that make more money than teachers in our province. In the same spirit of some of the venom you spit on teachers (using brutal stereotypical talk and general disrespect)... talk of how shipping costs are driving up the price of goods that you are tired of paying for. Talk of how awfully hard it must be to sit on your fat ass all day: burping, farting, eating cheezies and drinking Coca-Cola while listening to Sirius Pearl Jam channel. Talk about how many accidents they cause daily. Also talk of how, really, any monkey can drive a truck as long as they get the "circle the 'stop' sign" question right on their licensing test.
To which I will reply: Speedy... I don't care if the costs of goods are high given the responsibility and sacrifices truck drivers must make so we can have our goods from neighbouring provinces and states. Long hours on the roads that we share with them. Long periods of isolation with nobody to speak to. Health problems associated with long sedentary periods of time. These people deserve a wage and benefits that reflect the value they offer society. Sure there are a few bad drivers out there, but overwhelmingly... these people are good people and good workers that should be rewarded for their contributions to society.
They could pay teachers 250000 a year, 4 hour work day, 6 months off and they'd still be unhappy
Come on, you know that's not true, surely. If you don't, well, it's not. You sound incredibly biased and like you're not really looking at the reality of things to be honest, with a comment like that.
Yeah it's pretty close to the truth ... There a bunch of overpaid whiners.
Teachers in Ontario are far from overworked and underpaid. They do getting passing grades here in Ontario at being the number 1 whiners, along with the police and firefighters ... All of which are extremely well paid occupations.
You don't think the police and firefighters should be paid a lot?
Extremely well paid compared to what?
I know of general labourers that make over $100,000 per year- not to take anything away from a general labourer such as a carpenter (my father was one).
What you fail to understand is the fact that public service people cannot simply set the bar for their wages- they have to scratch and kick for them because public tight pants wants them to do the job for nothing.
I wonder if realtors would kick up a fuss if commissions were legislated slightly less than the exorbitant amounts they currently are. Do you think a realtor works really, really hard for their commissions? Throw in their tax benefits and wow... there's a job!
While I'm at it... how about the housing industry which recently exploded here in Canada. Contractors, suppliers and labourers (and the aforementioned realtors) essentially jacked up costs for what they were offering and the profit margins which were then passed on to the consumer.
And your beef is with teachers, policemen, and fire fighters making a reasonable wage (I won't acknowledge what you coined extremely well paid because this is far from general consensus)?
Sorry Lukin... you haven't thought this one out very well. It is this mentality I spoke to earlier: we continually see poorly performing teachers and cops. There is a reason for it: these are unattractive professions that carry significant responsibility without the compensation it probably should. We are not getting the best people for these jobs because they are pounding nails or working in a mine.
I won't be encouraging my son to get into these professions. Would you?
Police and Firefighters in Ontario are very well paid and continue to win bogus arbitration awards because the arbitration system is stacked in there favor ... So much so many police and firefighter associations don't even really try and negotiate ... They want to go to arbitration. A neighboring communities FF were just awarded essentially everything they asked for in arbitration and at the end of 2014 will make in excess of 90000 working 2 days a week ( 2-21 hour shifts). Theses police and firefighters continue to receive nice arbitration awards even though many Ontario I communities can not afford these settlements and this causes municipalities to raise property taxes, which many people are having struggling paying, negotiating lower raises with employees who are making in the 25000-30000 salary or in most cases both.
These upper middle class folks continue to see their salaries rise while the lower middle class continue to take it on the chin.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
As far as reading and math skills?
The Chicago Public School Teachers would make $1.35 an hour.
But instead, they are the 2nd highest paid in the nation.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Yet they'll get on tv at contract time and tell everyone how underpaid they are, and do it with a straight face.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
You don't think the police and firefighters should be paid a lot?
Extremely well paid compared to what?
I know of general labourers that make over $100,000 per year- not to take anything away from a general labourer such as a carpenter (my father was one).
What you fail to understand is the fact that public service people cannot simply set the bar for their wages- they have to scratch and kick for them because public tight pants wants them to do the job for nothing.
I wonder if realtors would kick up a fuss if commissions were legislated slightly less than the exorbitant amounts they currently are. Do you think a realtor works really, really hard for their commissions? Throw in their tax benefits and wow... there's a job!
While I'm at it... how about the housing industry which recently exploded here in Canada. Contractors, suppliers and labourers (and the aforementioned realtors) essentially jacked up costs for what they were offering and the profit margins which were then passed on to the consumer.
And your beef is with teachers, policemen, and fire fighters making a reasonable wage (I won't acknowledge what you coined extremely well paid because this is far from general consensus)?
Sorry Lukin... you haven't thought this one out very well. It is this mentality I spoke to earlier: we continually see poorly performing teachers and cops. There is a reason for it: these are unattractive professions that carry significant responsibility without the compensation it probably should. We are not getting the best people for these jobs because they are pounding nails or working in a mine.
I won't be encouraging my son to get into these professions. Would you?
I cant get in to a discussion about the Chicago Public School Teachers.
NOT ON CHRISTMAS EVE!!!!
But ill be back here Thursday.
And we can talk all about the teachers.
And their pay
And their vacations
And their pensions
And how the Chicago Public School children rate the lowest of the low, when it comes to basic math and reading skills.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Bingo.
PA days they actually have to go and do something. That's only a day off for the students, not the teachers. Professional development days see teachers doing professional development in most cases.
Everyone should have stat holidays off.
I think that 9 months of what they do is worth $85K. That's a decent top salary, so good for the Ontario teachers. You think they'd have that if they didn't fight for every dollar? Not a chance. But the starting salary is $45K. That's terrible. Should be $60K.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Hate is an ugly word.
I just want the Chicago Public School teachers to be held accountable.
If you even mention that to the teachers, they lose their fucking minds.
Accountability?
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Yeah i don't get it people here make it sound as if teaching a class full of kids is a walk in the park ...Merry xmas to everyone here ..
I work at a university, and am horrified by how often I see smart, hardworking people cringe at the very idea of becoming a teacher. These are the people who should be teachers, and they are repelled by the whole thing because of Lukin and Speedy's thinking. These people are smart enough to understand the downside to teaching, and the people we really want teaching our children. So what's left? Too many of the people we DON'T want teaching our children. This will just get worse and worse as long as people keep looking at it from an anti-union, anti-teacher viewpoint.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
You know how education is super important in China and other places in Asia, and how their students perform super well and everything? Well, teachers are positively REVERED there. They are truly respected and very well paid, parents respect them and leave them to do their jobs, and ensure that their children respect them too. The result? Great teachers and incredibly high scores for the students that get better all the time.
Yeah it's pretty close to the truth ... There a bunch of overpaid whiners.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
It's so true. When protected by union contracts, there shall be no personal accountability.
But public education on the whole is to blame as well. Bottom line, there is no need for a union in a profession where those under contract have brought on stereotypes such as being spoiled, complaining, and not even working a real full-time job. It's a fact that students get into this profession for the schedule ALONE, not because they actually want to teach kids.
That said, I'm out. Time to drink some egg nog and enjoy the Yule.
Anyway, what perks do I accept from a teachers union??? That is a complete and total falsehood and I have no idea what he's talking about.
When you come back on Thursday, bring up another profession such as yours.
Bring up transport truck drivers that make more money than teachers in our province. In the same spirit of some of the venom you spit on teachers (using brutal stereotypical talk and general disrespect)... talk of how shipping costs are driving up the price of goods that you are tired of paying for. Talk of how awfully hard it must be to sit on your fat ass all day: burping, farting, eating cheezies and drinking Coca-Cola while listening to Sirius Pearl Jam channel. Talk about how many accidents they cause daily. Also talk of how, really, any monkey can drive a truck as long as they get the "circle the 'stop' sign" question right on their licensing test.
To which I will reply: Speedy... I don't care if the costs of goods are high given the responsibility and sacrifices truck drivers must make so we can have our goods from neighbouring provinces and states. Long hours on the roads that we share with them. Long periods of isolation with nobody to speak to. Health problems associated with long sedentary periods of time. These people deserve a wage and benefits that reflect the value they offer society. Sure there are a few bad drivers out there, but overwhelmingly... these people are good people and good workers that should be rewarded for their contributions to society.
Have a nice XMas.
And what exactly do you do?
Police and Firefighters in Ontario are very well paid and continue to win bogus arbitration awards because the arbitration system is stacked in there favor ... So much so many police and firefighter associations don't even really try and negotiate ... They want to go to arbitration. A neighboring communities FF were just awarded essentially everything they asked for in arbitration and at the end of 2014 will make in excess of 90000 working 2 days a week ( 2-21 hour shifts). Theses police and firefighters continue to receive nice arbitration awards even though many Ontario I communities can not afford these settlements and this causes municipalities to raise property taxes, which many people are having struggling paying, negotiating lower raises with employees who are making in the 25000-30000 salary or in most cases both.
These upper middle class folks continue to see their salaries rise while the lower middle class continue to take it on the chin.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon