Shots fired at LAX

goingtoverona

no thirty, i'm not arguing against being accountable, that is the debate, what we are debating. what I am saying is that a victim of a robbery isn't accountable when the thief uses the stolen goods in a crime, and you are saying the victim is accountable. you are just assuming you are right. so it isn't arguing against being accountable.

I live by a simple rule with guns that is almost surely to never cause an accident. never keep a round in the chamber until you are about to pull the trigger. it's so easy but no one does it.

and no, I think I should face no consequence whatsoever for the scenario you described there I think that's crazy. If my doors and windows are locked, hell if they are even shut, that's taking the necessary responsibility.

usually I do take a pistol with me when I go places, and i'm sure in your mind i'm this terrified person looking around every corner living in fear all day and night, but in actuality I think of it as just a part of my wardrobe, phone, keys, pocket knife, wallet, 9mm. and Frisbees, but they stay in the car not on my person.

oh and you didn't answer my hypothetical car scenario question yo.

goingtoverona

I think you think the cars and knives argument is silly because imo, you put people killed by guns on a pedestal and anything other than that just falls 30 yards short of being important. i don't think being against people getting mowed over in vehicles is silly or any less important than people getting shot. I don't understand how two people could be standing side by side, one gets shot with a gun one gets plowed over by a truck, and for the one shot the response would be oh my god the horror, the tragedy, we could have stopped this oh god we gotta do something. and then the one plowed over by a truck the response is bummer dude, that's life, so uhhhh what's for dinner?

i'm down for the better education, being a teacher should be one of the highest paid professions in our country. agree on the poverty and hate as well. the violence i'm torn on, i'm not pro violence, but i do enjoy call of duty and good action/war movies.

i can't really give a response on the gun sales as "automatic" weapons covers a vast area of different guns but i would be against banning most of them. i'd love to see an end to war and i'd love to see a flying purple unicorn that craps golden nuggets. unfortunately neither will happen, at least not in our lifetimes.
i'd agree on the better background checks, i only got a thorough background check when i applied to carry concealed. but disagree on longer waiting periods. we are the same with guns as with posters and vinyl, need it now gotta have it now.
i'm fifty fifty on the extensive training, i like the idea of it, of people having to go through it, but me personally i wouldn't want to do it.
i'd agree with not calling hunting a sport, however i would say that if a person could catch and kill an animal with his bare hands or just a bowie knife, that that would be impressive enough to be called sport. to be eaten of course not for fun.
agree on the glamourizing violence, but i think that speaks more about people as a whole. movies and tv give us what we want to see. all the repugnant gory violent shit out there being shoved in our faces is exactly what the masses want.unfortunately.
not sure how i feel about the target practice around neighbors. i hear it all the time here, but can hardly hear it inside. maybe i'm just so use to it that it doesn't bother me anymore. i literally have neighbors on all sides hunting and shooting targets.
missed anything? hmmm, i think abolishing the drug war and spending the 40 to 50 billion a year we spend waging war on our own people, on helping people with drug problems. i think a shit ton of our violence is gang/drug related. which is so ironic because during alcohol prohibition it was exactly the same, gangs fighting to protect territory. so we should know better. imo, end the drug war legalize and tax drugs, and gun violence will drop exponentially.

brianlux wrote:

goingtoverona wrote:

to brianlux, I think we are in a state of miscommunication. I believe, strongly, that any person who leaves a gun laying around kids should be punished just for that act, if a kid kills someone or themselves then I think the penalty should be severe. if you have kids around keep your shit locked up safe, that should be the standard. but what you guys are saying is that if I don't have my guns in a bank vault in my own house that I should be punished if i'm the victim of a crime and that person hurts other people with my guns. that's just wowzers to me.
I don't think it's unreasonable at all to make gun purchases more difficult, what do you have in mind?
and both sides can't be pro common sense that's why, but i'd take anti gun over gun nut as a label any day.

Honestly, I think if you're going to have a gun around the house it should- at least while your not at home or in possession of it- be kept locked up. A bank vault? If you have one, sure. Guns are dangerous. Dangerous items should be kept safe. If you kept nitroglycerin around the house I would not suggest that leaving it in a drawer would be safe. (Sorry, that's a silly come-back to the equally silly cars and kitchen knives argument.) It just seems very sensible to me to keep these things safe and locked up.

As for gun purchases being made more difficult: First of all, before even looking at gun purchase, let's look for ways better our education system, and set good examples to make for better people, less poverty, less hatred and less violence.

As for gun sales, start with make it illegal to sell automatics weapons that are made to kill many people. Those are for war (and I'd like to see an end to war as well). Secondly, better back ground checks, longer waiting periods. Thirdly, require tough fire arm safety courses that must be passed at high standards- no breeze through courses. Fourthly, more honesty about guns. Stop calling hunting a "sport". Stop glamorizing violence in our culture. Stop annoying neighbors with target practicing- that kind of activity should be restricted to isolated areas that do not disturb residents.

Any other suggestions? I'm sure I missed some here.

As for labels, that's not my thing. Call me anything but I only respond to my name.

brianlux

goingtoverona wrote:

I think you think the cars and knives argument is silly because imo, you put people killed by guns on a pedestal and anything other than that just falls 30 yards short of being important. i don't think being against people getting mowed over in vehicles is silly or any less important than people getting shot. I don't understand how two people could be standing side by side, one gets shot with a gun one gets plowed over by a truck, and for the one shot the response would be oh my god the horror, the tragedy, we could have stopped this oh god we gotta do something. and then the one plowed over by a truck the response is bummer dude, that's life, so uhhhh what's for dinner?

I had a friend who was killed by a bullet. One of those random killings we hear about. I had a friend killed by slit throat outside a bar by someone who didn't like something he said. I had a friend die of aids- one of the first to go. I had a friend die falling off a cliff. And I had a friend thrown from a car who died slamming head first into a tree. I put them all on a pedestal. So yeah, I get what you're saying, sort of.

goingtoverona wrote:

i'm down for the better education, being a teacher should be one of the highest paid professions in our country. agree on the poverty and hate as well. the violence i'm torn on, i'm not pro violence, but i do enjoy call of duty and good action/war movies.

I'm good with all of that except I think we have differing calls of duty.

goingtoverona wrote:

i can't really give a response on the gun sales as "automatic" weapons covers a vast area of different guns but i would be against banning most of them. i'd love to see an end to war and i'd love to see a flying purple unicorn that craps golden nuggets. unfortunately neither will happen, at least not in our lifetimes.
i'd agree on the better background checks, i only got a thorough background check when i applied to carry concealed. but disagree on longer waiting periods. we are the same with guns as with posters and vinyl, need it now gotta have it now.
i'm fifty fifty on the extensive training, i like the idea of it, of people having to go through it, but me personally i wouldn't want to do it.
i'd agree with not calling hunting a sport, however i would say that if a person could catch and kill an animal with his bare hands or just a bowie knife, that that would be impressive enough to be called sport. to be eaten of course not for fun.

I'd hunt if that was my only means of survival, but I'd forage for non-animal food first. As for being eaten, I'd rather be eaten by a mountain lion than by 4,000 lbs of Detroit (or Japanese) steel.

goingtoverona wrote:

agree on the glamourizing violence, but i think that speaks more about people as a whole. movies and tv give us what we want to see. all the repugnant gory violent shit out there being shoved in our faces is exactly what the masses want.unfortunately.

agreed.

goingtoverona wrote:

not sure how i feel about the target practice around neighbors. i hear it all the time here, but can hardly hear it inside. maybe i'm just so use to it that it doesn't bother me anymore. i literally have neighbors on all sides hunting and shooting targets.

A pet peeve. A bit crazy making.

goingtoverona wrote:

missed anything? hmmm, i think abolishing the drug war and spending the 40 to 50 billion a year we spend waging war on our own people, on helping people with drug problems. i think a shit ton of our violence is gang/drug related. which is so ironic because during alcohol prohibition it was exactly the same, gangs fighting to protect territory. so we should know better. imo, end the drug war legalize and tax drugs, and gun violence will drop exponentially.

End the drug war- yes!

polaris_x

had an interesting conversation with a friend who hunts ... he said he visits hunting/gun forums and he basically has been rendered a lurker ... why? ... because he believes in strict gun laws and regulation ... he doesn't see any attempt by any authority to take away his guns ... but he said despite all the evidence - those pro gun people just aren't interested in listening ... they have bought the NRA propaganda hook, line and sinker and have essentially fallen for the "take away your freedom" play book ...

this works well on the ignorant who won't think critically ... tie any issue to "take away your freedom" and they will back ya ... especially when you toss in other contentious words like "left", "liberals", etc...

it's just really sad to see people who, i hope, ultimately want the same thing not be able to come to a solution ... it's like there really is no hope when people actually believe that to prevent more random shootings - we need to arm more people ... :fp: ...

unsung

Entering an airport with a firearm: illegal

Firing a firearm in an airport: illegal

Murder: illegal

Rifle purchased after 2000?: illegal in Ca

>10 rd magazine: illegal


How many more laws are needed? Perhaps we need a law that makes it illegal to break laws.

unsung

brianlux wrote:

As for gun sales, start with make it illegal to sell automatics weapons that are made to kill many people.

They already are.

JonnyPistachio

brianlux wrote:

Rather than seeing some of us as "anti-gun" can't we be seen as "pro-common sense"?

unsung wrote:

brianlux wrote:

As for gun sales, start with make it illegal to sell automatics weapons that are made to kill many people.

They already are.

I'd assume that he meant guns like the AR-15 semi automatic..

unsung

Probably. It's best though when you take a stance on a hot topic to understand what the topic is.

JonnyPistachio

unsung wrote:

Probably. It's best though when you take a stance on a hot topic to understand what the topic is.

People can have a basic understanding and mis-use terminology to some degree. I recall you gave me tons of shit years ago when I said "clips" instead of magazines. Or was it magazines instead of clips? I dont care, people knew what I was talking about... You proved your point - you own magazines and I dont.

unsung

When the uninformed get their information from the misinformed then it makes for all sorts of confusion and spreads mistruths.

lukin2006

unsung wrote:

Entering an airport with a firearm: illegal

Firing a firearm in an airport: illegal

Murder: illegal

Rifle purchased after 2000?: illegal in Ca

>10 rd magazine: illegal


How many more laws are needed? Perhaps we need a law that makes it illegal to break laws.

Don't give them any ides

brianlux

lukin2006 wrote:

unsung wrote:

Entering an airport with a firearm: illegal

Firing a firearm in an airport: illegal

Murder: illegal

Rifle purchased after 2000?: illegal in Ca

>10 rd magazine: illegal


How many more laws are needed? Perhaps we need a law that makes it illegal to break laws.

Don't give them any ides

I wouldn't worry too much. I have good friends who are law makers and good friends who are died-in-the-wool anarchists.

know1

Another day, another couple of gun incidents in public.

I think I'm starting to believe that we should have tighter gun control laws although I generally despise further eroding our freedoms by giving the government more control over our lives.

mickeyrat

know1 wrote:

Another day, another couple of gun incidents in public.

I think I'm starting to believe that we should have tighter gun control laws although I generally despise further eroding our freedoms by giving the government more control over our lives.

Fuck it. Another payment in blood for freedom.

brianlux

mickeyrat wrote:

know1 wrote:

Another day, another couple of gun incidents in public.

I think I'm starting to believe that we should have tighter gun control laws although I generally despise further eroding our freedoms by giving the government more control over our lives.

Fuck it. Another payment in blood for freedom.

Yes, and I'd even say the idea of guns for everyone, the proliferation of guns in American is an abuse of freedom. Abuse it and eventually you lose it. Not saying their aren't conscientious gun owners but there are far too many who are not. Far too many want them to remain easy to obtain. Far too many are not well trained in their use. It's related to abuse of and misunderstanding of the concept of freedom.

Cosmo

Once again... I don't think anyone is saying, 'Get rid of all guns'. We are saying, 'We should do the best we can to make it hard for nutcases to get one'.
I understand the arguement, if someone really wants to get a gun... he can. I just think that is should be tougher for him to get one, than buying one at a retail store with a minimal background check... or at a Gun Show or from a private citizen with no background checks and no record of the transaction.
Make that asshole have to deal with criminals on the street who might rob and kill them. Force them go into those dangerous places and deal with those criminally minded person to get what they want. Make him run the risk of getting murdered by a criminal gun seller... or get arrested for trying to obtain a gun from an undercover cop. Make him take risks in their quest to obtain weapons to indescriminantly shoot us.
I believe in Second Amendment rights. I do not believe the Second Amendment should protect the criminal who obtains weapons through illegal means.