It's preposterous because it's not in the top 200 let alone the top 20. I'm sure it was an amazing show but people around here have a habit of valuing the most recent show disproportionately relative to its actual impact. :roll:
Wow, this opinion (and others like it, which come up a lot) amazes me. Please explain on what basis you feel able to reduce the opinions of this many people who a) you don't know, b) you don't know their PJ show history, c) you don't know their overall show history (some of us are old and have seen live bands that, yes, have matched or even surpassed PJ live, and we STILL thought C'ville was special)?
On what basis do you so certainly, so absolutely, say that this C'ville show was not in PJ's top 200? Who says that about anything, but especially about a show that they weren't even at???
You are free to be totally unimpressed when you hear the boot/see vids. You are free to be uninspired by the setlist. But how exactly do you feel like you can judge and compare this to 200 or 20 shows WITHOUT EVEN HEARING IT first? And how can you judge and feel like you KNOW what OTHER people are judging this show based on?
And judging all of us that the only reason we're raving about it is because it's the most recent show? Seriously? Look at my post count, I don't post much on this board but I have been seeing this band since '93 and have never even written a fanview until this show. That's how special at least I thought it was.
This just amazes me every time I read these kinds of assumptions and generalizations. They're ridiculous. On on a band message board I guess they're not much more than ridiculous, but it's what it representes about how people see the world in general that freaks me out a lot more. But I digress.. back to "My top 20 is more credible than your top 20" game...
I'm jaded, I'm old, I don't rant and rave about shows here almost ever. And with all that, my humble opinion is: C'ville was super special, and I think a 20 yr old who's only seen 2 shows is JUST as QUALIFIED to judge that it was super special as I am with my "been to 55+ shows, some of them classics" history. Couldn't care less whether it actually makes it into the canons of best 200 or best 20 shows ever... but I DO care that people not dismiss others opinions as I'impossible" or "preposterous" AS IF you have any ability toknow WHAT these many opinions are based on. It's a load of BS to do that.
How about less judgement, more enjoyment!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Head over to the two feet thick concert chronology and start with 1990 reading the show descriptions. Are you really telling me you won't reach a top 20 of shows before October 29, 2013?
You missed the entire point of my post.
But ok, let's assume for a moment that there is, indeed, an agreed upon list of the top 20 shows (which we all know there is not). EVEN IF there is this list of shows, you have admitted you weren't there, you haven't heard a boot of the whole show yet. My simple question is, on what basis can you say that it is "Preposterous" for someone to say this show is in the top 20? On what basis can you, with such certainty, say it was NOT?
I also asked how in the world you can presume to know that everyone is just reacting to it being the most recent show they saw and loved. That was also an assumption that mystified me, as I for one and one of my longtime PJ friends who was also there are 2 of the least "BEST.SHOW.EVER.!!!" people you will ever meet... and we've been to probably 5 or more of the most popularly-considered top 20.
How can you dismiss people's opinions without knowing them, their context, or having even heard the show in question?
Post edited by JH6056 on
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,449
Ed in particular thought that crowd in CVille was impressive. He seemed so happy with them and commented on it a few times. The bands pleasement with the crowd means the most to me. Good crowd.
Eh... I think Ed is generally positive during shows with his comments about the crowd and the city they're playing in. I wouldn't read too much into it. He's mastered the ability to make us all feel special.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Head over to the two feet thick concert chronology and start with 1990 reading the show descriptions. Are you really telling me you won't reach a top 20 of shows before October 29, 2013?
Sure, but that wouldn't be a true top 20 list because it would discount anything that came after you had 20 great shows. You'd probably have 20 great ones before October of 2009 too and that would prevent any of the Spectrum shows from making the list.
Until the band is retired then lists like this are not only subjective but always changing.
I don't know whether Charlottesville is top 20 or not, but I don't think the top 20 clearly listed either. If we were all being honest we could probably come up with the ten biggest/best shows of the band's history. The order would be argued but I'm thinking the likes of Philly 3 and 4, Mansfield 3, Gorge 2005, Soldier Field, Atlanta 94, etc. But after that wouldn't it be a free for all? I don't think after 10 or 15 shows there would be any consensus at all.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,449
I also asked how in the world you can presume to know that everyone is just reacting to it being the most recent show they saw and loved. That was also an assumption that mystified me, as I for one and one of my longtime PJ friends who was also there are 2 of the least "BEST.SHOW.EVER.!!!" people you will ever meet... and we've been to probably 5 or more of the most popularly-considered top 20.
Are you really saying its on par with Atlanta 94 or MSG II in 98 or 18 other shows of that quality? Really?
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Ed in particular thought that crowd in CVille was impressive. He seemed so happy with them and commented on it a few times. The bands pleasement with the crowd means the most to me. Good crowd.
Eh... I think Ed is generally positive during shows with his comments about the crowd and the city they're playing in. I wouldn't read too much into it. He's mastered the ability to make us all feel special.
I do agree, Ed generally seems to make crowds feel special, but there have also been many he has frowned upon. Ed stated recently that crowds are the biggest variable in determining the energy and greatness of a show. I read it on a link someone posted here. He said luckily most crowds are consistent. If the boys felt the CVille crowd was lacking I highly doubt they would have played that set list and give as much energy as they did.
2008: Bonnaroo
2010: Bristow
2012: Atlanta
2013: Charlottesville, Charlotte
2014: Cincinnati
2016: Greenville, Hampton, Raleigh (cancelled), Columbia, Lexington
Most of the top 20 shows are probably from the 90's. There's a few exceptions. But just because a show was awesome as all hell doesn't mean it's in the top 20 of the hundreds of PJ shows there have been. Like, I was at MSG 2 in 2010 and it was an awesome, awesome show. But it's not top 20 of all time. I have to assume it was better than this Charlottesville show. But it's not gonna touch a 1995 Vitalogy tour show.
Most of the top 20 shows are probably from the 90's. There's a few exceptions. But just because a show was awesome as all hell doesn't mean it's in the top 20 of the hundreds of PJ shows there have been. Like, I was at MSG 2 in 2010 and it was an awesome, awesome show. But it's not top 20 of all time. I have to assume it was better than this Charlottesville show. But it's not gonna touch a 1995 Vitalogy tour show.
"I have to assume it was better than this Charlottesville show." Jesus some people have a lot of nerve and uniformed opinions. It's amazing that people judge a show before they even hear it or were not even there. I've listened to msg 2 10 several a times. It and CVille are a toss up.
2008: Bonnaroo
2010: Bristow
2012: Atlanta
2013: Charlottesville, Charlotte
2014: Cincinnati
2016: Greenville, Hampton, Raleigh (cancelled), Columbia, Lexington
I also asked how in the world you can presume to know that everyone is just reacting to it being the most recent show they saw and loved. That was also an assumption that mystified me, as I for one and one of my longtime PJ friends who was also there are 2 of the least "BEST.SHOW.EVER.!!!" people you will ever meet... and we've been to probably 5 or more of the most popularly-considered top 20.
Are you really saying its on par with Atlanta 94 or MSG II in 98 or 18 other shows of that quality? Really?
So just to be clear here, it sounds like you think it's impossible for them to have a show that meets your criteria for a top 20 show anymore, right? Your comment about checking Two Feet Thick pretty much screams that. Time will tell I suppose, but when you have the guys playing shows longer than they ever have before on a consistent basis with setlists reaching into uncharted territory, why is it crazy to think that when people who went to most every show on this leg that declare it the best of the bunch that they may be on to something?
I also asked how in the world you can presume to know that everyone is just reacting to it being the most recent show they saw and loved. That was also an assumption that mystified me, as I for one and one of my longtime PJ friends who was also there are 2 of the least "BEST.SHOW.EVER.!!!" people you will ever meet... and we've been to probably 5 or more of the most popularly-considered top 20.
Are you really saying its on par with Atlanta 94 or MSG II in 98 or 18 other shows of that quality? Really?
So just to be clear here, it sounds like you think it's impossible for them to have a show that meets your criteria for a top 20 show anymore, right? Your comment about checking Two Feet Thick pretty much screams that. Time will tell I suppose, but when you have the guys playing shows longer than they ever have before on a consistent basis with setlists reaching into uncharted territory, why is it crazy to think that when people who went to most every show on this leg that declare it the best of the bunch that they may be on to something?
+1 I'm trying to make the same point.
2008: Bonnaroo
2010: Bristow
2012: Atlanta
2013: Charlottesville, Charlotte
2014: Cincinnati
2016: Greenville, Hampton, Raleigh (cancelled), Columbia, Lexington
Time will tell I suppose, but when you have the guys playing shows longer than they ever have before on a consistent basis with setlists reaching into uncharted territory, why is it crazy to think that when people who went to most every show on this leg that declare it the best of the bunch that they may be on to something?
A. Most of the songs you are talking about "reaching into uncharted territory" were played on a nightly basis during the Binaural tour.
B. I'm not disputing Charlottesville as the best of the fall tour. I'm fine with people declaring it the best of many great shows this fall. I'm only disputing the placement in the top 20 all time.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Time will tell I suppose, but when you have the guys playing shows longer than they ever have before on a consistent basis with setlists reaching into uncharted territory, why is it crazy to think that when people who went to most every show on this leg that declare it the best of the bunch that they may be on to something?
A. Most of the songs you are talking about "reaching into uncharted territory" were played on a nightly basis during the Binaural tour.
B. I'm not disputing Charlottesville as the best of the fall tour. I'm fine with people declaring it the best of many great shows this fall. I'm only disputing the placement in the top 20 all time.
So in all seriousness, what would have to happen for a more recent show to reach that status in your opinion? I'm not completely disagreeing with you in the sense that it probably is a little too soon to make such a declaration about Charlottesville, but you do come across as insinuating that they are incapable of a "top 20" show these days so I'm wondering if you really believe that and if not, what would change your mind?
I also asked how in the world you can presume to know that everyone is just reacting to it being the most recent show they saw and loved. That was also an assumption that mystified me, as I for one and one of my longtime PJ friends who was also there are 2 of the least "BEST.SHOW.EVER.!!!" people you will ever meet... and we've been to probably 5 or more of the most popularly-considered top 20.
Are you really saying its on par with Atlanta 94 or MSG II in 98 or 18 other shows of that quality? Really?
See, this is what is so ABSURD and ignorant about your whole line of reasoning on this, and also what makes your opinion on the "preposterousness" of calling C'ville a top 20 ever show so obnoxious: you are judging these specific 2 shows, Atlanta '94 and MSG2 '98, as classics based on concert chronology, setlists, boots, and whatever else you have. You have said yourself elsewhere: you were NOT at these shows either. And you were NOT at C'ville, haven't even heard a complete boot yet.
Yet YOU know better than anyone who was there, that it does NOT qualify. Riiiiiight.
Well, you asked me if I'm really saying it's on par with Atlanta '94 or MSG2 '98, and I'm going to answer that. But before I answer, I have a question for you: does the fact that I was ACTUALLY AT MSG2 '98 GIVE ME ANY ABILITY TO MAKE A **MORE** INFORMED CHOICE THAN SOMEONE JUDGING BASED ON EVERYTHING **EXCEPT** ACTUALLY BEING THERE?
Yup, I was there in front, holding a "Breath" sign, probably have a few instamatic camera pics of the audience from the front back holding the signs. I remember what it's like to hear Ed say "Fuck you we're going to play it!" and the eruption of emotion we all felt. I saw a fan get handed Ed's bent mic stand by Ed and all the awe everyone around us felt at that gift. I remember Ed's 3rd Eye Blind reference before Baba. I was f'in there. And guess what? C'ville was DIFFERENT, very different energy and so much is different... but it was also FIFTEEN YEARS AGO and I'm not sure at all that C'ville was not actually BETTER because of so much of the good stuff that comes with being an older and wiser band.
Me, I don't really care whether C'ville ever ends up "officially" in the canon of top 20 shows ever. What I take exception to is you acting like you actually know BETTER than people who were at one show or another that it was NOT in the top 20 based on... based on what, the fact that you are really good at reading concert chronologies and you have the best copies of the best boots of the best shows?
I'm not saying you do not have the right to have an opinion, because you absolutely do have a right. But I'm asking you what right YOU Have to judge that other people are WRONG when you haven't even heard the frickin show yet, and some of the people you are calling wrong were at BOTH shows (or other epic shows and C'ville).
And I say that, as someone who was at one of the 2 EPIC shows you wanted to use as an example as unbeatable: YES, I actually have a valuable opinion about it because I was at BOTH: Charlottesville was INCREDIBLE!!!
Everything posted as an "innocent question" by the OP always eventually disintegrates into this type of conflict. Seriously, do a search.
Just my opinion, unless you're looking to beef over shit that just doesn't matter, all while under the disguise od "discussion of music" it's best to just avoid anything that has the OPs name in the title.
I say that as I spin my "Live on Ten Legs" vinyl side 2 which starts with "Unthought Known" a song they thankfully didn't play in Charlottesville, because that shit is SO played out, right Hank?
Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,449
I also asked how in the world you can presume to know that everyone is just reacting to it being the most recent show they saw and loved. That was also an assumption that mystified me, as I for one and one of my longtime PJ friends who was also there are 2 of the least "BEST.SHOW.EVER.!!!" people you will ever meet... and we've been to probably 5 or more of the most popularly-considered top 20.
Are you really saying its on par with Atlanta 94 or MSG II in 98 or 18 other shows of that quality? Really?
See, this is what is so ABSURD and ignorant about your whole line of reasoning on this, and also what makes your opinion on the "preposterousness" of calling C'ville a top 20 ever show so obnoxious: you are judging these specific 2 shows, Atlanta '94 and MSG2 '98, as classics based on concert chronology, setlists, boots, and whatever else you have. You have said yourself elsewhere: you were NOT at these shows either. And you were NOT at C'ville, haven't even heard a complete boot yet.
Yet YOU know better than anyone who was there, that it does NOT qualify. Riiiiiight.
Well, you asked me if I'm really saying it's on par with Atlanta '94 or MSG2 '98, and I'm going to answer that. But before I answer, I have a question for you: does the fact that I was ACTUALLY AT MSG2 '98 GIVE ME ANY ABILITY TO MAKE A **MORE** INFORMED CHOICE THAN SOMEONE JUDGING BASED ON EVERYTHING **EXCEPT** ACTUALLY BEING THERE?
Yup, I was there in front, holding a "Breath" sign, probably have a few instamatic camera pics of the audience from the front back holding the signs. I remember what it's like to hear Ed say "Fuck you we're going to play it!" and the eruption of emotion we all felt. I saw a fan get handed Ed's bent mic stand by Ed and all the awe everyone around us felt at that gift. I remember Ed's 3rd Eye Blind reference before Baba. I was f'in there. And guess what? C'ville was DIFFERENT, very different energy and so much is different... but it was also FIFTEEN YEARS AGO and I'm not sure at all that C'ville was not actually BETTER because of so much of the good stuff that comes with being an older and wiser band.
Me, I don't really care whether C'ville ever ends up "officially" in the canon of top 20 shows ever. What I take exception to is you acting like you actually know BETTER than people who were at one show or another that it was NOT in the top 20 based on... based on what, the fact that you are really good at reading concert chronologies and you have the best copies of the best boots of the best shows?
I'm not saying you do not have the right to have an opinion, because you absolutely do have a right. But I'm asking you what right YOU Have to judge that other people are WRONG when you haven't even heard the frickin show yet, and some of the people you are calling wrong were at BOTH shows (or other epic shows and C'ville).
And I say that, as someone who was at one of the 2 EPIC shows you wanted to use as an example as unbeatable: YES, I actually have a valuable opinion about it because I was at BOTH: Charlottesville was INCREDIBLE!!!
Uh... i was at MSG 2 in 1998. Just saying.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Is it in your top 20? Really that is all that matters.
This ....
jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,449
I like to think of the top shows like i think about who belongs in the baseball hall of fame. Which is that if you have to think about it the guy is probably not a hall of famer. True hall of famers leave no room for doubt. Likewise nobody doubts MSG 2's place in history but there seems to be plenty of debate about Charlottesville.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,449
I like to think of the top shows like i think about who belongs in the baseball hall of fame. Which is that if you have to think about it the guy is probably not a hall of famer. True hall of famers leave no room for doubt. Likewise nobody doubts MSG 2's place in history but there seems to be plenty of debate about Charlottesville.
The real "debate" about this show seems to be coming mostly from just a few folks. There's a loud collective voice that the show frickin' rocked our faces off and deserves at least to be in the conversation for top 20.
Went to 4 shows this tour and Charlottesville had the WORST crowd by far. In order to be great you need it all. Good set list though
Really? Where were you sitting? I felt like the crowd was better than any other I've seen except Philly 3 in 2009.
00: Va Beach, 03: Bristow, 04: Reading, 05: Atlantic City 2x
06: Camden, Washington DC, 08: Va Beach, Washington DC
09: Philly 2+3, 10: Bristow, 11: East Troy PJ20 1+2, 13: Baltimore, Charlottesville
Are you really saying its on par with Atlanta 94 or MSG II in 98 or 18 other shows of that quality? Really?
See, this is what is so ABSURD and ignorant about your whole line of reasoning on this, and also what makes your opinion on the "preposterousness" of calling C'ville a top 20 ever show so obnoxious: you are judging these specific 2 shows, Atlanta '94 and MSG2 '98, as classics based on concert chronology, setlists, boots, and whatever else you have. You have said yourself elsewhere: you were NOT at these shows either. And you were NOT at C'ville, haven't even heard a complete boot yet.
Yet YOU know better than anyone who was there, that it does NOT qualify. Riiiiiight.
Well, you asked me if I'm really saying it's on par with Atlanta '94 or MSG2 '98, and I'm going to answer that. But before I answer, I have a question for you: does the fact that I was ACTUALLY AT MSG2 '98 GIVE ME ANY ABILITY TO MAKE A **MORE** INFORMED CHOICE THAN SOMEONE JUDGING BASED ON EVERYTHING **EXCEPT** ACTUALLY BEING THERE?
Yup, I was there in front, holding a "Breath" sign, probably have a few instamatic camera pics of the audience from the front back holding the signs. I remember what it's like to hear Ed say "Fuck you we're going to play it!" and the eruption of emotion we all felt. I saw a fan get handed Ed's bent mic stand by Ed and all the awe everyone around us felt at that gift. I remember Ed's 3rd Eye Blind reference before Baba. I was f'in there. And guess what? C'ville was DIFFERENT, very different energy and so much is different... but it was also FIFTEEN YEARS AGO and I'm not sure at all that C'ville was not actually BETTER because of so much of the good stuff that comes with being an older and wiser band.
Me, I don't really care whether C'ville ever ends up "officially" in the canon of top 20 shows ever. What I take exception to is you acting like you actually know BETTER than people who were at one show or another that it was NOT in the top 20 based on... based on what, the fact that you are really good at reading concert chronologies and you have the best copies of the best boots of the best shows?
I'm not saying you do not have the right to have an opinion, because you absolutely do have a right. But I'm asking you what right YOU Have to judge that other people are WRONG when you haven't even heard the frickin show yet, and some of the people you are calling wrong were at BOTH shows (or other epic shows and C'ville).
And I say that, as someone who was at one of the 2 EPIC shows you wanted to use as an example as unbeatable: YES, I actually have a valuable opinion about it because I was at BOTH: Charlottesville was INCREDIBLE!!!
Uh... i was at MSG 2 in 1998. Just saying.
Great, I'll take that response plus your LACK of response to the bottom line question (so beautifully asked by the Who) "Who the F are you?" To say ANYONE who was there is wrong as your admission that, indeed, your post was presumptuous, you really do not have standing to say anyone was "wrong" about it being top 20 (even if you were at MSG 2 '98, since you were not at C'ville 1 '13), and the idea that a show you've never heard isn't even in the top 200 is just as stupid.
Awesome! Great when we all end on the same page! .
Most of the top 20 shows are probably from the 90's. There's a few exceptions. But just because a show was awesome as all hell doesn't mean it's in the top 20 of the hundreds of PJ shows there have been. Like, I was at MSG 2 in 2010 and it was an awesome, awesome show. But it's not top 20 of all time. I have to assume it was better than this Charlottesville show. But it's not gonna touch a 1995 Vitalogy tour show.
"I have to assume it was better than this Charlottesville show." Jesus some people have a lot of nerve and uniformed opinions. It's amazing that people judge a show before they even hear it or were not even there. I've listened to msg 2 10 several a times. It and CVille are a toss up.
Well I was going on some quotes from earlier in the thread from people that were there
Multiple people posted that they were at Charlottesville, Philly, and Hartford, and genuinely feel that Charlottesville is the top show this tour. I trust their opinion and wouldn't argue with them. But ranking it top 20 all time... :nono:
So on those opinions I assumed that MSG 2 in 2010 must have been better but none of this really matters anyway. Rankings are subjective and even still, it's impossible to rank shows you've been to with shows you haven't been to. You can rank them separately; the shows you've been to and the boots you like of shows you haven't been to. Truth be told, the show you just walked out of is usually the best.
Is it in your top 20? Really that is all that matters.
This ....
I do agree with this!
+1.
I was at Charlottesville. It was fun. The band enjoyed themselves. They sounded mighty fine. Some dude's kids got a bunch of attention. But I don't get the rest of the hype.
Soon as I got out of work tonight I had to read the 2 pages posted since I last posted this morning. Some of you are brutal. Can't really rip someone apart for there OPINION! My favorite show will not be the same as others. Just cause I thought a crowd sucked doesn't mean you have to. Neither one of us are right or wrong. And yes they are performers they tell the audience every night that they are great good or bad. Can you imagine the threads if Eddie came on stage and said you guys fucking suck and are the worst audience in years but were gonna continue to rock out. Lol this thread is funny.
Brooklyn 1,2 13
Chicago EV 08 11 13
Cleveland 94 98 03 06 10
Cincinatti 06
Columbus 00 03 10
Detroit 06 EV 11 14
Grand Rapids 06
Hershey 03
Jacksonville EV 12
Moline 14
Montreal 05
Milwaukee EV 08
Nobelsville 03
Ottawa 05
Pittsburgh 06 13
Toledo 96 04
WRIGLEY 13
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,449
Great, I'll take that response plus your LACK of response to the bottom line question (so beautifully asked by the Who) "Who the F are you?" To say ANYONE who was there is wrong as your admission that, indeed, your post was presumptuous, you really do not have standing to say anyone was "wrong" about it being top 20 (even if you were at MSG 2 '98, since you were not at C'ville 1 '13), and the idea that a show you've never heard isn't even in the top 200 is just as stupid.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
SET 1
Pendulum
Release
In My Tree
Corduroy
Go
Why Go
Lightning Bolt
Mind Your Manners
I Am Mine
Swallowed Whole
Faithfull
Wishlist
Sirens
Jeremy
Grievance
Glorified G
The Fixer
Down
Rearviewmirror
ENCORE 1
The End
Thumbing My Way
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ENCORE 2
Breath
State Of Love And Trust
Alive
Baba O'Riley
Little Wing-Full Version
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Great, I'll take that response plus your LACK of response to the bottom line question (so beautifully asked by the Who) "Who the F are you?" To say ANYONE who was there is wrong as your admission that, indeed, your post was presumptuous, you really do not have standing to say anyone was "wrong" about it being top 20 (even if you were at MSG 2 '98, since you were not at C'ville 1 '13), and the idea that a show you've never heard isn't even in the top 200 is just as stupid.
Dude, we have never met and haven't really "corresponded" enough for you to be blowing me kisses this soon, but if blowing kisses is your way of making a peace offering, well, that is kinda sweet... Smooches right back to you! :oops:
I will add this..the setlist went untouched..except switching the order of 2 songs..an 11 song encore?!!..followed by 4 more...these guys wouldnt stop even when they knew they had a gig the next night..all those that werent there need to watch the youtubes with a set of headphones on..watch the reactions from all band members...this night was " extra" special..all Im saying..geez..it even smelled good in there..
I cant say top 20... again simply because of the number of shows these guys have played..but I guarantee you if you asked anybody there, including the band, you would get a smile..
Comments
You missed the entire point of my post.
But ok, let's assume for a moment that there is, indeed, an agreed upon list of the top 20 shows (which we all know there is not). EVEN IF there is this list of shows, you have admitted you weren't there, you haven't heard a boot of the whole show yet. My simple question is, on what basis can you say that it is "Preposterous" for someone to say this show is in the top 20? On what basis can you, with such certainty, say it was NOT?
I also asked how in the world you can presume to know that everyone is just reacting to it being the most recent show they saw and loved. That was also an assumption that mystified me, as I for one and one of my longtime PJ friends who was also there are 2 of the least "BEST.SHOW.EVER.!!!" people you will ever meet... and we've been to probably 5 or more of the most popularly-considered top 20.
How can you dismiss people's opinions without knowing them, their context, or having even heard the show in question?
Eh... I think Ed is generally positive during shows with his comments about the crowd and the city they're playing in. I wouldn't read too much into it. He's mastered the ability to make us all feel special.
Sure, but that wouldn't be a true top 20 list because it would discount anything that came after you had 20 great shows. You'd probably have 20 great ones before October of 2009 too and that would prevent any of the Spectrum shows from making the list.
Until the band is retired then lists like this are not only subjective but always changing.
I don't know whether Charlottesville is top 20 or not, but I don't think the top 20 clearly listed either. If we were all being honest we could probably come up with the ten biggest/best shows of the band's history. The order would be argued but I'm thinking the likes of Philly 3 and 4, Mansfield 3, Gorge 2005, Soldier Field, Atlanta 94, etc. But after that wouldn't it be a free for all? I don't think after 10 or 15 shows there would be any consensus at all.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Are you really saying its on par with Atlanta 94 or MSG II in 98 or 18 other shows of that quality? Really?
I do agree, Ed generally seems to make crowds feel special, but there have also been many he has frowned upon. Ed stated recently that crowds are the biggest variable in determining the energy and greatness of a show. I read it on a link someone posted here. He said luckily most crowds are consistent. If the boys felt the CVille crowd was lacking I highly doubt they would have played that set list and give as much energy as they did.
2010: Bristow
2012: Atlanta
2013: Charlottesville, Charlotte
2014: Cincinnati
2016: Greenville, Hampton, Raleigh (cancelled), Columbia, Lexington
For your bootleg review needs or recommendations- http://pjbootlegreviews.blogspot.com/
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
"I have to assume it was better than this Charlottesville show." Jesus some people have a lot of nerve and uniformed opinions. It's amazing that people judge a show before they even hear it or were not even there. I've listened to msg 2 10 several a times. It and CVille are a toss up.
2010: Bristow
2012: Atlanta
2013: Charlottesville, Charlotte
2014: Cincinnati
2016: Greenville, Hampton, Raleigh (cancelled), Columbia, Lexington
For your bootleg review needs or recommendations- http://pjbootlegreviews.blogspot.com/
So just to be clear here, it sounds like you think it's impossible for them to have a show that meets your criteria for a top 20 show anymore, right? Your comment about checking Two Feet Thick pretty much screams that. Time will tell I suppose, but when you have the guys playing shows longer than they ever have before on a consistent basis with setlists reaching into uncharted territory, why is it crazy to think that when people who went to most every show on this leg that declare it the best of the bunch that they may be on to something?
+1 I'm trying to make the same point.
2010: Bristow
2012: Atlanta
2013: Charlottesville, Charlotte
2014: Cincinnati
2016: Greenville, Hampton, Raleigh (cancelled), Columbia, Lexington
For your bootleg review needs or recommendations- http://pjbootlegreviews.blogspot.com/
A. Most of the songs you are talking about "reaching into uncharted territory" were played on a nightly basis during the Binaural tour.
B. I'm not disputing Charlottesville as the best of the fall tour. I'm fine with people declaring it the best of many great shows this fall. I'm only disputing the placement in the top 20 all time.
So in all seriousness, what would have to happen for a more recent show to reach that status in your opinion? I'm not completely disagreeing with you in the sense that it probably is a little too soon to make such a declaration about Charlottesville, but you do come across as insinuating that they are incapable of a "top 20" show these days so I'm wondering if you really believe that and if not, what would change your mind?
See, this is what is so ABSURD and ignorant about your whole line of reasoning on this, and also what makes your opinion on the "preposterousness" of calling C'ville a top 20 ever show so obnoxious: you are judging these specific 2 shows, Atlanta '94 and MSG2 '98, as classics based on concert chronology, setlists, boots, and whatever else you have. You have said yourself elsewhere: you were NOT at these shows either. And you were NOT at C'ville, haven't even heard a complete boot yet.
Yet YOU know better than anyone who was there, that it does NOT qualify. Riiiiiight.
Well, you asked me if I'm really saying it's on par with Atlanta '94 or MSG2 '98, and I'm going to answer that. But before I answer, I have a question for you: does the fact that I was ACTUALLY AT MSG2 '98 GIVE ME ANY ABILITY TO MAKE A **MORE** INFORMED CHOICE THAN SOMEONE JUDGING BASED ON EVERYTHING **EXCEPT** ACTUALLY BEING THERE?
Yup, I was there in front, holding a "Breath" sign, probably have a few instamatic camera pics of the audience from the front back holding the signs. I remember what it's like to hear Ed say "Fuck you we're going to play it!" and the eruption of emotion we all felt. I saw a fan get handed Ed's bent mic stand by Ed and all the awe everyone around us felt at that gift. I remember Ed's 3rd Eye Blind reference before Baba. I was f'in there. And guess what? C'ville was DIFFERENT, very different energy and so much is different... but it was also FIFTEEN YEARS AGO and I'm not sure at all that C'ville was not actually BETTER because of so much of the good stuff that comes with being an older and wiser band.
Me, I don't really care whether C'ville ever ends up "officially" in the canon of top 20 shows ever. What I take exception to is you acting like you actually know BETTER than people who were at one show or another that it was NOT in the top 20 based on... based on what, the fact that you are really good at reading concert chronologies and you have the best copies of the best boots of the best shows?
I'm not saying you do not have the right to have an opinion, because you absolutely do have a right. But I'm asking you what right YOU Have to judge that other people are WRONG when you haven't even heard the frickin show yet, and some of the people you are calling wrong were at BOTH shows (or other epic shows and C'ville).
And I say that, as someone who was at one of the 2 EPIC shows you wanted to use as an example as unbeatable: YES, I actually have a valuable opinion about it because I was at BOTH: Charlottesville was INCREDIBLE!!!
Just my opinion, unless you're looking to beef over shit that just doesn't matter, all while under the disguise od "discussion of music" it's best to just avoid anything that has the OPs name in the title.
I say that as I spin my "Live on Ten Legs" vinyl side 2 which starts with "Unthought Known" a song they thankfully didn't play in Charlottesville, because that shit is SO played out, right Hank?
Uh... i was at MSG 2 in 1998. Just saying.
This ....
I do agree with this!
Hampton 2016
The real "debate" about this show seems to be coming mostly from just a few folks. There's a loud collective voice that the show frickin' rocked our faces off and deserves at least to be in the conversation for top 20.
Really? Where were you sitting? I felt like the crowd was better than any other I've seen except Philly 3 in 2009.
06: Camden, Washington DC, 08: Va Beach, Washington DC
09: Philly 2+3, 10: Bristow, 11: East Troy PJ20 1+2, 13: Baltimore, Charlottesville
Great, I'll take that response plus your LACK of response to the bottom line question (so beautifully asked by the Who) "Who the F are you?" To say ANYONE who was there is wrong as your admission that, indeed, your post was presumptuous, you really do not have standing to say anyone was "wrong" about it being top 20 (even if you were at MSG 2 '98, since you were not at C'ville 1 '13), and the idea that a show you've never heard isn't even in the top 200 is just as stupid.
Awesome! Great when we all end on the same page!
Well I was going on some quotes from earlier in the thread from people that were there
So on those opinions I assumed that MSG 2 in 2010 must have been better but none of this really matters anyway. Rankings are subjective and even still, it's impossible to rank shows you've been to with shows you haven't been to. You can rank them separately; the shows you've been to and the boots you like of shows you haven't been to. Truth be told, the show you just walked out of is usually the best.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
Hahahahaha -- like you today, judging the Baltimore show YOU didn't attend and haven't heard?! Give me a break. I can't even believe I'm reading this.
+1.
I was at Charlottesville. It was fun. The band enjoyed themselves. They sounded mighty fine. Some dude's kids got a bunch of attention. But I don't get the rest of the hype.
Chicago EV 08 11 13
Cleveland 94 98 03 06 10
Cincinatti 06
Columbus 00 03 10
Detroit 06 EV 11 14
Grand Rapids 06
Hershey 03
Jacksonville EV 12
Moline 14
Montreal 05
Milwaukee EV 08
Nobelsville 03
Ottawa 05
Pittsburgh 06 13
Toledo 96 04
WRIGLEY 13
Pendulum
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Lightning Bolt
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I Am Mine
Swallowed Whole
Faithfull
Wishlist
Sirens
Jeremy
Grievance
Glorified G
The Fixer
Down
Rearviewmirror
ENCORE 1
The End
Thumbing My Way
Sleight Of Hand
Footsteps
Future Days
Mother
Given To Fly
Whipping
Big Wave
Sad
Porch
ENCORE 2
Breath
State Of Love And Trust
Alive
Baba O'Riley
Little Wing-Full Version
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2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
Dude, we have never met and haven't really "corresponded" enough for you to be blowing me kisses this soon, but if blowing kisses is your way of making a peace offering, well, that is kinda sweet... Smooches right back to you! :oops:
I cant say top 20... again simply because of the number of shows these guys have played..but I guarantee you if you asked anybody there, including the band, you would get a smile..
Hampton 2016