is Charlottesville a top 20 all time show?

ladydocNYC

SVRDhand13 wrote:

DiRtyFranK38 wrote:

Even with that awesome setlist I couldn't even imagine that show topping Brooklyn 2 or Hartford.

Or maybe Philly 1 too

Many who were at all those say it did top them, handily.

spankyMP

Lost In Ohio wrote:

Here are shows that stand out in my mind:

1990
10/22/1990

1994
Atlanta

1995
6/20/1995 Red Rocks II
7/11/1995 Soldier Field

1996
9/29/1996 - Randall's Island

2000
Las Vegas
Jones Beach (maybe...at least the "it's ok" tag was fantastic!)
Virginia Beach...nuff said, right?
10/30/2000 - Alpine Valley

2003
May-whenever it was..too lazy to look it up...State College.
10/22 - Benaroyal Hall
10/28 - TOTD Reunion

2009
10/30 Philly 3
10/31 Philly 4

2010
MSG - Slow Lukin!

2011
9/3/04
9/4/04

I was at 7 of the above shows (one lucky SOB!!!). Charlottesville makes 8 and I might rank it as my number 1!!!

on2legs

Better than the Orpheum show?

Better than the Constitution Hall show in 98?

on2legs

I like the setlist but I'm not getting the hype. If you subtract the lightning bolt songs you had a great chance to see most of the remaining songs at any show on the Binaural tour.

buckleymookie

I absolutely love this thread and analyzing the fuck out of our favorite band. I've seen around 15 or 16 shows and this was I am slowly coming to believe the very best I've ever seen them. I was at quite a many other epic shows, including the 00 Va Beach one which was super emotional. The great thing is that we can all evaluate our own respective experiences throughout these shows but in my opinion when the setlist, crowd energy, sound quality, and overall band on fire I do believe it was my best experience live ever. Think honestly too reading the band and their reactions they would rank it themselves as at least top 10 shows they've played.

Big Bank Hank

buckleymookie wrote:

I absolutely love this thread and analyzing the fuck out of our favorite band. I've seen around 15 or 16 shows and this was I am slowly coming to believe the very best I've ever seen them. I was at quite a many other epic shows, including the 00 Va Beach one which was super emotional. The great thing is that we can all evaluate our own respective experiences throughout these shows but in my opinion when the setlist, crowd energy, sound quality, and overall band on fire I do believe it was my best experience live ever. Think honestly too reading the band and their reactions they would rank it themselves as at least top 10 shows they've played.

:thumbup:

bootlegger10

If this setlist was played in Brooklyn or Philly it would have been voted the best with little doubt. Suffering from the classic case of Northeast bias. Been to 60+ shows and this was one of those great shows that will be talked about for years. Not the best but top 3 of the year I am sure so great enough.

mcrok

Definitely top modern day show. There is no doubt about this. Set list was superb but that is just one factor. Name another factor ---this show had it in a perfect way. I'm a super picky fan and never walked away this satisfied except for maybe my first show in 1996 or Borgata II. I have been to some really great/memorable shows since but Cville was just something else. I can't begin to explain the satisfaction from Cville and it was instant and just elevated the whole show.

My wife and I are just so thankful. Cville was PURE STOKE!!

mcrok

ladydocNYC wrote:

SVRDhand13 wrote:

DiRtyFranK38 wrote:

Even with that awesome setlist I couldn't even imagine that show topping Brooklyn 2 or Hartford.

Or maybe Philly 1 too

Many who were at all those say it did top them, handily.

Yup, this is a fact

mcrok

on2legs wrote:

I like the setlist but I'm not getting the hype. If you subtract the lightning bolt songs you had a great chance to see most of the remaining songs at any show on the Binaural tour.

You probably aren't getting the hype because, unfortunately, you were not there. You've been to enough shows by now to know it is more than just a setlist that puts a show on a higher plane.

TamaDrummer91

I tried my best to actually think this show was below average. I went in thinking the crowd would suck and a greatest hits set would come as a result. After seeing their reaction to in my tree, I knew things were going to be at least very good. A few hits like Jeremy and fixer had me concerned that the show might slip into just a "good" show category. After Ed played the end, I never once again thought this gig was anything other than absolutely brilliant. So, to those who don't buy the hype...you should.

Anyone can go look through my posts and see I don't always buy into the shows that are epic. I think the philly 09 shows are vastly overrated and borderline sloppy. That show in CVille was not sloppy. A few small errors, but still overall incredibly tight. Some of the best versions of Sleight of Hand, Thumbing my Way, Footsteps, State of Love and Trust, and Sad. Ed got the words right to breath which is a miracle. Release was beautiful, I cried my damn eyes out at the show. Although not flawless, in my tree, breath, and big wave were much better than the average takes (especially since 2006).

helpme2helpyou

TamaDrummer91 wrote:

I tried my best to actually think this show was below average. I went in thinking the crowd would suck and a greatest hits set would come as a result. After seeing their reaction to in my tree, I knew things were going to be at least very good. A few hits like Jeremy and fixer had me concerned that the show might slip into just a "good" show category. After Ed played the end, I never once again thought this gig was anything other than absolutely brilliant. So, to those who don't buy the hype...you should.

Anyone can go look through my posts and see I don't always buy into the shows that are epic. I think the philly 09 shows are vastly overrated and borderline sloppy. That show in CVille was not sloppy. A few small errors, but still overall incredibly tight. Some of the best versions of Sleight of Hand, Thumbing my Way, Footsteps, State of Love and Trust, and Sad. Ed got the words right to breath which is a miracle. Release was beautiful, I cried my damn eyes out at the show. Although not flawless, in my tree, breath, and big wave were much better than the average takes (especially since 2006).

Just out of curiosity; were you at the 2009 Spectrum shows? There may have been some mishaps, but the intangibles of that week in Philadelphia are hard to measure. In regards to the Charlottesville show, I wasn't there but I was at some of the other shows that people having been raving about from this tour. If people who were at Hartford for example say that Charlottesville was better, all I can say is that that is impressive. We all have favorite shows for different reasons, I don't even know where I would start my top 20 list. I was at the Randall's Island shows in 1996, the original, and still the best in my opinion, MSG shows in 1998, I guess those would top the list of the many shows dating back to 1992 that I have seen. If people were at some of those type of shows, and not basing their opinion on bootleg recordings, and they say that Charlottesville ranks up there then I seriously regret making Baltimore the last show I attended this tour.

TamaDrummer91

helpme2helpyou wrote:

TamaDrummer91 wrote:

I tried my best to actually think this show was below average. I went in thinking the crowd would suck and a greatest hits set would come as a result. After seeing their reaction to in my tree, I knew things were going to be at least very good. A few hits like Jeremy and fixer had me concerned that the show might slip into just a "good" show category. After Ed played the end, I never once again thought this gig was anything other than absolutely brilliant. So, to those who don't buy the hype...you should.

Anyone can go look through my posts and see I don't always buy into the shows that are epic. I think the philly 09 shows are vastly overrated and borderline sloppy. That show in CVille was not sloppy. A few small errors, but still overall incredibly tight. Some of the best versions of Sleight of Hand, Thumbing my Way, Footsteps, State of Love and Trust, and Sad. Ed got the words right to breath which is a miracle. Release was beautiful, I cried my damn eyes out at the show. Although not flawless, in my tree, breath, and big wave were much better than the average takes (especially since 2006).

Just out of curiosity; were you at the 2009 Spectrum shows? There may have been some mishaps, but the intangibles of that week in Philadelphia are hard to measure. In regards to the Charlottesville show, I wasn't there but I was at some of the other shows that people having been raving about from this tour. If people who were at Hartford for example say that Charlottesville was better, all I can say is that that is impressive. We all have favorite shows for different reasons, I don't even know where I would start my top 20 list. I was at the Randall's Island shows in 1996, the original, and still the best in my opinion, MSG shows in 1998, I guess those would top the list of the many shows dating back to 1992 that I have seen. If people were at some of those type of shows, and not basing their opinion on bootleg recordings, and they say that Charlottesville ranks up there then I seriously regret making Baltimore the last show I attended this tour.

I wasn't at any of the Philly shows. I would have had a fucking blast if I were though. Im not trashing those gigs, I was just noting they don't hold up as well on boot. Some shows are like that. My point of bringing it up was to say I don't think that will be the case with CVille. I think it will hold up on boot quite well. We all have our favorite shows, and we hold them in the highest regard. Up until CVille I hadn't went to that show yet. I loved bonnaroo and Atlanta 12, but CVille will hold that spot for me for a long time to come I think.

Btw, bonnaroo is a good example where the show doesn't hold up as well on boot. Although it's still really really good.

on2legs

mcrok wrote:

on2legs wrote:

I like the setlist but I'm not getting the hype. If you subtract the lightning bolt songs you had a great chance to see most of the remaining songs at any show on the Binaural tour.

You probably aren't getting the hype because, unfortunately, you were not there. You've been to enough shows by now to know it is more than just a setlist that puts a show on a higher plane.

But it's the setlist that people are swooning over. I get that it was a great show... Perhaps the best one this fall, but the idea it's a top 20 all time is preposterous.

Big Bank Hank

on2legs wrote:

mcrok wrote:

on2legs wrote:

I like the setlist but I'm not getting the hype. If you subtract the lightning bolt songs you had a great chance to see most of the remaining songs at any show on the Binaural tour.

You probably aren't getting the hype because, unfortunately, you were not there. You've been to enough shows by now to know it is more than just a setlist that puts a show on a higher plane.

But it's the setlist that people are swooning over. I get that it was a great show... Perhaps the best one this fall, but the idea it's a top 20 all time is .

why is it preposterous? because you, who admittedly did not go said so? because I am hearing a different tune from the people who actually attended the show, I think I will reserve judgement until I hear the bootleg

on2legs

It's preposterous because it's not in the top 200 let alone the top 20. I'm sure it was an amazing show but people around here have a habit of valuing the most recent show disproportionately relative to its actual impact. :roll:

ikiT

it was pretty amazing...

mcgruff10

Trying to rank top 20 shows of all time is so subjective. There are definitely many shows we all agree are classics; and there are others that you need to "be there" to understand. I always felt it was a mixture of experiencing the show and being blown away by the bootleg. We all can agree that the big three are Atlanta 94, soldiers field and Randall's. The first two I mention, the quality of the bootlegs are superior so we ve all listened to them a thousand times and are brought back almost twenty years ago. Randall's you had to dig a bit deeper to understand that the show was of historic proportions. Everyone says that Berlin from that year was classic, but was it or was it a bootleg we all listened to a thousand times?
Some shows stood the test of time and others will be considered for a little but then fall into the category of a "great show".
Is Charlottesville a top twenty show.....I don't think so.

JimmyV

bootlegger10 wrote:

If this setlist was played in Brooklyn or Philly it would have been voted the best with little doubt. Suffering from the classic case of Northeast bias. Been to 60+ shows and this was one of those great shows that will be talked about for years. Not the best but top 3 of the year I am sure so great enough.

Speaking as a resident of the northeast you are absolutely correct. If this show had been played in Philly in particular it would have been labelled the greatest thing to happen anywhere ever. Setlists don't always tell the whole story, true, but based on just setlists I would take this show over Philly 1 or 2 this year without a second thought.

on2legs

Multiple people posted that they were at Charlottesville, Philly, and Hartford, and genuinely feel that Charlottesville is the top show this tour. I trust their opinion and wouldn't argue with them. But ranking it top 20 all time... :nono:

motorcitymadman

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

RB307584 wrote:

Grand Rapids 06 the best of all time 50 plus shows!

Without a doubt, my favorite crazy Mary

Best version of Crazy Mary and WWS there is. Something happened during WWS that elevated the show to another level. You could feel it, and you can hear it on the record.

Could pretty much tell that was the all time CM version after it wrapped up. I don't need to hear that song again, that's how good it was.

inmyohiotree

Went to 4 shows this tour and Charlottesville had the WORST crowd by far. In order to be great you need it all. Good set list though

pjsteelerfan

inmyohiotree wrote:

Went to 4 shows this tour and Charlottesville had the WORST crowd by far. In order to be great you need it all. Good set list though

I was at 7 so far and I disagree, I thought the crowd was into it.

Still not sure I would put it into PJ all time top 20.

inmyohiotree

I was just comparing the 4 I went to....I thought crowd was lame. Pittsburgh and Brooklyn crowds were way better. Awesome on paper though

TamaDrummer91

pjsteelerfan wrote:

inmyohiotree wrote:

Went to 4 shows this tour and Charlottesville had the WORST crowd by far. In order to be great you need it all. Good set list though

I was at 7 so far and I disagree, I thought the crowd was into it.

Still not sure I would put it into PJ all time top 20.

Ed in particular thought that crowd in CVille was impressive. He seemed so happy with them and commented on it a few times. The bands pleasement with the crowd means the most to me. Good crowd.

JH6056

on2legs wrote:

It's preposterous because it's not in the top 200 let alone the top 20. I'm sure it was an amazing show but people around here have a habit of valuing the most recent show disproportionately relative to its actual impact. :roll:

Wow, this opinion (and others like it, which come up a lot) amazes me. Please explain on what basis you feel able to reduce the opinions of this many people who a) you don't know, b) you don't know their PJ show history, c) you don't know their overall show history (some of us are old and have seen live bands that, yes, have matched or even surpassed PJ live, and we STILL thought C'ville was special)?

On what basis do you so certainly, so absolutely, say that this C'ville show was not in PJ's top 200? Who says that about anything, but especially about a show that they weren't even at???

You are free to be totally unimpressed when you hear the boot/see vids. You are free to be uninspired by the setlist. But how exactly do you feel like you can judge and compare this to 200 or 20 shows WITHOUT EVEN HEARING IT first? And how can you judge and feel like you KNOW what OTHER people are judging this show based on?

And judging all of us that the only reason we're raving about it is because it's the most recent show? Seriously? Look at my post count, I don't post much on this board but I have been seeing this band since '93 and have never even written a fanview until this show. That's how special at least I thought it was.

This just amazes me every time I read these kinds of assumptions and generalizations. They're ridiculous. On on a band message board I guess they're not much more than ridiculous, but it's what it representes about how people see the world in general that freaks me out a lot more. But I digress.. back to "My top 20 is more credible than your top 20" game...

I'm jaded, I'm old, I don't rant and rave about shows here almost ever. And with all that, my humble opinion is: C'ville was super special, and I think a 20 yr old who's only seen 2 shows is JUST as QUALIFIED to judge that it was super special as I am with my "been to 55+ shows, some of them classics" history. Couldn't care less whether it actually makes it into the canons of best 200 or best 20 shows ever... but I DO care that people not dismiss others opinions as I'impossible" or "preposterous" AS IF you have any ability toknow WHAT these many opinions are based on. It's a load of BS to do that.

How about less judgement, more enjoyment!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JH6056

inmyohiotree wrote:

Went to 4 shows this tour and Charlottesville had the WORST crowd by far. In order to be great you need it all. Good set list though

I totally agree with you about the crowd, but my theory is that the crowd sucking for the 1st half of the show (and it was only the 1st half - they were a different crowd by 3/4 through to the end), my theory is the band turned it WAY UP to win over that crappy crowd and it produced a particularly amazing show.

That's just my theory, and my experience, but I'm sticking with it!

inmyohiotree

TamaDrummer91 wrote:

pjsteelerfan wrote:

inmyohiotree wrote:

Went to 4 shows this tour and Charlottesville had the WORST crowd by far. In order to be great you need it all. Good set list though

I was at 7 so far and I disagree, I thought the crowd was into it.

Still not sure I would put it into PJ all time top 20.

Ed in particular thought that crowd in CVille was impressive. He seemed so happy with them and commented on it a few times. The bands pleasement with the crowd means the most to me. Good crowd.

He's a performer..Of course he will act like the crowd was good. It called working the crowd. Not taking anything away from music I just thought crowd wasn't that good.

TamaDrummer91

inmyohiotree wrote:

He's a performer..Of course he will act like the crowd was good. It called working the crowd. Not taking anything away from music I just thought crowd wasn't that good.

Ed didn't work the crowds at Bristow 10, Newark 10, Sydney 2 2006, Manchester 1 2012, Raleigh 2003, or Seattle 2009. All of which he said either there or at the next show that the crowds sucked. If Ed was pleased, and said he was, I believe him. I don't say that for all performers. It's okay we have differing views on the crowds. But clearly a supermajority of fans almost unanimously feel CVille was THE show for leg 1 2013.

I agree, top 20 of all time is a stretch. Top 20 since 2006, easily.

on2legs

JH6056 wrote:

on2legs wrote:

It's preposterous because it's not in the top 200 let alone the top 20. I'm sure it was an amazing show but people around here have a habit of valuing the most recent show disproportionately relative to its actual impact. :roll:

Wow, this opinion (and others like it, which come up a lot) amazes me. Please explain on what basis you feel able to reduce the opinions of this many people who a) you don't know, b) you don't know their PJ show history, c) you don't know their overall show history (some of us are old and have seen live bands that, yes, have matched or even surpassed PJ live, and we STILL thought C'ville was special)?

On what basis do you so certainly, so absolutely, say that this C'ville show was not in PJ's top 200? Who says that about anything, but especially about a show that they weren't even at???

You are free to be totally unimpressed when you hear the boot/see vids. You are free to be uninspired by the setlist. But how exactly do you feel like you can judge and compare this to 200 or 20 shows WITHOUT EVEN HEARING IT first? And how can you judge and feel like you KNOW what OTHER people are judging this show based on?

And judging all of us that the only reason we're raving about it is because it's the most recent show? Seriously? Look at my post count, I don't post much on this board but I have been seeing this band since '93 and have never even written a fanview until this show. That's how special at least I thought it was.

This just amazes me every time I read these kinds of assumptions and generalizations. They're ridiculous. On on a band message board I guess they're not much more than ridiculous, but it's what it representes about how people see the world in general that freaks me out a lot more. But I digress.. back to "My top 20 is more credible than your top 20" game...

I'm jaded, I'm old, I don't rant and rave about shows here almost ever. And with all that, my humble opinion is: C'ville was super special, and I think a 20 yr old who's only seen 2 shows is JUST as QUALIFIED to judge that it was super special as I am with my "been to 55+ shows, some of them classics" history. Couldn't care less whether it actually makes it into the canons of best 200 or best 20 shows ever... but I DO care that people not dismiss others opinions as I'impossible" or "preposterous" AS IF you have any ability toknow WHAT these many opinions are based on. It's a load of BS to do that.

How about less judgement, more enjoyment!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Head over to the two feet thick concert chronology and start with 1990 reading the show descriptions. Are you really telling me you won't reach a top 20 of shows before October 29, 2013?