OOOObama double whammy

Godfather.

(CNN) -- When it comes to leadership and personal responsibility, President Barack Obama has made his stance very clear: "The buck stops with me."

It's a phrase he's echoed countless times in the past. But now, he's dealing with an accountability double-whammy -- fallout from the botched Obamacare website and global fury over the wiretapping of some allied leaders' conversations.

So what all did the President know, and when did he find out? Depends on who you ask.

Some U.S. officials have said that Obama didn't know about problems with the health care enrollment site before it launched and that he only recently learned about a National Security Agency operation that wiretapped German Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone for a decade.
"It is my understanding that President Obama was not aware Chancellor Merkel's communications were being collected since 2002," Senate Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein said. "That is a big problem."

But other officials said Obama -- or at least his White House staff -- did know about it.

Questions about what the President knew and when he knew it have important implications, analysts say. If Obama was aware, that could mean he isn't being clear with the American public now. And if he wasn't aware, that could mean his own staff kept him in the dark.

"There's really no good answer," said Republican strategist Kevin Madden. "If he knew, essentially we're being misled by different people in the administration about the extent of the President's knowledge. If he didn't know, it's an abdication of even the most basic responsibilities of the command and control over very important parts of his administration, and that becomes a problem."

White House: Don't tie issues together

In an exclusive interview with CNN last week, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said the President didn't know of problems with the Affordable Care Act's website until after its fumbled launch on Oct. 1 -- even though insurance companies had been complaining and the site crashed during a pre-launch test run.

White House spokesman Jay Carney declined to detail what Obama knew and when. On Monday, he said tying topics like problems with the Obamacare website and reports about NSA spying is "conflating a bunch of very disparate issues."

Carney said he wouldn't "get into individual reports about specific programs," and would provide more details once a White House review of U.S. surveillance is complete.

Feinstein said the White House has told her that data collection on U.S. allies will stop.

But a senior administration official said Feinstein's statement was not completely accurate. The official said some changes have been made, but they are not across-the-board changes in policy like terminating intelligence collection aimed at allies.

Germany's not the only country seething over the reports of U.S. spying. Spain has summoned U.S. Ambssador James Costos to discuss an El Pais newspaper report that quoted unnamed sources as saying the NSA spied on Spanish officials and politicians.

Much of the focus is on expanded surveillance under the Patriot Act passed in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Many of the secrets spilling out about the NSA's surveillance program came from leaks by former agency contractor Edward Snowden, who was granted temporary political asylum in Russia.

Experts: Not every detail disclosed

It's plausible that Obama wouldn't know about specific surveillance targets, said CNN National Security Analyst Fran Townsend, a member of the CIA external advisory board.

She said overall intelligence collection priorities are well-known by the White House. "Specific targets, however, (like) Angela Merkel's cell phone, are not the sort of thing discussed with the President of the United States."

No one should expect the President to know everything the NSA is doing, said Julian Zelizer, a professor of history and public affairs at Princeton University.

"But when you're talking about the surveillance of world leaders, and an issue that's been controversial for a while now, you would expect that there's some knowledge either by the President or people surrounding him. ... I do think there's surprise that this was off the radar in the inner circles of the White House."

Time for change?

Republican Rep. Peter King, a key member of the Homeland Security Committee, said if the surveillance happened without the President's knowledge, it has larger implications.

"I would say if the President did not know, that raises very serious questions about what he's doing as chief executive. The fact he would be going into negotiations and discussions and meetings with Angela Merkel or French leaders -- or any leaders for that matter -- and not be aware that there was surveillance going on of the private phone calls, to me either something is definitely wrong in his administration or he just has a totally hands-off attitude. To me, this is unacceptable."

Ross Douthat, a CNN political commentator and a columnist for The New York Times, wondered whether some officials would lose their jobs if the President really wasn't informed.

"The question becomes, why do the people who failed to keep him in the loop still have their jobs?" he asked.

No matter what Obama knew, or when, some say it's time for a new approach.

"He has often said that he didn't know what was going on with the (HealthCare.gov) website. ... He can't pretend he doesn't know and walk away from problems anymore, because he has been caught too many times out of the loop," said A.B. Stoddard, associate editor of The Hill. "He can't do his job that way."


change you can believe in.....the buck stops here :fp: ....I'lll bet it does.....



Godfather.

Godfather.

time and time again I have said "obama is not the man for the job"


Godfather.

Byrnzie

That's funny...you had nothing to say in the Edward Snowden/N.S.A thread, but now that you have a chance to bash Obama your ears have pricked up.

Interesting. I wonder if all Republicans will now start jumping on board this bandwagon?

badbrains

Byrnzie wrote:

That's funny...you had nothing to say in the Edward Snowden/N.S.A thread, but now that you have a chance to bash Obama your ears have pricked up.

Interesting. I wonder if all Republicans will now start jumping on board this bandwagon?

Dnt even bother byrnzie, some people have huge hard ons against Obama. No matter what proof or argument you show, the sheep remain in the marching line......

Godfather.

badbrains wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

That's funny...you had nothing to say in the Edward Snowden/N.S.A thread, but now that you have a chance to bash Obama your ears have pricked up.

Interesting. I wonder if all Republicans will now start jumping on board this bandwagon?

Dnt even bother byrnzie, some people have huge hard ons against Obama. No matter what proof or argument you show, the sheep remain in the marching line......

me a sheep ??????? dude you have had several big gulps of the cool aid it sounds.

Godfather.

Godfather.

Byrnzie wrote:

That's funny...you had nothing to say in the Edward Snowden/N.S.A thread, but now that you have a chance to bash Obama your ears have pricked up.

Interesting. I wonder if all Republicans will now start jumping on board this bandwagon?

someone sent this to me and I thought of you man.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle


Godfather.

brianlux

The Affordable Care Act is looking more and more like a boondoggle which is really unfortunate because there are some good ideas at its core. But to place all the blame for this on Obama is not seeing the whole picture. It's a classic clusterfuck.

badbrains

Godfather. wrote:

badbrains wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

That's funny...you had nothing to say in the Edward Snowden/N.S.A thread, but now that you have a chance to bash Obama your ears have pricked up.

Interesting. I wonder if all Republicans will now start jumping on board this bandwagon?

Dnt even bother byrnzie, some people have huge hard ons against Obama. No matter what proof or argument you show, the sheep remain in the marching line......

me a sheep ??????? dude you have had several big gulps of the cool aid it sounds.

Godfather.

Kool-aid? Why cuz obamas black? And here I thought you WERENT a bigot, shame on me. :roll:

hedonist

I place blame on everyone who passed the buck along the way, as well as anyone - Obama included - with whom that buck "stopped".

badbrains

hedonist wrote:

I place blame on everyone who passed the buck along the way, as well as anyone - Obama included - with whom that buck "stopped".

Totally agree, all the way from the top dog down to all the senators and congressmen/women. All they care about is themselves and dnt give a shit about any of us.

Godfather.

badbrains......because obama's black :shock: I hadn't noticed...just like you to pull a race card.. :fp:


Godfather.

Jason P

All nations spy on each other. I don't see what the big deal is. That is why countries have counterintelligence agencies.

I suggest the Germans ramp their counterintelligence up if the US was able to monitor her conversations for a full decade without their knowledge. (which seems unlikely they didn't know or thwart the US)

Better Dan

badbrains wrote:

Kool-aid? Why cuz obamas black? And here I thought you WERENT a bigot, shame on me. :roll:

:wtf:

:fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:

Wow, this comment is just ridiculous!!! Yes, if you continue to blindly defend Obama after some of the things going on in his administration then you are definitely on some serious kool-aid. I voted for Obama, by the way. Am I a bigot for daring to criticize him? :crazy:

Better Dan

brianlux wrote:

The Affordable Care Act is looking more and more like a boondoggle which is really unfortunate because there are some good ideas at its core. But to place all the blame for this on Obama is not seeing the whole picture. It's a classic clusterfuck.

Obama made promises that he couldn't keep. Would people have been as supportive of it if they knew some wouldn't be able to keep their insurance/doctors and that costs would go up? Of course the blame is not squarely on Obama, but when is he going to take responsibility for his administration? He never knows anything and is never responsible for anything.

callen

brianlux wrote:

The Affordable Care Act is looking more and more like a boondoggle which is really unfortunate because there are some good ideas at its core. But to place all the blame for this on Obama is not seeing the whole picture. It's a classic clusterfuck.

Just another government program that will have lots of problems due to the nature of being run by the govr ment but it is good and unless its repealed will turn out okay as is the case for other such programs. In two years it will be refined and be okay

callen

Better Dan wrote:

brianlux wrote:

The Affordable Care Act is looking more and more like a boondoggle which is really unfortunate because there are some good ideas at its core. But to place all the blame for this on Obama is not seeing the whole picture. It's a classic clusterfuck.

Obama made promises that he couldn't keep. Would people have been as supportive of it if they knew some wouldn't be able to keep their insurance/doctors and that costs would go up? Of course the blame is not squarely on Obama, but when is he going to take responsibility for his administration? He never knows anything and is never responsible for anything.

The insurance companies will make this as painful as possible.

Better Dan

NBC News is reporting that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 millions consumers who buy their insurance individually will get a cancellation ontice over the next year. According to the story, the administration knew this since at leas mid 2010. Obama continued to state "if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan" until at least 2012.

The White House is arguing that these people will be getting "better" coverage, but they are basically being forced to buy more expensive insurance that they might not want or be be able to afford.

Go Beavers

Better Dan wrote:

NBC News is reporting that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 millions consumers who buy their insurance individually will get a cancellation ontice over the next year. According to the story, the administration knew this since at leas mid 2010. Obama continued to state "if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan" until at least 2012.

The White House is arguing that these people will be getting "better" coverage, but they are basically being forced to buy more expensive insurance that they might not want or be be able to afford.

It'll be interesting to see how many people end up spending more than their previous plan. At this point, we don't know the number.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

good god. of course the buck stops with him. he's taking responsibility for the actions of his presidency. does that mean he's going to be privvy to every stupid little fucking detail?

taking responsibility and knowing all the minutae are two completely different things.

Jason P

Go Beavers wrote:

Better Dan wrote:

NBC News is reporting that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 millions consumers who buy their insurance individually will get a cancellation ontice over the next year. According to the story, the administration knew this since at leas mid 2010. Obama continued to state "if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan" until at least 2012.

The White House is arguing that these people will be getting "better" coverage, but they are basically being forced to buy more expensive insurance that they might not want or be be able to afford.

It'll be interesting to see how many people end up spending more than their previous plan. At this point, we don't know the number.

States that only offer one or two insurance options will see an increase, while states with more competition will see a decrease.

Again, not allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines is one of the problems with the high cost of healthcare. And it was one of the multiple problems that wasn't addressed.

As far as I can tell, the only major problem that was actually addressed is that insurance companies can no longer deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions. That doesn't address cost, but it was a problem.

Godfather.

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

good god. of course the buck stops with him. he's taking responsibility for the actions of his presidency. does that mean he's going to be privvy to every stupid little fucking detail?

taking responsibility and knowing all the minutae are two completely different things.

that's what we the people pay him for right ? ...no more excuses man the guy is sloppy.

Godfather.