Mom of girl charged in bullying suicide arrested

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mickeyrat wrote:

Or is it just that these kinds of things are reported more? I'd say the only increase has been due to population size. Exponential growth with a higher reporting rate makes it seem more prevalent? Just a thought.

There's no question that this is an aspect of it. Ignorance is bliss.

To this point as well... it's tough to gauge exactly the what the effects are on society as we are saturated with every bit of news we might hopefully wish to come across. Does hearing of these items make us better and more aware or does it desensitize us?

I believe that a large part of the problem is as I tried to express earlier- a rather significant shift in values has occurred and we are seeing the effects of this- for better and for worse.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dancepartner wrote:

well said thirty bills.

Thanks Dance.

I have noticed you took a break. Hope things are well.

polaris_x

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I think it's a little bigger than that, P. It's quite a bit bigger than that.

What you speak of has been a characteristic of society since primitive man.

I think it would be more significant to suggest that the brutal displays of humanity that we continually see are because we have lowered the bar for what acceptable behaviour might be. From smaller aspects of our lives such as the fact that our weekly television shows are laced with highly questionable content to larger aspects of our lives such as the fact that a guy could be convicted for 50 pedophilia charges and repeatedly released to re-offend.

And I could go on- such as speaking to the fact that the concept of family has been obliterated and children are continually lost when adults fail to place them first and make sacrifices for them as they tend to their own interests.

for sure ... there are other aspects such as we've lost the sense of community and every person is out for themselves ... our social infrastructure has been destroyed ... but through it all - i do think societal obsession with violence as a means of resolution is at the heart of it ...

i mean - some kid just shot a teacher and a couple of kids yesterday and it's another ho hum day ...

Thirty Bills Unpaid

polaris_x wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I think it's a little bigger than that, P. It's quite a bit bigger than that.

What you speak of has been a characteristic of society since primitive man.

I think it would be more significant to suggest that the brutal displays of humanity that we continually see are because we have lowered the bar for what acceptable behaviour might be. From smaller aspects of our lives such as the fact that our weekly television shows are laced with highly questionable content to larger aspects of our lives such as the fact that a guy could be convicted for 50 pedophilia charges and repeatedly released to re-offend.

And I could go on- such as speaking to the fact that the concept of family has been obliterated and children are continually lost when adults fail to place them first and make sacrifices for them as they tend to their own interests.

for sure ... there are other aspects such as we've lost the sense of community and every person is out for themselves ... our social infrastructure has been destroyed ... but through it all - i do think societal obsession with violence as a means of resolution is at the heart of it ...

i mean - some kid just shot a teacher and a couple of kids yesterday and it's another ho hum day ...

And I wouldn't deny that there is an element of truth to what you have suggested. It's just very complex and at the end of the day... we are left wondering what to do and how to respond. If everyone played nicely... we wouldn't have to discuss what to do given 'x" has occurred. But, 'x' does occur and as a result... we're forced to respond in a manner that serves justice. The very idea of 'justice' is highly debatable. I'm not saying I am right with the DP (as this is what you were getting at)... but I'm not prepared to suggest I'm wrong either. We are just different with regards to how we feel we should respond to the violent acts that are shoved down our throats.

hedonist

Some spot-on posts in this thread.

I've mentioned ripple-effects before and it's no different here. To me, it all begins with the initial circle of home and family.

What kind of parent(s) are you? Are you fostering an entitled, self-absorbed child? A wanna-be version of yourself?

Are you spending actual time with them, talking, listening, leading by example? Teaching them honor, humbleness, charity, kindness, ethics, responsibility...the list goes on...by actually living a life with those qualities?

I think many horrific, as well as just plain shitty, acts wouldn't happen if a solid, stable foundation were in place...if those qualities were in place (silly me, I know).

The concept of playing nicely - even going beyond - would be more the norm than something we read about to "restore our faith in humanity" (using that term because I see it all over and it fits here).

bootlegger10

Part of the problem is the internet and it is everywhere and just about inescapable for some. There was a lot of bullying going on over the years, but it was localized to school and the kids could go home. Now the kids can't go home and feel safe because they are bullied on the internet for everyone to see.

The internet is probably the greatest and worst invention of man (just a thought I haven't vetted).

We are slaves to the internet and email. It makes us work more, not less.

ajedigecko

hedonist wrote:

Some spot-on posts in this thread.

I've mentioned ripple-effects before and it's no different here. To me, it all begins with the initial circle of home and family.

What kind of parent(s) are you? Are you fostering an entitled, self-absorbed child? A wanna-be version of yourself?

Are you spending actual time with them, talking, listening, leading by example? Teaching them honor, humbleness, charity, kindness, ethics, responsibility...the list goes on...by actually living a life with those qualities?

I think many horrific, as well as just plain shitty, acts wouldn't happen if a solid, stable foundation were in place...if those qualities were in place (silly me, I know).

The concept of playing nicely - even going beyond - would be more the norm than something we read about to "restore our faith in humanity" (using that term because I see it all over and it fits here).

Parents are the keystone.

polaris_x

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

And I wouldn't deny that there is an element of truth to what you have suggested. It's just very complex and at the end of the day... we are left wondering what to do and how to respond. If everyone played nicely... we wouldn't have to discuss what to do given 'x" has occurred. But, 'x' does occur and as a result... we're forced to respond in a manner that serves justice. The very idea of 'justice' is highly debatable. I'm not saying I am right with the DP (as this is what you were getting at)... but I'm not prepared to suggest I'm wrong either. We are just different with regards to how we feel we should respond to the violent acts that are shoved down our throats.

it's not just the DP ... it's the desire everywhere ... take the peeping tom thread .. everyone wants that guy severely beaten ... almost any issue that comes up - there is a high % of people that think violence is a reasonable resolution manner ...

Thirty Bills Unpaid

polaris_x wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

And I wouldn't deny that there is an element of truth to what you have suggested. It's just very complex and at the end of the day... we are left wondering what to do and how to respond. If everyone played nicely... we wouldn't have to discuss what to do given 'x" has occurred. But, 'x' does occur and as a result... we're forced to respond in a manner that serves justice. The very idea of 'justice' is highly debatable. I'm not saying I am right with the DP (as this is what you were getting at)... but I'm not prepared to suggest I'm wrong either. We are just different with regards to how we feel we should respond to the violent acts that are shoved down our throats.

it's not just the DP ... it's the desire everywhere ... take the peeping tom thread .. everyone wants that guy severely beaten ... almost any issue that comes up - there is a high % of people that think violence is a reasonable resolution manner ...

I understand what you are saying. You prefaced your first post with the 'rehashing an old argument'... and that is what I referred back to.

To me it's not quite as simple as saying, "You think violence is a reasonable resolution manner." How does one effectively resolve some pervert leering in a window jerking off while looking at a 5 year old? Or someone murdering someone? There is no 'resolution' to these scenarios. I, for one, am not interested in 'working with the offender' to try and make things better. I wish for none of it to happen at all, but in the event someone has to go and hurt someone... there is only a response and to me... this response should reflect society's disdain for the crime: let the punishment fit the crime.

The alternative to violence is what I would consider a situation we have in our town. A sick freak has numerous pedophilia convictions. We keep pushing him back onto the streets and he keeps violating conditions of parole.

The soft hand doesn't work either.

polaris_x

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I understand what you are saying. You prefaced your first post with the 'rehashing an old argument'... and that is what I referred back to.

To me it's not quite as simple as saying, "You think violence is a reasonable resolution manner." How does one effectively resolve some pervert leering in a window jerking off while looking at a 5 year old? Or someone murdering someone? There is no 'resolution' to these scenarios. I, for one, am not interested in 'working with the offender' to try and make things better. I wish for none of it to happen at all, but in the event someone has to go and hurt someone... there is only a response and to me... this response should reflect society's disdain for the crime: let the punishment fit the crime.

The alternative to violence is what I would consider a situation we have in our town. A sick freak has numerous pedophilia convictions. We keep pushing him back onto the streets and he keeps violating conditions of parole.

The soft hand doesn't work either.

the soft hand works in other places ... why are violent crime rates so much higher in the US? ...

no one ever is interested in dealing with the root causes of the problems ... take terrorism for instance - it's easy to blame a religion or "our way of life" and then go bomb innocent people and not feel any guilt ... why is it that al qaeda is as strong as ever and expanding around the world? ... no bin laden and drone strikes are killing off "top officials" weekly ... it's because violence begets violence ... when your first reaction to something you don't like is rage or anger ... you end up doing something that doesn't make the situation better nor prevent it from happening again ..

in trying to bring it back to the OP ... what kind of kids do you think this stepmom is gonna raise when they get older? ... what do you think their odds of committing violence is gonna be? ... less or more of they haven't been beaten at their early age?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

polaris_x wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I understand what you are saying. You prefaced your first post with the 'rehashing an old argument'... and that is what I referred back to.

To me it's not quite as simple as saying, "You think violence is a reasonable resolution manner." How does one effectively resolve some pervert leering in a window jerking off while looking at a 5 year old? Or someone murdering someone? There is no 'resolution' to these scenarios. I, for one, am not interested in 'working with the offender' to try and make things better. I wish for none of it to happen at all, but in the event someone has to go and hurt someone... there is only a response and to me... this response should reflect society's disdain for the crime: let the punishment fit the crime.

The alternative to violence is what I would consider a situation we have in our town. A sick freak has numerous pedophilia convictions. We keep pushing him back onto the streets and he keeps violating conditions of parole.

The soft hand doesn't work either.

the soft hand works in other places ... why are violent crime rates so much higher in the US? ...

no one ever is interested in dealing with the root causes of the problems ... take terrorism for instance - it's easy to blame a religion or "our way of life" and then go bomb innocent people and not feel any guilt ... why is it that al qaeda is as strong as ever and expanding around the world? ... no bin laden and drone strikes are killing off "top officials" weekly ... it's because violence begets violence ... when your first reaction to something you don't like is rage or anger ... you end up doing something that doesn't make the situation better nor prevent it from happening again ..

in trying to bring it back to the OP ... what kind of kids do you think this stepmom is gonna raise when they get older? ... what do you think their odds of committing violence is gonna be? ... less or more of they haven't been beaten at their early age?

To try and tidy up... there is no perfect answer to the violent problems that plague society. There are differing opinions on causal factors and remedies, but there are examples that belie all philosophies. There is no definitive 'correct' answer.

I think you seek answers to the questions you ask to support your premise. Regardless, I'll try and answer them based on what I know and have come to understand. Kids are at their most influential early. As they age, they tend to look to their peer group for the behaviours necessary to belong and feel valued. I have necountered many kids who have been beaten and are beaten. Some become aggressive. Some become passive and insecure. Some become reclusive. Some are damaged significantly. Some overcome and are fine. The reasons for the variety of outcomes is multi-faceted: strong mentors such as coaches and teachers help; early interventions by caring professionals help; and, probably most importantly in later formative years, strong peer networks assist in helping shape appropriate mentalities.

Kids are resiliant. In general, they want to do well and they want to please. Even the best kids get into scraps and behave poorly at times. The true 'violent offenders' we come across are anomalies. They are a by-product of 'perfect storms' where their genetics meet experiences that ultimately shape a person detached from society and humanity.

So... I hope that the early experiences these children have had can be overcome with the introduction of more positive experiences. Given this coming to fruition... they stand a pretty good chance of overcoming. Failing this... ther eis a strong chance they will perpetuate the cycle.