Mom of girl charged in bullying suicide arrested

Thirty Bills Unpaid

In short, the mother of a girl who stalked and bullied a 12 year old girl until she jumped to her death is being charged with 'unrelated' child abuse and child neglect. She punched a 12 year old boy in the face and another 12 year old in the back and shoulders after they had been fighting.

I guess, if we didn't already know through presumption, her bully daughter truly became a product of her environment. Am I the only one that feels parents should be held partially responsible for the actions of their children? Would parents take their responsibilities a little more seriously if consequences were more severe for absentee or negligent parenting?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10 ... arges?lite

brianlux

Yeah, that's a tough one though. Where do you draw the line? Should my parents have been partially responsible for my breaking a window in school in the six grade because a friend of mine and I were playing soccer indoors? Probably not. But the circumstances here- a violent more and a bullying child- seem closely connected. The tangle involved in forming legal parameters here would probably be tricky at best. It will be interesting to see how this incident plays out.

All that said, I'm disgusted by people who bully, no matter what their age. Bullying is one of the lowest forms of human behavior.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

brianlux wrote:

Yeah, that's a tough one though. Where do you draw the line? Should my parents have been partially responsible for my breaking a window in school in the six grade because a friend of mine and I were playing soccer indoors? Probably not. But the circumstances here- a violent more and a bullying child- seem closely connected. The tangle involved in forming legal parameters here would probably be tricky at best. It will be interesting to see how this incident plays out.

All that said, I'm disgusted by people who bully, no matter what their age. Bullying is one of the lowest forms of human behavior.

Well... it wouldn't be unreasonable for your parents to pay for the window.

And all legalities tend to become complex. Some fights are worth fighting and I'm all for having parents be accountable for negligent parenting if circumstances warrant such.

If every parent took their responsibilities very seriously, made the necessary sacrifices, and did everything they could to raise the children they have brought onto the earth... would it be fair to say the world would be a much better place?

How does society raise our parenting standards?

brianlux

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Yeah, that's a tough one though. Where do you draw the line? Should my parents have been partially responsible for my breaking a window in school in the six grade because a friend of mine and I were playing soccer indoors? Probably not. But the circumstances here- a violent more and a bullying child- seem closely connected. The tangle involved in forming legal parameters here would probably be tricky at best. It will be interesting to see how this incident plays out.

All that said, I'm disgusted by people who bully, no matter what their age. Bullying is one of the lowest forms of human behavior.

Well... it wouldn't be unreasonable for your parents to pay for the window.

And all legalities tend to become complex. Some fights are worth fighting and I'm all for having parents be accountable for negligent parenting if circumstances warrant such.

If every parent took their responsibilities very seriously, made the necessary sacrifices, and did everything they could to raise the children they have brought onto the earth... would it be fair to say the world would be a much better place?

How does society raise our parenting standards?

Actually they did pay for it but it cost me a lot of allowance and extra work to pay them back. Smart parents!

Yeah, really, parents need to be more responsible that way. More often than I care to think, parents bring their kids into the bookstore and let them loose and they go ape shit and then we have to clean up after them. My revenge? Sometimes if a bratty kid asks what the latched floor board door in the kid's section is for (there are three in the store that give us access to vents and stuff under the building), I tell them that's where we keep the dragons in case anyone misbehaves.

Shawshank

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

In short, the mother of a girl who stalked and bullied a 12 year old girl until she jumped to her death is being charged with 'unrelated' child abuse and child neglect. She punched a 12 year old boy in the face and another 12 year old in the back and shoulders after they had been fighting.

I guess, if we didn't already know through presumption, her bully daughter truly became a product of her environment. Am I the only one that feels parents should be held partially responsible for the actions of their children? Would parents take their responsibilities a little more seriously if consequences were more severe for absentee or negligent parenting?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10 ... arges?lite

I 100% agree with you. At that age...actually I'd say anything maybe 16 and under, yes the parents absolutely should be held responsible. A vital part of being a parent is keeping tabs on your kids...and yes, sometimes that means snooping around to see what they are up to and what they are saying when you aren't looking. It's not being nosy, it's not invading their privacy (ok well maybe a little), it's a responsibility. It's easier these days to track their activities, and I don't think parents should feel ashamed for doing so. Kids can, and often do, live two different lives. The life they have with family, and the life they have with friends are drastically different. It's why the first thing you hear from parents is usually "oh but she was just an angel, she would never do anything like this". They can literally be two different people. It's a parents job to know what that other person is like if it does indeed exist.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Shawshank wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

In short, the mother of a girl who stalked and bullied a 12 year old girl until she jumped to her death is being charged with 'unrelated' child abuse and child neglect. She punched a 12 year old boy in the face and another 12 year old in the back and shoulders after they had been fighting.

I guess, if we didn't already know through presumption, her bully daughter truly became a product of her environment. Am I the only one that feels parents should be held partially responsible for the actions of their children? Would parents take their responsibilities a little more seriously if consequences were more severe for absentee or negligent parenting?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10 ... arges?lite

I 100% agree with you. At that age...actually I'd say anything maybe 16 and under, yes the parents absolutely should be held responsible. A vital part of being a parent is keeping tabs on your kids...and yes, sometimes that means snooping around to see what they are up to and what they are saying when you aren't looking. It's not being nosy, it's not invading their privacy (ok well maybe a little), it's a responsibility. It's easier these days to track their activities, and I don't think parents should feel ashamed for doing so. Kids can, and often do, live two different lives. The life they have with family, and the life they have with friends are drastically different. It's why the first thing you hear from parents is usually "oh but she was just an angel, she would never do anything like this". They can literally be two different people. It's a parents job to know what that other person is like if it does indeed exist.

Keeping tabs on your children is very easy to do if a parent has managed to develop a relationship based on trust with their child. This is not easy to do, but I really think it's key. If your child trusts you to respond in a manner that is not threatening to them, they will be open in consultation and allow you to help in all aspects of their life.

The easy part of parenting is paying the soccer fees, cooking meals, and buying phones. The difficult part cannot be measured, but it's evident when it has or has not occurred.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Video footage released:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp=5 ... &#53320528

Ridiculous.

brianlux

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Video footage released:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp=5 ... &#53320528

Ridiculous.

Pathetic. What a low-life.

mickeyrat

brianlux wrote:

Yeah, that's a tough one though. Where do you draw the line? Should my parents have been partially responsible for my breaking a window in school in the six grade because a friend of mine and I were playing soccer indoors? Probably not. But the circumstances here- a violent more and a bullying child- seem closely connected. The tangle involved in forming legal parameters here would probably be tricky at best. It will be interesting to see how this incident plays out.

All that said, I'm disgusted by people who bully, no matter what their age. Bullying is one of the lowest forms of human behavior.

if you hadnt been allowed to play ball in the house then this broken window at school wouldnt have happened!!

brianlux

mickeyrat wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Yeah, that's a tough one though. Where do you draw the line? Should my parents have been partially responsible for my breaking a window in school in the six grade because a friend of mine and I were playing soccer indoors? Probably not. But the circumstances here- a violent more and a bullying child- seem closely connected. The tangle involved in forming legal parameters here would probably be tricky at best. It will be interesting to see how this incident plays out.

All that said, I'm disgusted by people who bully, no matter what their age. Bullying is one of the lowest forms of human behavior.

if you hadnt been allowed to play ball in the house then this broken window at school wouldnt have happened!!

Believe me, we kids did much worse things than play ball in the house... but only when no one was home.

lukin2006

brianlux wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Yeah, that's a tough one though. Where do you draw the line? Should my parents have been partially responsible for my breaking a window in school in the six grade because a friend of mine and I were playing soccer indoors? Probably not. But the circumstances here- a violent more and a bullying child- seem closely connected. The tangle involved in forming legal parameters here would probably be tricky at best. It will be interesting to see how this incident plays out.

All that said, I'm disgusted by people who bully, no matter what their age. Bullying is one of the lowest forms of human behavior.

Well... it wouldn't be unreasonable for your parents to pay for the window.

And all legalities tend to become complex. Some fights are worth fighting and I'm all for having parents be accountable for negligent parenting if circumstances warrant such.

If every parent took their responsibilities very seriously, made the necessary sacrifices, and did everything they could to raise the children they have brought onto the earth... would it be fair to say the world would be a much better place?

How does society raise our parenting standards?

Actually they did pay for it but it cost me a lot of allowance and extra work to pay them back. Smart parents!

Yeah, really, parents need to be more responsible that way. More often than I care to think, parents bring their kids into the bookstore and let them loose and they go ape shit and then we have to clean up after them. My revenge? Sometimes if a bratty kid asks what the latched floor board door in the kid's section is for (there are three in the store that give us access to vents and stuff under the building), I tell them that's where we keep the dragons in case anyone misbehaves.

there's the difference ... you were held accountable, in my opinion your parents did the responsible thing ... I know many people with kids and its very easy to see why society is quite different today than it was when I was growing up, quite simply not nearly enough parents make there kids account for there actions ... when I was growing up it would have been the exception if someone i knew was behaving badly and the parents didn't act to address the problem ... nowadays it seems like its the other way around ...

ajedigecko

The mom should have placed her daughter on a corner and display a sign stating - i am a bully.

Godfather.

brianlux wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Video footage released:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp=5 ... &#53320528

Ridiculous.

Pathetic. What a low-life.

the apple dose not fall far from the tree, this woman needs at least 5 to 10 years in prison,at her age she sure as shit knows better than to sock young kids...what a bi**h.


Godfather.

mickeyrat

ajedigecko wrote:

The mom should have placed her daughter on a corner and display a sign stating - i am a bully.

they could stand next to each other, both with a sign that says "I'm with the bully" and an arrow.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mickeyrat wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

The mom should have placed her daughter on a corner and display a sign stating - i am a bully.

they could stand next to each other, both with a sign that says "I'm with the bully" and an arrow.

Too many car accidents with people driving by trying to make sense of this visual!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Godfather. wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Video footage released:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21134540/vp=5 ... &#53320528

Ridiculous.

Pathetic. What a low-life.

the apple dose not fall far from the tree, this woman needs at least 5 to 10 years in prison,at her age she sure as shit knows better than to sock young kids...what a bi**h.


Godfather.

I keep thinking, "What is happening to society? How have we arrived here?"

dancepartner

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Shawshank wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Keeping tabs on your children is very easy to do if a parent has managed to develop a relationship based on trust with their child. This is not easy to do, but I really think it's key. If your child trusts you to respond in a manner that is not threatening to them, they will be open in consultation and allow you to help in all aspects of their life.

The easy part of parenting is paying the soccer fees, cooking meals, and buying phones. The difficult part cannot be measured, but it's evident when it has or has not occurred.

well said thirty bills.

polaris_x

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I keep thinking, "What is happening to society? How have we arrived here?"

because we choose to solve our problems through violence ... i don't want to rehash an old discussion but this is case in point ...

PJ88

lukin2006 wrote:

there's the difference ... you were held accountable, in my opinion your parents did the responsible thing ... I know many people with kids and its very easy to see why society is quite different today than it was when I was growing up, quite simply not nearly enough parents make there kids account for there actions ... when I was growing up it would have been the exception if someone i knew was behaving badly and the parents didn't act to address the problem ... nowadays it seems like its the other way around ...

So true. My neighbors on either side of me have kids the same age as my kid (kids range from 5-9). Almost every Friday and Saturday they (parents) sit around at night and just drink and drink. The kids are left to their own devices until the parents call it a night at anywhere from midnight to 2AM. Totally unsupervised. While my kid is fed, washed, read to and put to bed before 8PM! The parents are always texting me or my wife to come out and either bring my kid or come over with him asleep in bed! We say no thanks and are then not acknowledged for a few days or until they get over us not going out. Not that we care what they think, but some of the kids are already out of control with their mouths and attitude.
I think the parents need to tighten it up (themselves and kids) or they are going to have real problems on their hands when the kids get older. It just seems like some parents today only care about themselves and if they are meeting their own needs.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

polaris_x wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I keep thinking, "What is happening to society? How have we arrived here?"

because we choose to solve our problems through violence ... i don't want to rehash an old discussion but this is case in point ...

I think it's a little bigger than that, P. It's quite a bit bigger than that.

What you speak of has been a characteristic of society since primitive man.

I think it would be more significant to suggest that the brutal displays of humanity that we continually see are because we have lowered the bar for what acceptable behaviour might be. From smaller aspects of our lives such as the fact that our weekly television shows are laced with highly questionable content to larger aspects of our lives such as the fact that a guy could be convicted for 50 pedophilia charges and repeatedly released to re-offend.

And I could go on- such as speaking to the fact that the concept of family has been obliterated and children are continually lost when adults fail to place them first and make sacrifices for them as they tend to their own interests.

mickeyrat

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I keep thinking, "What is happening to society? How have we arrived here?"

because we choose to solve our problems through violence ... i don't want to rehash an old discussion but this is case in point ...

I think it's a little bigger than that, P. It's quite a bit bigger than that.

What you speak of has been a characteristic of society since primitive man.

I think it would be more significant to suggest that the brutal displays of humanity that we continually see are because we have lowered the bar for what acceptable behaviour might be. From smaller aspects of our lives such as the fact that our weekly television shows are laced with highly questionable content to larger aspects of our lives such as the fact that a guy could be convicted for 50 pedophilia charges and repeatedly released to re-offend.

And I could go on- such as speaking to the fact that the concept of family has been obliterated and children are continually lost when adults fail to place them first and make sacrifices for them as they tend to their own interests.

Or is it just that these kinds of things are reported more? I'd say the only increase has been due to population size. Exponential growth with a higher reporting rate makes it seem more prevalent? Just a thought.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mickeyrat wrote:

Or is it just that these kinds of things are reported more? I'd say the only increase has been due to population size. Exponential growth with a higher reporting rate makes it seem more prevalent? Just a thought.

There's no question that this is an aspect of it. Ignorance is bliss.

To this point as well... it's tough to gauge exactly the what the effects are on society as we are saturated with every bit of news we might hopefully wish to come across. Does hearing of these items make us better and more aware or does it desensitize us?

I believe that a large part of the problem is as I tried to express earlier- a rather significant shift in values has occurred and we are seeing the effects of this- for better and for worse.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dancepartner wrote:

well said thirty bills.

Thanks Dance.

I have noticed you took a break. Hope things are well.

polaris_x

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I think it's a little bigger than that, P. It's quite a bit bigger than that.

What you speak of has been a characteristic of society since primitive man.

I think it would be more significant to suggest that the brutal displays of humanity that we continually see are because we have lowered the bar for what acceptable behaviour might be. From smaller aspects of our lives such as the fact that our weekly television shows are laced with highly questionable content to larger aspects of our lives such as the fact that a guy could be convicted for 50 pedophilia charges and repeatedly released to re-offend.

And I could go on- such as speaking to the fact that the concept of family has been obliterated and children are continually lost when adults fail to place them first and make sacrifices for them as they tend to their own interests.

for sure ... there are other aspects such as we've lost the sense of community and every person is out for themselves ... our social infrastructure has been destroyed ... but through it all - i do think societal obsession with violence as a means of resolution is at the heart of it ...

i mean - some kid just shot a teacher and a couple of kids yesterday and it's another ho hum day ...

Thirty Bills Unpaid

polaris_x wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I think it's a little bigger than that, P. It's quite a bit bigger than that.

What you speak of has been a characteristic of society since primitive man.

I think it would be more significant to suggest that the brutal displays of humanity that we continually see are because we have lowered the bar for what acceptable behaviour might be. From smaller aspects of our lives such as the fact that our weekly television shows are laced with highly questionable content to larger aspects of our lives such as the fact that a guy could be convicted for 50 pedophilia charges and repeatedly released to re-offend.

And I could go on- such as speaking to the fact that the concept of family has been obliterated and children are continually lost when adults fail to place them first and make sacrifices for them as they tend to their own interests.

for sure ... there are other aspects such as we've lost the sense of community and every person is out for themselves ... our social infrastructure has been destroyed ... but through it all - i do think societal obsession with violence as a means of resolution is at the heart of it ...

i mean - some kid just shot a teacher and a couple of kids yesterday and it's another ho hum day ...

And I wouldn't deny that there is an element of truth to what you have suggested. It's just very complex and at the end of the day... we are left wondering what to do and how to respond. If everyone played nicely... we wouldn't have to discuss what to do given 'x" has occurred. But, 'x' does occur and as a result... we're forced to respond in a manner that serves justice. The very idea of 'justice' is highly debatable. I'm not saying I am right with the DP (as this is what you were getting at)... but I'm not prepared to suggest I'm wrong either. We are just different with regards to how we feel we should respond to the violent acts that are shoved down our throats.

hedonist

Some spot-on posts in this thread.

I've mentioned ripple-effects before and it's no different here. To me, it all begins with the initial circle of home and family.

What kind of parent(s) are you? Are you fostering an entitled, self-absorbed child? A wanna-be version of yourself?

Are you spending actual time with them, talking, listening, leading by example? Teaching them honor, humbleness, charity, kindness, ethics, responsibility...the list goes on...by actually living a life with those qualities?

I think many horrific, as well as just plain shitty, acts wouldn't happen if a solid, stable foundation were in place...if those qualities were in place (silly me, I know).

The concept of playing nicely - even going beyond - would be more the norm than something we read about to "restore our faith in humanity" (using that term because I see it all over and it fits here).

bootlegger10

Part of the problem is the internet and it is everywhere and just about inescapable for some. There was a lot of bullying going on over the years, but it was localized to school and the kids could go home. Now the kids can't go home and feel safe because they are bullied on the internet for everyone to see.

The internet is probably the greatest and worst invention of man (just a thought I haven't vetted).

We are slaves to the internet and email. It makes us work more, not less.

ajedigecko

hedonist wrote:

Some spot-on posts in this thread.

I've mentioned ripple-effects before and it's no different here. To me, it all begins with the initial circle of home and family.

What kind of parent(s) are you? Are you fostering an entitled, self-absorbed child? A wanna-be version of yourself?

Are you spending actual time with them, talking, listening, leading by example? Teaching them honor, humbleness, charity, kindness, ethics, responsibility...the list goes on...by actually living a life with those qualities?

I think many horrific, as well as just plain shitty, acts wouldn't happen if a solid, stable foundation were in place...if those qualities were in place (silly me, I know).

The concept of playing nicely - even going beyond - would be more the norm than something we read about to "restore our faith in humanity" (using that term because I see it all over and it fits here).

Parents are the keystone.

polaris_x

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

And I wouldn't deny that there is an element of truth to what you have suggested. It's just very complex and at the end of the day... we are left wondering what to do and how to respond. If everyone played nicely... we wouldn't have to discuss what to do given 'x" has occurred. But, 'x' does occur and as a result... we're forced to respond in a manner that serves justice. The very idea of 'justice' is highly debatable. I'm not saying I am right with the DP (as this is what you were getting at)... but I'm not prepared to suggest I'm wrong either. We are just different with regards to how we feel we should respond to the violent acts that are shoved down our throats.

it's not just the DP ... it's the desire everywhere ... take the peeping tom thread .. everyone wants that guy severely beaten ... almost any issue that comes up - there is a high % of people that think violence is a reasonable resolution manner ...

Thirty Bills Unpaid

polaris_x wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

And I wouldn't deny that there is an element of truth to what you have suggested. It's just very complex and at the end of the day... we are left wondering what to do and how to respond. If everyone played nicely... we wouldn't have to discuss what to do given 'x" has occurred. But, 'x' does occur and as a result... we're forced to respond in a manner that serves justice. The very idea of 'justice' is highly debatable. I'm not saying I am right with the DP (as this is what you were getting at)... but I'm not prepared to suggest I'm wrong either. We are just different with regards to how we feel we should respond to the violent acts that are shoved down our throats.

it's not just the DP ... it's the desire everywhere ... take the peeping tom thread .. everyone wants that guy severely beaten ... almost any issue that comes up - there is a high % of people that think violence is a reasonable resolution manner ...

I understand what you are saying. You prefaced your first post with the 'rehashing an old argument'... and that is what I referred back to.

To me it's not quite as simple as saying, "You think violence is a reasonable resolution manner." How does one effectively resolve some pervert leering in a window jerking off while looking at a 5 year old? Or someone murdering someone? There is no 'resolution' to these scenarios. I, for one, am not interested in 'working with the offender' to try and make things better. I wish for none of it to happen at all, but in the event someone has to go and hurt someone... there is only a response and to me... this response should reflect society's disdain for the crime: let the punishment fit the crime.

The alternative to violence is what I would consider a situation we have in our town. A sick freak has numerous pedophilia convictions. We keep pushing him back onto the streets and he keeps violating conditions of parole.

The soft hand doesn't work either.

polaris_x

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I understand what you are saying. You prefaced your first post with the 'rehashing an old argument'... and that is what I referred back to.

To me it's not quite as simple as saying, "You think violence is a reasonable resolution manner." How does one effectively resolve some pervert leering in a window jerking off while looking at a 5 year old? Or someone murdering someone? There is no 'resolution' to these scenarios. I, for one, am not interested in 'working with the offender' to try and make things better. I wish for none of it to happen at all, but in the event someone has to go and hurt someone... there is only a response and to me... this response should reflect society's disdain for the crime: let the punishment fit the crime.

The alternative to violence is what I would consider a situation we have in our town. A sick freak has numerous pedophilia convictions. We keep pushing him back onto the streets and he keeps violating conditions of parole.

The soft hand doesn't work either.

the soft hand works in other places ... why are violent crime rates so much higher in the US? ...

no one ever is interested in dealing with the root causes of the problems ... take terrorism for instance - it's easy to blame a religion or "our way of life" and then go bomb innocent people and not feel any guilt ... why is it that al qaeda is as strong as ever and expanding around the world? ... no bin laden and drone strikes are killing off "top officials" weekly ... it's because violence begets violence ... when your first reaction to something you don't like is rage or anger ... you end up doing something that doesn't make the situation better nor prevent it from happening again ..

in trying to bring it back to the OP ... what kind of kids do you think this stepmom is gonna raise when they get older? ... what do you think their odds of committing violence is gonna be? ... less or more of they haven't been beaten at their early age?