The practice of child brides and prostitution which is practiced by countries throughout Asia and Africa and yes, event the US is a sad and disturbing result of socioeconomic factors,
on child brides:
"Early marriage is a brutal curtailment of childhood and a violation of children's rights, yet many parents around the world believe it is the best possible way to ensure their daughters are looked after," said Hannah Stevenson, a policy advisor and co-author of the report.
She continued: "The public perception in the West is that these types of marriages are down to convention, but our research found that in most cases parents fear the child will starve or have no money, especially when have lost everything through war."
•The victims of trafficking or their caregivers are often seeking escape from poverty. The children most likely to be trafficked are girls, those from tribal groups and ethnic minorities, stateless people and refugees (according to the UN special rapporteur).
•Some children (or their parents) are lured by promises of education, a new skill or a "good job"; other children are kidnapped outright, taken from their home villages or towns and then bought and sold like commodities. Often they are crammed into boats or trucks without enough air, water or food. When their smugglers are threatened by discovery, the children may be abandoned or even killed. If they reach their destination, they end up in situations of forced labor, forced prostitution, domestic service or involuntary marriage. They are virtual slaves, who have been stripped of their human rights.
•Children who are trafficked lose contact with their families. They are taken into an entirely new situation, often to another country, to a place where they don't know anyone and don't speak the language. They are vulnerable to many kinds of abuse, including sexual abuse. It is difficult for them to seek help not just because they are children but because they are often illegal immigrants and have false documents or no documents.
•Boys who are trafficked in armed conflicts are usually used as soldiers, while girls are usually forced to be servants who are often used sexually by the soldiers as well.
Yeah don't they know that only US drone strikes are allowed to kill children in Yemen?
I dnt think most on here disagree with you on your post, it's just that it doesn't belong in this thread. That girl had no business being married off at that age, and to be killed in that manor. It's an absolute shame that this shit happens. We all agree killing and murdering children is the lowest form of humanity. Children are innocent and deserve nothing more than to be happy, joyful and full of life. Breaks me every time I read or hear something like this happening to a child. We're supposed to PROTECT them not let some sick fuck pay a father a goat/chicken for his daughter. Our world needs a complete change and restart. We're so fucked up as the human race.
Yes killing children in ANY WAY is pure evil and hate to say it but we as humans have become more like the devil.
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The practice of child brides and prostitution which is practiced by countries throughout Asia and Africa and yes, event the US is a sad and disturbing result of socioeconomic factors,
on child brides:
"Early marriage is a brutal curtailment of childhood and a violation of children's rights, yet many parents around the world believe it is the best possible way to ensure their daughters are looked after," said Hannah Stevenson, a policy advisor and co-author of the report.
She continued: "The public perception in the West is that these types of marriages are down to convention, but our research found that in most cases parents fear the child will starve or have no money, especially when have lost everything through war."
•The victims of trafficking or their caregivers are often seeking escape from poverty. The children most likely to be trafficked are girls, those from tribal groups and ethnic minorities, stateless people and refugees (according to the UN special rapporteur).
•Some children (or their parents) are lured by promises of education, a new skill or a "good job"; other children are kidnapped outright, taken from their home villages or towns and then bought and sold like commodities. Often they are crammed into boats or trucks without enough air, water or food. When their smugglers are threatened by discovery, the children may be abandoned or even killed. If they reach their destination, they end up in situations of forced labor, forced prostitution, domestic service or involuntary marriage. They are virtual slaves, who have been stripped of their human rights.
•Children who are trafficked lose contact with their families. They are taken into an entirely new situation, often to another country, to a place where they don't know anyone and don't speak the language. They are vulnerable to many kinds of abuse, including sexual abuse. It is difficult for them to seek help not just because they are children but because they are often illegal immigrants and have false documents or no documents.
•Boys who are trafficked in armed conflicts are usually used as soldiers, while girls are usually forced to be servants who are often used sexually by the soldiers as well.
Just for clarification... what was the intent of this post? The information is fine, but your preface sounds as if it is a rationalization of some sort. This isn't what you intended is it?
The practice of child brides and prostitution which is practiced by countries throughout Asia and Africa and yes, event the US is a sad and disturbing result of socioeconomic factors,
on child brides:
"Early marriage is a brutal curtailment of childhood and a violation of children's rights, yet many parents around the world believe it is the best possible way to ensure their daughters are looked after," said Hannah Stevenson, a policy advisor and co-author of the report.
She continued: "The public perception in the West is that these types of marriages are down to convention, but our research found that in most cases parents fear the child will starve or have no money, especially when have lost everything through war."
•The victims of trafficking or their caregivers are often seeking escape from poverty. The children most likely to be trafficked are girls, those from tribal groups and ethnic minorities, stateless people and refugees (according to the UN special rapporteur).
•Some children (or their parents) are lured by promises of education, a new skill or a "good job"; other children are kidnapped outright, taken from their home villages or towns and then bought and sold like commodities. Often they are crammed into boats or trucks without enough air, water or food. When their smugglers are threatened by discovery, the children may be abandoned or even killed. If they reach their destination, they end up in situations of forced labor, forced prostitution, domestic service or involuntary marriage. They are virtual slaves, who have been stripped of their human rights.
•Children who are trafficked lose contact with their families. They are taken into an entirely new situation, often to another country, to a place where they don't know anyone and don't speak the language. They are vulnerable to many kinds of abuse, including sexual abuse. It is difficult for them to seek help not just because they are children but because they are often illegal immigrants and have false documents or no documents.
•Boys who are trafficked in armed conflicts are usually used as soldiers, while girls are usually forced to be servants who are often used sexually by the soldiers as well.
Just for clarification... what was the intent of this post? The information is fine, but your preface sounds as if it is a rationalization of some sort. This isn't what you intended is it?
I believe he is saying that it is unfair to condemn a whole culture as "dog shit", when the reasons why parents give up their children go far beyond simple cultural tradition, and are in many cases down to extreme poverty, or fear that their children will suffer if they don't marry them into money. I don't believe he was trying to excuse the actions of this father killing his child though, that's a quite different issue to the topic of the thread.
The practice of child brides and prostitution which is practiced by countries throughout Asia and Africa and yes, event the US is a sad and disturbing result of socioeconomic factors,
on child brides:
"Early marriage is a brutal curtailment of childhood and a violation of children's rights, yet many parents around the world believe it is the best possible way to ensure their daughters are looked after," said Hannah Stevenson, a policy advisor and co-author of the report.
She continued: "The public perception in the West is that these types of marriages are down to convention, but our research found that in most cases parents fear the child will starve or have no money, especially when have lost everything through war."
•The victims of trafficking or their caregivers are often seeking escape from poverty. The children most likely to be trafficked are girls, those from tribal groups and ethnic minorities, stateless people and refugees (according to the UN special rapporteur).
•Some children (or their parents) are lured by promises of education, a new skill or a "good job"; other children are kidnapped outright, taken from their home villages or towns and then bought and sold like commodities. Often they are crammed into boats or trucks without enough air, water or food. When their smugglers are threatened by discovery, the children may be abandoned or even killed. If they reach their destination, they end up in situations of forced labor, forced prostitution, domestic service or involuntary marriage. They are virtual slaves, who have been stripped of their human rights.
•Children who are trafficked lose contact with their families. They are taken into an entirely new situation, often to another country, to a place where they don't know anyone and don't speak the language. They are vulnerable to many kinds of abuse, including sexual abuse. It is difficult for them to seek help not just because they are children but because they are often illegal immigrants and have false documents or no documents.
•Boys who are trafficked in armed conflicts are usually used as soldiers, while girls are usually forced to be servants who are often used sexually by the soldiers as well.
Just for clarification... what was the intent of this post? The information is fine, but your preface sounds as if it is a rationalization of some sort. This isn't what you intended is it?
I believe he is saying that it is unfair to condemn a whole culture as "dog shit", when the reasons why parents give up their children go far beyond simple cultural tradition, and are in many cases down to extreme poverty, or fear that their children will suffer if they don't marry them into money. I don't believe he was trying to excuse the actions of this father killing his child though.
But yeah, it's much easier not to concern ourselves with any facts, and to just casually dismiss their entire culture without making any attempt to understand what is going on.
Slow down, Champ.
If that is what he's saying, then he can say it. You've explained the reasons why a family would sell their daughter at 8 years of age to a man, but you haven't bothered to explain why a grown man would be motivated to take an 8 year old bride?
On both accounts... I'd have to say that's a little messed for my way of thinking, but if you are saying that this is something deeper than 'a little messed' and that we should not be scornful... well okay then.
Yes apologies, I made an edit there while you were replying. I thought my tone a little too combative. Sorry about that.
People take young brides because there are sick people in the world, you can find them in each and every culture, by no means is it limited to Islamic countries, there are plenty of pedophiles in the USA.
I seriously doubt many parents want to give up their child, especially to somebody who wants an 8 year old bride, but still believe that the alternative of starving, or being kidnapped into slavery may be even worse.
Yes apologies, I made an edit there while you were replying. I thought my tone a little too combative. Sorry about that.
People take young brides because there are sick people in the world, you can find them in each and every culture, by no means is it limited to Islamic countries, there are plenty of pedophiles in the USA.
I seriously doubt many parents want to give up their child, especially to somebody who wants an 8 year old bride, but still believe that the alternative of starving, or being kidnapped into slavery may be even worse.
No problems. I'm certainly guilty of that myself sometimes and I'd hate for anyone to hang me on my well-intended, but strong words. We are all on this forum because we care.
The story posted above though is another matter, that a father can do that to his own daughter and not even suffer any punishment to speak of is absolutely detestable, but again it is important to remember that just because a country has appalling lack of respect for basic human rights and decency doesn't mean that the people who live there condone of agree with it. It was stated above that this man was protected by his culture, that is not true, he was protected by a government of unelected religious maniacs who are oppressing the freedom of their people. I rather doubt the consensus in Saudi is that it is OK to rape and kill your child.
The story posted above though is another matter, that a father can do that to his own daughter and not even suffer any punishment to speak of is absolutely detestable, but again it is important to remember that just because a country has appalling lack of respect for basic human rights and decency doesn't mean that the people who live there condone of agree with it. It was stated above that this man was protected by his culture, that is not true, he was protected by a government of unelected religious maniacs who are oppressing the freedom of their people. I rather doubt the consensus in Saudi is that it is OK to rape and kill your child.
Saudi Arabian media sources have reported that an Islamic cleric who raped, tortured and killed his 5-year-old daughter, has been let off with a small fine, avoiding a jail sentence.
Lama al-Ghamdi was the daughter of Fayhan al-Ghamdi, an Islamic preacher who makes regular appearances on television. Under Saudi law, al-Ghamdi has had to pay only £31,500 in 'blood money', even after confessing to the heinous crime.
Gulf News reports that 5-year-old Lama was admitted to hospital on December 25, 2011 with multiple injuries, including a crushed skull, broken ribs and left arm, extensive bruising and burns. She died last October 22.
Activists from women's rights groups said that the father had doubted Lama’s virginity and had her checked up by a medic. A social worker from the hospital where Lama was admitted said the girl’s back was broken and that she had been raped “everywhere”.
According to the victim’s mother, hospital staff told her that her “child’s rectum had been torn open and the abuser had attempted to burn it closed.”
Ghamdi has apparently paid 200,000 riyals ($50,000; £31,500) in "blood money" - a sum that can be paid to relatives of a murder victim and which, if accepted, can replace a death sentence.
Human rights activists have indicated that judicial leniency towards male abusers reflects the highly problematic nature of the male guardianship system in Saudi Arabia.
Currently, women in Saudi Arabia are considered minors, and all are automatically assigned to the care and judgment of their most immediate male relative.
So far, three Saudi activists have raised objections to the ruling which is based on Saudi laws that state that a father cannot be executed for murdering his children, nor can husbands be executed for murdering their wives.
What's your point? Those laws are imposed upon the country by a brutal monarchal dictatorship, that doesn't mean your average Saudi thinks raping and killing kids is acceptable.
What's your point? Those laws are imposed upon the country by a brutal monarchal dictatorship, that doesn't mean your average Saudi thinks raping and killing kids is acceptable.
How do you know what the average saudi thinks, have you've taken a poll
Yeah don't they know that only US drone strikes are allowed to kill children in Yemen?
I dnt think most on here disagree with you on your post, it's just that it doesn't belong in this thread. That girl had no business being married off at that age, and to be killed in that manor. It's an absolute shame that this shit happens. We all agree killing and murdering children is the lowest form of humanity. Children are innocent and deserve nothing more than to be happy, joyful and full of life. Breaks me every time I read or hear something like this happening to a child. We're supposed to PROTECT them not let some sick fuck pay a father a goat/chicken for his daughter. Our world needs a complete change and restart. We're so fucked up as the human race.
Yes killing children in ANY WAY is pure evil and hate to say it but we as humans have become more like the devil.
Oh I get it. I just don't understand why it takes something this disgusting to cause outrage.
any one from this islamic culture (or any culture really) who buys & sells their tiny daughters to a sick fuck is out of their minds. to me, all involved are dog shit. if this entire culture operates this way then so be it. "dog shit"
how about this... allow girls & women to do as they wish: schools, university, work outside the home, carry on like normal, seems femininity scares males over there in these countries so they brutalize these flowers & hold them down.
it is a sick fucking train of thought to carry on this way. i do not accept pedophilia, torture & sick ass bullshit even if it is 7,000 miles away. i can still give my opinion on their culture as "dog shit" if that is how they carry on
any one from this islamic culture (or any culture really) who buys & sells their tiny daughters to a sick fuck is out of their minds. to me, all involved are dog shit. if this entire culture operates this way then so be it. "dog shit"
how about this... allow girls & women to do as they wish: schools, university, work outside the home, carry on like normal, seems femininity scares males over there in these countries so they brutalize these flowers & hold them down.
it is a sick fucking train of thought to carry on this way. i do not accept pedophilia, torture & sick ass bullshit even if it is 7,000 miles away. i can still give my opinion on their culture as "dog shit" if that is how they carry on
The story posted above though is another matter, that a father can do that to his own daughter and not even suffer any punishment to speak of is absolutely detestable, but again it is important to remember that just because a country has appalling lack of respect for basic human rights and decency doesn't mean that the people who live there condone of agree with it. It was stated above that this man was protected by his culture, that is not true, he was protected by a government of unelected religious maniacs who are oppressing the freedom of their people. I rather doubt the consensus in Saudi is that it is OK to rape and kill your child.
Saudi Arabian media sources have reported that an Islamic cleric who raped, tortured and killed his 5-year-old daughter, has been let off with a small fine, avoiding a jail sentence.
Lama al-Ghamdi was the daughter of Fayhan al-Ghamdi, an Islamic preacher who makes regular appearances on television. Under Saudi law, al-Ghamdi has had to pay only £31,500 in 'blood money', even after confessing to the heinous crime.
Gulf News reports that 5-year-old Lama was admitted to hospital on December 25, 2011 with multiple injuries, including a crushed skull, broken ribs and left arm, extensive bruising and burns. She died last October 22.
Activists from women's rights groups said that the father had doubted Lama’s virginity and had her checked up by a medic. A social worker from the hospital where Lama was admitted said the girl’s back was broken and that she had been raped “everywhere”.
According to the victim’s mother, hospital staff told her that her “child’s rectum had been torn open and the abuser had attempted to burn it closed.”
Ghamdi has apparently paid 200,000 riyals ($50,000; £31,500) in "blood money" - a sum that can be paid to relatives of a murder victim and which, if accepted, can replace a death sentence.
Human rights activists have indicated that judicial leniency towards male abusers reflects the highly problematic nature of the male guardianship system in Saudi Arabia.
Currently, women in Saudi Arabia are considered minors, and all are automatically assigned to the care and judgment of their most immediate male relative.
So far, three Saudi activists have raised objections to the ruling which is based on Saudi laws that state that a father cannot be executed for murdering his children, nor can husbands be executed for murdering their wives.
any one from this islamic culture (or any culture really) who buys & sells their tiny daughters to a sick fuck is out of their minds. to me, all involved are dog shit. if this entire culture operates this way then so be it. "dog shit"
how about this... allow girls & women to do as they wish: schools, university, work outside the home, carry on like normal, seems femininity scares males over there in these countries so they brutalize these flowers & hold them down.
it is a sick fucking train of thought to carry on this way. i do not accept pedophilia, torture & sick ass bullshit even if it is 7,000 miles away. i can still give my opinion on their culture as "dog shit" if that is how they carry on
I think "Islamic culture" is an oxymoron, basic knowledge of Islam/ Islam 101 is that it is very much a faith against culture and tradition. There isn't a monolithic "Islamic Culture," just as there isn't a monolithic Buddhist Culture, Jewish Culture, etc. I think the last Nobel Peace Prize winner, a Yemeni Muslim woman would definitely agree with you and proves that there are Yemeni females who do "as they wish." I think its telling that there were members of the community that tried to hide the fact that this happened, so that means that there is shame and a belief of wrongdoing, as there rightly should be.
I have heard and know of situations just as sick and depraved as this in many countries, many ethnicities and faiths, I don't believe any group of people advocates this. I think this thread was started with what I believe malevolent intentions and not really so much as concern for this girl, I just hope it allows us to help in any small way, or at least think and know about children who suffer all over the world, and reflect on our part.
I think "Islamic culture" is an oxymoron, basic knowledge of Islam/ Islam 101 is that it is very much a faith against culture and tradition. There isn't a monolithic "Islamic Culture," just as there isn't a monolithic Buddhist Culture, Jewish Culture, etc. I think the last Nobel Peace Prize winner, a Yemeni Muslim woman would definitely agree with you and proves that there are Yemeni females who do "as they wish." I think its telling that there were members of the community that tried to hide the fact that this happened, so that means that there is shame and a belief of wrongdoing, as there rightly should be.
I have heard and know of situations just as sick and depraved as this in many countries, many ethnicities and faiths, I don't believe any group of people advocates this. I think this thread was started with what I believe malevolent intentions and not really so much as concern for this girl, I just hope it allows us to help in any small way, or at least think and know about children who suffer all over the world, and reflect on our part.
Indeed.
I find it sad that when something like this happens in another part of the world we condemn Middle Easterners as a collective group, but when deplorable acts such as Sandy Hook or Columbine happen in the USA it is always about the individual and never about society as a whole. We go to great lengths to distance ourselves from those who commit heinous acts yet when we look to other nations we quickly make sweeping generalizations about the people, their culture and their religion. If a similar assault happened in North America you can bet we wouldn't be disgusted with the entire nation; we would focus our attention squarely on the perpetrator absolving ourselves as a society of all responsibility.
Outrage is meaningless if it isn't applied with an even hand.
I find it sad that when something like this happens in another part of the world we condemn Middle Easterners as a collective group, but when deplorable acts such as Sandy Hook or Columbine happen in the USA it is always about the individual and never about society as a whole. We go to great lengths to distance ourselves from those who commit heinous acts yet when we look to other nations we quickly make sweeping generalizations about the people, their culture and their religion. If a similar assault happened in North America you can bet we wouldn't be disgusted with the entire nation; we would focus our attention squarely on the perpetrator absolving ourselves as a society of all responsibility.
Outrage is meaningless if it isn't applied with an even hand.
I think "Islamic culture" is an oxymoron, basic knowledge of Islam/ Islam 101 is that it is very much a faith against culture and tradition. There isn't a monolithic "Islamic Culture," just as there isn't a monolithic Buddhist Culture, Jewish Culture, etc. I think the last Nobel Peace Prize winner, a Yemeni Muslim woman would definitely agree with you and proves that there are Yemeni females who do "as they wish." I think its telling that there were members of the community that tried to hide the fact that this happened, so that means that there is shame and a belief of wrongdoing, as there rightly should be.
I have heard and know of situations just as sick and depraved as this in many countries, many ethnicities and faiths, I don't believe any group of people advocates this. I think this thread was started with what I believe malevolent intentions and not really so much as concern for this girl, I just hope it allows us to help in any small way, or at least think and know about children who suffer all over the world, and reflect on our part.
Indeed.
I find it sad that when something like this happens in another part of the world we condemn Middle Easterners as a collective group, but when deplorable acts such as Sandy Hook or Columbine happen in the USA it is always about the individual and never about society as a whole. We go to great lengths to distance ourselves from those who commit heinous acts yet when we look to other nations we quickly make sweeping generalizations about the people, their culture and their religion. If a similar assault happened in North America you can bet we wouldn't be disgusted with the entire nation; we would focus our attention squarely on the perpetrator absolving ourselves as a society of all responsibility.
Outrage is meaningless if it isn't applied with an even hand.
Who studies a book where one condones sex with children, beheading children, torture, wife beating, killing daughters......? This is a culture...........shame for trying to compare these acts that happen on a daily bases to acts of violence in America.....
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I think "Islamic culture" is an oxymoron, basic knowledge of Islam/ Islam 101 is that it is very much a faith against culture and tradition. There isn't a monolithic "Islamic Culture," just as there isn't a monolithic Buddhist Culture, Jewish Culture, etc. I think the last Nobel Peace Prize winner, a Yemeni Muslim woman would definitely agree with you and proves that there are Yemeni females who do "as they wish." I think its telling that there were members of the community that tried to hide the fact that this happened, so that means that there is shame and a belief of wrongdoing, as there rightly should be.
I have heard and know of situations just as sick and depraved as this in many countries, many ethnicities and faiths, I don't believe any group of people advocates this. I think this thread was started with what I believe malevolent intentions and not really so much as concern for this girl, I just hope it allows us to help in any small way, or at least think and know about children who suffer all over the world, and reflect on our part.
Indeed.
I find it sad that when something like this happens in another part of the world we condemn Middle Easterners as a collective group, but when deplorable acts such as Sandy Hook or Columbine happen in the USA it is always about the individual and never about society as a whole. We go to great lengths to distance ourselves from those who commit heinous acts yet when we look to other nations we quickly make sweeping generalizations about the people, their culture and their religion. If a similar assault happened in North America you can bet we wouldn't be disgusted with the entire nation; we would focus our attention squarely on the perpetrator absolving ourselves as a society of all responsibility.
Outrage is meaningless if it isn't applied with an even hand.
Be fair.
When Sandy Hook happened these pages were buzzing with people lashing out at the 'gun culture' for weeks and weeks. Calls for reform were debated intensely.
I would suggest that there is more of an even hand than what you are implying.
A society that sees (and permits) a grown man to marry an 8 year old should not be beyond reproach.
I find it sad that when something like this happens in another part of the world we condemn Middle Easterners as a collective group, but when deplorable acts such as Sandy Hook or Columbine happen in the USA it is always about the individual and never about society as a whole. We go to great lengths to distance ourselves from those who commit heinous acts yet when we look to other nations we quickly make sweeping generalizations about the people, their culture and their religion. If a similar assault happened in North America you can bet we wouldn't be disgusted with the entire nation; we would focus our attention squarely on the perpetrator absolving ourselves as a society of all responsibility.
Outrage is meaningless if it isn't applied with an even hand.
Outrage is outrage; doesn't need to be proven or demonstrated on a daily basis to anyone.
Do you not think your use of "we" and "always" and "never" aren't generalizations similar to those you accuse others of making?
There's been much examination about society(ies) and their effects on the individual.
This particular act, whether an anomaly or a regular occurrence, is still disgusting to me - and yes, outrageous.
I find it sad that when something like this happens in another part of the world we condemn Middle Easterners as a collective group, but when deplorable acts such as Sandy Hook or Columbine happen in the USA it is always about the individual and never about society as a whole. We go to great lengths to distance ourselves from those who commit heinous acts yet when we look to other nations we quickly make sweeping generalizations about the people, their culture and their religion. If a similar assault happened in North America you can bet we wouldn't be disgusted with the entire nation; we would focus our attention squarely on the perpetrator absolving ourselves as a society of all responsibility.
Outrage is meaningless if it isn't applied with an even hand.
Outrage is outrage; doesn't need to be proven or demonstrated on a daily basis to anyone.
Do you not think your use of "we" and "always" and "never" aren't generalizations similar to those you accuse others of making?
There's been much examination about society(ies) and their effects on the individual.
This particular act, whether an anomaly or a regular occurrence, is still disgusting to me - and yes, outrageous.
I would have thought that this thread- of all others- was beyond debate: this is an incident that begs questions and a call for reform. This is a shameful situation and I'm truly puzzled as to why some have felt the need to 'defend' it?
Who studies a book where one condones sex with children, beheading children, torture, wife beating, killing daughters......? This is a culture...........shame for trying to compare these acts that happen on a daily bases to acts of violence in America.....
America? You mean the same America that had slavery entrenched in it's constitution? The same America that slaughtered its indigenous peoples and was lynching blacks mid way into the 20th century? You speak of shame but you constantly belittle and berate others for having beliefs that are counter to your own. You throw around homophobic remarks, and accuse other cultures of brutal savagery while feigning indignation when somebody points out that the US is far from perfect. Real shame is trying to portray half the globe as being savage animals based on the reprehensible acts of a select few.
Who studies a book where one condones sex with children, beheading children, torture, wife beating, killing daughters......? This is a culture...........shame for trying to compare these acts that happen on a daily bases to acts of violence in America.....
America? You mean the same America that had slavery entrenched in it's constitution? The same America that slaughtered its indigenous peoples and was lynching blacks mid way into the 20th century? You speak of shame but you constantly belittle and berate others for having beliefs that are counter to your own. You throw around homophobic remarks, and accuse other cultures of brutal savagery while feigning indignation when somebody points out that the US is far from perfect. Real shame is trying to portray half the globe as being savage animals based on the reprehensible acts of a select few.
the usa didn't invent slavery & they aren't the first country to slaughter indigenous peoples. i think most countries & cultures are trying to better themselves today as well as help show others a better way. while others are selling daughters (sons are worth soo much more) & men seem to avoid prosecution time & time again when beating, raping & murdering small girls as well as women is very common.
selling their 8 years old daughters to grown ass men... that's great stuff. trading daughters for goats, chickens & some monies... great stuff.
women are second class citizens in many cultures/countries & they are property to be used as a man chooses. yes femininity had issues in the united states like where women couldn't vote & work outside the home. i would wager that a great society & culture elevates their girls & women into greatness diretly alongside men vs' (what appears to be men, but is rather weak, sorry & pathetic) being held down in a torturous fashion. they are very far from men in my eyes.
the usa didn't invent slavery & they aren't the first country to slaughter indigenous peoples. i think most countries & cultures are trying to better themselves today as well as help show others a better way. while others are selling daughters (sons are worth soo much more) & men seem to avoid prosecution time & time again when beating, raping & murdering small girls as well as women is very common.
selling their 8 years old daughters to grown ass men... that's great stuff. trading daughters for goats, chickens & some monies... great stuff.
women are second class citizens in many cultures/countries & they are property to be used as a man chooses. yes femininity had issues in the united states like where women couldn't vote & work outside the home. i would wager that a great society & culture elevates their girls & women into greatness diretly alongside men vs' (what appears to be men, but is rather weak, sorry & pathetic) being held down in a torturous fashion
I'm not suggesting that the US invented slavery, or that the US has some sort of monopoly on the inhumane treatment of its native peoples. Up here in Canada we've certainly done our part as well. That being said, I don't think the Western world is really in a position to tell others how to run their affairs. Many of these countries are undeveloped and lack human rights but I don't see the developed world offering anything other than condemnation.
Also, I would argue that it is typically a minority of proactive citizens that are trying to better their nations rather than the majority who are often complacent and apathetic. Social and political activists typically put their necks on the line while the majority sits idly by. It's so easy to look down on an entire culture when you consider that our greatest privilege is being born in a place where someone else has done most of the dirty work.
Comments
lemme think of what that is
i got nothing
their culture is dog shit
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/07/health/ne ... index.html
The practice of child brides and prostitution which is practiced by countries throughout Asia and Africa and yes, event the US is a sad and disturbing result of socioeconomic factors,
on child brides:
"Early marriage is a brutal curtailment of childhood and a violation of children's rights, yet many parents around the world believe it is the best possible way to ensure their daughters are looked after," said Hannah Stevenson, a policy advisor and co-author of the report.
She continued: "The public perception in the West is that these types of marriages are down to convention, but our research found that in most cases parents fear the child will starve or have no money, especially when have lost everything through war."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... eport.html
And Unicef on Child prostitution:
•The victims of trafficking or their caregivers are often seeking escape from poverty. The children most likely to be trafficked are girls, those from tribal groups and ethnic minorities, stateless people and refugees (according to the UN special rapporteur).
•Some children (or their parents) are lured by promises of education, a new skill or a "good job"; other children are kidnapped outright, taken from their home villages or towns and then bought and sold like commodities. Often they are crammed into boats or trucks without enough air, water or food. When their smugglers are threatened by discovery, the children may be abandoned or even killed. If they reach their destination, they end up in situations of forced labor, forced prostitution, domestic service or involuntary marriage. They are virtual slaves, who have been stripped of their human rights.
•Children who are trafficked lose contact with their families. They are taken into an entirely new situation, often to another country, to a place where they don't know anyone and don't speak the language. They are vulnerable to many kinds of abuse, including sexual abuse. It is difficult for them to seek help not just because they are children but because they are often illegal immigrants and have false documents or no documents.
•Boys who are trafficked in armed conflicts are usually used as soldiers, while girls are usually forced to be servants who are often used sexually by the soldiers as well.
http://asiasociety.org/policy/social-is ... f-response
I dnt think most on here disagree with you on your post, it's just that it doesn't belong in this thread. That girl had no business being married off at that age, and to be killed in that manor. It's an absolute shame that this shit happens. We all agree killing and murdering children is the lowest form of humanity. Children are innocent and deserve nothing more than to be happy, joyful and full of life. Breaks me every time I read or hear something like this happening to a child. We're supposed to PROTECT them not let some sick fuck pay a father a goat/chicken for his daughter. Our world needs a complete change and restart. We're so fucked up as the human race.
Yes killing children in ANY WAY is pure evil and hate to say it but we as humans have become more like the devil.
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Just for clarification... what was the intent of this post? The information is fine, but your preface sounds as if it is a rationalization of some sort. This isn't what you intended is it?
I believe he is saying that it is unfair to condemn a whole culture as "dog shit", when the reasons why parents give up their children go far beyond simple cultural tradition, and are in many cases down to extreme poverty, or fear that their children will suffer if they don't marry them into money. I don't believe he was trying to excuse the actions of this father killing his child though, that's a quite different issue to the topic of the thread.
Slow down, Champ.
If that is what he's saying, then he can say it. You've explained the reasons why a family would sell their daughter at 8 years of age to a man, but you haven't bothered to explain why a grown man would be motivated to take an 8 year old bride?
On both accounts... I'd have to say that's a little messed for my way of thinking, but if you are saying that this is something deeper than 'a little messed' and that we should not be scornful... well okay then.
People take young brides because there are sick people in the world, you can find them in each and every culture, by no means is it limited to Islamic countries, there are plenty of pedophiles in the USA.
I seriously doubt many parents want to give up their child, especially to somebody who wants an 8 year old bride, but still believe that the alternative of starving, or being kidnapped into slavery may be even worse.
No problems. I'm certainly guilty of that myself sometimes and I'd hate for anyone to hang me on my well-intended, but strong words. We are all on this forum because we care.
The story posted above though is another matter, that a father can do that to his own daughter and not even suffer any punishment to speak of is absolutely detestable, but again it is important to remember that just because a country has appalling lack of respect for basic human rights and decency doesn't mean that the people who live there condone of agree with it. It was stated above that this man was protected by his culture, that is not true, he was protected by a government of unelected religious maniacs who are oppressing the freedom of their people. I rather doubt the consensus in Saudi is that it is OK to rape and kill your child.
Saudi Arabian media sources have reported that an Islamic cleric who raped, tortured and killed his 5-year-old daughter, has been let off with a small fine, avoiding a jail sentence.
Lama al-Ghamdi was the daughter of Fayhan al-Ghamdi, an Islamic preacher who makes regular appearances on television. Under Saudi law, al-Ghamdi has had to pay only £31,500 in 'blood money', even after confessing to the heinous crime.
Gulf News reports that 5-year-old Lama was admitted to hospital on December 25, 2011 with multiple injuries, including a crushed skull, broken ribs and left arm, extensive bruising and burns. She died last October 22.
Activists from women's rights groups said that the father had doubted Lama’s virginity and had her checked up by a medic. A social worker from the hospital where Lama was admitted said the girl’s back was broken and that she had been raped “everywhere”.
According to the victim’s mother, hospital staff told her that her “child’s rectum had been torn open and the abuser had attempted to burn it closed.”
Ghamdi has apparently paid 200,000 riyals ($50,000; £31,500) in "blood money" - a sum that can be paid to relatives of a murder victim and which, if accepted, can replace a death sentence.
Human rights activists have indicated that judicial leniency towards male abusers reflects the highly problematic nature of the male guardianship system in Saudi Arabia.
Currently, women in Saudi Arabia are considered minors, and all are automatically assigned to the care and judgment of their most immediate male relative.
So far, three Saudi activists have raised objections to the ruling which is based on Saudi laws that state that a father cannot be executed for murdering his children, nor can husbands be executed for murdering their wives.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/2 ... small_fine
How do you know what the average saudi thinks, have you've taken a poll
Oh I get it. I just don't understand why it takes something this disgusting to cause outrage.
any one from this islamic culture (or any culture really) who buys & sells their tiny daughters to a sick fuck is out of their minds. to me, all involved are dog shit. if this entire culture operates this way then so be it. "dog shit"
how about this... allow girls & women to do as they wish: schools, university, work outside the home, carry on like normal, seems femininity scares males over there in these countries so they brutalize these flowers & hold them down.
it is a sick fucking train of thought to carry on this way. i do not accept pedophilia, torture & sick ass bullshit even if it is 7,000 miles away. i can still give my opinion on their culture as "dog shit" if that is how they carry on
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
any takers on my muslim thoughts....
Godfather.
Absolutely disgusting. I can't believe we have friendly relations with this backwards nation. We need to get off the oil NOW
I think "Islamic culture" is an oxymoron, basic knowledge of Islam/ Islam 101 is that it is very much a faith against culture and tradition. There isn't a monolithic "Islamic Culture," just as there isn't a monolithic Buddhist Culture, Jewish Culture, etc. I think the last Nobel Peace Prize winner, a Yemeni Muslim woman would definitely agree with you and proves that there are Yemeni females who do "as they wish." I think its telling that there were members of the community that tried to hide the fact that this happened, so that means that there is shame and a belief of wrongdoing, as there rightly should be.
I have heard and know of situations just as sick and depraved as this in many countries, many ethnicities and faiths, I don't believe any group of people advocates this. I think this thread was started with what I believe malevolent intentions and not really so much as concern for this girl, I just hope it allows us to help in any small way, or at least think and know about children who suffer all over the world, and reflect on our part.
Indeed.
I find it sad that when something like this happens in another part of the world we condemn Middle Easterners as a collective group, but when deplorable acts such as Sandy Hook or Columbine happen in the USA it is always about the individual and never about society as a whole. We go to great lengths to distance ourselves from those who commit heinous acts yet when we look to other nations we quickly make sweeping generalizations about the people, their culture and their religion. If a similar assault happened in North America you can bet we wouldn't be disgusted with the entire nation; we would focus our attention squarely on the perpetrator absolving ourselves as a society of all responsibility.
Outrage is meaningless if it isn't applied with an even hand.
Who studies a book where one condones sex with children, beheading children, torture, wife beating, killing daughters......? This is a culture...........shame for trying to compare these acts that happen on a daily bases to acts of violence in America.....
Be fair.
When Sandy Hook happened these pages were buzzing with people lashing out at the 'gun culture' for weeks and weeks. Calls for reform were debated intensely.
I would suggest that there is more of an even hand than what you are implying.
A society that sees (and permits) a grown man to marry an 8 year old should not be beyond reproach.
Do you not think your use of "we" and "always" and "never" aren't generalizations similar to those you accuse others of making?
There's been much examination about society(ies) and their effects on the individual.
This particular act, whether an anomaly or a regular occurrence, is still disgusting to me - and yes, outrageous.
I would have thought that this thread- of all others- was beyond debate: this is an incident that begs questions and a call for reform. This is a shameful situation and I'm truly puzzled as to why some have felt the need to 'defend' it?
America? You mean the same America that had slavery entrenched in it's constitution? The same America that slaughtered its indigenous peoples and was lynching blacks mid way into the 20th century? You speak of shame but you constantly belittle and berate others for having beliefs that are counter to your own. You throw around homophobic remarks, and accuse other cultures of brutal savagery while feigning indignation when somebody points out that the US is far from perfect. Real shame is trying to portray half the globe as being savage animals based on the reprehensible acts of a select few.
the usa didn't invent slavery & they aren't the first country to slaughter indigenous peoples. i think most countries & cultures are trying to better themselves today as well as help show others a better way. while others are selling daughters (sons are worth soo much more) & men seem to avoid prosecution time & time again when beating, raping & murdering small girls as well as women is very common.
selling their 8 years old daughters to grown ass men... that's great stuff. trading daughters for goats, chickens & some monies... great stuff.
women are second class citizens in many cultures/countries & they are property to be used as a man chooses. yes femininity had issues in the united states like where women couldn't vote & work outside the home. i would wager that a great society & culture elevates their girls & women into greatness diretly alongside men vs' (what appears to be men, but is rather weak, sorry & pathetic) being held down in a torturous fashion. they are very far from men in my eyes.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I'm not suggesting that the US invented slavery, or that the US has some sort of monopoly on the inhumane treatment of its native peoples. Up here in Canada we've certainly done our part as well. That being said, I don't think the Western world is really in a position to tell others how to run their affairs. Many of these countries are undeveloped and lack human rights but I don't see the developed world offering anything other than condemnation.
Also, I would argue that it is typically a minority of proactive citizens that are trying to better their nations rather than the majority who are often complacent and apathetic. Social and political activists typically put their necks on the line while the majority sits idly by. It's so easy to look down on an entire culture when you consider that our greatest privilege is being born in a place where someone else has done most of the dirty work.