Study: Welfare pays more than minimum wage in most states R

cutz

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08 ... -wage-job/

Go Beavers

Instead of just posting link to an article, why don't you tell us what you think about it?

ajedigecko

I think it will creaate a destructive cycle.

It is in our nature to find the path of least resistance. Once a person sinks into this cycle- it will be devastating to said person when the well goes dry.

Prince Of Dorkness

I'm willing to bet that most Republicans are going to say that this means Welfare recipients are lazy and therefore we should lower the amount they have to live on.

Democrats I'm willing to bet will see that maybe raising the minimum wage to an actual living wage and making it possible to actually work and support yourself and have access to health care.

And libertarians are saying "let them all starve."

:fp:

satansbed

cutz wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/21/study-in-most-states-welfare-pays-more-than-minimum-wage-job/

Except it turns out to be complete BS

The Cato Institute is out with an update to their 1995 study which purports to show that, in most states, welfare pays better than work.
They add up benefits available through eight programs to a low-income woman with two children, and find total benefit values well in excess of full-time minimum wage work, or even, in some states, middle-skill work.

The study is called "The Welfare-Versus-Work Tradeoff," and it's meant to show why people don't get off welfare. And it's B.S., for three reasons.

1. Very few people actually qualify for all eight of the programs Cato looks at. Particularly, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (cash welfare) and housing assistance can provide some very expensive benefits. But fewer than two million households get TANF and only about four million get housing assistance. It is much more typical for a welfare beneficiary to be getting SNAP (food stamps) and Medicaid (health insurance), but no assistance with housing or cash. So, the typical welfare benefit is much lower than Cato makes out, making staying on welfare less appealing.

2. Welfare benefits for single adults are much less generous than those for women with children.

3. Not all benefits are lost when a welfare recipient starts working. SNAP benefits phase out gradually with rising income. People who go back to work don't necessarily lose health benefits, either. Some get new health benefits through work. The children of low-income uninsured workers qualify for the Children's Health Insurance Program in most states. In some states, low-income working adults even qualify for Medicaid. So, going back to work doesn't mean nearly the loss of benefits that Cato implies.

That said, poverty traps are real. This is the phenomenon of people losing benefits as they earn more income of their own. It's a problem that welfare programs need to be designed around, and there are two ways of mitigating it.

One is to make benefits more generous by extending their phaseout ranges, so people don't lose as many benefits as they earn more income. That costs money. The other is to reduce benefits. That reduces the standard of living for the most vulnerable people in America.

It's easier to make an argument for the latter approach when you have an economy that creates broad prosperity and makes it easy for people to find living-wage jobs if they are willing to work.

We don't have that economy.

This is the problem that conservatives and libertarians refuse to grapple with: If you're unwilling to support policies that promote macroeconomic stability, such as counter-cyclical fiscal and monetary policies, you're only making a more generous welfare state more morally necessary.

Meanwhile, Democrats have implemented a reform that actually does help to address the poverty trap issue. The Affordable Care Act, when it's implemented next year, will make it possible for people on Medicaid to go back to work without fearing loss of health insurance. It will turn what benefit cliffs exist in the Medicaid program into a gradual slope, so nobody will have to fear that an extra dollar of income will make them uninsured.

That is, the Affordable Care Act will do this except in Republican-led states that are rejecting the Medicaid expansion. In those states, the welfare-versus-work tradeoff will be more tilted toward welfare, and a cliff in Medicaid benefits will still be providing a disincentive to take a job.

That's because conservatives and libertarians don't really care about the poverty trap, much as they may talk about it — they just hate spending money on the poor.



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/does-wel ... z2cmdqYhRb

satansbed

BTW the koch brothers own the cato institute so most of what they say will be bollox

unsung

Welfare keeps people in poverty.

Don't like working a minimum wage job? Go to school.

Can't afford school? Well maybe if the government didn't insure the loans the schools would keep the costs low.

It's an endless debt cycle that gets compounded with the destruction of the dollar.

Prince Of Dorkness

unsung wrote:

Welfare keeps people in poverty.

Don't like working a minimum wage job? Go to school.

Can't afford school? Well maybe if the government didn't insure the loans the schools would keep the costs low.

It's an endless debt cycle that gets compounded with the destruction of the dollar.

Can you come talk to my garden? Cua that amount of pure bullshit would make my tomatoes grow like you wouldn't believe.

Jason P

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

unsung wrote:

Welfare keeps people in poverty.

Don't like working a minimum wage job? Go to school.

Can't afford school? Well maybe if the government didn't insure the loans the schools would keep the costs low.

It's an endless debt cycle that gets compounded with the destruction of the dollar.

Can you come talk to my garden? Cua that amount of pure bullshit would make my tomatoes grow like you wouldn't believe.

What is B.S about it? Public universities are pushing past $20K a year. That's double what it cost me in 2000. Do you think banks would loan that money if you could wipe in clean in bankruptcy? Do you think college would cost that much today if you could declare bankruptcy on a student loan?

If a student loan could be capped at $10K a year, I believe you would see a lot of schools offering classes at $10K a year.

And how can you say b.s. that welfare doesn't link to a lack of incentive to work?

chadwick

welfare does not pay well at all. im willing to bet a lot of folks have no fucking idea what they're talking about.

unsung

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

unsung wrote:

Welfare keeps people in poverty.

Don't like working a minimum wage job? Go to school.

Can't afford school? Well maybe if the government didn't insure the loans the schools would keep the costs low.

It's an endless debt cycle that gets compounded with the destruction of the dollar.

Can you come talk to my garden? Cua that amount of pure bullshit would make my tomatoes grow like you wouldn't believe.

Sorry, I'm too busy taking drama classes so I can comprehend your posts.

Prince Of Dorkness

unsung wrote:

Sorry, I'm too busy taking drama classes so I can comprehend your posts.

considering you don't know the difference between a "textbook" and a "children's story book," maybe 3rd grade would be more your speed? :?

Gern Blansten

This should make anyone with a functioning brain realize that our minimum wage is too low.

Do the math yourself. Someone working two minimum wage jobs will barely make enough to make ends meet. Are they lazy?

unsung

Minimum wage isn't too low.

It's Econ 101.

The destruction of the dollar through endless printing of more dollars is the problem.

Gern Blansten

unsung wrote:

Minimum wage isn't too low.

It's Econ 101.

The destruction of the dollar through endless printing of more dollars is the problem.

Oh is that it?

unsung

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

unsung wrote:

Sorry, I'm too busy taking drama classes so I can comprehend your posts.

considering you don't know the difference between a "textbook" and a "children's story book," maybe 3rd grade would be more your speed? :?

I looked into that, however Understanding PoD Drama is a prerequisite to 3rd grade. Let me get through this first, it's a tough one.

Jason P

Gern Blansten wrote:

This should make anyone with a functioning brain realize that our minimum wage is too low.

Do the math yourself. Someone working two minimum wage jobs will barely make enough to make ends meet. Are they lazy?

One would hope that you would not stage your career by working at a minumum wage and that it would be considered a starting point. If an employee can't start building skills and getting better pay, that is probably an employee that isn't going to last very long.

I made minimum wage for several years. Granted I had someone provide a roof over my head, but the experiance payed dividends in helping me get a good internship. (where i worked for free ... actually, now that i think about it i was paying to work there considering it was part of my courses :? )

Gern Blansten

Jason P wrote:

Gern Blansten wrote:

This should make anyone with a functioning brain realize that our minimum wage is too low.

Do the math yourself. Someone working two minimum wage jobs will barely make enough to make ends meet. Are they lazy?

One would hope that you would not stage your career by working at a minumum wage and that it would be considered a starting point. If an employee can't start building skills and getting better pay, that is probably an employee that isn't going to last very long.

I made minimum wage for several years. Granted I had someone provide a roof over my head, but the experiance payed dividends in helping me get a good internship. (where i worked for free ... actually, now that i think about it i was paying to work there considering it was part of my courses :? )

When our government works to close unions and destroy manufacturing jobs I would say that it has gotten harder and harder to many to get something other than a minimum wage job. One purpose of a union is to make sure the company that makes billions takes care of its workers. That isn't happening anymore.

brianlux

unsung wrote:

Minimum wage isn't too low.

It's Econ 101.

The destruction of the dollar through endless printing of more dollars is the problem.

Read Barbara Ehrenreich's excellent and courageous book Nickle and Dimed and you may find yourself recanting your first statement here. As research for her book, Ehrenreich stashed all her savings and went out and tried to live on minimum wage jobs. Even just living alone she had to work two jobs and just barely scraped by and her life was miserable during that time. If she had gotten sick or injured the whole experiment would have collapsed. The book really is a solid answer to those who believe minimum wage is sufficient income.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

brianlux wrote:

unsung wrote:

Minimum wage isn't too low.

It's Econ 101.

The destruction of the dollar through endless printing of more dollars is the problem.

Read Barbara Ehrenreich's excellent and courageous book Nickle and Dimed and you may find yourself recanting your first statement here. As research for her book, Ehrenreich stashed all her savings and went out and tried to live on minimum wage jobs. Even just living alone she had to work two jobs and just barely scraped by and her life was miserable during that time. If she had gotten sick or injured the whole experiment would have collapsed. The book really is a solid answer to those who believe minimum wage is sufficient income.

And, as parents are forced to work their asses off in two jobs... begrudgingly and without the time to do so... they neglect their children who are left to their own devices. Consequently, we read of the exploits of these children killing joggers and WWII vets as they grow unattended to.

It takes exceptional luck to reverse one's fortunes they are born to. I'm not making any excuses for anyone... but I could only imagine the moment when one realizes their future is their present.

You want to talk propaganda? How about the 'American Dream'? Now there's some propaganda.

unsung

My thoughts won't change. If the dollar had value then these people would be fine. Or are you proposing that the minimum wage be set higher?

Where should it be set?