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Cops enter home without warrant, shoot dogs, kill one.

unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
edited August 2013 in A Moving Train
http://www.pnj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl ... ck_check=1

More abuse, but I'm sure the apologists will come out in force. And I thought Dems were supposed to rebel against this type of abuse.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Prince Of DorknessPrince Of Dorkness Posts: 3,763
    How to be a lame-O:

    1. Post a story that pretty much everyone will agree is a horrible abuse of power.

    2. Pronounce that anyone who might not see the story the way you see it is "an appologist."

    3. Whine that liberals aren't upset enough to please you.

    4. Feed your cats.
    I can't drive without Pearl Jam
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Actually many of the stories I've posted here about this type of abuse has had it's defenders for whatever their reasons. That's one of the reasons why I continue to post such articles. These types of abuses need to be pointed out to show how civilian police forces are turning into military police forces with little to no regard for the most general and basic rights. So really my added commentary was with justification. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you haven't been as active.

    In the meantime the real surprise will be any reply from you to any of my threads that actually discusses the topic.
  • PingfahPingfah Posts: 350
    But you didn't make the thread about the topic, you posted it as a thinly veiled attempt to partake in more partisan bickering. From post one you made it about conservatives vs liberals. You didn't address the issue yourself at all.
  • riotgrlriotgrl Posts: 1,895
    So I agree with your stance that we need to be aware of police abuse of power. I think we are ALL aware that it happens, probably more aware of such incidents in our town. Now what? Everyone seems to have an opinion about how teachers (just an example as I am one and its pretty common to be told how to do it better by others) need to change to make it better, so what can WE do to stop police abuse/corruption? I'm all for awareness but at some point I would like some action so we can FIX the problem. I'm completely open for suggestions.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Posts: 10,219
    You could combine all your gripes and distaste for police into one thread...just a thought.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • g under pg under p Posts: 18,196
    Here's another instance of police at there best....

    http://autos.aol.com/article/texas-poli ... d%3D354951

    I wonder if they do the same body cavity searches for men! :o

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

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  • Prince Of DorknessPrince Of Dorkness Posts: 3,763
    unsung wrote:
    In the meantime the real surprise will be any reply from you to any of my threads that actually discusses the topic.


    And what was the topic of this thread?

    I know you're wanting us to believe that it's about a police thing with a dead dog.

    But what it's REALLY about is "WWHHAAAA!!! THE LIBRULS SUPPORT DOG KILLERS!!!!"

    What this thread is really about is a Ron Paul supporter complaining that liberals are mean because we don't jump when he says so. And therefore the terrorists have won.
    I can't drive without Pearl Jam
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Ever try posting without drama?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    You could combine all your gripes and distaste for police into one thread...just a thought.


    Or they could quit abusing people and I wouldn't post anything about it.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Two words... 'Probable cause'.
    And it is nothing new to law enforcement. The police have used probable cause to arrest suspects and to hide behind probable cause to justify their abuses... for decades.
    ...
    The real difference here is this... it all depends on the citizen's perspective, which, these days, is clouded by our political partisanship. There are some people who will see this very same story and change their opinion on whether it is police work or police abuse, depending upon the political environment. Meaning, opinions would be different is this very same event were done under the Obama term or the Bush term or the Clinton term or the Reagan term.
    The thing today is... we identify more deeply with our political labels (Conservative/Republican, Liberal/Democrat), than we did 10 years ago. It is the non-stop, 24 hour political campaigning we are bombarded with that makes us Republican or Democrat first... American second.
    Then their are the so-called, 'Independents'. Today, those are the ones who are basically partisan that want to distance themselves with the two standing political parties. They really aren't independents anymore, you have the reactionary right of the Tea Party on one side and the radical left of the Green Party on the other. They are the far ends of the defined political spectrum.
    What we need is more of a combination of Conservative Liberals and Liberal Conservatives to form a third party in the middle, not on the extreme ends.
    ...
    Anyway, the basic point I'm trying to make is that this kind of shit has been going on for decades and people weren't saying jack shit about it. If they really did give a shit about it, they would have been speaking up a long time ago.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Earlier, I posted this in the other thread as a response to one of Brian's posts. It fits here:

    I feel badly for police officers. In some people's eyes... they can do no good. For example, in yet another thread (this thread) designed at 'educating the sheep'... officers of the law were called to a case where someone had a bat and machete and people were threatened. A second person of interest who had, according to accounts, wielded a firearm, was identified. At this person's residence, police discover an upside down bucket with a footprint on it leading to an open window. The police try knocking and get no response.

    Dilemma. Suspicion abounds. Decisions to make. An already tense situation has become tenser.

    1. If they drive away and innocent people were inside the home and they are harmed... and the bucket was a clear indicator that an intruder had entered the home through the window... these cops look like idiots and people accuse them of incompetence.

    2. If they enter the home to ensure nobody is being harmed, they run the risk of being accused of violating people's rights.

    Where to error?

    They chose option 2 and, wouldn't you know it... 2 large dogs naturally become aggressive. One dog is killed and another is injured.

    How can they win?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    unsung wrote:
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    You could combine all your gripes and distaste for police into one thread...just a thought.


    Or they could quit abusing people and I wouldn't post anything about it.

    You really think you are making a difference with your posts, dontcha?

    Maybe at the annual 10C awards ceremony we'll give you an award for all the really hard work you are doing in enlightening us of the fact that the US is now a police state and to prepare for all the pending abuse of power and the enslavement of the populace.

    You talk of discussion, but you have never discussed. Anytime anyone makes a legitimate point that is in contrast to your disposition, your strategy is to abandon the thread and create another one- really making this forum messy in the process. As someone earlier said to you... why not have one thread citing police abuse of power?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,096
    unsung wrote:


    Or they could quit abusing people and I wouldn't post anything about it.

    Police abusing power isn't anything new, and likely was worse in the past, although there isn't any way to really measure it. What seems to underlie your threads about it is 'where's the liberal outrage' and the consistent Libertarian theme that our country will destroy itself from the inside in the near future.

    Why not suggest some things/policies police could do to reduce incidents of abuse?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    My liberal comment was directed here and not in general to the nation.

    How to fix? No idea here. I once dated this girl who was a cop, in fact I almost married her. Love is blind, I missed too many red flags. I believe police these days are very insecure with themselves and the badge and gun give them a feeling of power. Unfortunately when that mental attitude is combined with the everlasting need to militarize the local departments it creates situations where they feel untouchable.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    unsung wrote:
    My liberal comment was directed here and not in general to the nation.

    How to fix? No idea here. I once dated this girl who was a cop, in fact I almost married her. Love is blind, I missed too many red flags. I believe police these days are very insecure with themselves and the badge and gun give them a feeling of power. Unfortunately when that mental attitude is combined with the everlasting need to militarize the local departments it creates situations where they feel untouchable.

    I gave you some ideas in one of your other multiple threads. Time put on your listening ears.

    1. Honour the profession by paying these people what they are worth.
    2. Shorten the length of their careers before they receive their pension.

    Then... people might be motivated to enter the profession. As it stands right now... there are several good cops doing what they were born to do; but there are 'others' that are doing the job because they can. In short, the demand is such that departments take any reasonable candidate. Departments should have their choice of candidates. It's that important of a job.

    One thing that is not occurring that you seem to think is: these actions are not small parts of a larger movement to move towards a police state. Instead, these actions are the part of incompetent boobs that do not have the natural disposition to do the job as well as what we would like.

    Of course, my solution would mean taxes to pay for this service and, judging from the rest of your posts... that would invite a 1000 more threads bitching about that.

    How do we win with you, Unsung?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • chadwickchadwick Posts: 21,157
    g under p wrote:
    Here's another instance of police at there best....

    http://autos.aol.com/article/texas-poli ... d%3D354951

    I wonder if they do the same body cavity searches for men! :o

    Peace
    that is the nastiest shit i have ever seen. that woman cop used the same rubber gloves on both women. she is a foul disgrace to the badge she sports & that male cop is a straight asshole
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

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    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    One thing that is not occurring that you seem to think is: these actions are not small parts of a larger movement to move towards a police state. Instead, these actions are the part of incompetent boobs that do not have the natural disposition to do the job as well as what we would like.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you here. It's a systematic problem, from the top on down. The good cops are put into a system that corrupts them or forces them out. The shit stays.

    Act 2 if your interested.
    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... ain-silent


    more info
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Schoolcraft
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    dignin wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    One thing that is not occurring that you seem to think is: these actions are not small parts of a larger movement to move towards a police state. Instead, these actions are the part of incompetent boobs that do not have the natural disposition to do the job as well as what we would like.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you here. It's a systematic problem, from the top on down. The good cops are put into a system that corrupts them or forces them out. The shit stays.

    What you say is certainly a common script of many cop movies.

    While it might be true in some situations, I cannot say that this is the case where I live. Our police have our respect and- outside of a few incidents that are going to happen even in the most perfect system- perform admirably.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    dignin wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    One thing that is not occurring that you seem to think is: these actions are not small parts of a larger movement to move towards a police state. Instead, these actions are the part of incompetent boobs that do not have the natural disposition to do the job as well as what we would like.

    I'm going to have to disagree with you here. It's a systematic problem, from the top on down. The good cops are put into a system that corrupts them or forces them out. The shit stays.

    What you say is certainly a common script of many cop movies.

    While it might be true in some situations, I cannot say that this is the case where I live. Our police have our respect and- outside of a few incidents that are going to happen even in the most perfect system- perform admirably.

    You check out the links?
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    dignin wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    dignin wrote:

    I'm going to have to disagree with you here. It's a systematic problem, from the top on down. The good cops are put into a system that corrupts them or forces them out. The shit stays.

    What you say is certainly a common script of many cop movies.

    While it might be true in some situations, I cannot say that this is the case where I live. Our police have our respect and- outside of a few incidents that are going to happen even in the most perfect system- perform admirably.

    You check out the links?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    I gave you some ideas in one of your other multiple threads. Time put on your listening ears.

    1. Honour the profession by paying these people what they are worth.
    2. Shorten the length of their careers before they receive their pension.

    Then... people might be motivated to enter the profession. As it stands right now... there are several good cops doing what they were born to do; but there are 'others' that are doing the job because they can. In short, the demand is such that departments take any reasonable candidate. Departments should have their choice of candidates. It's that important of a job.

    One thing that is not occurring that you seem to think is: these actions are not small parts of a larger movement to move towards a police state. Instead, these actions are the part of incompetent boobs that do not have the natural disposition to do the job as well as what we would like.

    Of course, my solution would mean taxes to pay for this service and, judging from the rest of your posts... that would invite a 1000 more threads bitching about that.

    How do we win with you, Unsung?

    My ex made $98k last year as a patrol officer. How much more should they be paid? They had, up until about two years ago 100% medical coverage with no money coming out of their pockets. They finally dropped it to 90%, iirc, because the city couldn't justify paying 100% with the downturn in the economy. Sounds like a killer deal to me.

    As far as the pension goes I don't know when their retirement age is, but what does that have to do with treating people with respect and not killing their dogs?

    There are generally hundreds of people applying for officer positions in this city, if not thousands. If they can't get the cream of the crop then people need to be fired.

    I'll disagree about the police state, it is going that way. Federal dollars have small local police departments with SWAT teams and heavy armament.

    We already pay enough taxes, how much more should we pay to get them to treat people with respect?
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    unsung wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    I gave you some ideas in one of your other multiple threads. Time put on your listening ears.

    1. Honour the profession by paying these people what they are worth.
    2. Shorten the length of their careers before they receive their pension.

    Then... people might be motivated to enter the profession. As it stands right now... there are several good cops doing what they were born to do; but there are 'others' that are doing the job because they can. In short, the demand is such that departments take any reasonable candidate. Departments should have their choice of candidates. It's that important of a job.

    One thing that is not occurring that you seem to think is: these actions are not small parts of a larger movement to move towards a police state. Instead, these actions are the part of incompetent boobs that do not have the natural disposition to do the job as well as what we would like.

    Of course, my solution would mean taxes to pay for this service and, judging from the rest of your posts... that would invite a 1000 more threads bitching about that.

    How do we win with you, Unsung?

    My ex made $98k last year as a patrol officer. How much more should they be paid? They had, up until about two years ago 100% medical coverage with no money coming out of their pockets. They finally dropped it to 90%, iirc, because the city couldn't justify paying 100% with the downturn in the economy. Sounds like a killer deal to me.

    As far as the pension goes I don't know when their retirement age is, but what does that have to do with treating people with respect and not killing their dogs?

    There are generally hundreds of people applying for officer positions in this city, if not thousands. If they can't get the cream of the crop then people need to be fired.

    I'll disagree about the police state, it is going that way. Federal dollars have small local police departments with SWAT teams and heavy armament.

    We already pay enough taxes, how much more should we pay to get them to treat people with respect?

    $98,000 with the benefits you describe? I'm calling bullshit. Show me a link that displays such a generous wage and I won't have to call you a liar.

    Here's a link that shows a depressing range of average salaries (obviously starting salaries are pathetically lower to really encourage candidates):
    http://www.indeed.com/salary/Police-Officer.html

    Note this little blurb: Average Police Officer salaries for job postings nationwide are 58% lower than average salaries for all job postings nationwide.

    The early retirement is due to the stress levels of the job. After 20 years of service, it is only human nature to lose patience with the clientele they are forced to deal with on a daily basis.

    1000s all lining up to enlist? Beats McDonalds and other minimum wage jobs I guess, but that doesn't exactly get us the people we want doing the job now does it?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

    I gave you some ideas in one of your other multiple threads. Time put on your listening ears.

    1. Honour the profession by paying these people what they are worth.
    2. Shorten the length of their careers before they receive their pension.

    Then... people might be motivated to enter the profession. As it stands right now... there are several good cops doing what they were born to do; but there are 'others' that are doing the job because they can. In short, the demand is such that departments take any reasonable candidate. Departments should have their choice of candidates. It's that important of a job.

    One thing that is not occurring that you seem to think is: these actions are not small parts of a larger movement to move towards a police state. Instead, these actions are the part of incompetent boobs that do not have the natural disposition to do the job as well as what we would like.

    Of course, my solution would mean taxes to pay for this service and, judging from the rest of your posts... that would invite a 1000 more threads bitching about that.

    How do we win with you, Unsung?

    My ex made $98k last year as a patrol officer. How much more should they be paid? They had, up until about two years ago 100% medical coverage with no money coming out of their pockets. They finally dropped it to 90%, iirc, because the city couldn't justify paying 100% with the downturn in the economy. Sounds like a killer deal to me.

    As far as the pension goes I don't know when their retirement age is, but what does that have to do with treating people with respect and not killing their dogs?

    There are generally hundreds of people applying for officer positions in this city, if not thousands. If they can't get the cream of the crop then people need to be fired.

    I'll disagree about the police state, it is going that way. Federal dollars have small local police departments with SWAT teams and heavy armament.

    We already pay enough taxes, how much more should we pay to get them to treat people with respect?

    $98,000 with the benefits you describe? I'm calling bullshit. Show me a link that displays such a generous wage and I won't have to call you a liar.

    Here's a link that shows a depressing range of average salaries (obviously starting salaries are pathetically lower to really encourage candidates):
    http://www.indeed.com/salary/Police-Officer.html

    Note this little blurb: Average Police Officer salaries for job postings nationwide are 58% lower than average salaries for all job postings nationwide.

    The early retirement is due to the stress levels of the job. After 20 years of service, it is only human nature to lose patience with the clientele they are forced to deal with on a daily basis.

    1000s all lining up to enlist? Beats McDonalds and other minimum wage jobs I guess, but that doesn't exactly get us the people we want doing the job now does it?
    ...
    I was going to say... Unsung's ex-girlfriend is either on the take or shaking down drug dealers and selling the stuff herself. $98,000.00 a years is a lot of money for a beat cop... i can't imagine what a detective is pulling in.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    There's cops and firefighters in this city making over $125k.

    I'll try to find a link and pm it to you, if you don't post it, I'd rather not disclose that level of personal detail on the Internet.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    unsung wrote:
    There's cops and firefighters in this city making over $125k.

    I'll try to find a link and pm it to you, if you don't post it, I'd rather not disclose that level of personal detail on the Internet.

    So I see. I cannot call you a liar- and as much as you sometimes drive me bananas... I'm glad for that.

    Unsung, let's be real about something here: the highest salaries we see are not the norm. There are police captains making $29,000, sergeants making $24,000, and police captains making $32,000.

    Police work is not notoriously known for its lucrative pay scales. To quite the contrary... in the majority of societies, police work is known as service: with low pay, but the opportunity to try and do some good.

    I'm not saying all cops are great. I'm saying most are- we see the exceptions on youtube... not the norm. Cops provide a valuable service and most are good, honest, hard working people with strong values that place themselves at risk for many that, to be frank, are ungrateful.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,055
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    There's cops and firefighters in this city making over $125k.

    I'll try to find a link and pm it to you, if you don't post it, I'd rather not disclose that level of personal detail on the Internet.

    So I see. I cannot call you a liar- and as much as you sometimes drive me bananas... I'm glad for that.

    Unsung, let's be real about something here: the highest salaries we see are not the norm. There are police captains making $29,000, sergeants making $24,000, and police captains making $32,000.

    Police work is not notoriously known for its lucrative pay scales. To quite the contrary... in the majority of societies, police work is known as service: with low pay, but the opportunity to try and do some good.

    I'm not saying all cops are great. I'm saying most are- we see the exceptions on youtube... not the norm. Cops provide a valuable service and most are good, honest, hard working people with strong values that place themselves at risk for many that, to be frank, are ungrateful.


    $125K plus for a city cop? Wow- not in my medium sized town. No where near. OP must live some place rather extravagant. OP also has no interest in hearing or saying anything good about law enforcement. Nothing period.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Really?

    viewtopic.php?f=13&t=210387


    And no, not extravagant at all.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    There's cops and firefighters in this city making over $125k.

    I'll try to find a link and pm it to you, if you don't post it, I'd rather not disclose that level of personal detail on the Internet.

    So I see. I cannot call you a liar- and as much as you sometimes drive me bananas... I'm glad for that.

    Unsung, let's be real about something here: the highest salaries we see are not the norm. There are police captains making $29,000, sergeants making $24,000, and police captains making $32,000.

    Police work is not notoriously known for its lucrative pay scales. To quite the contrary... in the majority of societies, police work is known as service: with low pay, but the opportunity to try and do some good.

    I'm not saying all cops are great. I'm saying most are- we see the exceptions on youtube... not the norm. Cops provide a valuable service and most are good, honest, hard working people with strong values that place themselves at risk for many that, to be frank, are ungrateful.



    I'd really agree with most of what you just said. However when they do step out of line they must be held accountable. We are not their punching bags.
  • Prince Of DorknessPrince Of Dorkness Posts: 3,763
    unsung wrote:
    Ever try posting without drama?

    Ever start a thread that wasn't whiny and passive aggressive?
    I can't drive without Pearl Jam
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    unsung wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    So I see. I cannot call you a liar- and as much as you sometimes drive me bananas... I'm glad for that.

    Unsung, let's be real about something here: the highest salaries we see are not the norm. There are police captains making $29,000, sergeants making $24,000, and police captains making $32,000.

    Police work is not notoriously known for its lucrative pay scales. To quite the contrary... in the majority of societies, police work is known as service: with low pay, but the opportunity to try and do some good.

    I'm not saying all cops are great. I'm saying most are- we see the exceptions on youtube... not the norm. Cops provide a valuable service and most are good, honest, hard working people with strong values that place themselves at risk for many that, to be frank, are ungrateful.



    I'd really agree with most of what you just said. However when they do step out of line they must be held accountable. We are not their punching bags.

    Ok. So... we're not that far apart after all. I think cops that step out of line absolutely need to be held accountable. My suggestions for promoting the profession is to diminish these 'incidents' we frequently hear of: citizens are treated by more appropriate professionals... and our police force is strengthened in character by appealing to character. Win Win.

    Being a cop is a big job that demands a lot from people. I think we have abused some good ones, and some bad ones have abused the system. We can improve this, but there is a cost to it. I think it is worth it.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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