Python Escapes Kills 2 Boys

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Strange and tragic story. Python escapes exotic pet store (Reptile Ocean). Slithers through ventilation system to upstairs apartment and strangles two boys.

http://news.ca.msn.com/local/newbrunswi ... et-store-2

Thirty Bills Unpaid

More news for anyone who is mildly interested- although judging from the massive amount of responses... I could probably let this one go.

The following three cut and pasted excerpts are curious to say the least:

A New Brunswick government official says the type of python that escaped from a Campbellton reptile store over the weekend and is believed to have killed two young brothers is not permitted in the province.

RCMP believe the boys were killed by a large African rock python, which is believed to have escaped from the store and made its way through the ventilation system, into the apartment where the brothers were on a sleepover.

But the New Brunswick SPCA, which, under provincial law licenses all pet stores, also has no record of having licensed Reptile Ocean, officials said.

1. How does a community afford an exotic pet store the opportunity to operate under its nose without having a license to do so?

2. How does a community respond to the fact that this pet store operated without a license and featured animals that are not legal in the province?

3. Is an apartment immediately above an exotic pet store reasonable?

If someone is liable for these deaths, determining negligence on the part of a group or individuals would be a step. Negligence can be described as departing from the conduct expected of a reasonably prudent person acting under certain circumstances.

It looks to me that there are a few factions that didn't exactly act prudently: the pet store, the licensing agencies, and by-laws.

Do all share a portion of the guilt?

Is one more guilty than the others?

Is this just an unfortunate event where nobody is guilty?

Source: http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/snak ... -brunswick

hedonist

You know, all I could do was shake my head at yet another tragic and preventable situation.

I think most (if not all) of the liability lies on the store owner's shoulders for 1) not properly securing the python so that it couldn't escape; 2) having the illegal python the begin with; and 3) the lack of licensing.

Not to be morbid, but I'm curious how long it took for the python to kill two boys. Where was the kid they were visiting?

I'm sure the owner will have much soul-searching - maybe punishment of some kind - in his future, but that poor mother...I simply can't imagine.

know1

This story is odd in many ways....as well as very tragic.

I don't understand why the boys weren't in the same room as the 3rd boy for the sleepover. I also don't understand how it could kill them both without waking them up. I understand they suffocate, but wouldn't there be thrashing, etc.

Also, do Pythons just kill without eating? Wouldn't it have killed and eaten one of them before killing the other?

I know it's morbid, but to my un-python-educated mind, it doesn't really add up.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

know1 wrote:

This story is odd in many ways....as well as very tragic.

I don't understand why the boys weren't in the same room as the 3rd boy for the sleepover. I also don't understand how it could kill them both without waking them up. I understand they suffocate, but wouldn't there be thrashing, etc.

Also, do Pythons just kill without eating? Wouldn't it have killed and eaten one of them before killing the other?

I know it's morbid, but to my un-python-educated mind, it doesn't really add up.

The things you have presented have also crossed my mind.

hedonist

Interesting info here:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... da-snakes/

know1

And how does a 100 pound snake fall through a hole in the ceiling of a room and not wake anyone up?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

hedonist wrote:

Interesting info here:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... da-snakes/

The snake was 14-16 feet long.

This is a huge responsibility (no pun intended).

For a non-licensed exotic pet store to be in possession of it... and the fact that the snake is illegal in the province... this is a story that begs a lot of questions.

Not to mention the odd circumstances that almost bely logic (suggested by Know1).

PJ_Soul

The fact that the community actually had a petition against this place because they felt that it was dangerous and that the animals were not being properly taken care of is a bit shocking (heard that on the news this morning) .... And it could lead to some real legal problems for this guy... and I hope he feels like a real SCHMUCK for ignoring those people's concerns as he gets dealt the most profound "I TOLD YOU SO" of all time. But in the end, laws need to be DRAMATICALLY improved when it comes to animal treatment and ownership in Canada. This story is absolutely tragic, and the parents of those poor kids must be just fucking dying. What a traumatic way to go out. And note to parents: do not let your kids sleep in a place above or adjacent to an exotic reptile store. :?

PJ_Soul

know1 wrote:

And how does a 100 pound snake fall through a hole in the ceiling of a room and not wake anyone up?

I don't think it had to "fall" through. It would have easily been able to get its head to the floor while the back end was still hanging on in the ceiling. It was probably pretty silent (as they tend to be when hunting).

BinauralJam

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

know1 wrote:

This story is odd in many ways....as well as very tragic.

I don't understand why the boys weren't in the same room as the 3rd boy for the sleepover. I also don't understand how it could kill them both without waking them up. I understand they suffocate, but wouldn't there be thrashing, etc.

Also, do Pythons just kill without eating? Wouldn't it have killed and eaten one of them before killing the other?

I know it's morbid, but to my un-python-educated mind, it doesn't really add up.

The things you have presented have also crossed my mind.

I was talking about this on FB and got this reply: Ruth Adkins: Having worked with snakes in the effort to make it a career, large constrictors (and all snakes really) can and will kill and not eat, regurgitate, or not be able to eat.

Somehting about this story didn't really sit right with me, but i guess it's possible.

PJ_Soul

BinauralJam wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

know1 wrote:

This story is odd in many ways....as well as very tragic.

I don't understand why the boys weren't in the same room as the 3rd boy for the sleepover. I also don't understand how it could kill them both without waking them up. I understand they suffocate, but wouldn't there be thrashing, etc.

Also, do Pythons just kill without eating? Wouldn't it have killed and eaten one of them before killing the other?

I know it's morbid, but to my un-python-educated mind, it doesn't really add up.

The things you have presented have also crossed my mind.

I was talking about this on FB and got this reply: Ruth Adkins: Having worked with snakes in the effort to make it a career, large constrictors (and all snakes really) can and will kill and not eat, regurgitate, or not be able to eat.

Somehting about this story didn't really sit right with me, but i guess it's possible.

It was huge. It could have strangled both kids at the same time. It would only take a second to have them tight enough that they couldn't make any noise, and kids often sleep heavily. :(

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul wrote:

The fact that the community actually had a petition against this place because they felt that it was dangerous and that the animals were not being properly taken care of is a bit shocking (heard that on the news this morning) .... And it could lead to some real legal problems for this guy... and I hope he feels like a real SCHMUCK for ignoring those people's concerns as he gets dealt the most profound "I TOLD YOU SO" of all time. But in the end, laws need to be DRAMATICALLY improved when it comes to animal treatment and ownership in Canada. This story is absolutely tragic, and the parents of those poor kids must be just fucking dying. What a traumatic way to go out. And note to parents: do not let your kids sleep in a place above or adjacent to an exotic reptile store. :?

Was the petition before the incident or after the incident?

Note to parents: be damn sure about the people who you let your kids spend the night with. I'm not trying to take away from your point because it is more than legitimate. I'm only saying that there are snakes in human form as well (as we all know).

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

The fact that the community actually had a petition against this place because they felt that it was dangerous and that the animals were not being properly taken care of is a bit shocking (heard that on the news this morning) .... And it could lead to some real legal problems for this guy... and I hope he feels like a real SCHMUCK for ignoring those people's concerns as he gets dealt the most profound "I TOLD YOU SO" of all time. But in the end, laws need to be DRAMATICALLY improved when it comes to animal treatment and ownership in Canada. This story is absolutely tragic, and the parents of those poor kids must be just fucking dying. What a traumatic way to go out. And note to parents: do not let your kids sleep in a place above or adjacent to an exotic reptile store. :?

Was the petition before the incident or after the incident?

Note to parents: be damn sure about the people who you let your kids spend the night with. I'm not trying to take away from your point because it is more than legitimate. I'm only saying that there are snakes in human form as well (as we all know).

The petition was long before the incident. People have been concerned about this place for a long time apparently.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul wrote:

It was huge. It could have strangled both kids at the same time. It would only take a second to have them tight enough that they couldn't make any noise, and kids often sleep heavily. :(

And, with a high degree of certainty, we can assume this is what happened. It likely killed them thinking it would eat them later.

Just so out of the ordinary.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

The fact that the community actually had a petition against this place because they felt that it was dangerous and that the animals were not being properly taken care of is a bit shocking (heard that on the news this morning) .... And it could lead to some real legal problems for this guy... and I hope he feels like a real SCHMUCK for ignoring those people's concerns as he gets dealt the most profound "I TOLD YOU SO" of all time. But in the end, laws need to be DRAMATICALLY improved when it comes to animal treatment and ownership in Canada. This story is absolutely tragic, and the parents of those poor kids must be just fucking dying. What a traumatic way to go out. And note to parents: do not let your kids sleep in a place above or adjacent to an exotic reptile store. :?

Was the petition before the incident or after the incident?

Note to parents: be damn sure about the people who you let your kids spend the night with. I'm not trying to take away from your point because it is more than legitimate. I'm only saying that there are snakes in human form as well (as we all know).

The petition was long before the incident. People have been concerned about this place for a long time apparently.

Then this fact makes this news all the worse.

A petition against a place that wasn't even licensed. Wtf? Who fell asleep at the wheel here?

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Was the petition before the incident or after the incident?

Note to parents: be damn sure about the people who you let your kids spend the night with. I'm not trying to take away from your point because it is more than legitimate. I'm only saying that there are snakes in human form as well (as we all know).

The petition was long before the incident. People have been concerned about this place for a long time apparently.

Then this fact makes this news all the worse.

A petition against a place that wasn't even licensed. Wtf? Who fell asleep at the wheel here?

I believe those who headed the petition (which over 100 people signed) brought it to city council, who obviously did nothing or tabled it or something. :nono: :nono:

KM228407

Does anyone know where the snake went after it/he killed the two boys?

PJ_Soul

KM228407 wrote:

Does anyone know where the snake went after it/he killed the two boys?

I didn't hear, so I assume that means It just lay around in the living room until the dad discovered it all, because they impied on the news reports that he pretty much immediately knew what happened. But I don't actually know.

tybird

The snake may be a red herring. Something just doesn't seem right.

PJ_Soul

tybird wrote:

The snake may be a red herring. Something just doesn't seem right.

It's probably pretty obvious when a child is strangled by a python. I doubt it looks the same to medical examiners or coroners as, say, being strangled or sat on by a person or something.... It's pretty strange the the thing managed to get up into the home like that, but assuming that's true (and that the family didn't decide it would be fun to bring up the python for the sleepover), the rest seems likely enough to me. Stranger things have happened..... Of course, stranger lies have been told to try and cover up murder too, so.... But really, the medical examination/autopsy should be pretty conclusive.

tybird

PJ_Soul wrote:

tybird wrote:

The snake may be a red herring. Something just doesn't seem right.

It's probably pretty obvious when a child is strangled by a python. I doubt it looks the same to medical examiners or coroners as, say, being strangled or sat on by a person or something.... It's pretty strange the the thing managed to get up into the home like that, but assuming that's true (and that the family didn't decide it would be fun to bring up the python for the sleepover), the rest seems likely enough to me. Stranger things have happened..... Of course, stranger lies have been told to try and cover up murder too, so.... But really, the medical examination/autopsy should be pretty conclusive.

One of the things that I have read....admittedly from a pro-snake point of view.....notes atypical behavior on the part of the snake. The results of the autopsy should be interesting.

PJ_Soul

tybird wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

tybird wrote:

The snake may be a red herring. Something just doesn't seem right.

It's probably pretty obvious when a child is strangled by a python. I doubt it looks the same to medical examiners or coroners as, say, being strangled or sat on by a person or something.... It's pretty strange the the thing managed to get up into the home like that, but assuming that's true (and that the family didn't decide it would be fun to bring up the python for the sleepover), the rest seems likely enough to me. Stranger things have happened..... Of course, stranger lies have been told to try and cover up murder too, so.... But really, the medical examination/autopsy should be pretty conclusive.

One of the things that I have read....admittedly from a pro-snake point of view.....notes atypical behavior on the part of the snake. The results of the autopsy should be interesting.

Yes they should.... But yeah, I can see how pro-exotic reptile people would try to defend the snake.... sadly. :fp: They're just like the pitbull people after a pitbull attack.

hedonist

PJ_Soul wrote:

Yes they should.... But yeah, I can see how pro-exotic reptile people would try to defend the snake.... sadly. :fp: They're just like the pitbull people after a pitbull attack.

I LOVE reptiles; they're absolutely beautiful and so resilient - but like any other creature kept/housed, etc., the onus is on the owner to ensure it doesn't harm anyone.

PJ_Soul

hedonist wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Yes they should.... But yeah, I can see how pro-exotic reptile people would try to defend the snake.... sadly. :fp: They're just like the pitbull people after a pitbull attack.

I LOVE reptiles; they're absolutely beautiful and so resilient - but like any other creature kept/housed, etc., the onus is on the owner to ensure it doesn't harm anyone.

I am fine with reptiles.... a 17 foot python, on the other hand, not so much. That is not at all an appropriate animal to have in a small enclosure in a store or in any residence or near children, even if the owner did ensure that it doesn't escape. It's more akin to keeping a lion or something.... The owner can be as careful as possible. The Lion still shouldn't be there, because it's cruel to the animal, and dangerous because shit happens.

hedonist

PJ_Soul wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I LOVE reptiles; they're absolutely beautiful and so resilient - but like any other creature kept/housed, etc., the onus is on the owner to ensure it doesn't harm anyone.

I am fine with reptiles.... a 17 foot python, on the other hand, not so much. That is not at all an appropriate animal to have in a small enclosure in a store or in any residence or near children, even if the owner did ensure that it doesn't escape. It's more akin to keeping a lion or something.... The owner can be as careful as possible. The Lion still shouldn't be there, because it's cruel to the animal, and dangerous because shit happens.

Good point.

chadwick

how does a (cold) ventilation duct attract a snake? this is the part about the story that drives me nuts

thesewordselope

Apparently the kids were at a petting zoo that night and they think the snake may have followed the scent of the animals...

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2013 ... 26771.html

PJ_Soul

chadwick wrote:

how does a (cold) ventilation duct attract a snake? this is the part about the story that drives me nuts

How the snake got up there is definitely surprising ... or a lie. I definitely wonder if the guy wasn't keeping the thing in the apartment. But who knows. Maybe the snake heard the kids, smelled/tasted them, etc? Don't know about snakes enough to assume much.

PJ_Soul

thesewordselope wrote:

Apparently the kids were at a petting zoo that night and they think the snake may have followed the scent of the animals...

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2013 ... 26771.html

Sounds feasible.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

An interesting theory about a potential 'cover up' (the suggestion where the snake may have been kept in the apartment all along instead of its cage). I have a hard time picturing the snake rearing itself upwards through an open vent and dropping down from the ceiling after making its way through it. I'm not necessarily saying the theory presented is one I'm buying... I'm just saying this case is a stinky one that might not be exactly as it is being presented.

All speculation aside... why have a 15 foot python for a pet? I don't get it.