Mandela

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

This board has become painfully predictable. Painfully might not be the right word- comically might be a better word.

The critics of Obama and ardent right wing advocates think Nelson Mandela is of questionable character.

Say no more.

no man is perfect, Thirty. I mean, Mandela cheated on his first wife SEVERAL times. so his character isn't unquestionable. no man's is.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

dignin wrote:

There is a whitewashing of the mans past in the media right now.

this is nothing new. happens with all the political greats when they die.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

This board has become painfully predictable. Painfully might not be the right word- comically might be a better word.

The critics of Obama and ardent right wing advocates think Nelson Mandela is of questionable character.

Say no more.

no man is perfect, Thirty. I mean, Mandela cheated on his first wife SEVERAL times. so his character isn't unquestionable. no man's is.

Agreed.

But in my estimation... this man's greatness far exceeds his indiscretions. I wasn't saying he was perfect, but I am saying we can do without throwing darts at him in the wake of his death.

dignin

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

This board has become painfully predictable. Painfully might not be the right word- comically might be a better word.

The critics of Obama and ardent right wing advocates think Nelson Mandela is of questionable character.

Say no more.

no man is perfect, Thirty. I mean, Mandela cheated on his first wife SEVERAL times. so his character isn't unquestionable. no man's is.

Agreed.

But in my estimation... this man's greatness far exceeds his indiscretions. I wasn't saying he was perfect, but I am saying we can do without throwing darts at him in the wake of his death.

To be fair to unsung, he did post that before his death.

Pingfah

I don't think that his past stances detract from his ultimate achievement, which was the emancipation of South Africa without a violent revolution.

People can snipe at things he said and did before that all they want, but it doesn't change what he did accomplish, which is one of the greatest achievements in modern history.

BinFrog

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

This board has become painfully predictable. Painfully might not be the right word- comically might be a better word.

The critics of Obama and ardent right wing advocates think Nelson Mandela is of questionable character.

Say no more.

no man is perfect, Thirty. I mean, Mandela cheated on his first wife SEVERAL times. so his character isn't unquestionable. no man's is.

Agreed.

But in my estimation... this man's greatness far exceeds his indiscretions. I wasn't saying he was perfect, but I am saying we can do without throwing darts at him in the wake of his death.

Same can be said of MLK

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dignin wrote:

To be fair to unsung, he did post that before his death.

This was not noted by myself and certainly does change the context of the implication.

With this said... there still is an implication and to be honest... I'm not exactly sure what it is?

dignin

Pingfah wrote:

I don't think that his past stances detract from his ultimate achievement, which was the emancipation of South Africa without a violent revolution.

People can snipe at things he said and did before that all they want, but it doesn't change what he did accomplish, which is one of the greatest achievements in modern history.

I agree 100%

dignin

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

dignin wrote:

To be fair to unsung, he did post that before his death.

This was not noted by myself and certainly does change the context of the implication.

With this said... there still is an implication and to be honest... I'm not exactly sure what it is?

I don't know what he was trying to get at.

Mandela was not saint, there is a lot of evidence pointing to his willingness go the violent way of revolution before his arrest. Very understandable given the circumstances.

What makes him so special obviously was what he did after he was released from prison. That takes a unique person with an amazing amount of character. If you believe in such a thing.....saintly.

VivaPalestina

Pingfah wrote:

I don't think that his past stances detract from his ultimate achievement, which was the emancipation of South Africa without a violent revolution.

People can snipe at things he said and did before that all they want, but it doesn't change what he did accomplish, which is one of the greatest achievements in modern history.

Very true. Let the good things he did be an inspiration. Rest in Peace Mandela.

josevolution

Cliffy6745 wrote:

At almost midnight on the east coast in the US, I am about to go to sleep knowing full well that I will wake up to Nelson Mandela being dead. I truly hope the world understands what this man meant to our planet and he gets the respect he deserves. In my 30 years, I can think of no one else who deserves the respect he does.

Thank you, for standing up to what's right. Thank you for showing courage in the face of a massive majority and thank you for showing this cold world what dignity and respect means.

This is literally the first person aside from my old man that I will shed a tear for. Thank you. America can certainly take a lesson from your courage.

josevolution

Jason P wrote:

95 years is a damn good run. Granted some of those were in the clinker, but still it is as much time as any of us should hope for.

95 is a good ripe old age but i for one would rather live to 70 then having to endure what this man had to for 27 yrs of encarceration with the conditions he had to put up with , no bathroom of any kind no bed no electricity on &on ... he had more courage in hi's thumb than i have in my whole body ....... RIP

backseatLover12

I find it interesting the people who, upon the man's death (for that matter, ANY man or woman's death), see the good in which he has done vs those who see only the bad that he's done. It says a lot about a person.

BinFrog

backseatLover12 wrote:

I find it interesting the people who, upon the man's death (for that matter, ANY man or woman's death), see the good in which he has done vs those who see only the bad that he's done. It says a lot about a person.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Some people just can't help themselves.

Byrnzie

He was fighting a liberation struggle. Show me one liberation struggle that didn't involve violence.

And who initiated the violence? The blacks, fighting for their freedom, dignity, and in many cases, their lives? Or the racist whites?

Funny how Mandela is feted the World over, while Arafat was quietly brushed under the carpet. If the U.S hadn't prevented the Palestinians liberation struggle from being successful, then maybe Arafat would have been accorded the same treatment. Not that Reagan didn't do everything in his power to protect and support the South African Apartheid regime too.

Funny old World we live in.

brianlux

Maya Angelou's really fine poem tribute to Mandela can be seen here:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... on-mandela

Hugh Freaking Dillon

BinFrog wrote:

backseatLover12 wrote:

I find it interesting the people who, upon the man's death (for that matter, ANY man or woman's death), see the good in which he has done vs those who see only the bad that he's done. It says a lot about a person.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Some people just can't help themselves.

who is talking about the bad? all anyone has mentioned is that the man is not a saint. he was an unbelievable human being, but NO ONE is a saint.

Last-12-Exit

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

unsung wrote:

I don't really profess to know the history of him but when he was arrested wasn't he stockpiling over 200,000 grenades and land mines?

I have been told he was asked to renounce violence but refused to do so.

if true, wouldn't that make him a hero of yours?

This board has become painfully predictable. Painfully might not be the right word- comically might be a better word.

The critics of Obama and ardent right wing advocates think Nelson Mandela is of questionable character.

Say no more.

I agree. Its a mandella tribute. The rest is borderline trolling.

Cosmo

unsung wrote:

Well it's in the Rivonia trial transcripts...

Also

"The extent to which the National High Command plotted their policy of sabotage...can be gauged from their ‘production requirements’— a program which they planned to complete in six months. These requirements, as the documents prove, included 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminium powder, and 15 tons of black powder. Without taking into account the explosives and detonators which the members of the sabotage squads throughout the country were enjoined by their leaders to steal from explosives magazines and various mines, the experts will say that the aforementioned ‘production requirements’ constituted sufficient to blow up a town as extensive as Johannesburg...."

Mandela states, " I do not, however, deny that I planned sabotage. I did not plan it in a spirit of recklessness, nor because I have any love of violence. I planned it as a result of a calm and sober assessment of the political situation that had arisen after many years of tyranny, exploitation, and oppression of my people by the Whites."

...
My take...
In a system that employed unrestrained racial prejudice for the better part of 2 1/5 centuries... I'm guessing that their established system of Law and Order was probably slated in one favor of one group over the other.
What do you think?

dignin

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

BinFrog wrote:

backseatLover12 wrote:

I find it interesting the people who, upon the man's death (for that matter, ANY man or woman's death), see the good in which he has done vs those who see only the bad that he's done. It says a lot about a person.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Some people just can't help themselves.

who is talking about the bad? all anyone has mentioned is that the man is not a saint. he was an unbelievable human being, but NO ONE is a saint.

Exactly, the mans whole story is important.