I love how people think the drummer alone changed the sound of the band. The band itself was much different back then. They had more energy and more emotion to their songs than they do now (in the live setting).
While they certainly have different styles, I'm fairly certain that if Matt started and stayed with the band over the 22 years, we would STILL hear that evolution of sound and tempo.
I honestly feel the band itself wants Matt to play how he does. Matt is almost an entirely different drummer when playing in Soundgarden. I think PJ really holds him back...which is too bad because I'd like to see him more involved during live performances.
If they never got rid of Dave A, we never would have had the phenomenal drumming of Jack Irons on No Code and Yield. Also, I think Matt handles the material that pre-dates him well, and without him the band probably wouldn't have made it this long. The band has had Matt as a drummer for a majority of its existence and he helped keep them going at a time they might have folded all together. While people complain about the time between album releases/tours now, there might be nothing to complain about at all if not for him which is too often overlooked :thumbup:
I must be in the minority but I think jacks drumming was so generic and predictable. I feel Matt's drumming is being held back. He could do so much more but dnt know why he holds back. As for Dave A, he'll always be my favorite drummer we had. His sound was so loud and fast yet clean. Just imagine what pearl jams sound could've been if he was still drumming.....
I don't think the drumming on tracks like "Who You Are," "In My Tree," and even though it's a slower number, "Low Light," sound generic or predictable at all, and they really show the kind of sound he brought to the band. I'm not discrediting Dave's drumming at all, I just don't think he had as much of an influence on their music that Matt has. His drumming sound is very distinct and all over the early live stuff and Vs/Vitalogy, I just don't believe they'd sound any better if he was still in the band.
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I love how people think the drummer alone changed the sound of the band. The band itself was much different back then. They had more energy and more emotion to their songs than they do now (in the live setting).
While they certainly have different styles, I'm fairly certain that if Matt started and stayed with the band over the 22 years, we would STILL hear that evolution of sound and tempo.
I honestly feel the band itself wants Matt to play how he does. Matt is almost an entirely different drummer when playing in Soundgarden. I think PJ really holds him back...which is too bad because I'd like to see him more involved during live performances.
Not the drummer alone but it's not a coincidence that you can pretty easily see the dividing line.
Dave A was the perfect drummer for the early explosive years. Tight with great groove and I think that has alot to do with the early stuff that rocked but also had a kinda funky element to it.
Jack was the perfect drummer for the more experimental years. Kinda sloppy, but I think precision is something that's sacrificed accross the board when you try to push yourself creatively.
Matt's the perfect drummer for transitioning from the experimental stuff back to a more basic approach.
Matt clearly has to change his style to adapt to each band, but I don't think it's all that different. It's more that his drumming within the SG framework comes off as much more interesting. It's all about precision and that can be a detriment to the flow.
Matt clearly has to change his style to adapt to each band, but I don't think it's all that different. It's more that his drumming within the SG framework comes off as much more interesting. It's all about precision and that can be a detriment to the flow.
But that's the point. The framework of PJ has changed. There is no question in my mind that Matt could have brought the same energy that Dave did back then (with less cymbal). The last few PJ albums have been very straight-forward. The time signatures have been simple and concise. You're average rock drummer could have been swapped in for most of those songs during their recording and nobody would have noticed much. The same can't be said for SG. There are so many crazy time signatures and he's waaaaay more free to a) let it go and b) improvise a bit (live). I think that's what the band (probably mostly Ed) wants. In the Dave years, they had only what 15-20 songs they'd play. They played the shit out of those songs, extended and experimented more to fill a 1.5-2 hour show. Now, they are more or less going through the motions and trying to fit in 30 songs a show of their lineup of 100+. There is no passion, no uniqueness to most songs anymore...and I certainly can't blame the drummer for that.
I mean, what really could Dave do to "Love Boat Captain", "Evacuation", "Cropduster", "Help Help", "Parachutes"...well, you get the point.
Interestingly, when Matt first joined PJ during that '98 tour, he also played live songs a whole lot different than he does now. Pretty sure the powers that be wanted it a certain way...and here we are.
What has this great and powerful Dave A done since PJ?
Nuff said
If he was such a great drummer he would have done a few things in the last 20 years.
One band member gets replaced in 20+ yrs.....can you imagine if PJ was like the others selling you a watered down version of PJ
PJ gets crucified here for the dumbest shit ever
Just because someone doesn't have commercial success or wants to pull back doesn't mean he's untalented.
Dave from most accounts wanted the spotlight, he doesnt seem like the shy type to me. I dont think he's untalented, just Not that Keith Moon-esque drummer he's made out to be here. Like PJ isnt kickass without him.He got canned from his job....just like millions of people each year. I hope Dave has moved on, more than his sympathizers here have. I hope their arent any Pumpkins, Aerosmith, Foo Fighters, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Zeppelin, Ramones, Clash, Oasis etc etc fans trying to hammer home the point Dave should still be the drummer......Cause that would be silly and naive.
I guess these are the discussions when the band isnt cranking out music and shows :roll:
With regards to comparing Matt's work in Pearl Jam and Soundgarden it's pointless - they are completely different bands. I love Soundgarden but I don't want Pearl Jam to sound like them.
I got into Pearl Jam in 1999 so I've only known Matt as the drummer and maybe that's why he is my favourite drummer in Pearl Jam with Jack Irons 2nd. Dave doesn't really do anything for me, obviously love the albums he was on but there's too much cymbals for me on the live stuff like Vault #1. That said, I always love listening out for his drumsticks rattling the wall at the end of RVM!!
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All I know is this: When i talk to drummers and pearl jam comes up in the conversation, Dave A gets mentioned ALL THE TIME by the drummers. Mainly about how powerful his drumming was.
I love how people think the drummer alone changed the sound of the band. The band itself was much different back then. They had more energy and more emotion to their songs than they do now (in the live setting).
While they certainly have different styles, I'm fairly certain that if Matt started and stayed with the band over the 22 years, we would STILL hear that evolution of sound and tempo.
I honestly feel the band itself wants Matt to play how he does. Matt is almost an entirely different drummer when playing in Soundgarden. I think PJ really holds him back...which is too bad because I'd like to see him more involved during live performances.
Not the drummer alone but it's not a coincidence that you can pretty easily see the dividing line.
Dave A was the perfect drummer for the early explosive years. Tight with great groove and I think that has alot to do with the early stuff that rocked but also had a kinda funky element to it.
Jack was the perfect drummer for the more experimental years. Kinda sloppy, but I think precision is something that's sacrificed accross the board when you try to push yourself creatively.
Matt's the perfect drummer for transitioning from the experimental stuff back to a more basic approach.
Matt clearly has to change his style to adapt to each band, but I don't think it's all that different. It's more that his drumming within the SG framework comes off as much more interesting. It's all about precision and that can be a detriment to the flow.
Great post mate! I only came on on-board as a real fan in 2000...I have listened back to a few bootlegs from the Jack and Dave years, and there is no doubt the band sounds the best with Matt, in concert that is. (especially 2000-2006) - He brought the perfect blend of power and precision to the songs.
I don't think you can blame him for the generic drumming on the recent albums - The songs on the whole since he joined the band have been 'Alright' at best. There have been some great, great songs but on the whole we have had to put up with stuff like Gone, Help Help, Love Boat Captain, Speed of Sound, Gonna See My Friend, Comatose...None of those (and plenty others) would of got close to getting on any of the First 5 albums...Filler in other words!
Infact I think Cameron has brought some of the most interesting songs on the recent albums, discounting Evacuation ofcourse! Fixer, You Are, Unemployable for instance.
Dave A. was a great rock drummer. He had that whole classic rock drum thing going - powerful backbeat, lots of crashing symbols. I always thought that his classic, 70s drum sound is what made PJ appeal to so many as, basically, the classic rock influence in what was more of a punk-influenced alternative scene. As they got more experimental, Irons and Cameron became more cruical because of their slightly jazzier style. Rhythm changes and all that. I always felt that Matt Cameron was the cruical piece to PJ becoming the band that focused on a superior live show. All great live bands are anchored by a great drummer. He's like the catcher for a winning baseball team. When MC came on board, PJ took what had been a really good live show and made it an amazing live show, even if they'd lost some of that tradtional RAWK sound that Dave A. brought. I am not a musician, but those are my two cents.
Lots of cymbals....love the driving force behind Dave A.
This. I love Matt Cameron. But have and always will favor Dave A's sound.
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Coming from a drummer....I much prefer Dave A's drumming. Matt is talented but one thing he does with PJ that annoys me is plays some live parts way too fast.
For example, in RVM when the band come back in from the jam in the middle and Ed starts singing "Saw things"...it is always played too fast these days. Certain songs lose the groove because of Matt not controlling tempo.
Coming from a drummer....I much prefer Dave A's drumming. Matt is talented but one thing he does with PJ that annoys me is plays some live parts way too fast.
For example, in RVM when the band come back in from the jam in the middle and Ed starts singing "Saw things"...it is always played too fast these days. Certain songs lose the groove because of Matt not controlling tempo.
This is wholeheartedly agree with. Matt can be way too fast which changes the dynamic of a song. Even flow used to be a whole lot groovier with Dave at the kit; it now travels at a million miles an hour. His cymbal work was brilliant.
Still love Matt C, he's an amazing drummer but Dave A will always be my fav.
What has this great and powerful Dave A done since PJ?
Nuff said
Oh please...no member of PJ has done much outside the band...at least not much that's relevant. Even EV's solo stuff is mediocre at best. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE IT...but that's because myself and most everyone else here is nuts for anything related to this band.
No doubt Dave A. was probably devastated at being fired the way he was, but watching his Hard To Imagine video you can tell he looks back on those times with great fondness. The outro to that song was probably a perfect fit as to how he feels about the situation, so I can see why he used it.
I don't want to lessen Matt's contributions because he is an awesome drummer and I am very happy he is in Pearl Jam right now, but Dave's drum sound with PJ was incredibly powerful and hard hitting.
Dave had a little more flair and I have seen some people give him flack for that but I personally feel it really helped push the music
Even EV's solo stuff is mediocre at best. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE IT...but that's because myself and most everyone else here is nuts for anything related to this band.
I can agree on the Ukelele album.
But EVERYONE loves the Into the wild soundtrack. So it's not just "crazy PJ fans". That is truly one magic album.
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Fine then My Turn for an Opinion lol...I like Matt the Best...The one thing that Irritates me about Dave A is the AMOUNT of Cymbals He used and Overplayed a bit...it was Ok on Songs like "Porch" but Cringe Worthy on Songs like "Even Flow" which Matt is Spot on with...:)
I always loved Dave A as well. I think his drumming style just fit the early music perfectly. if you go back and listen to old boots or watch old videos, the whole band sounded much more aggressive and in your face, and i think Dave A was a big part of that. also, as a group, i think they were angrier back then, and that intensity transfers over into your performance. i am not knocking anybody, not the band, and especially not matt, but to listen to today's boots, i think the shows come off as more of a celebration, whereas in my opinion, the older shows came off as a young, hungry band making a statement with their performances. maybe i am nostalgic for the old days, but when given the option of picking any of the boots i have to listen to, i always go for the old ones with Dave.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
if the situation were reversed, and Matt had started and got fired and Dave A was the current drummer, everyone would be discussing the what-if's of Matt.
it's all nostalgia. nothing more.
dave brought a great sound to VS and Vitalogy, and to the live Ten shows. I can't imagine what the hell he would have brought to No Code or Yield. I also can't imagine Matt playing on No Code or Ten.
and dave actually wrote some great songs. Remember Angel? I fucking love that song!
what's funny to me is that people fell in love with Pearl Jam when Ten was released, but no mention of Dave Krusen and his awesome drumming on their best album ever.
Let's be honest. Comparing today's pearl jam to the pearl jam of 1995, regardless of drummer, is the same to me as comparing pearl jam to mother love bone to green river to malfunkshun. completely different bands/sounds/songs/dynamics.
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Dave however, brought an energy to the music they have never had since he left. I am okay with a little sloppiness, or whatever the drummer bitch about when they rip DA's drumming. He was just fun to watch.
All I know is all 3 were fucking amazing to see live
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While they certainly have different styles, I'm fairly certain that if Matt started and stayed with the band over the 22 years, we would STILL hear that evolution of sound and tempo.
I honestly feel the band itself wants Matt to play how he does. Matt is almost an entirely different drummer when playing in Soundgarden. I think PJ really holds him back...which is too bad because I'd like to see him more involved during live performances.
I don't think the drumming on tracks like "Who You Are," "In My Tree," and even though it's a slower number, "Low Light," sound generic or predictable at all, and they really show the kind of sound he brought to the band. I'm not discrediting Dave's drumming at all, I just don't think he had as much of an influence on their music that Matt has. His drumming sound is very distinct and all over the early live stuff and Vs/Vitalogy, I just don't believe they'd sound any better if he was still in the band.
Continental Arena I - 6/1/2006
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Not the drummer alone but it's not a coincidence that you can pretty easily see the dividing line.
Dave A was the perfect drummer for the early explosive years. Tight with great groove and I think that has alot to do with the early stuff that rocked but also had a kinda funky element to it.
Jack was the perfect drummer for the more experimental years. Kinda sloppy, but I think precision is something that's sacrificed accross the board when you try to push yourself creatively.
Matt's the perfect drummer for transitioning from the experimental stuff back to a more basic approach.
Matt clearly has to change his style to adapt to each band, but I don't think it's all that different. It's more that his drumming within the SG framework comes off as much more interesting. It's all about precision and that can be a detriment to the flow.
But that's the point. The framework of PJ has changed. There is no question in my mind that Matt could have brought the same energy that Dave did back then (with less cymbal). The last few PJ albums have been very straight-forward. The time signatures have been simple and concise. You're average rock drummer could have been swapped in for most of those songs during their recording and nobody would have noticed much. The same can't be said for SG. There are so many crazy time signatures and he's waaaaay more free to a) let it go and b) improvise a bit (live). I think that's what the band (probably mostly Ed) wants. In the Dave years, they had only what 15-20 songs they'd play. They played the shit out of those songs, extended and experimented more to fill a 1.5-2 hour show. Now, they are more or less going through the motions and trying to fit in 30 songs a show of their lineup of 100+. There is no passion, no uniqueness to most songs anymore...and I certainly can't blame the drummer for that.
I mean, what really could Dave do to "Love Boat Captain", "Evacuation", "Cropduster", "Help Help", "Parachutes"...well, you get the point.
Interestingly, when Matt first joined PJ during that '98 tour, he also played live songs a whole lot different than he does now. Pretty sure the powers that be wanted it a certain way...and here we are.
His style isn't my favorite, though... too much cymbal....
Just because someone doesn't have commercial success or wants to pull back doesn't mean he's untalented.
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Dave from most accounts wanted the spotlight, he doesnt seem like the shy type to me. I dont think he's untalented, just Not that Keith Moon-esque drummer he's made out to be here. Like PJ isnt kickass without him.He got canned from his job....just like millions of people each year. I hope Dave has moved on, more than his sympathizers here have. I hope their arent any Pumpkins, Aerosmith, Foo Fighters, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Zeppelin, Ramones, Clash, Oasis etc etc fans trying to hammer home the point Dave should still be the drummer......Cause that would be silly and naive.
I guess these are the discussions when the band isnt cranking out music and shows :roll:
Just watch from the 5:45 mark. Pretty f-ing awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npb2uGsEr8c
I got into Pearl Jam in 1999 so I've only known Matt as the drummer and maybe that's why he is my favourite drummer in Pearl Jam with Jack Irons 2nd. Dave doesn't really do anything for me, obviously love the albums he was on but there's too much cymbals for me on the live stuff like Vault #1. That said, I always love listening out for his drumsticks rattling the wall at the end of RVM!!
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Great post mate! I only came on on-board as a real fan in 2000...I have listened back to a few bootlegs from the Jack and Dave years, and there is no doubt the band sounds the best with Matt, in concert that is. (especially 2000-2006) - He brought the perfect blend of power and precision to the songs.
I don't think you can blame him for the generic drumming on the recent albums - The songs on the whole since he joined the band have been 'Alright' at best. There have been some great, great songs but on the whole we have had to put up with stuff like Gone, Help Help, Love Boat Captain, Speed of Sound, Gonna See My Friend, Comatose...None of those (and plenty others) would of got close to getting on any of the First 5 albums...Filler in other words!
Infact I think Cameron has brought some of the most interesting songs on the recent albums, discounting Evacuation ofcourse! Fixer, You Are, Unemployable for instance.
This. I love Matt Cameron. But have and always will favor Dave A's sound.
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1998 Brisbane 2
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For example, in RVM when the band come back in from the jam in the middle and Ed starts singing "Saw things"...it is always played too fast these days. Certain songs lose the groove because of Matt not controlling tempo.
This is wholeheartedly agree with. Matt can be way too fast which changes the dynamic of a song. Even flow used to be a whole lot groovier with Dave at the kit; it now travels at a million miles an hour. His cymbal work was brilliant.
Still love Matt C, he's an amazing drummer but Dave A will always be my fav.
Give me Go over Evacuation any day
Oh please...no member of PJ has done much outside the band...at least not much that's relevant. Even EV's solo stuff is mediocre at best. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE IT...but that's because myself and most everyone else here is nuts for anything related to this band.
No doubt Dave A. was probably devastated at being fired the way he was, but watching his Hard To Imagine video you can tell he looks back on those times with great fondness. The outro to that song was probably a perfect fit as to how he feels about the situation, so I can see why he used it.
Matt is a rock in a stormy sea
Dave had a little more flair and I have seen some people give him flack for that but I personally feel it really helped push the music
But EVERYONE loves the Into the wild soundtrack. So it's not just "crazy PJ fans". That is truly one magic album.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
it's all nostalgia. nothing more.
dave brought a great sound to VS and Vitalogy, and to the live Ten shows. I can't imagine what the hell he would have brought to No Code or Yield. I also can't imagine Matt playing on No Code or Ten.
and dave actually wrote some great songs. Remember Angel? I fucking love that song!
what's funny to me is that people fell in love with Pearl Jam when Ten was released, but no mention of Dave Krusen and his awesome drumming on their best album ever.
Let's be honest. Comparing today's pearl jam to the pearl jam of 1995, regardless of drummer, is the same to me as comparing pearl jam to mother love bone to green river to malfunkshun. completely different bands/sounds/songs/dynamics.
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I love Jackie even more
Dave however, brought an energy to the music they have never had since he left. I am okay with a little sloppiness, or whatever the drummer bitch about when they rip DA's drumming. He was just fun to watch.
All I know is all 3 were fucking amazing to see live