Adam Kokesh arrested

unsung · May 2013

Kokesh was arrested tonight at a marijuana "smoke-in" and is being held without charges in a federal detention facility. When he was taken against his will he was mc-ing the event and encouraging others to stand up for their rights. He was not pushing for violence or was he in possession of marijuana at the time.

Pretty scary that someone can be simply taken away for no reason. In the arrest footage he is clearly seen standing when the police tried to tackle him.

His politics aside this should not be accepted.

Free · May 2013

Along the same lines, but nothing to do with Kokesh,

http://www.newson6.com/story/22236012/t ... protesters
TransCanada Sues To Stop Oklahoma Keystone Pipeline Protesters

....."This lawsuit is a part of a broader corporate campaign of criminalizing dissent and delegitimizing opposition to this dangerous project, similar to Exxon's deliberate exclusion of press which amounted to a media blackout at the site of the Pegasus pipeline rupture, which released 5,000 barrels of diluted bitumen into residential Mayflower, Arkansas..."

unsung · May 2013

He's being charged with resisting arrest, but that's not an arrestable offense.

unsung · May 2013

Word is he will be charged with assault on a federal officer, the video shows that he was the one assaulted.

mikepegg44 · May 2013

unsung wrote:

Word is he will be charged with assault on a federal officer, the video shows that he was the one assaulted.

not surprising that Kokesh would get railroaded at some point.

unsung · May 2013

He has a detention hearing set for Thursday, the reason is that he won't answer if he owns firearms or not.

These people make me sick. What's happening to this country?

vant0037 · May 2013

unsung wrote:

He's being charged with resisting arrest, but that's not an arrestable offense.

Read that again to yourself.

mikepegg44 · May 2013

vant0037 wrote:

unsung wrote:

He's being charged with resisting arrest, but that's not an arrestable offense.

Read that again to yourself.

this is a legitimate question, how can that be the only thing someone is charged with?

also, I love conspiracies as much as the next person, but this is a pretty interesting break down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDTmIwqcqmE

the wolf · May 2013

unsung wrote:

He has a detention hearing set for Thursday, the reason is that he won't answer if he owns firearms or not.

These people make me sick. What's happening to this country?

Who makes you sick? They guy who fought for our country but now opposes our involvement in Iraq, or the bastards that are railroading him?

vant0037 · May 2013

mikepegg44 wrote:

this is a legitimate question, how can that be the only thing someone is charged with?

There might be probable cause for a different charge (required to arrest), and during the course of that arrest, he resists (according to an officer) and is then arrested on that charge. A prosecutor might look at the facts, according to the officer, and go with his/her strongest set of facts. In other words, a prosecutor may review reports from a given officer which say "I attempted to arrest individual X for selling drugs. During the arrest, individual X resisted by repeatedly pulling away from me." The prosecutor may then review both possible charges and decide that the selling drugs charge isn't as strong for any number of reasons. The resisting arrest charge could very likely be the strongest case because the State's prime witness then becomes a police officer rather than a citizen witness. Boom, you've got a lone charge of resisting arrest.

Believe it or not, there are good prosecutors who do their jobs and review cases as they come in, rather than just rubber-stamping complaints against people.

Coincidentally, that's why I find conspiracies along the lines of 1960s COINTELPRO (which were quite common then and resulted in arrests just like this) to be unlikely today. That's not to say people aren't targeted and arrested any more, but the federal government has different ways of getting you today (i.e. the IRS

).

mikepegg44 · May 2013

vant0037 wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

this is a legitimate question, how can that be the only thing someone is charged with?

There might be probable cause for a different charge (required to arrest), and during the course of that arrest, he resists (according to an officer) and is then arrested on that charge. A prosecutor might look at the facts, according to the officer, and go with his/her strongest set of facts. In other words, a prosecutor may review reports from a given officer which say "I attempted to arrest individual X for selling drugs. During the arrest, individual X resisted by repeatedly pulling away from me." The prosecutor may then review both possible charges and decide that the selling drugs charge isn't as strong for any number of reasons. The resisting arrest charge could very likely be the strongest case because the State's prime witness then becomes a police officer rather than a citizen witness. Boom, you've got a lone charge of resisting arrest.

Believe it or not, there are good prosecutors who do their jobs and review cases as they come in, rather than just rubber-stamping complaints against people. Coincidentally, that's why I find conspiracies along the lines of 1960s COINTELPRO (which were quite common then and resulted in arrests just like this) to be unlikely today. That's not to say people aren't targeted and arrested any more, but the federal government has different ways of getting you today (i.e. the IRS ).

thanks, I always assumed that if the charges you were originally arrested for were dropped the odds are, depending on the severity of resistance, those would be dropped as well.

vant0037 · May 2013

mikepegg44 wrote:

thanks, I always assumed that if the charges you were originally arrested for were dropped the odds are, depending on the severity of resistance, those would be dropped as well.

Could be. That's certainly within a prosecutor's discretion.

I just think it's worth noting that you can be arrested, charged and convicted solely for resisting arrest. I'm reading a lot of the comments under the news stories about his arrest (shame on me - I know) and it's befuddling the misinformation that these people are spouting.

unsung · May 2013

If a cop tries tackling me for no reason other than I'm speaking into a microphone (peacefully and without inciting violence) and I defend myself then how exactly is that resisting arrest? Police don't have the right to assault someone that is not committing a crime.

unsung · May 2013

the wolf wrote:

unsung wrote:

He has a detention hearing set for Thursday, the reason is that he won't answer if he owns firearms or not.

These people make me sick. What's happening to this country?

Who makes you sick? They guy who fought for our country but now opposes our involvment in Iraq, or the bastards that are reailroading him?

The ones "railroading" him.

vant0037 · May 2013

unsung wrote:

If a cop tries tackling me for no reason other than I'm speaking into a microphone (peacefully and without inciting violence) and I defend myself then how exactly is that resisting arrest? Police don't have the right to assault someone that is not committing a crime.

I'm not debating whether he actually was resisting arrest. I'm telling you you're wrong when you say it's not an "arrestable offense." There's marked misinformation surrounding many of these "conspiracy" stories. I'm doing my part to help out.

Cosmo · May 2013

Slight off center here... but, is it legal to post (distribute) blueprints for gun parts... if those parts are owned by the manufacturer... even if you are not selling them?

vant0037 · May 2013

Cosmo wrote:

Slight off center here... but, is it legal to post (distribute) blueprints for gun parts... if those parts are owned by the manufacturer... even if you are not selling them?

Is this a post for Lost Dogs?

Cosmo · May 2013

vant0037 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Slight off center here... but, is it legal to post (distribute) blueprints for gun parts... if those parts are owned by the manufacturer... even if you are not selling them?

Is this a post for Lost Dogs?

...
No.
I just know that Kokesh was distributing blueprints for guns on his website that were free for the taking. With those prints and a 3-D printer, you could make plastic parts to manufacturing specs. You'd probably want to mate them with acutal gun parts, such as the barrel, but you could make yourself a gun and bypass the whole gun buying process and thus, the requirement for any sort of background check.
I'm just wondering if those source documents are patented or copyrighted.

vant0037 · May 2013

Cosmo wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Slight off center here... but, is it legal to post (distribute) blueprints for gun parts... if those parts are owned by the manufacturer... even if you are not selling them?

Is this a post for Lost Dogs?

...
No.
I just know that Kokesh was distributing blueprints for guns on his website that were free for the taking. With those prints and a 3-D printer, you could make plastic parts to manufacturing specs. You'd probably want to mate them with acutal gun parts, such as the barrel, but you could make yourself a gun and bypass the whole gun buying process and thus, the requirement for any sort of background check.
I'm just wondering if those source documents are patented or copyrighted.

I'm not a copyright attorney, but my sense is there may be some issues with that. I won't speculate because I don't know.

unsung · May 2013

vant0037 wrote:

unsung wrote:

If a cop tries tackling me for no reason other than I'm speaking into a microphone (peacefully and without inciting violence) and I defend myself then how exactly is that resisting arrest? Police don't have the right to assault someone that is not committing a crime.

I'm not debating whether he actually was resisting arrest. I'm telling you you're wrong when you say it's not an "arrestable offense." There's marked misinformation surrounding many of these "conspiracy" stories. I'm doing my part to help out.

I just not see how one can be arrested solely based on resisting arrest. I can see how the charge would be in addition to the actual charge that he would have been arrested for. If I'm standing on a sidewalk minding my own business, not harming anyone, and a cop tries to tackle me are you telling me that I can't defend myself?

Cosmo · May 2013

unsung wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

unsung wrote:

If a cop tries tackling me for no reason other than I'm speaking into a microphone (peacefully and without inciting violence) and I defend myself then how exactly is that resisting arrest? Police don't have the right to assault someone that is not committing a crime.

I'm not debating whether he actually was resisting arrest. I'm telling you you're wrong when you say it's not an "arrestable offense." There's marked misinformation surrounding many of these "conspiracy" stories. I'm doing my part to help out.

I just do not see how one can be arrested solely based on resisting arrest. I can see how the charge would be in addition to the actual charge that he would have been arrested for. If I'm standing on a sidewalk minding my own business, not harming anyone, and a cop tries to tackle me are you telling me that I can't defend myself?

...
You CAN... but, I wouldn't.
Me: Megaphone
Him: Nightstick... Taser... GUN... and a badge to shield himself.
He wins. I would lawyer up.

vant0037 · May 2013

unsung wrote:

I just not see how one can be arrested solely based on resisting arrest. I can see how the charge would be in addition to the actual charge that he would have been arrested for. If I'm standing on a sidewalk minding my own business, not harming anyone, and a cop tries to tackle me are you telling me that I can't defend myself?

I'm not saying that at all.

If an officer has probable cause to arrest you for a specific crime, and you resist that arrest, you can be charged with that crime AND the crime of resisting arrest (assuming resisting arrest is a crime in that given jurisdiction). That does NOT mean you WILL be charged for both crimes. A prosecutor, in his or her discretion, might decide that the underlying charge, for which the officer was going to arrest you, is not appropriate, supported by the evidence etc, and instead might decide to proceed with the charge of resisting arrest alone. Many prosecutors do not go forward, as another poster suggested, but many do, and that depends on the facts of the case, the prosecutor etc.

Now, does that mean there was another charge in this case that the officer was arresting this guy on? I have no clue, and neither do you. But that's what conspiracy theories are for, right?

I am telling you simply that it is a fact that you can be charged and arrested for resisting arrest, without necessarily facing charges on another crime. That explanation might not fit into a conspiracy theory, but it's a fact. Whether or not Mr. Kokesh is guilty of that charge is a question for the courts.

the wolf · May 2013

unsung wrote:

the wolf wrote:

unsung wrote:

He has a detention hearing set for Thursday, the reason is that he won't answer if he owns firearms or not.

These people make me sick. What's happening to this country?

Who makes you sick? They guy who fought for our country but now opposes our involvment in Iraq, or the bastards that are railroading him?

The ones "railroading" him.

That's what I thought, just making sure.

I agree it is pretty disgusting. Sad really.

unsung · May 2013

vant0037 wrote:

unsung wrote:

I just not see how one can be arrested solely based on resisting arrest. I can see how the charge would be in addition to the actual charge that he would have been arrested for. If I'm standing on a sidewalk minding my own business, not harming anyone, and a cop tries to tackle me are you telling me that I can't defend myself?

I'm not saying that at all.

If an officer has probable cause to arrest you for a specific crime, and you resist that arrest, you can be charged with that crime AND the crime of resisting arrest (assuming resisting arrest is a crime in that given jurisdiction). That does NOT mean you WILL be charged for both crimes. A prosecutor, in his or her discretion, might decide that the underlying charge, for which the officer was going to arrest you, is not appropriate, supported by the evidence etc, and instead might decide to proceed with the charge of resisting arrest alone. Many prosecutors do not go forward, as another poster suggested, but many do, and that depends on the facts of the case, the prosecutor etc.

Now, does that mean there was another charge in this case that the officer was arresting this guy on? I have no clue, and neither do you. But that's what conspiracy theories are for, right?

I am telling you simply that it is a fact that you can be charged and arrested for resisting arrest, without necessarily facing charges on another crime. That explanation might not fit into a conspiracy theory, but it's a fact. Whether or not Mr. Kokesh is guilty of that charge is a question for the courts.

That's my point. I want to know what the probable cause was. Resisting arrest is not probable cause, there has to be an arrest attempt for the resist part to happen. I want to know what had happened that the police felt the need to arrest him.

Jason P · May 2013

unsung wrote:

If a cop tries tackling me for no reason other than I'm speaking into a microphone (peacefully and without inciting violence) and I defend myself then how exactly is that resisting arrest? Police don't have the right to assault someone that is not committing a crime.

I saw that happen to a friend of mine in high school. If a cop grabs you and all you do is try to turn around and try to figure out what is going on, they can beat the shit out of you for resisting arrest.

:x

That's why whenever a famous person makes the news for resisting arrest, I always give that person the benefit of doubt.

puremagic · May 2013

unsung wrote:

If a cop tries tackling me for no reason other than I'm speaking into a microphone (peacefully and without inciting violence) and I defend myself then how exactly is that resisting arrest? Police don't have the right to assault someone that is not committing a crime.

Wow, are you out of touch. You can be charged with resisting arrest for ‘talking back’ to an officer. Depending on your tone and gesters, you can be shot/tased because an officer can say that they feared for their life.

vant0037 · May 2013

unsung wrote:

That's my point. I want to know what the probable cause was. Resisting arrest is not probable cause, there has to be an arrest attempt for the resist part to happen. I want to know what had happened that the police felt the need to arrest him.

If you're asking me if I know what the probable cause for the arrest on another charge was, I don't know. Neither do you. Very few people do, besides that cop and perhaps a prosecutor who will make charging decisions. That's why its pretty ridiculous to start speculating that there was no probable cause and that this is an unjustified arrest...especially given Mr. Kokesh's recent history. You might look at that recent history and say it's precisely why he was "targeted." Where's the evidence that he was targeted then? Others might look at that recent history and speculate that perhaps there was something legitimate the cops wanted him on. Drugs maybe? I don't know.

You made an incorrect statement about the law; I corrected you on it. I'm not here to argue about whether the arrest was justified or what the facts are. I'm merely pointing out that if you don't know the law, don't argue it incorrectly as support for a conspiracy theory you can't prove.

unsung · May 2013

I'm not supporting any conspiracy theory, so really please drop that.

I have said that you need probable cause to arrest someone and in order to actually resist arrest some action has to have taken place in order to resist.

My entire point was that you can't resist arrest if no arrest was taking place, therefore that can't be the initiating arrestable offense.

Or are you going to tell me I'm wrong again and supporting some wild conspiracy theory?

the wolf · May 2013

unsung wrote:

I'm not supporting any conspiracy theory, so really please drop that.

I have said that you need probable cause to arrest someone and in order to actually resist arrest some action has to have taken place in order to resist.

My entire point was that you can't resist arrest if no arrest was taking place, therefore that can't be the initiating arrestable offense.

Or are you going to tell me I'm wrong again and supporting some wild conspiracy theory?

I agree with you. The initial charge can't be "resisting arrest". That's not even possible.

unsung · May 2013

puremagic wrote:

unsung wrote:

If a cop tries tackling me for no reason other than I'm speaking into a microphone (peacefully and without inciting violence) and I defend myself then how exactly is that resisting arrest? Police don't have the right to assault someone that is not committing a crime.

Wow, are you out of touch. You can be charged with resisting arrest for ‘talking back’ to an officer. Depending on your tone and gesters, you can be shot/tased because an officer can say that they feared for their life.

Ok, I'll not bite yet. I don't fear police. They work for me. I fear the power that they let go to their heads. Most cops I know never got invited to parties in high school so now they have to let their insecurities take over and get their power trips because of the gun and badge.

Oops, I bit.

Free · May 2013

the wolf wrote:

unsung wrote:

I'm not supporting any conspiracy theory, so really please drop that.

I have said that you need probable cause to arrest someone and in order to actually resist arrest some action has to have taken place in order to resist.

My entire point was that you can't resist arrest if no arrest was taking place, therefore that can't be the initiating arrestable offense.

Or are you going to tell me I'm wrong again and supporting some wild conspiracy theory?

I agree with you. The initial charge can't be "resisting arrest". That's not even possible.

The cops have so much power, they're above the law. Don't we all know this?

Adam Kokesh arrested

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