Glenn Greenwald Owns Bill Maher

PJ_Soul

kenny olav wrote:

I don't think Bill Maher is always on point, but I don't think he's wrong to say that Islam is currently creating more problems than other religions.

And Muslims certainly don't have the moral high ground over Israel. You'd be much better off growing up in Tel Aviv than in Riyadh or Tehran, particularly if you were born female.

But ultimately, all humans are savage beasts and we don't need religion to act out our savage impulses. Religion just helps create a supposedly righteous cause for the ways in which we oppress each other.

+1
But I think the argument of "you think my religion is bad? What about YOUR religion?" argument is weak. It's a two wrongs make a right argument. Not good!

Jason P

Jeanwah wrote:

Look at how Chris McCandless ended up...

His death could have easily been avoided if he learned basic survival skills. Heading into the Alaska bush w/ a .22 rifle and a sack of rice is insanity.

JimmyV

Byrnzie wrote:

cp3iverson wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Not just religions. Are they any more brainwashed than the rest of us?

I mean, we think we're free, yet we have to set alarm clocks to get up every day to do jobs that most of us hate, doing things for other people. And we are constantly being told what we can and cannot do.

So what's the difference?

I love my job. Love waking up in the morning for it. I guess i'm free.....or a happy brainwashed person.

Does spending a lifetime collecting stuff we don't need constitute freedom? I'm not so sure. The bottom line is, we're indoctrinated from an early age to live the lives we do. I don't see much difference in that than for people in any other part of the modern World, religious or not.
In the West we're told to buy stuff and work 40 hours a week. In the Middle East people are told to pray to Allah five times a day.

Whether we need stuff or not, we spend our lives collecting stuff we want. We are free to collect as much or as little as we want. It is each individual's choice and they are free to make it on their own.

cp3iverson

Jason P wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Look at how Chris McCandless ended up...

His death could have easily been avoided if he learned basic survival skills. Heading into the Alaska bush w/ a .22 rifle and a sack of rice is insanity.

Yeah had he not been so immature or naive he could still be there today.

Byrnzie

JimmyV wrote:

Whether we need stuff or not, we spend our lives collecting stuff we want. We are free to collect as much or as little as we want. It is each individual's choice and they are free to make it on their own.

Tell that to the advertising agencies that spend billions every year on trying to convince us to buy their shit. You must know something they don't.

JimmyV

Byrnzie wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Whether we need stuff or not, we spend our lives collecting stuff we want. We are free to collect as much or as little as we want. It is each individual's choice and they are free to make it on their own.

Tell that to the advertising agencies that spend billions every year on trying to convince us to buy their shit. You must know something they don't.

Tell what to them? They are trying to sell their products. I decide which, if any, I choose to buy. The choice is mine. If it wasn't I would be buying Taco Bell everyday.

PJ_Soul

cp3iverson wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Look at how Chris McCandless ended up...

His death could have easily been avoided if he learned basic survival skills. Heading into the Alaska bush w/ a .22 rifle and a sack of rice is insanity.

Yeah had he not been so immature or naive he could still be there today.

I agree. I was better prepared when I went camping for a week in the backcountry. I can appreciate why he went and everything - that he wanted to do that is admirable. But he was stupid not to be better prepared, and what I really don't admire is that he refused to contact his family, just once, to simply let them know he was a live (until he wasn't). A postcard with nothing but his signature at least. I know he had issues with the folks, but they didn't beat him or sexually abuse him, and they loved him. The least he could have done is not torture them by simply disappearing. That is why I am not an admirer of McCandless.

.... now what are we talking about again?? Oh, right. Maher loses a fight...... kind of but not really. IMO they both lost. Arguing for any religion, especially in the he said she said, comparative kind of way, is a pointless endeavor. They're ALL wrong! .... But Bill does have a point. It is the Muslim religion that is wreaking havoc right now, and the one that is currently suppressing women to a high degree. I don't give a flying fuck what the Christians or anyone else used to do, or what some cult also does if we're talking about the wrongs of Islam (radical and otherwise). That makes no difference. Islam is a growing religion that is definitely presently maintaining and giving rise to many disturbing problems in the world. That is undeniable, and talking about past Christian atrosities or the hypocrisies in today's Catholic Church, etc etc doesn't change that fact (but i'm happy to discuss how warped other religions are in another thread). I wish all religion could be wiped away completely.

PJ_Soul

JimmyV wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Whether we need stuff or not, we spend our lives collecting stuff we want. We are free to collect as much or as little as we want. It is each individual's choice and they are free to make it on their own.

Tell that to the advertising agencies that spend billions every year on trying to convince us to buy their shit. You must know something they don't.

Tell what to them? They are trying to sell their products. I decide which, if any, I choose to buy. The choice is mine. If it wasn't I would be buying Taco Bell everyday.

Yeah, Kraft keeps on trying to force me to buy Cheez Whiz.... it's been a really tough battle, but so far I've been able to fight them off and not purchase a jar of the Whiz. But I'm not sure how much longer I can hold out; they are a formidable foe. :P

kenny olav

Byrnzie wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

I don't think Bill Maher is always on point, but I don't think he's wrong to say that Islam is currently creating more problems than other religions.

And Muslims certainly don't have the moral high ground over Israel. You'd be much better off growing up in Tel Aviv than in Riyadh or Tehran, particularly if you were born female.

But ultimately, all humans are savage beasts and we don't need religion to act out our savage impulses. Religion just helps create a supposedly righteous cause for the ways in which we oppress each other.

What Muslim country has been occupying and subjugating another country for the past 60 years?

When was the last time Iran attacked anyone?

You think Muslim women feel themselves to be oppressed? If Islam is so tyrannical then why do 28.73 % of the Worlds population subscribe to it? You think Muslims follow that religion because they're forced to, or do they adhere to it out of choice?

Muslim leaders subjugate their own people, and they've created a centuries old culture of subjugation. Those who grow up in that culture may not even realize they've been subjugated even when they reach old age.

I was raised Christian and from an early age, I couldn't wrap my brain around it... I read about other religions in encyclopedias and wondered why there were so many... none of them made any sense to me... and as teenager I decided that I didn't believe it any religion, however, to this day, I have had to pretend to be Christian when I'm among my family in order to keep the peace. Thankfully, I'm not being forced to live a religious life by the society around me.

Admittedly, I've never visited a Muslim society. I would like to. It would be interesting to visit and not to be patronizing... but to really understand how they live... but I'm sure I would not want to live as they do. I don't want to subjugate myself to an imaginary god and a book of 7th century customs.

There's no doubt that we in the West are economically oppressed. Most of us are underpaid and live under a mountain of debt that we have to pay back with interest. Public and private debt in America alone totals at 55 trillion dollars!!

Ironically, there is a religious solution to our debt crisis - the Jubilee year. I would also agree that usury should be banned, as I believe it is in Islam. But I don't want to replace the tyranny of money with the tyranny of the mind that is religion.

Byrnzie

kenny olav wrote:

Muslim leaders subjugate their own people, and they've created a centuries old culture of subjugation. Those who grow up in that culture may not even realize they've been subjugated even when they reach old age.

That's a bit of a generalization. You even admitted yourself in the next breath that you know nothing about the Muslim culture.
I wonder if we in the West - who regard ourselves as so free and independent - could even consider for one second that we've been indoctrinated into accepting an unsustainable, and essentially destructive and absurd way of life, which teaches us that spending a lifetime collecting shit we don't need is the sole purpose of our existence on this Earth? No, of course not. We're all free to choose the lives we want, right? We feel no constraints by the mighty $$ whatsoever, and we go to work for somebody else every day because we want to, and because some of us love it.

In the meantime, 77% of Americans regard themselves as Christians - a religion that teaches Original Sin, that the fires of Hell await all unbelievers, and the Earth is ours to Plunder as we see fit.

Strange, but those who grow up in that culture may not even realize they've been subjugated even when they reach old age.

VivaPalestina

kenny olav wrote:

I don't think Bill Maher is always on point, but I don't think he's wrong to say that Islam is currently creating more problems than other religions.

And Muslims certainly don't have the moral high ground over Israel. You'd be much better off growing up in Tel Aviv than in Riyadh or Tehran, particularly if you were born female.

But ultimately, all humans are savage beasts and we don't need religion to act out our savage impulses. Religion just helps create a supposedly righteous cause for the ways in which we oppress each other.

Really, Tel Aviv? Recent articles in haaretz have had men hurling rocks at women at the western wall, that is jewish men hurling rocks at jewish women. Also, women in Jerusalem get attacked the orthodox jews there if they show so much as an ankle. Women get spat on and threatened. If you are an African Jew you get forcibly sterilized.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/li ... m-1.523231

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/is ... m-1.496519

For Muslim and Christians living in the OPT and israel, as can be imagined are treated worse. Children are arrested and raped with various objects.... Israel has to be the worst offender for human rights anywhere. Moral ground? Hah...not a foot to stand on. Tel Aviv, a bastion for feminism and human rights...what a joke. You should go live there, great place. Hope you are not black or a woman or Muslim or Christian, other than that, great place.

Bentleyspop

VivaPalestina wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

I don't think Bill Maher is always on point, but I don't think he's wrong to say that Islam is currently creating more problems than other religions.

And Muslims certainly don't have the moral high ground over Israel. You'd be much better off growing up in Tel Aviv than in Riyadh or Tehran, particularly if you were born female.

But ultimately, all humans are savage beasts and we don't need religion to act out our savage impulses. Religion just helps create a supposedly righteous cause for the ways in which we oppress each other.

Really, Tel Aviv? Recent articles in haaretz have had men hurling rocks at women at the western wall, that is jewish men hurling rocks at jewish women. Also, women in Jerusalem get attacked the orthodox jews there if they show so much as an ankle. Women get spat on and threatened. If you are an African Jew you get forcibly sterilized.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/li ... m-1.523231

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/is ... m-1.496519

For Muslim and Christians living in the OPT and israel, as can be imagined are treated worse. Children are arrested and raped with various objects.... Israel has to be the worst offender for human rights anywhere. Moral ground? Hah...not a foot to stand on. Tel Aviv, a bastion for feminism and human rights...what a joke. You should go live there, great place. Hope you are not black or a woman or Muslim or Christian, other than that, great place.

salaam alaikum......

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327187,00.html
Two months into an arranged marriage, Fozia Sadiq, a young Pakistani immigrant, found herself trapped in the suburbs of Dallas, Texas, with a violent husband.She says he routinely beat her and intimidated her into never going anywhere in public without him.

http://www.iqrasense.com/muslim-character/muslim-women-and-cases-of-domestic-abuse.html
A recent article in the New York Times highlighted domestic violence and other social issues faced by Muslim sisters in the US.
Unfortunately, such domestic abuse issues are quite common in Muslim households. The domestic issues that Muslim women face worldwide include husbands striking their wives (even when they are pregnant), family violence through marital discord, suicide, depression, humiliation, and other emotional illnesses that result from such treatment, and much more.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/the-muslim-brotherhoods-treatment-of-women-reveals-its-agenda-for-egypt/article10052979/
On Saturday in Cairo, a young Egyptian female activist, Mervat Moussa, was slapped to the ground by a member of the ruling Muslim Brotherhood. Her only crime was demonstrating in front of the Brotherhood’s main headquarters

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=98
Throughout the Muslim world, women are treated as second-class citizens who are inferior to men in terms of intelligence, morals, and faith. This arrangement derives from the Qur'an itself, which states unambiguously: “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other” (Qur'an 4:34).

VivaPalestina

Your post does not refute a single word I wrote, as a matter of fact, if you look further into some of the links you provided, ( try scrolling down) you would find Islamic praise of women.

Anyway, not to derail Byrnzie's thread any further, I think Glenn Greenwald did an amazing job with another troll, Bill Maher. I love a lot of what he says in his articles, his twitter, his interviews, etc.

satansbed

Byrnzie wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

Muslim leaders subjugate their own people, and they've created a centuries old culture of subjugation. Those who grow up in that culture may not even realize they've been subjugated even when they reach old age.

That's a bit of a generalization. You even admitted yourself in the next breath that you know nothing about the Muslim culture.
I wonder if we in the West - who regard ourselves as so free and independent - could even consider for one second that we've been indoctrinated into accepting an unsustainable, and essentially destructive and absurd way of life, which teaches us that spending a lifetime collecting shit we don't need is the sole purpose of our existence on this Earth? No, of course not. We're all free to choose the lives we want, right? We feel no constraints by the mighty $$ whatsoever, and we go to work for somebody else every day because we want to, and because some of us love it.

In the meantime, 77% of Americans regard themselves as Christians - a religion that teaches Original Sin, that the fires of Hell await all unbelievers, and the Earth is ours to Plunder as we see fit.

Strange, but those who grow up in that culture may not even realize they've been subjugated even when they reach old age.

We are human, and as such it s inherent wevare selfish. This selfishness exists all over the world. It's not inherently a bad thing either. It's what leads to innovation and progress. I for one would prefer to live nw than anytime in the past

kenny olav

Byrnzie wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

Muslim leaders subjugate their own people, and they've created a centuries old culture of subjugation. Those who grow up in that culture may not even realize they've been subjugated even when they reach old age.

That's a bit of a generalization. You even admitted yourself in the next breath that you know nothing about the Muslim culture.
I wonder if we in the West - who regard ourselves as so free and independent - could even consider for one second that we've been indoctrinated into accepting an unsustainable, and essentially destructive and absurd way of life, which teaches us that spending a lifetime collecting shit we don't need is the sole purpose of our existence on this Earth? No, of course not. We're all free to choose the lives we want, right? We feel no constraints by the mighty $$ whatsoever, and we go to work for somebody else every day because we want to, and because some of us love it.

In the meantime, 77% of Americans regard themselves as Christians - a religion that teaches Original Sin, that the fires of Hell await all unbelievers, and the Earth is ours to Plunder as we see fit.

Strange, but those who grow up in that culture may not even realize they've been subjugated even when they reach old age.

I didn't say I know nothing about the culture... only that I have no firsthand experience in it (though I wish I did and hope I will)... some in my family have been to Egypt and Turkey... I have studied the culture pretty well... I think it's fair to say I know much more about it than the average Westerner.

And I completely agree with your condemnations of Western culture.

kenny olav

VivaPalestina wrote:

kenny olav wrote:

I don't think Bill Maher is always on point, but I don't think he's wrong to say that Islam is currently creating more problems than other religions.

And Muslims certainly don't have the moral high ground over Israel. You'd be much better off growing up in Tel Aviv than in Riyadh or Tehran, particularly if you were born female.

But ultimately, all humans are savage beasts and we don't need religion to act out our savage impulses. Religion just helps create a supposedly righteous cause for the ways in which we oppress each other.

Really, Tel Aviv? Recent articles in haaretz have had men hurling rocks at women at the western wall, that is jewish men hurling rocks at jewish women. Also, women in Jerusalem get attacked the orthodox jews there if they show so much as an ankle. Women get spat on and threatened. If you are an African Jew you get forcibly sterilized.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/li ... m-1.523231

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/is ... m-1.496519

For Muslim and Christians living in the OPT and israel, as can be imagined are treated worse. Children are arrested and raped with various objects.... Israel has to be the worst offender for human rights anywhere. Moral ground? Hah...not a foot to stand on. Tel Aviv, a bastion for feminism and human rights...what a joke. You should go live there, great place. Hope you are not black or a woman or Muslim or Christian, other than that, great place.

Well, I respect Haaretz and what they report is assuredly true. But I'm also sure Haaretz would report more frequently about such abuses if they were reporting from Riyadh or Tehran or from a Taliban-occupied city.

And there is no doubt that Palestinians are being horribly oppressed by Israel. Israelis are reacting to the violence of Muslims against innocents. Religion inspired all of this horrible oppression and violence.

My city of Boston was living peacefully until two Muslims decided to ruin it.

Jason P

Byrnzie wrote:

In the meantime, 77% of Americans regard themselves as Christians - a religion that teaches Original Sin, that the fires of Hell await all unbelievers, and the Earth is ours to Plunder as we see fit.

Strange, but those who grow up in that culture may not even realize they've been subjugated even when they reach old age.

I consider myself Christian and go to church once, maybe twice a year.

No way in hell I'm getting up at 4 am to say a prayer. Only thing I get up at 4 am is if the tornado sirens are going off.

Idris

Bill Maher talking Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl66zh_RzSA

Byrnzie

JimmyV wrote:

Whether we need stuff or not, we spend our lives collecting stuff we want. We are free to collect as much or as little as we want. It is each individual's choice and they are free to make it on their own.

http://www.nirandfar.com/2013/05/think- ... again.html

'...Consider the famous Pepsi Challenge, which researchers have recreated in the lab on several occasions. Studies reveal that when people are asked to do a blind taste test of Coke versus Pepsi they split equally, showing little measurable preference. However, if people are asked to evaluate the drinks knowing the brand name, they disproportionately prefer Coke.

But here’s where the research gets interesting. When a study compared preference for Coke to an unidentified cola, Coke was overwhelmingly chosen. However, unbeknownst to the taster, sometimes the other cola was not just some drink, it too was Coke. Despite tasting two identical drinks, the Coke brand affected the flavor of the sample. MRI scans of the testers brains confirmed they had actually experienced the two drinks differently.

Similar effects have been observed with other factors, which should not objectively affect taste. For example, wine you believe is expensive really does taste better. After all, isn’t expensive wine supposed to taste better? It better if you just shelled out an ungodly sum on a bottle. Here again, the brain’s ability to perceive the world the way it expects it to be kicks into high gear.

Just as the expectation of a placebo’s effect informs how we perceive physical symptoms, associations create connections between things, which may or may not be related. Marketers create these associations to ensure consumers choose their products out of habit, as well as enjoy them more once they do.'

JimmyV

Byrnzie wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Whether we need stuff or not, we spend our lives collecting stuff we want. We are free to collect as much or as little as we want. It is each individual's choice and they are free to make it on their own.

http://www.nirandfar.com/2013/05/think- ... again.html

'...Consider the famous Pepsi Challenge, which researchers have recreated in the lab on several occasions. Studies reveal that when people are asked to do a blind taste test of Coke versus Pepsi they split equally, showing little measurable preference. However, if people are asked to evaluate the drinks knowing the brand name, they disproportionately prefer Coke.

But here’s where the research gets interesting. When a study compared preference for Coke to an unidentified cola, Coke was overwhelmingly chosen. However, unbeknownst to the taster, sometimes the other cola was not just some drink, it too was Coke. Despite tasting two identical drinks, the Coke brand affected the flavor of the sample. MRI scans of the testers brains confirmed they had actually experienced the two drinks differently.

Similar effects have been observed with other factors, which should not objectively affect taste. For example, wine you believe is expensive really does taste better. After all, isn’t expensive wine supposed to taste better? It better if you just shelled out an ungodly sum on a bottle. Here again, the brain’s ability to perceive the world the way it expects it to be kicks into high gear.

Just as the expectation of a placebo’s effect informs how we perceive physical symptoms, associations create connections between things, which may or may not be related. Marketers create these associations to ensure consumers choose their products out of habit, as well as enjoy them more once they do.'

I don't think it is a surprise that people often choose products they are familiar and comfortable with. Especially in a taste test where both choices are the same but only one is labeled.

As I said, we are all free to make our own choices.